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Oct 27, 2017
11,512
Bandung Indonesia
Trigger warnings: depression, suicide, suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, rape, detailing of wounds.

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I had hoped to make this post sooner but was unable to. This rips through me, feels incredibly close to home and heartbreaking. I'm not sure how much I'll share but some of this stuff is only known by singular people in my personal life, but it could be important for members here right now. It might be rambling in parts but hopefully some might relate to elements of it.

I'll start by echoing a post of mine in an Etika thread before this:

Which sounds harsh, but hopefully everyone can now understand the severity with which we're talking. There should be no tolerance for it, it's disgusting and it costs lives.

I have been both the person suffering, and have tried to help others who suffer.

If you're any age and can relate to Etika's last video, general desperation or find yourself apart from the world drifting – it gets better. It can, it will, it does.

I wish I could show you how far down the well I was, so you understood the tears with which this ink is mixed. I've been to the top of multi-story car parks and stood on the edge, I've sat under trees in the forest crying wondering which I might hang from soon. Every week I drive over a bridge well-known for suicides and every time I do there's still a glint within me that asks if the world would be better if I did. I don't think it ever leaves you, but now I have a list of things that pop up when I think that, reasons to stay alive. Some days that list is shorter than others, but it's always there now and a number of those items are strong enough to where I don't have to worry any more. Which is why it is so important to me that you understand that it can get better, because there were many times where I didn't have that list in the road until now.

During my time at secondary school (ages 11-16) I was both sexually abused at the start, and I was bullied on a daily basis for close to four of the years. My offense was that I was born with ginger hair and needed glasses. Mix that with being pretty shy and coming off the back of everything sexual abuse brings, and I was a prime vector of attack. We're talking being spat on, kicked between the legs, pushed down flights of metal stairs, poled on the bus, punched, kicked, whatever. Every day of school, for years. Several occasions I was threatened with knives. Nothing happened to the bullies because "boys will be boys" and because it wasn't racially motivated.

So I grew up with an irreconcilable level of self-hatred, shame, guilt and a strong perception that the issue was me. After all, I was being broken on a daily basis purely for features of my body I was unable to change. It wasn't immediate, it wasn't overnight but with time that settled and it settled deep. I became an incredible liar and – as with many people suffering from depression – managed to perfect the wearing of masks. Every day I went home and smiled at my parents, said all was fine before going upstairs and breaking down into the pillows. Occasionally I couldn't make it to the bedroom before that, and my parents would see a crack of what was happening. I'd summarily dismiss it as being solely whatever had managed to escape at the time, before going upstairs and wondering how I could get a gun in the UK to put to my head.

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Trigger warnings: depression, suicide, suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, rape, detailing of wounds.
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Which is another thing: suicide isn't taken seriously until it's committed to.

Unsuccessful suicide attempts are well known as being disregarded as attention seeking (for which I'll let the irony escape for now) but there's a further subset to where if you've only considered it but taken no action toward it then you really aren't being serious. Which needs to be challenged. Thinking of ending your own life isn't a simple one. People might want to die but few want to die in agony. This is about not living, not dying itself. If you jump from a bridge you risk tearing your body apart but surviving and living life crippled with zero ability. Pills are simple but seem horrific in their action except when coupled with alcohol, but again – you read too many stories about people surviving and coming too in the hospital having fucked their organs. A jump off of a tall building seems like the best way to go but the duration of the fall means you could regret it and be unable to reverse the decision, the same is true of hanging and bleeding out. A gun seems like the easy solution but then how do you find out how to do it well, because if you botch that then you're back with the above. Trains are the immediate solution but then you're impacting another, random, person with your already-waste-of-space life. I have spent a lot of time considering these things in the past.

This is what suicidal thoughts entertain, and it turns out that the human body is quite resilient. That dying is scary even when suicidal and that it's not a case of walking into the local supermarket and picking up the cheapest "erase me" kit. If you're not taking suicidal thoughts seriously before they become actions, then you need to change your mentality. There is no bar that people have to hit before they're "actually suicidal", and any of those barriers could crumble if a signfiicant additional blow is dealt to them in life.

Depression is your mind working against you

Why didn't they seek help? Why did they refuse help? Why did they just push people away that were trying to help? All of these show a massive ignorance towards what depression is like, and that's ok. We need to educate people, and mental illness is a conversation that has long been taboo. So ignorance is expected, but you have to be able to put aside your affront and recognise it's nothing compared to the inner turmoil the person is going through. Depression isn't logical and trying to approach it like it is won't help. When someone can't conceive their own self worth it's near impossible to believe that others can. Depression is your mind telling you that you deserve to feel this way. Depression is your mind telling you that help can only ever be temporary because you're the problem. Depression is your mind telling you to jump, because it's the only way to ensure nothing continues. It is your mind doubting every solution and labouring every negative, it is you telling you to kill yourself. It is the insidious trickery that forces you to live under that weight.

Thankfully I learned to break from it, and you can too. Councilling helps. Talking to people complete disconnected from your life helps.

When I was 16 I placed a bet with my friend at the time for £10 that I wouldn't live until 30. I couldn't see it. I was scraping by day by day purely for others and I couldn't conceive of a happy life so far into the future. It wasn't even dramatic, it was just a certainty to me.

Now I'm two months into being 30, and it's not been an easy road but I have that list and I love it. I have reasons to live outside of dependencies, I have things I love about life. I want to see, I want to travel, I want to experience. I'm in a good job, with a loving partner, in our own home. I live in a beautiful part of the country. We're getting a dog this year, and plan to get married and have children.

However none of that is what turned it around. I am not alive because of my SO (though she has been intrumental in her support of things I've shared). I am not alive because of my job. I am not alive because I have a nice house and money. These are all reasons I enjoy life, but they aren't what saved me. I am what saved me, and you are what will save you. Every day is a win. Every breath is a win. Every time you push those thoughts down enough to continue, it's a win. Every time you crack a little off the shell to let people know how you feel, is a win.

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Trigger warnings: depression, suicide, suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, rape, detailing of wounds.
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Perspective is what allows you to win, and it's what depression robs you of.

Talk to people who know nothing about you. Tell them. Be kind to yourself. Death is final and not going anywhere, so pushing through another day to see what it brings is an overwhelming success. Keep doing that and you will climb out of that well. Even if it seems like there's no footholds, they will come. You'll never lose the memory of being in it, but it's that that will give you the strength to resist it whenever it whispers to you. You just need to keep winning long enough to realise that you and that voice inside your head are not the same, and that you are the greater of the two.

Not everyone gets to that stage though.

Every time I think about this I cry. Every time I talk about it my voice cracks. Every time I feel an immense hole in my heart. It's been 13 years and I can still feel the warmth of the blood on my hands. This is about an incredible woman I once knew, who we'll call Amy here. Amy had been my friend for years and had supported me throughout. Though I could never appreciate it at the time, and only later gained the perspective to do so fully, she was intstrumental in my own survival. She was gentle and warm person but prone to the 'bad lads'. She was also extremely attractive which meant the bad lads went for her, and it meant a ridiculous amount in her acknowledgement of me at the time. She came from an abusive home and was truly a diamond in the rough, so she empathised with a lot of the hurt I was going through and never shied away from spending time with me when her peers would reject me.

Over the years she grew less confident and more timid. She was raped by a boyfriend, abused by another and constantly found herself only in relationships where she was little more than a plaque to her partner. I helped where I could but she withdrew signficantly over time. She started to self-harm, drink excessively and other things that numbed her pain. It killed me to see, but it was impossible to break when I lived miles away and she kept going home to an environment that wasn't safe and detrimental to her health.

One day at 9:37pm I received a text message. I'll never forget the words:

I'm scared. I'm alone. I've messed up. I don't know what to do :( help.

She didn't reply to the next one and I knew this wasn't a joke. I threw myself down the stairs and into the car and drove as fast as I could to where she was staying. No answer on the front door, so I hopped the fence and ran to the back which was open. I called out her name, nothing. I ran upstairs and I saw it. Red drips on the landing, red smears on the walls. I went into the bathroom and crumpled on there she was. Unnaturally white, blood everywhere and crumpled on the floor. I took off my shirt and jumper and did what I could to wrap her arms and stem the flow but I knew fucking zero about first aid. I held her, I screamed out into the street, I softly brushed her hair as she faded slumped against me, waiting for the ambulance. I couldn't save her.

I adored her. I still do. She would have been 30 like me this year, and she would have been the most amazing woman. She would have been the most loving mother, and she could have done so much good for the world.

She can't though, and it tears through me. I know that many people she reached out to for help didn't take it seriously, and I had to stand next to many at the funeral. She was mocked for it, she was called weak and an attention seeker. She was none of them.

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Trigger warnings: depression, suicide, suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, rape, detailing of wounds.
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So I literally beg of anyone to never hand-wave people that are coming out as being suicidal. Berid yourself of any personal bar of "seriousness" that a person has to hit before you take suggestions of suicide seriously, and make sure that every single one of your friends knows that you're there for them. Not in an unspoken way, say that shit to them. Tell them that if they ever feel down that you're there to talk to, regardless of how small or large it might be.

Suicide is still such a hush-subject that people – myself included – still can't openly talk about it even when we're not considering it, because of the baggage it brings. I can't tell anyone in my life chunks of the above currently. It would scare them, because they don't understand mental illness and have thankfully never suffered from it. Today I have to tone down the depression I experienced for the comfort of others, as were I to tell anyone close to me the knowledge that I once very much considered ending my life would apply a veneer instabilty that is neither accurate nor warranted.

This is not healthy. We must become much, much more accepting of suicide as a topic of conversation and as something people deal with. Otherwise we're all awkward on it until another person dies, and that's a horrific way to keep a conversation active. People need to start challenging their own preconceptions about it, need to start realising that suicidal people are people and that in each case you have an opportunity to help and an opportunity to harm.

It doesn't matter if it's a mocking comment on a forum that another depressed user might read or otherwise, it has an impact. It affects the way we, as a whole, treat suicide and it affects the avenues of help people have to survive using. If you find yourself willing to gamble over the life and death of people in misery, purely to throw a meme or a joke in, then you seriously need to reflect on that for a bit.

Thank you for sharing this. I am not suicidal but to be honest I feel like I am vulnerable of actually proceeding there, and reading this makes me reflect about a lot of things.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,293
The thing is, I think our society and the internet as a whole is moving too quickly towards, "guilty until proven innocent,"
I mean, that is in large part specifically due to society and law enforcement being far too lax on privileged rich people while regular people get systematically oppressed to absurd levels. People are fed up with the system and while they might very well be barking up the wrong tree, at least people are being held accountable to a greater extent. Needless to say, that anger was misguided in Desmond's case which some people correctly identified while others didn't. Tough situation all around :/
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,804
I mean, that is in large part specifically due to society and law enforcement being far too lax on privileged rich people while regular people get systematically oppressed to absurd levels. People are fed up with the system and while they might very well be barking up the wrong tree, at least people are being held accountable to a greater extent. Needless to say, that anger was misguided in Desmond's case which some people correctly identified while others didn't. Tough situation all around :/
That's a whole other topic of conversation to be had which I'm not sure if appropriate here in the wake of Etika's death. There's a lot one could potentially unpack here, and there's a lot of complicated topics that can be discussed, but I feel if we move it to society as a whole away from the individual this could very easily get off topic.and it's a topic definitely worth talking about by itself, and there's many of course that will be grieving right now at Etika's loss.

I actually feel a bit sad since I feel some people's grief may be hijacked by the greater discussion this spawns and the attention it may receive for the wrong reasons. I understand why we should discuss it, but if we're going to discuss it I think it's best to pertain to things, and I apologize for bringing that point up since I realize re-reading it that it could easily spawn off-topic discussion. I will pertain from following that up, and just ask we get back to the topic at hand.
 

Deleted member 5745

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,429
Kyuuji thanks so much for sharing that. And your story really hit home for me, since in my situation I was the one that was found bleeding out in the floor. Reading your perspective made me wonder if the friend that found me felt the same way.
 

Deleted member 3812

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,821
Damn, this is very tragic and sad news to wake up to this morning :(

RIP Desmond aka Etika.

I watched his Nintendo reaction videos and some of his Let's Play videos and livestreams, he was very funny, kind and enthusiastic about gaming. Was very saddened to find out that he had recently been going through mental problems and was hoping that he would get the required help needed.

Very tragic that the most recent livestreams from him were indeed his way of getting people to know that he knew he wasn't well and that he needed help.

The last video he posted had me crying both in sadness and in frustration that our healthcare system especially when it comes to mental health is so shitty and that his death could've been prevented.

I give my deepest condolences to Desmond's family and friends.
 

Yabberwocky

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,260
I'd previously only known Etika from his Mewtwo reaction video, had been an absolute delight. When it was announced he was missing, I was horrified. I personally didn't delve into the threads involving this because the topic hit a little too close to home, but I'd very, very much hoped he would be found safe. It's utterly heartbreaking to read that this was not the case, and I'm so, so sorry for his friends and family. For whatever it means in the scheme of things, my love and thoughts are with them in their terrible and traumatic loss.

Thank you for the joy you gave to so many people, Etika. You will be dearly missed.

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Even though I hadn't been in the position to reply to this thread before now, I have been browsing it earlier, reading as so many ERA members shared their own struggles with mental health, or that of their loved ones. My heart truly goes out to you. Thank you so, so much for sharing your stories, you voices are so incredibly important. It's absolute bullshit that mental health is stigmatized and still so misunderstood, considering the deadly severity of it. Mental health is just as important to treat and address as any physical health issue. Even more absurd, is that while we call it 'mental' health, it's still very much a physical health issue - whether it is an issue of brain chemistry, altered neural pathways, overactive/enlarged amygdala etc, etc. The list goes on and on.

No one dealing with a mental health issue is remotely 'weak', either, it's the goddamn opposite - you're so fucking strong to deal with so much.

When someone suicides, I always worry that people going through similar struggles will think, 'if this person is gone, what hope do I have?' I wanted to share some things that are hopefully positive or may give perspective for anyone who feels helpless right now. (Warning for talk of suicide attempts, but nothing graphic nor specific.)

Both sides of my family have many people with mental health issues from various causes: bipolar, debilitating anxiety and depression, severe PTSD - you name it, someone's got it. Whilst I joke - because when life gives you a lot of brain chemistry lemons you need a laugh sometimes - it's something we all take very, very seriously. I've got five family members in both sides of the family that have been suicidal, three that have made actually made suicide attempts, two of which were repeated attempts that I know of. (To emphasize, no one was successful in their suicide attempts, which I'm endlessly grateful for.) Two family members in particular with bipolar disorder hit their lowest point before I was born, one with repeated suicide attempts, which breaks my heart to think about. I'm so happy to say that that both family members with bipolar disorder are still very much alive and thriving, all these decades later.

For one family member in particular, it was the mere timing of a phone call that stopped their suicide attempt - they stopped what they were doing, and picked up the phone to see who was calling. If they had been successful in their attempt, they wouldn't have gone on to have many incredible experiences of their own, and to make the world a better place for other people. They wouldn't have had their children, who have now children of their own, all of whom are extraordinary people. I'm pretty sure this family member will also have great-grand children not too long in the distant future, which will mean even more birthdays and Christmas cards to keep track of - and they've already got a lot! This family member has spoken about how glad they are that when they found themselves at such a dark crossroad, they decided to pick up that phone. I can't get my head around the ripple effect that would have occurred if they hadn't. For anyone whoever finds themselves in a similar position, please, please pick up that phone, or go for a walk, leave the house, pat your animal, eat something, watch some light television. Anything.

For the family members who have had suicide attempts, I cannot conceive what my life would have been like if they were successful. For some, I would never have gotten to meet them in the first place, let alone would not have the privilege of having them as a constant in my life. My life would truly be the poorer for it, as they've all shaped me in different ways, and for the better. That isn't to say they're perfect (who is? I'm not), but they've brought us all so much joy, laughter, wisdom, and shared with us their own unique passions and perspectives. Most importantly of all, them simply being there has meant everything.

(I will say I've also experienced a family member's suicide attempt first hand, and there aren't words to describe the immeasurable heartbreak, grief, fear, and trauma that comes with it. It's been a long time now, and I still can't believe it happened, actually. This family member is thankfully doing better now, but it hasn't been an easy road. It was also devastating to realize that even when I thought I absolutely knew all the signs of depression, I was still blindsided.)

All of this to say, for anyone who is anxious, depressed, or suicidal, please just take it a day at a time, because you never know what could change, and the positives that the future will bring - I understand it's absolutely inconceivable at times that there could be future, but there is. If there is someone you can reach out to, please do. Alongside this, therapy can give you a valuable perspective that is otherwise so hard to find when you're in such a dark place, and appropriate medication can make each day easier.

Whilst I have some nasty anxiety and PTSD myself, I haven't been severely depressed and suicidal. For those who are or who have been, I hope nothing in the above was inappropriate or distressing. I'd just wanted to share what some of my loved ones have been through, and hoped to give some long term perspective that you can be in an incredibly dark place for a long time, and still come back out of it - and be thriving decades later.

Thank you again for everyone's bravery in sharing your stories. Your words and your experiences are so important to hear. Thank you.

Trigger warnings: depression, suicide, suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, rape, detailing of wounds.

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I had hoped to make this post sooner but was unable to. This rips through me, feels incredibly close to home and heartbreaking. I'm not sure how much I'll share but some of this stuff is only known by singular people in my personal life, but it could be important for members here right now. It might be rambling in parts but hopefully some might relate to elements of it.

I'll start by echoing a post of mine in an Etika thread before this:

Which sounds harsh, but hopefully everyone can now understand the severity with which we're talking. There should be no tolerance for it, it's disgusting and it costs lives.

I have been both the person suffering, and have tried to help others who suffer.

If you're any age and can relate to Etika's last video, general desperation or find yourself apart from the world drifting – it gets better. It can, it will, it does.

I wish I could show you how far down the well I was, so you understood the tears with which this ink is mixed. I've been to the top of multi-story car parks and stood on the edge, I've sat under trees in the forest crying wondering which I might hang from soon. Every week I drive over a bridge well-known for suicides and every time I do there's still a glint within me that asks if the world would be better if I did. I don't think it ever leaves you, but now I have a list of things that pop up when I think that, reasons to stay alive. Some days that list is shorter than others, but it's always there now and a number of those items are strong enough to where I don't have to worry any more. Which is why it is so important to me that you understand that it can get better, because there were many times where I didn't have that list in the road until now.

During my time at secondary school (ages 11-16) I was both sexually abused at the start, and I was bullied on a daily basis for close to four of the years. My offense was that I was born with ginger hair and needed glasses. Mix that with being pretty shy and coming off the back of everything sexual abuse brings, and I was a prime vector of attack. We're talking being spat on, kicked between the legs, pushed down flights of metal stairs, poled on the bus, punched, kicked, whatever. Every day of school, for years. Several occasions I was threatened with knives. Nothing happened to the bullies because "boys will be boys" and because it wasn't racially motivated.

So I grew up with an irreconcilable level of self-hatred, shame, guilt and a strong perception that the issue was me. After all, I was being broken on a daily basis purely for features of my body I was unable to change. It wasn't immediate, it wasn't overnight but with time that settled and it settled deep. I became an incredible liar and – as with many people suffering from depression – managed to perfect the wearing of masks. Every day I went home and smiled at my parents, said all was fine before going upstairs and breaking down into the pillows. Occasionally I couldn't make it to the bedroom before that, and my parents would see a crack of what was happening. I'd summarily dismiss it as being solely whatever had managed to escape at the time, before going upstairs and wondering how I could get a gun in the UK to put to my head.

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Trigger warnings: depression, suicide, suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, rape, detailing of wounds.
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Which is another thing: suicide isn't taken seriously until it's committed to.

Unsuccessful suicide attempts are well known as being disregarded as attention seeking (for which I'll let the irony escape for now) but there's a further subset to where if you've only considered it but taken no action toward it then you really aren't being serious. Which needs to be challenged. Thinking of ending your own life isn't a simple one. People might want to die but few want to die in agony. This is about not living, not dying itself. If you jump from a bridge you risk tearing your body apart but surviving and living life crippled with zero ability. Pills are simple but seem horrific in their action except when coupled with alcohol, but again – you read too many stories about people surviving and coming too in the hospital having fucked their organs. A jump off of a tall building seems like the best way to go but the duration of the fall means you could regret it and be unable to reverse the decision, the same is true of hanging and bleeding out. A gun seems like the easy solution but then how do you find out how to do it well, because if you botch that then you're back with the above. Trains are the immediate solution but then you're impacting another, random, person with your already-waste-of-space life. I have spent a lot of time considering these things in the past.

This is what suicidal thoughts entertain, and it turns out that the human body is quite resilient. That dying is scary even when suicidal and that it's not a case of walking into the local supermarket and picking up the cheapest "erase me" kit. If you're not taking suicidal thoughts seriously before they become actions, then you need to change your mentality. There is no bar that people have to hit before they're "actually suicidal", and any of those barriers could crumble if a signfiicant additional blow is dealt to them in life.

Depression is your mind working against you

Why didn't they seek help? Why did they refuse help? Why did they just push people away that were trying to help? All of these show a massive ignorance towards what depression is like, and that's ok. We need to educate people, and mental illness is a conversation that has long been taboo. So ignorance is expected, but you have to be able to put aside your affront and recognise it's nothing compared to the inner turmoil the person is going through. Depression isn't logical and trying to approach it like it is won't help. When someone can't conceive their own self worth it's near impossible to believe that others can. Depression is your mind telling you that you deserve to feel this way. Depression is your mind telling you that help can only ever be temporary because you're the problem. Depression is your mind telling you to jump, because it's the only way to ensure nothing continues. It is your mind doubting every solution and labouring every negative, it is you telling you to kill yourself. It is the insidious trickery that forces you to live under that weight.

Thankfully I learned to break from it, and you can too. Councilling helps. Talking to people complete disconnected from your life helps.

When I was 16 I placed a bet with my friend at the time for £10 that I wouldn't live until 30. I couldn't see it. I was scraping by day by day purely for others and I couldn't conceive of a happy life so far into the future. It wasn't even dramatic, it was just a certainty to me.

Now I'm two months into being 30, and it's not been an easy road but I have that list and I love it. I have reasons to live outside of dependencies, I have things I love about life. I want to see, I want to travel, I want to experience. I'm in a good job, with a loving partner, in our own home. I live in a beautiful part of the country. We're getting a dog this year, and plan to get married and have children.

However none of that is what turned it around. I am not alive because of my SO (though she has been intrumental in her support of things I've shared). I am not alive because of my job. I am not alive because I have a nice house and money. These are all reasons I enjoy life, but they aren't what saved me. I am what saved me, and you are what will save you. Every day is a win. Every breath is a win. Every time you push those thoughts down enough to continue, it's a win. Every time you crack a little off the shell to let people know how you feel, is a win.

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Trigger warnings: depression, suicide, suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, rape, detailing of wounds.
---------

Perspective is what allows you to win, and it's what depression robs you of.

Talk to people who know nothing about you. Tell them. Be kind to yourself. Death is final and not going anywhere, so pushing through another day to see what it brings is an overwhelming success. Keep doing that and you will climb out of that well. Even if it seems like there's no footholds, they will come. You'll never lose the memory of being in it, but it's that that will give you the strength to resist it whenever it whispers to you. You just need to keep winning long enough to realise that you and that voice inside your head are not the same, and that you are the greater of the two.

Not everyone gets to that stage though.

Every time I think about this I cry. Every time I talk about it my voice cracks. Every time I feel an immense hole in my heart. It's been 13 years and I can still feel the warmth of the blood on my hands. This is about an incredible woman I once knew, who we'll call Amy here. Amy had been my friend for years and had supported me throughout. Though I could never appreciate it at the time, and only later gained the perspective to do so fully, she was intstrumental in my own survival. She was gentle and warm person but prone to the 'bad lads'. She was also extremely attractive which meant the bad lads went for her, and it meant a ridiculous amount in her acknowledgement of me at the time. She came from an abusive home and was truly a diamond in the rough, so she empathised with a lot of the hurt I was going through and never shied away from spending time with me when her peers would reject me.

Over the years she grew less confident and more timid. She was raped by a boyfriend, abused by another and constantly found herself only in relationships where she was little more than a plaque to her partner. I helped where I could but she withdrew signficantly over time. She started to self-harm, drink excessively and other things that numbed her pain. It killed me to see, but it was impossible to break when I lived miles away and she kept going home to an environment that wasn't safe and detrimental to her health.

One day at 9:37pm I received a text message. I'll never forget the words:

I'm scared. I'm alone. I've messed up. I don't know what to do :( help.

She didn't reply to the next one and I knew this wasn't a joke. I threw myself down the stairs and into the car and drove as fast as I could to where she was staying. No answer on the front door, so I hopped the fence and ran to the back which was open. I called out her name, nothing. I ran upstairs and I saw it. Red drips on the landing, red smears on the walls. I went into the bathroom and crumpled on there she was. Unnaturally white, blood everywhere and crumpled on the floor. I took off my shirt and jumper and did what I could to wrap her arms and stem the flow but I knew fucking zero about first aid. I held her, I screamed out into the street, I softly brushed her hair as she faded slumped against me, waiting for the ambulance. I couldn't save her.

I adored her. I still do. She would have been 30 like me this year, and she would have been the most amazing woman. She would have been the most loving mother, and she could have done so much good for the world.

She can't though, and it tears through me. I know that many people she reached out to for help didn't take it seriously, and I had to stand next to many at the funeral. She was mocked for it, she was called weak and an attention seeker. She was none of them.

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Trigger warnings: depression, suicide, suicidal thoughts, sexual abuse, rape, detailing of wounds.
---------

So I literally beg of anyone to never hand-wave people that are coming out as being suicidal. Berid yourself of any personal bar of "seriousness" that a person has to hit before you take suggestions of suicide seriously, and make sure that every single one of your friends knows that you're there for them. Not in an unspoken way, say that shit to them. Tell them that if they ever feel down that you're there to talk to, regardless of how small or large it might be.

Suicide is still such a hush-subject that people – myself included – still can't openly talk about it even when we're not considering it, because of the baggage it brings. I can't tell anyone in my life chunks of the above currently. It would scare them, because they don't understand mental illness and have thankfully never suffered from it. Today I have to tone down the depression I experienced for the comfort of others, as were I to tell anyone close to me the knowledge that I once very much considered ending my life would apply a veneer instabilty that is neither accurate nor warranted.

This is not healthy. We must become much, much more accepting of suicide as a topic of conversation and as something people deal with. Otherwise we're all awkward on it until another person dies, and that's a horrific way to keep a conversation active. People need to start challenging their own preconceptions about it, need to start realising that suicidal people are people and that in each case you have an opportunity to help and an opportunity to harm.

It doesn't matter if it's a mocking comment on a forum that another depressed user might read or otherwise, it has an impact. It affects the way we, as a whole, treat suicide and it affects the avenues of help people have to survive using. If you find yourself willing to gamble over the life and death of people in misery, purely to throw a meme or a joke in, then you seriously need to reflect on that for a bit.

I wish I could express this more eloquently, but thank you so, so much for sharing your story. It was an incredibly emotional read. All the best to you for the future, and we're so glad you're here.

And god yes, the stigma around talking about suicide is so dangerous in and of itself, because not being able to talk about it almost gives the idea more power, and in turn, not being able to talk about it creates even more isolation, which just makes the situation even worse again. (Let alone people treating it as a joke... I don't even know where to begin.)
 

Nairume

SaGa Sage
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,940
Worth pointing out that SO many people across many different sites, even his own fans, just didn't take it seriously or mocked him for faking when it's clear now he wasn't.
Yeah, it's this that really gets me furious when I see people trying to turn this into a discussion about "cancel culture" here.

Him getting "cancelled" certainly contributed to his declining state and he is remorseful about the things he said that got people mad in his final message, but the real failure of the overall community (and it's not just Era, though Era clearly specifically needs to do a lot of growing on the subject) was in how his declining condition was being received. You go into the other thread, and the vast majority of people banned weren't commenting on how we should ignore him because he was cancelled. It was people just being annoyed at having to be reminded of him at all. Because that's how suicide and mental illness works in our society. It's a joke to some and an inconvenience to others until it's a tragedy for all. And that's fucking horseshit, and yet it's exactly what happened here.

So for all the people who feel partially uncomfortable and alienated from this community not because of a silly fear of being cancelled, but because of how the discussion surrounding etika made you feel unsafe to discuss your own state. I see you. And I do care.
 

Abominuz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,550
Netherlands
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful thins that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
Because everybody has a different story and some find things harder than others due to a wide range of contributing factors, be glad you don't understand it.
 

Bansai

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,280
It's both tragic and poetic that such an ugly, harrowing situation has turned into the mirror by which Era finally gazes for some self-reflection.

The dreary state of world affairs has taken a large mental toll on decent folks who pay attention to the news (which is Era's primary demographic). There's so much cultural rage and fear, and over time it can turn otherwise well-intentioned people into twisted caricatures of the causes they've tried to champion all along.

In a desperate attempt to make sense of the daily horrors we subject ourselves to reading about day after day and year after year, a laser-focus is put on every individual transgression. The troubling issues in society are so unfathomably complex, so impossibly interconnected by a million different variables, that the macro-reasons underlying things like widespread corruption, bigoted views, and ruthless violence are too big to tackle. But by honing in on the unending supply of individual scapegoats to pin these problems on instead, we can at least bask in the comforting delusion that there's an underlying system of logical, black and white morality at play. If we can just uproot every weed one-by-one, eventually the world will stop being the hateful hellscape that has caused communities like ours to lose all sense of nuance in the first place.

I don't know what the answer is. More compassion towards all is surely part of it, but the fiery justice side of me automatically bristles at the thought of giving people a pass for contributing to the type of woes that keep me up at night. If I really look deep though, I know ultimately that righteous indignation is just a smokescreen many people (myself included) use to justify trotting out their own personal demons. Sure, I made a snap-judgment about the totality of a fellow human being based solely on a single terrible thing they said, but dammit, they spewed hatred first! Can't you see that my venom is now justified?

But people who truly do cling to ignorant, harmful, or otherwise ugly views certainly shouldn't be allowed to let their idea of a perfect society seep into the real world. Trump is prime example number one of what happens when groups like that are allowed to influence society. I have a sneaking suspicion that killing them with kindness just won't work.

In the end, I think the hardest pill to swallow is this: We won't solve society's woes. Ever. Moral and social progress will ebb and flow like the tide, and will continue to do so long after our lives end. The only real way to go to the grave with a life well-lived is by doing what we can to alleviate the suffering in others and ourselves while we're still here. And if that means letting go of your own internal anger so you can have a more serene existence, even as injustices lurk around every turn, so be it. You can still stand up for what's right without building a cave of demons in your head to mentally (or publicly) denigrate every single human soul you've ever witnessed saying or doing something foul.

It's sad that it's taken something as irreversible as suicide to spur these types of discussions, but I hope many of us can take a step back now and examine the internal machinations of our minds. Let's finally turn off the autopilot setting for our collective judgement and vitriol, no matter how justified we think it may be.

I tried to avoid posting about anything other than Etika but this is too beautifully written to simply ignore.

However I'm sorry to say but don't think most people will learn from this, I'm pretty sure soon they'll have another "clown of the week" to cancel.
 

Like the hat?

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,577
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
Because depression and self loathing and mental illnesses are all infinitely more than just being "weak" and not "manning up". Good that you escaped, but to be frank, you're the outlier case.
 

Abominuz

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,550
Netherlands
Because everybody has a different story and some find things harder than others due to a wide range of contributing factors, be glad you don't understand it.

I can understand that everybody has a different story, but what are the contributing factors? Maybe you are right, and i can not understand it because i don't feel that way. Yes the hurt and pain is there, but i process and coop with it differently. Is it then will or willpower, or no self worth?
 

LuisGarcia

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,478
Never seen any of the guys stuff but very sad.

I can't even imagine where your mind would have to be at to go through with ending your life.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,122
As much as I agree with viewing everyone as human and avoiding getting too addicted to anger (or adoration) towards people you don't know personally, I don't think this will ever happen for most people nor do I necessarily think it's "wrong" to disregard someone completely if they said/did something you consider bad.

Because there will always be that "stan"/"hater" part of culture as celebs put themselves on display day, I think a more important lesson is to have people think twice before tying their most important life passions to public money-making activities. When you get that burnout, or when the fans get to you, you should be able to have something outside of that activity that completes your life.
 

Betty

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,604
When you see even the pattern from the last few months it's clear he was self destructing.

Uploading porn to his Youtube channel and getting it deactivated

Using slurs on Twitch and getting banned.

And right after those events he starts talking suicide.

It's like he says in the video, it was Mental Health, Social Media and attempting to be Edgy even when his closest friends counselled him not to that gradually wore him down.

The thing that got to me in his video was how he mentions he was really looking forward to seeing more Attack on Titan and wished he could stay around and see what happens.

It's like he kept mentioning reasons to live but his mind was so tortured it wouldn't let him.
 

phonicjoy

Banned
Jun 19, 2018
4,305
I can understand that everybody has a different story, but what are the contributing factors? Maybe you are right, and i can not understand it because i don't feel that way. Yes the hurt and pain is there, but i process and coop with it differently. Is it then will or willpower, or no self worth?

No its not, its just brain chemistry.

I've been dipping in and out of depression myself, and I've had periods where I would look around while driving to see If there was a nice big tree to just ram my car into. I have no trauma to speak of, no horrible youth, its just bad luck.
 

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
I can understand that everybody has a different story, but what are the contributing factors? Maybe you are right, and i can not understand it because i don't feel that way. Yes the hurt and pain is there, but i process and coop with it differently. Is it then will or willpower, or no self worth?
Contributing factors like what makes you as a person, your biological make up, hereditary aspects, cultural aspects, sociological aspects, your "soul", personality type, viewpoint on the world, the food you eat, the friends you have, family you have etc.

I mean, have you been a popular YouTuber in your life? Maybe if you had been the stress of that life style would have sent you over the edge, who knows?
 

Deleted member 12379

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,999
It's both tragic and poetic that such an ugly, harrowing situation has turned into the mirror by which Era finally gazes for some self-reflection.

The dreary state of world affairs has taken a large mental toll on decent folks who pay attention to the news (which is Era's primary demographic). There's so much cultural rage and fear, and over time it can turn otherwise well-intentioned people into twisted caricatures of the causes they've tried to champion all along.

In a desperate attempt to make sense of the daily horrors we subject ourselves to reading about day after day and year after year, a laser-focus is put on every individual transgression. The troubling issues in society are so unfathomably complex, so impossibly interconnected by a million different variables, that the macro-reasons underlying things like widespread corruption, bigoted views, and ruthless violence are too big to tackle. But by honing in on the unending supply of individual scapegoats to pin these problems on instead, we can at least bask in the comforting delusion that there's an underlying system of logical, black and white morality at play. If we can just uproot every weed one-by-one, eventually the world will stop being the hateful hellscape that has caused communities like ours to lose all sense of nuance in the first place.

I don't know what the answer is. More compassion towards all is surely part of it, but the fiery justice side of me automatically bristles at the thought of giving people a pass for contributing to the type of woes that keep me up at night. If I really look deep though, I know ultimately that righteous indignation is just a smokescreen many people (myself included) use to justify trotting out their own personal demons. Sure, I made a snap-judgment about the totality of a fellow human being based solely on a single terrible thing they said, but dammit, they spewed hatred first! Can't you see that my venom is now justified?

But people who truly do cling to ignorant, harmful, or otherwise ugly views certainly shouldn't be allowed to let their idea of a perfect society seep into the real world. Trump is prime example number one of what happens when groups like that are allowed to influence society. I have a sneaking suspicion that killing them with kindness just won't work.

In the end, I think the hardest pill to swallow is this: We won't solve society's woes. Ever. Moral and social progress will ebb and flow like the tide, and will continue to do so long after our lives end. The only real way to go to the grave with a life well-lived is by doing what we can to alleviate the suffering in others and ourselves while we're still here. And if that means letting go of your own internal anger so you can have a more serene existence, even as injustices lurk around every turn, so be it. You can still stand up for what's right without building a cave of demons in your head to mentally (or publicly) denigrate every single human soul you've ever witnessed saying or doing something foul.

It's sad that it's taken something as irreversible as suicide to spur these types of discussions, but I hope many of us can take a step back now and examine the internal machinations of our minds. Let's finally turn off the autopilot setting for our collective judgement and vitriol, no matter how justified we think it may be.
Read this post again this morning. Rings too true for myself. I've turned into something I did not expect tbh. I need to take some time for my own mh for sure. Thanks for writing this.
 

DevilMayGuy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,577
Texas
That previous Etika thread boils my fucking blood. All of those idiots should have been permabanned.
The ones who said really bad shit already got banned. People who were skeptical had their reasons, even if they ended up being wrong. You just want blood at this point, and want to make this shit all about personal satisfaction at seeing people banned for something you disagree with.
Nah. Chill. People made mistakes, and hopefully will have learned from them. If they slip up again in the future, then smash that report button and take your pleasure then.
 

Elephant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,786
Nottingham, UK
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
Un-Bloody-Ban this person, who it seems is genuinely open to hearing other peoples opinion and experiences and is asking a question to help them better understand the various forms of mental health. His experiences are not invalid, it's a common thought. Even for people who gone through this. I used to tell myself to "man up", until the self-hatred became too unbearable, because that's what we're taught right? Stop being so trigger happy. This kind of discourse is so fucking important!
 

ElOdyssey

Member
Oct 30, 2017
713
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
Why did this person get banned? He was clearly trying to understand the situation better.
 

Kanhir

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,891
Un-Bloody-Ban this person, who it seems is genuinely open to hearing other peoples opinion and experiences and is asking a question to help them better understand the various forms of mental health. His experiences are not invalid, it's a common thought. Even for people who gone through this. I used to tell myself to "man up", until the self-hatred became too unbearable, because that's what we're taught right? Stop being so trigger happy. This kind of discourse is so fucking important!
Seconded. This is an outrageous ban. Have the mods learned nothing from the discussion in this topic?

That aside, thank you all for sharing your experiences. I have a lot of doors inside me that I'm actively avoiding opening, and it truly helps to know that other people are in similar situations.
 

Deleted member 2172

Account closed at user request
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,577
The ones who said really bad shit already got banned. People who were skeptical had their reasons, even if they ended up being wrong. You just want blood at this point, and want to make this shit all about personal satisfaction at seeing people banned for something you disagree with.
Nah
Nothing to do with blood, more to do with how we should not be welcoming those kind of posters into the community. There is a difference between the skepticism by some and the seething negativity that was spewed by a select few people repeatedly in that thread. I have no control over what happens to those people but I will voice my opinion that those select few should have been perma'd.
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
Mods, its quite clear that English is not this posters first language and they found it difficult to put across their thought process. Come on.
 
Last edited:

Tzarscream

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,945
Un-Bloody-Ban this person, who it seems is genuinely open to hearing other peoples opinion and experiences and is asking a question to help them better understand the various forms of mental health. His experiences are not invalid, it's a common thought. Even for people who gone through this. I used to tell myself to "man up", until the self-hatred became too unbearable, because that's what we're taught right? Stop being so trigger happy. This kind of discourse is so fucking important!
Surely a warning would have been sufficient? The conversation was going pretty well it's not like he was being toxic.
 

Dest

Has seen more 10s than EA ever will
Coward
Jun 4, 2018
14,057
Work
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
A.) This person shouldn't have been banned. What the fuck?
B.) As someone who very nearly pushed my off button, this doesn't offend me at all, and I don't feel like your feelings are unreasonable either. It's good that you're able to keep fighting, and I respect that and that position even after all that stuff has happened to you. I was like that for a while too, I was able to keep fighting, to keep moving forward but one day something just flipped where I felt like I had completely given up, like there were no better days ahead and nothing could get better. People react to situations differently that others. You and many others are able to push through it, myself and many others brains just refuse to function or allow them to do so. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

I steadily declined into a very dark spot that lead to me nearly ending it. But I had to fight with myself again to put myself back into those fighting spirits again. Telling people to "man up" is perhaps the wrong way to word it, but encouraging others to seek support and offering to be there for them when you can is something that helps a lot (at least it did with me). Getting told to do your best to put your best foot forward and get on with the day can make the world of difference, it all just depends on how it's said and who it's coming from. I'm glad you were able to push through and continue to push through. We all want to be able to do so, but sometimes we run into that bump in the road that we just can't push past even though we know we need to, but I hope that if you or any others here ever hit one that they're able to, or are able to get the help they need to do so.
 

Kanhir

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,891
Surely a warning would have been sufficient? The conversation was going pretty well it's not like he was being toxic.
I would even disagree with a warning, because it wasn't a bad faith post. It was someone sharing their life experience and saying "this 'man the fuck up' approach worked for me, why doesn't it work for others?"

This is valuable discourse because this is how most uneducated people see depression. The user (and anyone else with this opinion) will learn nothing from being silenced - I'm just glad people had a chance to reply and educate them before they were banned.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
Thanks for the confession man, sometimes I have thoughts, like everything is going wrong and I never see the light again type of moments. This gave me some hope that things could and hopefully one day be alright. As long as we support each other (people struggling) everything could be alright 🤙🏼✌🏼
 

Pein

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,235
NYC
Probably the whole "man the fuck up" part, which is a notoriously shitty thing to tell depressed people.
Some people legit feel like thats a valid way to deal with depression, it might be a shitty thing to say but it comes from a lack of understanding about mental health. I don't think they should've been banned, a warning maybe and some discourse about the subject.
 

Deleted member 23212

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
11,225
Some people legit feel like thats a valid way to deal with depression, it might be a shitty thing to say but it comes from a lack of understanding about mental health. I don't think they should've been banned, a warning maybe and some discourse about the subject.
That's part of the toxic masculinity that exacerbates depression.
 

Deleted member 28461

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,830
Some people legit feel like thats a valid way to deal with depression, it might be a shitty thing to say but it comes from a lack of understanding about mental health. I don't think they should've been banned, a warning maybe and some discourse about the subject.
Yeah, seemed like they got silenced as soon as the discourse started. What the fuck is with the mods here? I like the community here, but I barely post these days due to the terrible moderation.
 

TheGhost

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,137
Long Island
It's both tragic and poetic that such an ugly, harrowing situation has turned into the mirror by which Era finally gazes for some self-reflection.

The dreary state of world affairs has taken a large mental toll on decent folks who pay attention to the news (which is Era's primary demographic). There's so much cultural rage and fear, and over time it can turn otherwise well-intentioned people into twisted caricatures of the causes they've tried to champion all along.

In a desperate attempt to make sense of the daily horrors we subject ourselves to reading about day after day and year after year, a laser-focus is put on every individual transgression. The troubling issues in society are so unfathomably complex, so impossibly interconnected by a million different variables, that the macro-reasons underlying things like widespread corruption, bigoted views, and ruthless violence are too big to tackle. But by honing in on the unending supply of individual scapegoats to pin these problems on instead, we can at least bask in the comforting delusion that there's an underlying system of logical, black and white morality at play. If we can just uproot every weed one-by-one, eventually the world will stop being the hateful hellscape that has caused communities like ours to lose all sense of nuance in the first place.

I don't know what the answer is. More compassion towards all is surely part of it, but the fiery justice side of me automatically bristles at the thought of giving people a pass for contributing to the type of woes that keep me up at night. If I really look deep though, I know ultimately that righteous indignation is just a smokescreen many people (myself included) use to justify trotting out their own personal demons. Sure, I made a snap-judgment about the totality of a fellow human being based solely on a single terrible thing they said, but dammit, they spewed hatred first! Can't you see that my venom is now justified?

But people who truly do cling to ignorant, harmful, or otherwise ugly views certainly shouldn't be allowed to let their idea of a perfect society seep into the real world. Trump is prime example number one of what happens when groups like that are allowed to influence society. I have a sneaking suspicion that killing them with kindness just won't work.

In the end, I think the hardest pill to swallow is this: We won't solve society's woes. Ever. Moral and social progress will ebb and flow like the tide, and will continue to do so long after our lives end. The only real way to go to the grave with a life well-lived is by doing what we can to alleviate the suffering in others and ourselves while we're still here. And if that means letting go of your own internal anger so you can have a more serene existence, even as injustices lurk around every turn, so be it. You can still stand up for what's right without building a cave of demons in your head to mentally (or publicly) denigrate every single human soul you've ever witnessed saying or doing something foul.

It's sad that it's taken something as irreversible as suicide to spur these types of discussions, but I hope many of us can take a step back now and examine the internal machinations of our minds. Let's finally turn off the autopilot setting for our collective judgement and vitriol, no matter how justified we think it may be.
Missed this yesterday but feel like this should be handed out as a pamphlet at the entrance of every hot topic thread. Great job
 

Deleted member 21709

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
23,310
Un-Bloody-Ban this person, who it seems is genuinely open to hearing other peoples opinion and experiences and is asking a question to help them better understand the various forms of mental health. His experiences are not invalid, it's a common thought. Even for people who gone through this. I used to tell myself to "man up", until the self-hatred became too unbearable, because that's what we're taught right? Stop being so trigger happy. This kind of discourse is so fucking important!

Reading 'man up' is toxic and deeply unsettling. Has got to be bait.
 

AmbientRuin

Member
Apr 18, 2019
467
Yeah, seemed like they got silenced as soon as the discourse started. What the fuck is with the mods here? I like the community here, but I barely post these days due to the terrible moderation.
Saying people with depression should man the fuck up instead of killing themselves is a shitty thing to say sorry
 

GiantBreadbug

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,992
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.

I'm gonna go ahead and add my voice to the "this post is misguided but banning the user is absurd" pile. Not because I don't empathize with the group in question (have a history of suicidal thoughts myself continuing to this day), but because this culture of condemnation is frankly a contributing factor to what we've had to unfortunately see happen.

Moderation really needs to learn to engage and talk with users like this rather than automatically ban them. The thing they're saying is not good, but they aren't being flippant and dismissive.

Honestly, this kind of an indictment of the lack of lesson learned here with this appalling incident. Learn to take your fellow person's flaws and try to dismantle those flaws rather than the person themself.
 

Finale Fireworker

Love each other or die trying.
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,713
United States
Hey folks, the ban was quickly reviewed and repealed. It is not always clear what intent is behind a post. We do not want to limit productive discussions on mental health, but please everyone be wary of the language used. Education is important but so is sensitivity. We hope people will choose their words more carefully moving forward.
 
Last edited:

Ketkat

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,727
A.) This person shouldn't have been banned. What the fuck?
B.) As someone who very nearly pushed my off button, this doesn't offend me at all, and I don't feel like your feelings are unreasonable either. It's good that you're able to keep fighting, and I respect that and that position even after all that stuff has happened to you. I was like that for a while too, I was able to keep fighting, to keep moving forward but one day something just flipped where I felt like I had completely given up, like there were no better days ahead and nothing could get better. People react to situations differently that others. You and many others are able to push through it, myself and many others brains just refuse to function or allow them to do so. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

I steadily declined into a very dark spot that lead to me nearly ending it. But I had to fight with myself again to put myself back into those fighting spirits again. Telling people to "man up" is perhaps the wrong way to word it, but encouraging others to seek support and offering to be there for them when you can is something that helps a lot (at least it did with me). Getting told to do your best to put your best foot forward and get on with the day can make the world of difference, it all just depends on how it's said and who it's coming from. I'm glad you were able to push through and continue to push through. We all want to be able to do so, but sometimes we run into that bump in the road that we just can't push past even though we know we need to, but I hope that if you or any others here ever hit one that they're able to, or are able to get the help they need to do so.

As someone who has been suicidal in the past as well, I did take offense to it. People who break down a situation of being depressed as telling someone to "Man the fuck up" are trivializing the impact of how mental health can impact people while also furthering the idea that men have to be strong and powerful and never show signs of weakness. Comments like these are literally a large part of the reason why men are not comfortable opening up about issues that they're facing because they'll be dismissed like this with comments that they're doing something wrong just for trying to be vulnerable
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,220
You know what I'd love to do right now? Buy you a beer and just talk about life with you. Share experiences, and raise our drinks for the good times that have already passed and the ones yet to come.
Cheers. Wish you the best.
🍻
Thank you, that's really nice.
Shit a lot of this hits home. Especially the part about finding a gun in the UK. A big factor for me was not wanting to subject my family to a police investigation after I'm gone trying to find out how I would've obtained one.
I can feel you there, the thought of my parents going to prison for something like that was something that repeatedly crossed my mind at the time. Any resulting investigation, from anything.
Thank you for sharing this. I am not suicidal but to be honest I feel like I am vulnerable of actually proceeding there, and reading this makes me reflect about a lot of things.
Talk to someone and trust yourself enough to know when you're struggling. There is zero shame to it. Whether it's me, people in the community thread, a charity or outreach program or a close friend - definitely talk if you feel you have things you need to let out. Talking isn't just about having a something to say, it's about letting things out and processing them.
Kyuuji thanks so much for sharing that. And your story really hit home for me, since in my situation I was the one that was found bleeding out in the floor. Reading your perspective made me wonder if the friend that found me felt the same way.
I'm so sorry to hear you've been through that and for your pain, and I'm so thankful you're here to type this message. I have zero doubts that had they not found you in time they would be where I am now, with a hole punched through me. One of the best things we can learn to trust in others is that they can see us differently from how we see ourselves, and that whatever well we're currently at the bottom off isn't as dark nor deep as it seems.

All the best to you my friend.

I wish I could express this more eloquently, but thank you so, so much for sharing your story. It was an incredibly emotional read. All the best to you for the future, and we're so glad you're here.

And god yes, the stigma around talking about suicide is so dangerous in and of itself, because not being able to talk about it almost gives the idea more power, and in turn, not being able to talk about it creates even more isolation, which just makes the situation even worse again. (Let alone people treating it as a joke... I don't even know where to begin.)
First of all, thank you for sharing too and for the well wishes. Perspectives on the side of the family are equally as important in breaking the bind people are trapped in with depression. My sincere best to you and your family. I'm thankful that the post has been useful to people to read, as it's been restorative to write and get responses for. I can count on my hand the number of times I've mentioned any of the above over the past decade, and you all are amazing for providing a space in which one can feel comfortable to post it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
7,510
Glad Abominuz made it, but telling others to 'man the fuck up' will always be terrible advice, you might as well tell me I'm cured.
It's not like I like the suffering.
What does that mean exactly? To 'man up'? Are some of us lesser for not succeeding in what it means to 'be a man'?
I sometimes slip myself and perpetuate this nonsense to others, I've said this kind of bullshit many times.
It's not good.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
Some people legit feel like thats a valid way to deal with depression, it might be a shitty thing to say but it comes from a lack of understanding about mental health. I don't think they should've been banned, a warning maybe and some discourse about the subject.

That might be true. I just want to reiterate how that's one of the worst but most common pieces of advice people tend to give.
Your brain is the organ that interprets reality, and when that physiology changes or "breaks" its not something where you can just "be a man". You often need serious treatment and drugs that change the chemical balance in your brain.

As someone who has been suicidal in the past as well, I did take offense to it. People who break down a situation of being depressed as telling someone to "Man the fuck up" are trivializing the impact of how mental health can impact people while also furthering the idea that men have to be strong and powerful and never show signs of weakness. Comments like these are literally a large part of the reason why men are not comfortable opening up about issues that they're facing because they'll be dismissed like this with comments that they're doing something wrong just for trying to be vulnerable

The machismo side of it is also a real problem.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
Yeah, seemed like they got silenced as soon as the discourse started. What the fuck is with the mods here? I like the community here, but I barely post these days due to the terrible moderation.

The whole man up attitude can be really harmful to those who are vulnerable. Letting posts that are potentially harmful to mentally ill members of the community go unchecked is what half this thread has been talking about, and the mods just promised they were going to try to be more alert and attentive to that kind of thing.

They obviously decided that they overcorrecteed in this instance and then adjusted. No need to be this overdramatic when they're very obviously trying to do better about a serious issue. You can report bans you think are bad, just like you can report bad posts.

As someone who has been suicidal in the past as well, I did take offense to it. People who break down a situation of being depressed as telling someone to "Man the fuck up" are trivializing the impact of how mental health can impact people while also furthering the idea that men have to be strong and powerful and never show signs of weakness. Comments like these are literally a large part of the reason why men are not comfortable opening up about issues that they're facing because they'll be dismissed like this with comments that they're doing something wrong just for trying to be vulnerable

Yeah, like I'm glad the dude is open to the idea of dialogue, but suggesting that it's a weakness inside the person is literally the kind of thing that causes people to hurt themselves. Most mentally ill people understand that our logic doesn't make sense, that it isn't how we want to feel, and actual brain chemistry is stopping it. Knowing that we don't have that control over even our own thoughts is a factor that can make someone feel even worse, making it even harder to get out of those feelings.

It's like telling someone who has a disability that makes it difficult for them to walk that you're angry with them for not trying hard enough when your legs work just fine. You get tired too, but you've pushed through. Do they really need that wheelchair or is it because they're too emotionally weak to stand?

People probably wouldn't tell someone in a wheelchair to just man up and step out of it; it's the same basic principle, except that the muscle that doesn't work the way we wish it did is the brain.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,220
I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
By all accounts your life has been more rough than mine, so let's have a conversation about it. Here's where I was, and why you would have told me to man the fuck up:


I can tell you that "man the fuck up" was a common sentiment whenever I showed even the slightest crack of emotion, of which was a splash on the surface. I can tell you that that phrase has contributed towards strong feeling of self-hatred and confusion surrounding my own identity that have only been laid to rest these past few months, over a decade later. I can tell you that the suggestion that you shouldn't admit weakness or fault has led to deep-seated anxiety issues that led to 16-hour long panic attacks, ambulance rides and numerous collapses well over a decade later.

I can tell you that when I was told to man the fuck up, I took that to mean I should either kill myself or quit whining.
 

Elephant

Member
Nov 2, 2017
1,786
Nottingham, UK
Honest question, because i do not know much about the subject of mental illness. How is it that one has a fighting spirit and hope and another get broken and defeated.

In short, don't feel like writing a novel:
I have been living on my own since i was 16 (37 now), my father abused my mother when i was a baby (father was oke in my teens, but then died when i was 18). My Mother has always been distanced because she missed her own childhood always gone to work or with friends. I have been to prison, been stabbed and been hurt a lot emotionally and have hurt a lot of people also. From being alone across sea in a foreign country with not even 1 cent to my name to the passing away of an stillborn. And lets not talk about racism because i am mixed, that they see my name and have a job interview and see me and all of a sudden no job available anymore. To losing all my friends and family, to a couple of years of alcohol and drug abuse A lot of shit has happened.

But i never and never once thought about suicide or giving up or going to that dark place. I always kept fighting and kept hope that i did not deserve this life. I have been lonely and questioned why do these things happen to me. But i always told myself it is just a matter if time and keep going and survive. Now i am a manager at an energy company i have a caring loving wife and 3 beautiful kids and no more debt and i am living a very good life. I have a good relationship again with my mother and family and i feel so loved. And looking and feeling good if i may say so myself and working out in the gym 4 days a week. I would have missed all these thing if i gave up and i am so blessed now. I feel anger and sadness when i see someone going trough depression. I just want to say man the fuck up and show them what you are made of and never accept defeat. You are missing out on so many beautiful things that you also deserve to have. Are my feelings unreasonable? Because i do not want to offend anyone, i just want to understand.
An answer to your question, after moaning about your undeserved ban:

There is no simple answer, we all experience things differently in life. Every individuals values are different. In fact suicidal tendencies aren't limited to people who have had traumatic experiences, it can be someone who is loved in a loving family who is just... sad.

You have obviously gone through some terrible things, which I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, and I admire your ability to come out of the other side of that for the better. So I can see why you would look at someone who hasn't suffered any of those hardships and think "Man up", I completely get it.

I was brought up a nice loving family, Mum and Dad were separated, but they were both there for me. I never wanted for nothing and I've had a very privileged life. My attempt at suicide came from a position of self-loathing, i couldn't bear to look at myself. Once I was staring in the mirror, I started crying and just slammed my face into it as hard as I could. I broke my nose and still have small scar from the glass. Why? I'm not ugly. I'm not overweight. Honestly, i couldn't tell you why I hated myself so much, and that's probably the scariest thing about it, when you have no excuse for those feelings.

For years i felt like that before trying to commit suicide. I left a note for my mum. She found me. I don't want to go into details of what I tried, but I'm still here. I'm happy for that now.

My self-acceptance came about 2 years after my attempt at my own life. It was like a lightbulb moment, i don't think anything triggered it, it just happened. I'm not completely rid of my demons, I don't think I ever will be, but I have a happiness now. Some people aren't so lucky, or able to take that much punishment. That doesn't make them weak.

It wasn't a case of me manning up, but a case of me just getting through it. My battle was in my head and against myself. Mental illness can come from anywhere and affect anyone. I don't know if I've answered your question, but I hope there's some understanding that can be taken from it.