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Oct 25, 2017
8,277
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/us/politics/trump-tower-veselnitskaya-russia.html

NYT said:
Natalia V. Veselnitskaya arrived at a meeting at Trump Tower in June 2016 hoping to interest top Trump campaign officials in the contents of a memo she believed contained information damaging to the Democratic Party and, by extension, Hillary Clinton. The material was the fruit of her research as a private lawyer, she has repeatedly said, and any suggestion that she was acting at the Kremlin's behest that day is anti-Russia "hysteria."

But interviews and records show that in the months before the meeting, Ms. Veselnitskaya had discussed the allegations with one of Russia's most powerful officials, the prosecutor generalYuri Y. Chaika. And the memo she brought with her closely followed a document that Mr. Chaika's office had given to an American congressman two months earlier, incorporating some paragraphs verbatim.

The coordination between the Trump Tower visitor and the Russian prosecutor general undercuts Ms. Veselnitskaya's account that she was a purely independent actor when she sat down with Donald Trump Jr., Jared Kushner, the president's son-in-law, and Paul J. Manafort, then the Trump campaign chairman. It also suggests that emails from an intermediary to the younger Mr. Trump promising that Ms. Veselnitskaya would arrive with information from Russian prosecutors were rooted at least partly in fact — not mere "puffery," as the president's son later said.

In the past week, Ms. Veselnitskaya's allegations — that major Democratic donors were guilty of financial fraud and tax evasion — have been embraced at the highest levels of the Russian government. Russian President Vladimir V. Putin repeated her charges at length last week at an annual conference of Western academics. A state-run television network recently made them the subject of two special reports, featuring interviews with Ms. Veselnitskaya and Mr. Chaika.

The matching messages point to a synchronized information campaign. Like some other Russian experts, Stephen Blank, a senior fellow with the nonprofit American Foreign Policy Council in Washington, said they indicate that Ms. Veselnitskaya's actions "were coordinated from the very top."

Huh, another huge Trump/Russia revelation. Must be Friday.
 

Ithil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,390
Every time they try to declare, with zero basis, that the Russia investigation is "dead", we get some new major revelation. For a dead thing it refuses to stop moving around.
 

MonoStable

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,052
But trump said the collusion story against him was over, its Hillary now that's the Russians colluded with /s
 

Juan29.Zapata

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,354
Colombia
To be honest, I don't get surprised with this kind of news anymore. If this is what the press finds, I wonder what a certain investigation is finding.
 

pramod

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
508
So Trump Jr was offered some oppo research of dirt on Hillary (which he rejected), not sure how that is any different (or worse?) than the oppo research(Trump dossier) that was paid for by the DNC? Both sides seem to be doing the same sort of thing.
 

Game2Death

Member
Oct 25, 2017
157
To be honest, I don't get surprised with this kind of news anymore. If this is what the press finds, I wonder what a certain investigation is finding.
Yeah I'm not really surprised either. It's good that it out there. I always have small hope that someday something will happen from all this. He will just go crazy again and everyone will focus on that soon...
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,799
So Trump Jr was offered some oppo research of dirt on Hillary (which he rejected), not sure how that is any different (or worse?) than the oppo research(Trump dossier) that was paid for by the DNC? Both sides seem to be doing the same sort of thing.

Apparently you forget the discussion around the Veselnitskaya meeting when that originally broke. Candidates do opposition research on one another all the time. That's par for the course, and is not illegal. However, candidates cannot accept anything of value from foreign governments, so if Russia offered oppo research to Trump (something of value), and he took it, he is in violation of U.S. law.
 

MasterChumly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,903
So Trump Jr was offered some oppo research of dirt on Hillary (which he rejected), not sure how that is any different (or worse?) than the oppo research(Trump dossier) that was paid for by the DNC? Both sides seem to be doing the same sort of thing.
Joke post? One side paid a foreigner for research that they ultimately didn't use. The other side actively sought out information and potentially colluded with a foreign government. That said foreign government directly intervene in the election to support that candidate. Literally couldn't be farther apart
 

Beartruck

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,939
This is like watching a version of Oceans 11 performed by morons.
The 2nd Ocean's 11 movie starts with all of them immediately getting caught, and they were smart. This is more like staring at your kid standing next to a shattered cookie jar on the floor while his face is covered with crumbs and chocolate. Everyone knows what happened, they just need evidence.
 

pramod

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
508
Joke post? One side paid a foreigner for research that they ultimately didn't use. The other side actively sought out information and potentially colluded with a foreign government. That said foreign government directly intervene in the election to support that candidate. Literally couldn't be farther apart

Was it proven that the Russian lawyer was directed instructed by the Russian government? I thought she had her own separate motives for offering dirt on Hillary.
 

MasterChumly

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,903
Was it proven that the Russian lawyer was directed instructed by the Russian government? I thought she had her own separate motives for offering dirt on Hillary.
Did you read the thread? The Russian lawyer talked to Russians prosecutor general.

Can you please expand how both situations are the same?
 

BrassDragon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,154
The Netherlands
The interesting bit here is the paper trail connecting the Trump Tower meeting to the Kremlin... but I'm afraid that part is going to get snowed by the desperate attempt to smear the DNC and Clinton Foundation.

For years, Veselnitskaya was the point woman in the US to undermine the credibility of Bill Browder, champion of the Magnitsky Act (sanctions that cut a good part of Putin's inner circle off from their holdings overseas.) In the OP's memo, the Russians appear to be recycling a talking point from the anti-Magnitsky lobby, namely that Browder used Ziff Brothers assets to evade unspecified Russian tax laws - they've been harping on this for almost a decade to sabotage Browder's international lobbying and maybe even get him extradited. They put some topical spin on it by tying Ziff Brothers to the DNC but it's all just classic maskirovka, calculated noise to bury the real story.

I can see why the Russians are going with this approach but the strategy from Trumpland is mystifying: "There was no collusion, nor interference in the 2016 election, no wait, there was collusion but it involved Democrats, who lost the election, but now use this collusion to undermine the 45th US president, and all the evidence is false and the investigations aren't necessary and/or wrapping up but let's not forget how dirty Hilary Clinton was for working with the Russians and we will take no countermeasures to prevent further meddling in our upcoming elections."

Meanwhile, Tillerson has just dissolved the State Sanctions Office.