Pathfinder was crazy unfinished when launched, but they fixed fast and loose but it was playable after a few days now some people are just waiting on the big update to fix things in about 11 days
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Obsidian's Pillars of Eternity 2 sold like shit. (~110,000 sales)
- Thread starter shiftplusone
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I just played the first one and i thought it was really really boring and compared to the Divinity OS Games far too slow.
When you have someone in the basically same genre doing so much good content to make the game fun even for people that aren't hardcore Genre fans then you have a hard time if you bring the most sleep inducing games ever.
The Divinity Games also have a great Multiplayer Coop Mode and really good Mod Support which make their games far more interesting to those that usually aren't interested in such games.
When you have someone in the basically same genre doing so much good content to make the game fun even for people that aren't hardcore Genre fans then you have a hard time if you bring the most sleep inducing games ever.
The Divinity Games also have a great Multiplayer Coop Mode and really good Mod Support which make their games far more interesting to those that usually aren't interested in such games.
That's not really true at all. Divinity: Original Sin 2 has already outsold the first game and Pathfinder: Kingmaker, a new RPG from a new developer, topped the charts for a while.
No, PoE2 failed because of its setting. It's become increasingly evident that the majority of RPG players only want traditional, Euro-centric fantasy settings. There's a reason why Forgotten Realms is the most popular D&D setting and why Baldur's Gate massively outsold Planescape: Torment. When Risen 2 went full pirate, fans of the first game lost their shit. So much so that PB had to bring back a lot of traditional fantasy elements for Risen 3. We're seeing this disdain for pirates once again with PoE2.
Pathfinder: Kingmaker is a perfect example of how important setting is. By all accounts, PoE2 should have outsold Kingmaker. It has much better reviews, it has more marketing, it has much better writing, it's far more polished and it was developed by an established developer with a history of strong RPGs, However, Pathfinder has outperformed it. Why? Because it uses a traditional fantasy setting. If PoE3 ever gets made, I can guarantee they'll return to the traditional fantasy setting of the first game and that it will sell a lot better than PoE2.
Oh yeah, Tyranny's another good example. It was a good RPG with a really interesting premise, a deep faction system and plenty of meaningful choice and consequence. But it didn't have any orcs, elves, dwarves, dragons, etc, so it was doomed to fail.
Not really. They went for full voice acting and VO ain't cheap. $15-30 million budgets are pretty standard for AA games.
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I honestly totally forgot this game came out. I sort of thought it was still a ways off actually.
Oh god even Tyranny bombed? Smh.. it was such a good game. Guess my very tiny hopes of a sequel died in an instant.
Except that one that sold well on PC but eh to ok on console version
Good!
No seriously, PoE2 was worse than the first, not mechanically, but plot/characters wise , and PoE was already mediocre in that regard.
Eh... I wouldn't go that far but the audience for RTWP is definitely shrinking.
A combination of factors already discussed at length in this thread has culminated with the dissapointing sales numbers for PoE2 but there is still very much life in the genre as evidenced by other recent releases. Going forwards most of the games that do well in this genre will be small budget affairs, the audience simply isn't there (or large enough) to sustain multiple mid/big budget cRPG games that release at a similar time. For many people it was a choice of DOS2 or PoE2, and PoE2 got neglected with many people opting to wishlist it for a later date after they are finished with DOS2. Then Kingmaker released... you very much play these games one at a time.
As sad as it is I actually hope for their sake that they don't plan on making cRPG's going forwards if they are indeed being bought out by Microsoft. They won't last very long if they plan on doing so and the audience definitely isn't large enough on the platform(s)/storefronts they would potentially be restricted to. Making something akin to a Fallout:NV would give them a much better chance of success. I can actually see them co-developing any potential new Fable game with Playground and doing very well.
The Microsoft acquisition makes more and more sense. They've got talent but they need some stability and proper budgets, plus proper advertising at this point. A service like Game Pass will work like wonders, as suddenly all their games will be exposed to far more players than PoE2 had.
Dragon Age: Origins was still primarily designed around being on the PC and that sold millions.
Anyway this isn't surprising. There's been a small "boom" of CRPGs lately and Deadfire got stuck being after the bubble burst. Divinity OS 2 probably sated a lot of people's appetites for these sorts of games and it's not exactly a "special" thing to release one anymore. This probably would've sold more copies if it came out a year earlier than it did.
I really tried to like the first PoE but nothing about the plot or characters got me invested and I realized that while I might have found it passible as a teenager, I really don't like RTwP anymore.
So, SteamSpy estimates were right after all? https://www.resetera.com/threads/st...at-those-poe2-sales-obsidian-is-doomed.46181/ It's a damn shame, I enjoyed this game, but yeah, I can see why it didn't sell gangbusters
I liked it more than Kingmaker(D&D3.5 w/e is so boring now days) and a lot more than POE1 (most boring plot, lore and characters i've almost ever seen) POE2 improved on 1 so much imo.
But it still doesn't even deserve to be uttered in the same breath as Divinity Original Sin 2, nothing comes close in the crpg space imo.
But it still doesn't even deserve to be uttered in the same breath as Divinity Original Sin 2, nothing comes close in the crpg space imo.
For me it's the pirate thing along with my utter disappointment at the incompleteness of Tyranny that made me skip POE2.
I didn't want to risk another "ends at chapter 2 of 4".
I didn't want to risk another "ends at chapter 2 of 4".
the first PoE was one of the best games i've ever played but there's only so many crpgs i can handle. kind of a monkey's paw fulfillment now the genre is sort of in vogue again
feel shitty about passing up the second but i just now wrapped up Tyranny, yet to get started on Divinity OS2
feel shitty about passing up the second but i just now wrapped up Tyranny, yet to get started on Divinity OS2
eh one game is just worse than the other
Hoping this is a joke post. Either way stupid shit like this doesn't help anyone. Just cause you like one game more than another doesn't mean games you don't are shit and or shouldn't find success as well.
This kind of nonsense and rhetoric popped up in nearly every PoE vs DOS discussion did not help at all and is just way too prevalent in games discussions.
This is the case for a lot of games, which is why you see a lot of the above where people aren't happy to just enjoy a game but have this need to declare one game the winner and every other game like it shit and losers.
The same crap occurred with Dragon Age and The Witcher 3, despite those two game having even less in common than PoE and DOS. And it happens in every genre, difference here being the hardcore cRPG market, while maybe bigger than back in the day, still is very small and occupies a much smaller piece of the overall gaming mindshare than it once did.
between DOS2 PoE2 or Pathfinder Kingmaker, PoE2 is just worse and Pathfinder was almost equally broken and has a hated feature that is ignorable at least
A shame, it's a good game that I really liked. The main story was disappointing and short, but I did all the side content I could find and all the faction related stuff became the meat of the game for me. Overall it was a pretty good game. I can see how it's also very niche, the first half of the first game probably also put a lot of people off the franchise for good, being so dreadfully paced and needlessly verbose in all the wrong ways. The sequel is a much tighter written game where I never felt overloaded by tiresome words for the sake of having many words :p
Unfortunately Deadfire is just not very fun. The story got a huge downgrade from the first installment, in my opinion. That said, I'm still sad about such low sales.
To everyone disappointed by Deadfire: luckily there is Pathfinder: Kingmaker for you, which is better in almost every way (at least in my opinion). It's still a bit too buggy at the moment, so if you haven't started it yet it might make sense to wait for the 1.1 patch which is expected sometime next week.
Apparently, Kingmaker even already got better sales by now than Deadfire despite releasing quite a bit later in the year.
That's highly debatable. I personally think that Kingmaker has better writing. Also, the story in Kingmaker is massively better.
Which feature do you mean? If you meant the kingdom management, I have to strongly disagree with you. I had a lot of fun with it (on "Easy" kingdom difficulty, otherwise the RNG is just too punishing and not fun at all) despite some of its shortcomings; it's definitely leagues better than every other attempt at similar stuff in other CRPGs.
I strongly disagree. It was too buggy at release, true. But once you see through the bugs (most of them have already been fixed, by the way, and the remaining major ones are going to be fixed in the soon-to-be-released 1.1 patch) Kingmaker is a great game. Heck, I personally enjoyed it more than every other recent CPRG (including D:OS2 which I enjoyed a lot).
Tutorial and the first Chapter don't quite do justice to this game, it really opens up later on. I highly recommend giving it a try once the 1.1 patch is released.
To everyone disappointed by Deadfire: luckily there is Pathfinder: Kingmaker for you, which is better in almost every way (at least in my opinion). It's still a bit too buggy at the moment, so if you haven't started it yet it might make sense to wait for the 1.1 patch which is expected sometime next week.
Apparently, Kingmaker even already got better sales by now than Deadfire despite releasing quite a bit later in the year.
That's highly debatable. I personally think that Kingmaker has better writing. Also, the story in Kingmaker is massively better.
Which feature do you mean? If you meant the kingdom management, I have to strongly disagree with you. I had a lot of fun with it (on "Easy" kingdom difficulty, otherwise the RNG is just too punishing and not fun at all) despite some of its shortcomings; it's definitely leagues better than every other attempt at similar stuff in other CRPGs.
Definitely give it a try if you like CRPGs, once they roll out the 1.1 patch in a week or so.
From what I heard Kingmaker has already topped Deadfire sales, despite being released almost half a year later than Deadfire. And it's definitely not "just" another nuInfinity Engine game, it's actually the only game out of these recent CRPGs which really feels like a true and worthy BG2 successor to me.
I strongly disagree. It was too buggy at release, true. But once you see through the bugs (most of them have already been fixed, by the way, and the remaining major ones are going to be fixed in the soon-to-be-released 1.1 patch) Kingmaker is a great game. Heck, I personally enjoyed it more than every other recent CPRG (including D:OS2 which I enjoyed a lot).
Tutorial and the first Chapter don't quite do justice to this game, it really opens up later on. I highly recommend giving it a try once the 1.1 patch is released.
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He actually was one of the founders of Obsidian, and an iconic CRPG developer in his own right. He was the main mind behind Planescape: Torment, which is to this day counted as one of the best CRPGs ever made (and many people feel that it's the best from the story, writing and characters perspective). He also worked on Fallout 2, Icewind Dale, KotOR2, NWN2, New Vegas and PoE1.
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I notice a lot of people comparing poe2 to dos2? Why? They aren't the same genre of game, right? They share the same perspective, but that's.... Really about it? I'm looking at gameplay videos on YouTube for poe2 and uh... Yea that looks nothing like dos2? That gameplay flow is totally different.
Well, PoE1 and both Divinity:OS games sold massively better (PoE1 sold more than a million copies, D:OS1 also over a million and D:OS2 sold more than two million copies; and that's just counting Steam PC copies). Even Pathfinder: Kingmaker, a game released almost half a year later than Deadfire and which came from a new and unknown studio, has already sold more copies than PoE2. So yes, these sales figures for PoE2 are definitely disappointing.
Wow had no idea original PoE did more than a million. No idea what happened with 2nd, maybe came too soon?
I've seen similar or worse RPG comparisons before. Remember Witcher 3 vs. Dragon Age Inquisition? Or worse, Skyrim vs. Dark Souls?
They're both broadly CRPGs released within a year of one another, with one doing dramatically better. It's inevitable that people are going to look at them and think about why one succeeded and the other failed. D:OS2 is usually brought up in response to the whole 'CRPGs don't sell well anyway'/'Nobody cares about CRPGs' narrative.
The first game sold much more, even their smaller project Tyranny did better last year.
Oh yeah... Now that I think about it, Tyranny not being exactly awe-inducing in quality, content and scope probably didn't help Obsidian's case in selling gangbusters for PoE 2, as well.
Party-based RPGs with emphasis on combat and exploration, a custom main character and a pool of pre-made companions that can join your cause.
Not sure what makes you think they are THAT different in principle, aside for one being turn-based and the other being real-time-with-pause.
You do realize how much the first game sold in this timeframe, right?
I'd be interested in some data to back up these statements.
This is true, they really opened that first game throwing audiences into the deep end of the lore where the payoffs and mysteries come far, far later than where I imagine most players would struggle to even play long enough to reach. Baffling opening really that unnecessarily confounds and dulls any excitement of jumping into a grand adventure.
I loved the game, but even my patience was tested with the early hours.
The execution of the concepts differ, but they speak largely to the same audience.
Inxile doesn't have the best track record tbh.
Wasteland 2 sold fairly well but was still weaker than PoE1 amd D:OS1.
Torment on the other hand also sold really badly, but in that case the game was fairly mediocre and had a decent amount of negativity surrounding its launch because of all the cancelled content.
Wasteland 3 is defintiely gonna be the litmus test for them.
The first one is like at...1.2 million sales right now soooo yeah people were expecting better.
Yeah, people don't seem to remember that there was a time when a million seller was a massive success and most low-mid budget games sold in the hundred of thousands IF they were lucky.
The gaming market expanded massively since the late '90s/early 2000 and even niche genres now can reach far larger audience.
It's also a bit funny to notice people who say "Well, it's only on PC" when
1) the same applies to other far more successful titles
2) they seem under the impression that the big sales come when the console ports land, which is not the case at all for this genre. Most of these "old school RPGs" barely sold to the point of justifying the port in some cases. Sometimes not even that much.
I agree with you, but I think it's fair to consider whether they're more popular relatively. There's a larger potential audience on account of console versions and just more people playing games in general. I would have thought almost every genre is, in pure numbers, more popular now than they were 2000 (except RTS, probably). It'd be interesting if there was data to compare this, to save me from making uninformed 'ad-hoc' reckons.
But to be honest I don't think any of what I've said really matters, at the end of the day. As long as the genre can produce successful games (and it certainly can) then it's not going anywhere. They don't need to be AAA experiences targeting 10s of millions with make-or-break budgets.
oh i don't have a problem with Kingdom management from 1.06 patch onwards but that's the most common complain i've seen on PK
i'm playing Kingmaker at this very moment as i like it far better than I liked PoE2 before my game ending bug but not as much as DOS2 for which i put 400+ hrs into
I was gonna ask about this. Good to hear! Loved the first one, will buy the second one soon
That game has been a huge success for them. Board gamers have been supporting that game alot.