Ocasio-Cortez Currently Backs Pelosi, ‘Most Progressive Candidate,’ For Speaker

Autodidact

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,354
Pelosi also gave her a primo chair position on the newly restored Elections Subcommittee.

This is how you twist arms and do politics, folks.

Never underestimate someone who grew up in the Italian Baltimore Democratic machine.
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,031
Just because you learned a new term this year, doesn't mean you know how to apply it. But arm-chair internet """Leftists""" such as yourself are hilarious when you try.

You didn't bring receipts I see. Typical
Dear lord what. You asked me to show my work regarding who was flogging fiscal conservatism, and I explained that I wasn't stating that anyone in the thread was actively doing so. If you meant you wanted some examples of Pelosi's fiscal conservatism you should have said so. See below for my reply to a poster who actually has some grasp of the context, not just reflexive posturing.

I'm glad you found my post amusing, I had a good chuckle at your ridiculous strawman.
By using the definition of fiscal conservatism you're using, somebody like Jeremy Corbyn could be described as a fiscal conservative because he wants to raise taxes to pay for things, which is what Pelosi largely wants to do.

I mean, I get and even sympathize w/ MMT, but yeah...
I do think that Corbyn and McDonnell's proposed fiscal is a bad policy, but it is significantly less stringent/hawkish than pay-go. For one, it doesn't create any immediate policy/legislation imperatives. Also, the rolling average gives at least some wiggle room. As far as their public positions on deficits are concerned, I think there is a gap between the two. Corbyn and McDonnell regularly walk this bizarre line between decrying austerity, talking about getting a surplus in "normal" times off the "current" budget and saying that appearing to take the deficit seriously is important politically. Yes, they do sometimes lean into fiscal conservatism, but it's an open question as to how much they actually believe it. By contrast, Pelosi's position is pretty straightforward.

She had a friendship and working relationship with Pete Peterson and regularly praised his advocacy of fiscal "responsibility". For anyone familiar with Peterson and the sort of positions his institute advocates that really should say it all.
Note: I don't expect her to trash her late friend in a public statement on his passing. The point is more that they were friends and worked together because they shared a commitment to deficit reduction. She strongly believes that deficit reduction is a moral imperative:
And, as mentioned above, she champions policies such as pay-go and retaining supermajority requirements for income tax increases (albeit excluding the top 20% of earners), the practical effect of which would be to increase the support required to pass any significant expenditure initiatives.

If Pelosi's fiscal stance was the typical mainstream position I wouldn't have brought it up; I mentioned earlier in the thread that the only reason I even know enough about Pelosi to comment is because of her stance on fiscal positions being noteworthy in itself (which is partly because of her leadership role in a party that is more fiscally conservative than its international counterparts; pay-go for example has been around for quite a while). And once again, all of this is simply to point out that this is a stance that it should be perfectly reasonable to expect people on the left to oppose, not to suggest that it's grounds for Pelosi be replaced by the first person to put their hand up.

You don't understand. She paid lip service to PayGo because she knows we won't be able to pass any goodies for the next two years, and she totally stuck to it in 2009-11 when she passed a stimulus that all those ~~~Enlightened European~~~ countries didn't pass and a healthcare law.

Totally a fiscal conservative.
You folks do like your projected arguments, don't you. I'd be happy to rag all over the fiscal mess that is the Eurozone if that'd make you feel better about me calling Nancy Pelosi such a hideous slur. It's a whole big world out there, fiscal conservatism isn't solely the preserve of hypocrite tea partiers. For the record, I'm Australian, and in 2009-11 we also had a government that passed a big stimulus bill. Guess what our then Prime Minister described his stance on budgets as? (For bonus points, guess what happened when that government put the philosophy into action and tried to claw its way into surplus).
 
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JesseEwiak

Member
Oct 31, 2017
972
Again, not an expert on your political system but you are making a personal donation there. That seems fine to me. It is the allowing of corporations to donate as if they are a voter that makes me uneasy. Companies exist to make money. They have no personal investment beyond that so I would question any politician taking donations from a private company.
Except when people go "Hillary took eleventy billion dollars from Goldman Sachs," what they're talking about is FEC reports about donations from people who work at Goldman Sachs, not Goldman Sachs. Corporations still can't done directly to candidates in America...yet.
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,525
Pelosi also gave her a primo chair position on the newly restored Elections Subcommittee.

This is how you twist arms and do politics, folks.

Never underestimate someone who grew up in the Italian Baltimore Democratic machine.
"But I still want someone with a penis.... I mean someone with fresh blood to pass progressive agendas. Like those guys who are to the right of Pelosi on almost everything!!!"
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,645
Pelosi just needs to stop having a tin ear on how much the base wants to destroy the repub party. I want her coming out and saying shit like "Our number one goal is to ensure Trump is a one term president" like McConnell did and get away with it. Block every thing. Subpoena everything?

I never want to hear the word "bipartisan " ever again.
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,031
That's it? Decades of public service and all you can complain about is that she proposed fiscally responsible bills? Really? Talk about sad posturing.
Beyond your stupidly dismissive and reductive assessment, I don't think you actually get what my argument is. To reiterate, if you'd actually read my post: all of this is simply to point out that this is a stance that it should be perfectly reasonable to expect people on the left to oppose, not to suggest that it's grounds for Pelosi be replaced by the first person to put their hand up.

But for the record, "fiscal responsibilty" is a conservative sham and anyone who supports it is wrong and evil. I thought you'd be very aware of the contentious nature of this debate, given that you so confidently asserted that your knowledge of the field was superior to mine. Idk, maybe I just got a lot done this year after hearing the term fiscal conservatism for the first time.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,943
User Banned (3 days): Unnecessary hostility, trolling
But for the record, "fiscal responsibilty" is a conservative sham and anyone who supports it is wrong and evil.
Yeah, that's about what I thought. I am sorry I bothered engaging such an ignorant troll and his own personal dictionary. I am sure glad you idiots are too stupid to gain any real power, or even find a Pelosi alternative.
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,525
You aren't talking to anyone around here. Can this please stop.
Yep sure. What with wanting more conservative Dems to replace her as leader, falling for GOP talking points against her, and ignoring the fact that the progressives Dems back her, the reason she's getting opposition is surely NOT because she has a pussy but because she's not progressive enough.

Surely.

 

Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
Yep sure. What with wanting more conservative Dems to replace her as leader, falling for GOP talking points against her, and ignoring the fact that the progressives Dems back her, the reason she's getting opposition is surely NOT because she has a pussy but because she's not progressive enough.

Surely.

If you aren't going to read the actual posts and instead want to resort to Fox News style strawmanning, I have nothing else to say to you. I'm so tired of people like you getting away with insulting people in such intellectually dishonest fashion. No one is making these arguments or anything close to that.
Maybe someday you'll listen instead of contribute to accusations and all this cis and white washing nonsense.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,387
Brooklyn, NY
If you aren't going to read the actual posts and instead want to resort to Fox News style strawmanning, I have nothing else to say to you. I'm so tired of people like you getting away with insulting people in such intellectually dishonest fashion. No one is making these arguments or anything close to that.
Maybe someday you'll listen instead of contribute to accusations and all thus cis and white washing nonsense.
don't be afraid to use the ignore feature, helps a ton in these threads.

there's no left case for replacing Pelosi as speaker right now, since no one is running to her left, and there's a valid case to be made for Pelosi herself, but a lot of these people are never, ever going to engage any criticism of the Democratic Party in good faith and there's nothing you can say to argue them into doing so
 
Nov 14, 2017
1,031
Yeah, that's about what I thought. I am sorry I bothered engaging such an ignorant troll and his own personal dictionary. I am sure glad you idiots are too stupid to gain any real power, or even find a Pelosi alternative.
You may be an utterly bizarre individual who I surely hope has a better grip on things in their day to day interactions than they do online, but to give you credit, you saw through my devious troll act of repeatedly explaining a very simple point based on an established intellectual current to some rather rude people who would rather construct straw opponents or assume an unstated position than honestly engage and you did a good job on reading the very sincere use of hyperbole in a conversation that you ratcheted up. Also, good on you for coming out in defense of "fiscal responsibility"! You'll find yourself in plentiful company.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,993
Pelosi just needs to stop having a tin ear on how much the base wants to destroy the repub party. I want her coming out and saying shit like "Our number one goal is to ensure Trump is a one term president" like McConnell did and get away with it. Block every thing. Subpoena everything?

I never want to hear the word "bipartisan " ever again.
Prior to the letter's release it appeared she might need to go to the Problem Solvers caucus to make up for the missing Dem votes. She was aware this could be an issue prior to election day, and virtually everything she's said on that front since the election appears to have been meant for 2 audiences: the 24 GOP members of that Caucus, and Moulton/Ryan's blue dog crew. Steny Hoyer and other members of Dem leadership had already agreed to the changes proposed by the PS crew in full, she had not. (I believe some of the costless ones were already basically done.) This put pressure on the Blue Dog Crew to play ball, which they ended up doing. Reporters were hearing 18-22 names on the finale letter. It ended up being 16, which is still enough to get Pelosi elected on the first vote with a 0-2 vote margin.

She played Bipartisanship Chicken with the Blue Dogs and the Blue Dogs blinked.
If she really did save America in 2008 and 2010, why she still get the heat from the left? Where did this exactly stem from?
Because a lot of people weren't old enough to pay attention to politics in '08/'10 who are talking about things now and have to be taught her history, because a lot of people grew up under conservative parents who watched Fox News and internalized the propaganda, and because some people who are on the far fringes will never be happy with anything because their preferred policy outcomes would never get 51% of a vote even in the biggest of Dem wave years that included a nuked fillibuster and President Orcasio Cortez.
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,525
If you aren't going to read the actual posts and instead want to resort to Fox News style strawmanning, I have nothing else to say to you. I'm so tired of people like you getting away with insulting people in such intellectually dishonest fashion. No one is making these arguments or anything close to that.
Maybe someday you'll listen instead of contribute to accusations and all this cis and white washing nonsense.
LOL I never said anything about white people. Who's the intellectually dishonest one around here?

But fine then, precious, let's play:

I want something more. Something truly leftist in this country. Incremental steps are a death knell. As is giving even an inch to fascists.
I and others have issue with this and we're implied to be sexist cis white dudes. So not only are we not listened to. Many experience white washing, cis washing, assumptions on gender or a mix. And your response is grow up when I mention being annoyed with this. Hah. Alrighty then.
This is a juvenile thought process. You can't just go all on and uproot the system in a few days. It's fucking impossible. You think unions just sprouted out of thin air one day? The abolishment of Jim Crow? Gay rights? All this stuff

Do you have any idea how you sound when you talk down to minorities who have to suffer through the incremental bullshit because centrists are comfortable taking their sweet ass time in even acknowledging us?
Oh I'm sorry, you think it's only the centrists who would ignore minorities if given the chance?



The left have been throwing minorities under the bus with the best of them for a long ass while. Reconstruction? Dead so that northern whites and southern whites can get along again. The New Deal? Had to exclude minorities to pass. Unions? Same shit, different day. Bernie "Totally a Progressive" Sanders? He practically chews on his own foot when he talks about racial issues. Hey remember recently when the progressive Democrats pushed dealing with ICE as a lower priority because lol? It was like what a few days ago? lol

And at the end of the day, I'm not sorry that I don't take you seriously. You didn't even mention concrete things Pelosi did that shows that she's a centrist. Why aren't you raging at Schumer? Why aren't are you raging at Pelosi's conservative opponents? Hell, AOC showed sympathy for McCain when he died. Saying he inspired her. Where's the rage against her. Fuck I can probably name more issues I have with Pelosi in better detail because lol I don't fall for Fox News talking points against Democratic women.

It's just a shame that the vilification campaign they've done has worked beyond just the GOP faithful. People have to wake up.
"But I just can't find Pelosi trustworthy. I won't say why or explain it ever. But I just can't!!!!!"
 
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Novel

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,933
LOL I never said anything about white people. Who's the intellectually dishonest one around here?

But fine then, precious, let's play:



This is a juvenile thought process. You can't just go all on and uproot the system in a few days. It's fucking impossible. You think unions just sprouted out of thin air one day? The abolishment of Jim Crow? Gay rights? All this stuff



Oh I'm sorry, you think it's only the centrists who would ignore minorities if given the chance?



The left have been throwing minorities under the bus with the best of them for a long ass while. Reconstruction? Dead so that northern whites and southern whites can get along again. The New Deal? Had to exclude minorities to pass. Unions? Same shit, different day. Bernie "Totally a Progressive" Sanders? He practically chews on his own foot when he talks about racial issues. Hey remember recently when the progressive Democrats pushed dealing with ICE as a lower priority because lol? It was like what a few days ago? lol

And at the end of the day, I'm not sorry that I don't take you seriously. You didn't even mention concrete things Pelosi did that shows that she's a centrist. Why aren't you raging at Schumer? Why aren't are you raging at Pelosi's conservative opponents? Hell, AOC showed sympathy for McCain when he died. Saying he inspired her. Where's the rage agasint her. Fuck I can probably name more issues I have with Pelosi in better detail because lol I don't fall for Fox News talking points against Democratic women.
I'm referring to you and the crowd you fall into with the white and cis washing.

As for the rest of your post. All I see is purposeful misunderstanding, outright not even reading my posts at many points, more strawmanning taken from the right wing, projection, personal insults,more intellectual dishonestly, assumptions on my views, accusing me of liking schumer or blue dogs when I don't thereby continuing your inane argument I am somehow driven by sexism, etc. Etc.

I don't need this. Have a good life.
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,249
don't be afraid to use the ignore feature, helps a ton in these threads.

there's no left case for replacing Pelosi as speaker right now, since no one is running to her left, and there's a valid case to be made for Pelosi herself, but a lot of these people are never, ever going to engage any criticism of the Democratic Party in good faith and there's nothing you can say to argue them into doing so
As opposed to people parroting Fox News talking points.

Or holding evershifting, infinitely variable goalposts for what it means to be leftist or progressive.

At the standard being set here, not even new progressive Darling AOC fulfills all the requirements that are being asked of Pelosi. Literally according to the demands set, no one is qualified to be a Progressive and Leftist Speaker.

but apparently that is arguing in good faith. A requirements list that gets more strict as people’s arguments get debunked.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,598
If she really did save America in 2008 and 2010, why she still get the heat from the left? Where did this exactly stem from?
2008 was ten years ago.

there's no left case for replacing Pelosi as speaker right now, since no one is running to her left, and there's a valid case to be made for Pelosi herself, but a lot of these people are never, ever going to engage any criticism of the Democratic Party in good faith and there's nothing you can say to argue them into doing so
I dunno I think maybe the problem with a bunch of the criticisms is that they're stupid and wrong, we should try some criticisms that aren't stupid and wrong and see how that goes
 

NoName999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,525
User Warned: Inflammatory generalizations
As opposed to people parroting Fox News talking points.

Or holding evershifting, infinitely variable goalposts for what it means to be leftist or progressive.

At the standard being set here, not even new progressive Darling AOC fulfills all the requirements that are being asked of Pelosi.

but apparently that is arguing in good faith. A requirements list that gets more strict as people’s arguments get debunked.
"AOC (why aren't we spelling out her last name lol) should be the Speaker of the House. And five days later, when nothing's change, we'll call her a centrist bitch and demand even newer blood for the Democratic Party. But we're not totally falling for talking points from Fox News and playing right into their hands"

It's the circle of baby's first liberalism

*snarks chant in Swahili*
 

thepotatoman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,847
Denver
AOC isn't equivelent to Pelosi in progressivism at all. AOC isn't pushing for Paygo and a super majority for tax hike rule which combine would basically ensure progressive legislation can never happen going forward, and making it awkward for a future progressive leader to remove those rules to get anything done.

AOC is just pointing out that Pelosi is the least of the available evils right now, which is true.

It's not purity politics to say that Pelosi is pretty damn centrist in effect given the rules she wants to put in place.
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,598
AOC isn't equivelent to Pelosi in progressivism at all. AOC isn't pushing for Paygo and a super majority for tax hike rule which combine would basically ensure progressive legislation can never happen going forward, and making it awkward for a future progressive leader to remove those rules to get anything done.

AOC is just pointing out that Pelosi is the least of the available evils right now, which is true.
Paygo and the tax hike supermajority are both extremely dumb ideas that I really hope Pelosi will not succeed in advancing. Call your reps and tell them not to support them!
 

Armaros

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,249
AOC isn't equivelent to Pelosi in progressivism at all. AOC isn't pushing for Paygo and a super majority for tax hike rule which combine would basically ensure progressive legislation can never happen going forward, and making it awkward for a future progressive leader to remove those rules to get anything done.

AOC is just pointing out that Pelosi is the least of the available evils right now, which is true.

It's not purity politics to say that Pelosi is pretty damn centrist in effect given the rules she wants to put in place.
Repeating something because you believe it doesn’t make it true.

Pelosi is not centrist by any matter of the definiton.
 

Helio

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,290
As opposed to people parroting Fox News talking points.

Or holding evershifting, infinitely variable goalposts for what it means to be leftist or progressive.

At the standard being set here, not even new progressive Darling AOC fulfills all the requirements that are being asked of Pelosi. Literally according to the demands set, no one is qualified to be a Progressive and Leftist Speaker.

but apparently that is arguing in good faith. A requirements list that gets more strict as people’s arguments get debunked.
Pelosi is more progressive than a lot of Dems, however has voted for some bad shit such as the Patriot Act, voting and whipping for the rejection of an amendment that would curtail some of the NSAs power, and being quite alright with Trumps Syria strikes; her problem with those being that he didn’t come to congress for permission first. Additionally, she supports a fascist state and opposes BDS efforts.
It's the circle of baby's first liberalism
liberalism is indeed a disease
 

pigeon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,598
well yeah, we already know that you think every leftist other than yourself is stupid and wrong and also racist and sexist, that's been your whole shtick for years now
I dunno I think maybe the problem with a bunch of the leftists is that they're stupid and wrong, we should try some leftists that aren't stupid and wrong and see how that goes
 
Nov 20, 2017
2,602
Gender and race stronger predictors of Pelosi support, not ideology:


Overall Dem support for Pelosi as Speaker is 53/27, which is a pretty siginificant majority. The differences by ideology -

Very liberal 54/27 (+27)
Somewhat liberal 51/22 (+29)
Moderate/conservative 54/29 (+25)

BUT:

Male 50/32 (+18)
Female 55/23 (+32)

Whites 49/30 (+19)
Nonwhites 60/22 (+38)
 

Pomerlaw

Member
Feb 25, 2018
2,738
Yep sure. What with wanting more conservative Dems to replace her as leader, falling for GOP talking points against her, and ignoring the fact that the progressives Dems back her, the reason she's getting opposition is surely NOT because she has a pussy but because she's not progressive enough.

Surely.

I can't stop looking at that.
 

lmcfigs

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
6,882
I dunno I think maybe the problem with a bunch of the leftists is that they're stupid and wrong, we should try some leftists that aren't stupid and wrong and see how that goes
Part of the problem is that a lot of people's ideas of what the left is, includes people like Nancy Pelosi. In which case, we aren't even on the same page.
 

Mcfrank

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,450
Gender and race stronger predictors of Pelosi support, not ideology:


Overall Dem support for Pelosi as Speaker is 53/27, which is a pretty siginificant majority. The differences by ideology -

Very liberal 54/27 (+27)
Somewhat liberal 51/22 (+29)
Moderate/conservative 54/29 (+25)

BUT:

Male 50/32 (+18)
Female 55/23 (+32)

Whites 49/30 (+19)
Nonwhites 60/22 (+38)
White men are the worst.
 

Bonafide

Member
Oct 11, 2018
397
Nancy being challeneged from the right doesn't make her a leftist. Sadly she's the best we got for now.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,782
Ann Arbor, MI
I honestly cant think of a single reason why a progressive wouldn't want Pelosi as speaker. Thank god the conservative democrats look to be losing their dumb attempt to beat her.

Nancy being challeneged from the right doesn't make her a leftist. Sadly she's the best we got for now.
She is consistently one of the most progressive democrats in elected office in the entire country in her voting record.
 

Bandage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,050
The Internet
Decades of Fox news and conservative rhetoric are the only reason people "hate" Nancy.
She knows how to play the game better than any other Democrate in office and does amazing work with what little she is given.
 

Cheebo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,782
Ann Arbor, MI
She also voted for the Patriot Act and supports a fascist apartheid state and opposes BDS

take that liberals
The fact you can only name 3 things in her 30+ years of being in the house shows how hilariously sad the attempt to claim she isn't liberal is. She has one of the most progressive voting records of ANYONE in the country.