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Deleted member 419

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Oct 25, 2017
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I don't know if there's a protocol for making spoiler threads like there is for OTs. Mods feel free to lock this for that or any other reason I didn't think of.

The game's only been out for a week and some change, but several people I know have beaten the game and I'm assuming many others have as well. So I'd like to have a place on ERA to discuss the game in its entirety, without any concern about spoilers and such. This is a very spoilery game, for instance it appears at first glance that Alfyn and Tressa's stories have little to do with the "main plot" (inasmuch as the main plot is even apparent for the majority of the game). In reality, it's quite the contrary; because both of those stories deal directly with Graham Crossford, they're arguably the most central to understanding the overarching narrative and how all the chess pieces have come together to finally give Lyblac a shot at reviving Galdera.

So I'll start it off with the elephant in the room, which is the bait and switch (in my opinion a masterful one) between seeming like a game about loosely-connected character stories, but in reality being a legitimate, full-blown "save the world from dark god" JRPG filtered through the lens of character vignettes. I just love the way that these seemingly innocuous connections between the stories, as well as the recurring names/characters like Crossford, Hornsburg, Gate of Finis, etc., are easily missable or can be ignored - and end up being critically important later on. I thought even the way you access the final dungeon was awesome; what starts off as this filler fetch quest sidequest to help Kit, and spends a lot of time mucking around as a generic questline helping him fit into a group of actors and such, ends up ramping up into this colossal beast of a sidequest that, well, ends up not being a sidequest at all - it's the main quest, and at the end of this filler questline is the true final boss and the true ending of the game.

That, in and of itself, is something that I think Octopath should be commended for. It's not simply a "twist"; it's a deliberate setup that feeds back into the themes of everyone having their own story, everyone having their own journey in which other characters, who may or may not be cosmically important in the big scheme of things, play insignificant roles. Octopath Traveler is Kit's story. Kit is the JRPG protagonist, going on a search for his father; finding a party to travel with; and so forth. Kit is the one who meets his parents again at the end, and is the chosen one from an illustrious bloodline. The eight stories we play through aren't the center at all; they orbit around this other, seemingly innocuous center, and it's not until the incredible revelations in the final dungeon that everything comes together and we realize that a literal apocalypse was brewing right under our noses. Then, in one of the most awesome implementations I've seen of the very traditional "power of friendship" themes, we come together as eight travelers, only tangentially related to Kit in any way, to save him from the utter destruction that he would've faced if he was alone. In my opinion it's a pretty bold subversion, not just of our expectations, but of JRPG conventions in general.

Another facet of this is Lyblac herself. It was quite clear from several of the eight stories that there is some kind of shadowy, sinister group orchestrating a lot of events. But the really interesting part is that, generally speaking, none of these villains of the eight character stories are currently involved with Lyblac. The eight stories are effectively sidestories dealing with the individuals and situations previously affected by Lyblac's involvement; however, at the moment, Lyblac isn't helping any of them, and is instead in the final phases of searching for Kit and bringing him to Hornburg. It was a really satisfying feeling for me to see these bizarre loose ends morph into these sinister plot threads that eventually come to a head in a battle where the stakes are absurdly high.

I'll post about other aspects of the game more, but for the moment I'm curious what you all thought of the plot as a whole (or any individual part of it, such as any self-contained character story), or any other spoilery aspect of the game.
 

Laie

Member
Jul 20, 2018
77
Still gathering my thoughts, but one big so to say "gripe" I have after the Gate, is that Alfyn (or even Tressa) is probably the one who should be fighting alongside H'aanit against Redeye after all...
I enjoyed the story structure for what it is, but can't refrain from imagining the potential strength of the plot if we got those interactions actually represented within the game, maybe something like Odin Sphere where the progression of each story is more restricted for later reveals, or normal ending vs true ending structure like typical visual novel games.

Also adding to op's observation, it's worth noting that from one of the famitsu interviews, during early development of the game they spent almost a year setting up a typical jrpg overarching plot and several main characters, but then decided to scrap all of those and went with the direction they have now, by their own words more "roleplay-ish and tabletop style". I was also surprised when I learnt from that interview that Tressa, Alfyn and Primrose's stories are written by the same guy from Square Enix, while other characters are written by the people from a Japanese trpg company (F.E.A.R) in collaboration with SE.

Another thing I've noticed is the game's obsession with themes like disease, growing old and death, as well as the resulting sorrow of departure and struggle of accepting the lost of those dearest to you. These are constantly presented not only in quests or plot but also description text of npcs, they oftentimes settle upon a bittersweet resolution that whether happy or sorrowful, it's just a certain phase of one's life, and life goes on, so does the world everyone dwells in.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
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I enjoyed the story structure for what it is, but can't refrain from imagining the potential strength of the plot if we got those interactions actually represented within the game, maybe something like Odin Sphere where the progression of each story is more restricted for later reveals, or normal ending vs true ending structure like typical visual novel games.
I think for how many new ideas the game brings to the table and executes well (especially for a first entry in the series), I can forgive if there aren't as many interactions like this, at least this time. People made a big deal out of the other party members disappearing in cutscenes, but it's not that they disappear - everyone disappears, including other NPCs. It's clear that a big reason for a lot of things like that is budget/limiting scope for project management objectives. I'm totally cool with that, but I hope these are things that they expand upon in (the hopefully inevitable) Octopath Traveler 2.
Another thing I've noticed is the game's obsession with themes like disease, growing old and death, as well as the resulting sorrow of departure and struggle of accepting the lost of those dearest to you. These are constantly presented not only in quests or plot but also description text of npcs, they oftentimes settle upon a bittersweet resolution that whether happy or sorrowful, it's just a certain phase of one's life, and life goes on, so does the world everyone dwells in.
This is an interesting observation. A lot of the stories did have these undercurrents of disease and death. Even setting those themes aside, a lot of NPCs just had bizarrely tragic backstories. One thing I really loved about the game is how idyllic a town looked at first glance, with NPCs saying all the usual JRPG NPC lines, but then after Scrutinizing them you discover how much heartbreak, dislocation, disease, warfare, etc. was in their backstory.

Another theme that popped up quite often, and was very interesting, was post-war society. A lot of NPCs were mercenaries, families of soldiers, etc. who were affected in some way by the war that devastated Hornburg. It was interesting seeing all the mercenaries from that war, now unemployed, aimlessly idling around and occasionally causing trouble. It fed into another strength the game has: it does a really good job of showing the repercussions of events across the land, in both big cities and little rustic towns, and showing how things that happen affect different places in very different ways.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,158
I truly appreciate the story being mostly hidden until the very end. While I haven't actually seen the ending (seriously fuck that final boss) it's definitely a unique twist to the game. I appreciate the subtle hints at the end of each character's chapter or even the reveals like Redeye likely being Graham after being turned into a monster hence why H'annit couldn't sense his heart like other beasts.

I expected them to gather together for a final chapter but I did not expect it to be this interwoven so well. It's a beautiful way of thinking about it how two seemingly random NPC are actually the true protagonist and antagonist. Brilliant twist. That alone bumped it up from 9/10 to 10/10.

The actual final boss and the boss rush with no saves bumped it back down to 8/10. Seriously a really disappointing way to cripple the game's ending. Every other boss is pathetically easy but the final boss is still challenging as hell. A simple save point (and the ability to leave) would have made this a 10/10 experience for me.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
Octopath has fun with its lore but honestly it's pretty weak in the narrative department.
I think everyone has already memed Therion to death but outside specifics I think the 4 chapter structure for all stories was a huge detriment I felt in regards to building any tension. Too often does the narrative structure betray things that are probably meant to be reveals.

What helps out against the constraints of its narrative framework and flawed execution is generally having good core concepts and proper arcs for each character.
Each undergoes a personal struggle and comes out learning something, this is very basic but given we had other games that don't even manage to do this it's worth mentioning/lowkey praise.

The banter is cute but honestly so extremely out of place with how the game frames everything it's just impossible to not think about how the game doesn't really give you anything in the way of explaining why these people have anything to do with each other. I honestly think there was a way to be more elegant in the framing while keeping the cool freedom the game wants to provide players.

Galdera as the glue binding it all together I guess is pretty classic in a way but I wish there was a more thematically cohesive underpinning present in all the stories.
Something like having temptation be Galdera's thing instead of life and death. It would have fit more into the whole noble/rogue path action thing and they could have gotten cute with it playing with the grays in the stories themselves as well as sidestories about how noble motivations tempted in the wrong way can be disastrous the same as rogue actions being done free of egocentric temptation but for utilitarian ends could carry more positive outcomes. I feel the moral spectrum would be more varied that way and given it all a more unified feel instead of it just ending up being a cute extra.

Best turn based combat in forever though.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 419

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Oct 25, 2017
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like Redeye likely being Graham
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought this. It's not expressly stated in the game as far as I know, but I think it's the only interpretation that works with the structure of the game, because if Graham isn't Redeye then H'annit's story is the only one that doesn't involve the broader Galdera/Lyblac main plot. So it kind of has to be Graham, which is an awesome twist in retrospect.
The actual final boss and the boss rush with no saves bumped it back down to 8/10. Seriously a really disappointing way to cripple the game's ending. Every other boss is pathetically easy but the final boss is still challenging as hell. A simple save point (and the ability to leave) would have made this a 10/10 experience for me.
I wiped after an hour and a half of fighting on my first Galdera attempt and was considering bumping the score down as well, seriously what the fuck guys. There is NO reason not to put a save point after the boss rush, or at least allow you to go back and save outside the gate. I would've even been fine with a temporary autosave that allowed you to attempt the boss again without actually overwriting your save file.

That being said, the game does so much so well that I'm willing to forgive one debacle towards the end, especially because it's not a narrative fuck-up or something that retroactively makes other parts of the game worse. It's just a bizarre and ill-advised design decision isolated to that particular dungeon.
What helps out against the constraints of its narrative framework and flawed execution is generally having good core concepts and proper arcs for each character.
Each undergoes a personal struggle and comes out learning something, this is very basic but given we had other games that don't even manage to do this it's worth mentioning/lowkey praise.
I think ultimately that's the strongest component of Octopath's narrative: it's very thematic. Even the pitch for the characters themselves are thematic - "A former knight who failed to protect his king and now seeks revenge on the king's killer, while wondering what he even fights for anymore." There is a lot of thematically heavy material to parse just from that concept, not just revenge, but also how to recover from a crushing failure and what to do when one can no longer fulfill the "purpose" they've chosen for themselves. Compare this to, say "Chrono wakes up on the day of the Millennial Fair and goes to check it out," or any other run-of-the-mill JRPG protagonist (not necessarily singling Chrono Trigger out, just using it as an example). The characters in Octopath, even when the writing itself doesn't fully execute on the ideas, are inherently interesting characters.

But yea, there definitely are some execution issues. Primrose in particular I think they reached a bit too far with thematic ambition and couldn't quite pull it off. It seemed like they wanted to specifically frame her story as a dramatic tragedy, this was apparent not just from Simeon's theatrics but also from the text that popped up occasionally in a stage direction-way, which didn't happen in any of the other stories; like they had this idea for a grand revenge story contextualized as a stage play, with her "breaking out" of the role that she had been cast in and finding her happiness (alternatively, being so obsessed that she recognizes the dramatic nature of the role she's been given but embraces it anyway because she's so resentful towards her father's killers). But somewhere along the line, that very ambitious framework lost the plot a bit and just ended up being kind of...weird.

Alfyn was my favorite of the eight stories, by the way. Just really fantastically written compared to the usual genre fare, great theme and concept that is fairly unique for the genre, good characters with good dialogue bouncing off of each other (particularly Ogen).

For the eight main stories I'd probably go Alfyn > Olberic > H'annit > Tressa > > Cyrus > Primrose > Therion > Ophelia. Ophelia's I felt kind of lost the plot midway through, and even then ended up being fairly generic.
Best turn based combat in forever though.
And yea this is also true, probably my favorite turn-based combat outside SMT.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
I actually like the no savepoint thing. I relish in the pain and bullshittery(it totally is) of going in with 0 information making it to the end getting fucked and having to do it all over. Makes me take the theory setup crafting more seriously for the second attempt.

I think my favorite is just Olberic mostly because the world really shined through in that story. I said this in the OT but something about a character that has a reputation in the world grounds them in a really compelling way for me. Alfyns quandary was def one of the strongest in the game although I was a bit disappointed in the solution.
I think the moral sentiment of Alfyn was right but after considering Ogens point for a moment it totally skipped over it in its resolution because man Ogen also has a point.

I think the better lesson that should have shined through is that Alfyn helps everyone but also becomes far more savvy about the how he helps everyone. This would have acknowledged Ogen's own mirror story in a better way.
Like the concrete example would be him treating Miguel the next time while delivering him to the guards because while yes it is not for him to play god and decide who dies and lives through his help he can grow far more savvy by being as observant as Ogen and make more informed decisions for better outcomes.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,090
I finished the eight stories (and just about every side quest) yesterday and have the Ruins of Hornburg unlocked. Haven't gone through the boss rush yet but will probably do so soon. How leveled should everybody be?

As for how I'd rank the stories: Tressa > Alfyn > Olberic > H'aanit >> Primrose > Cyrus > Therion >> Ophilia. Ranking the top four of that list is hard because I loved them so much, but I have to give the big win to Tressa. Her chapter 2 was a little weak, but everything else was golden. The Leon flashbacks in chapter 3 were so good, and the ending with Noa was so very heartwarming. It's a shame about Ophilia's story, because all throughout it was just so much weaker than everything else. I was no fan of Therion's hunt for McGuffins, but at least his story had some very interesting characters. Ophilia had none of that.
 

Laie

Member
Jul 20, 2018
77
Another theme that popped up quite often, and was very interesting, was post-war society. A lot of NPCs were mercenaries, families of soldiers, etc. who were affected in some way by the war that devastated Hornburg. It was interesting seeing all the mercenaries from that war, now unemployed, aimlessly idling around and occasionally causing trouble. It fed into another strength the game has: it does a really good job of showing the repercussions of events across the land, in both big cities and little rustic towns, and showing how things that happen affect different places in very different ways.

Now that you mentinoned it, the post war stuff did also play a major role in the world building, I think I wouldn't like the game near as much as i am now without the scrutinize mechanics, it carries a certain charm like the old fallout games' text description, hope they would explore this idea more in upcoming games
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
I really love how the post-game area is the cutscene area from literally the first demo of the game almost a month ago. I adored the game, and still have a lot more content to go after finishing all 8. I don't particularly mind having endgame content that really pushes all of the systems to the limit-- I had assumed the game would be too easy based on the demo given how busted so many things were, but I was happily quite wrong about that.



I finished the eight stories (and just about every side quest) yesterday and have the Ruins of Hornburg unlocked. Haven't gone through the boss rush yet but will probably do so soon. How leveled should everybody be?

As for how I'd rank the stories: Tressa > Alfyn > Olberic > H'aanit >> Primrose > Cyrus > Therion >> Ophilia. Ranking the top four of that list is hard because I loved them so much, but I have to give the big win to Tressa. Her chapter 2 was a little weak, but everything else was golden. The Leon flashbacks in chapter 3 were so good, and the ending with Noa was so very heartwarming. It's a shame about Ophilia's story, because all throughout it was just so much weaker than everything else. I was no fan of Therion's hunt for McGuffins, but at least his story had some very interesting characters. Ophilia had none of that.

Don't worry about level yet, as you should worry about doing sidequests and decking out all 8 party members. How many of the "epilogues" have you done with the plot NPCs?

You can also go in, kill a boss, and get the giant related plot dump, even if you'll have to rekill that boss like a dozen hours from now when you're ready.
 

The Dink

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,056
Woo! I'll have to revisit this thread later to post my thoughts. For now I'll just rank how I felt about the characters' stories by chapters:

Chapter 1:
Primrose > Olberic = Tressa > Alfyn = Cyrus = H'aanit = Therion > Ophilia

Chapter 2:
Olberic > Primrose = Tressa > Alfyn = Cyrus = H'aanit = Therion > Ophilia

Chapter 3:
H'aanit > Olberic = Therion > Alfyn = Tressa > Cyrus >> Ophilia = Primrose

Chapter 4:
H'aanit > Olberic = Therion = Tressa > Alfyn = Cyrus >>>> Ophilia = Primrose
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
My order is almost completely different that most of you all's, other than dumping Ophilia at the bottom of C1 and C2, and Olberic at the top of C2.

Yeah, I haven't done the final final content yet, but it seems like if you're really decked out for the last fight, the boss rush part only makes the overall sequence only like 30% longer?
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,090
I really love how the post-game area is the cutscene area from literally the first demo of the game almost a month ago. I adored the game, and still have a lot more content to go after finishing all 8. I don't particularly mind having endgame content that really pushes all of the systems to the limit-- I had assumed the game would be too easy based on the demo given how busted so many things were, but I was happily quite wrong about that.





Don't worry about level yet, as you should worry about doing sidequests and decking out all 8 party members. How many of the "epilogues" have you done with the plot NPCs?

You can also go in, kill a boss, and get the giant related plot dump, even if you'll have to rekill that boss like a dozen hours from now when you're ready.

Yeah, I've done probably every side quest and unlocked + leveled the advanced jobs on four characters. There's not much left to do other than finish the end bosses and my understanding is that I'll need my B-team ready so I want to get them up to snuff.
 

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
25,940
Tbilisi, Georgia
Three chapters into Olberic's story, I gotta I was really digging where they had taken his whole revenge/self-searching story.

It was so goddamn refreshing to have Erhardt as an antagonist. Not only did he have reasons to do what he did, but he also had not done a single villainous thing since then, in fact he had been a hero to people. He doesn't have a shred of enmity towards the hero when the latter finds him. Not only that, but we find out that he had been suffering from the same crippling sense of being purposeless as Olberic himself.

Erhardt isn't just your typical villain who's actually tragic because of a sad backstory, but someone who's genuinely not even a villain. Just someone who has bad blood with the protagonist.

It was also very human of Olberic to carry on with their conflict regardless. I haven't finished the final cutscene, so I hope there's a good explanation for why Olberic ultimately spared him.

All in all , this was going to places I really liked, so it's ultimately goddamn annoying they had to pull out a truly evil villain figure out of nowhere for Olberic to go after in chapter 4.

Meeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh.

Erhardt should've been the end of Olberic's story.

Still positive overall though.

Speaking of his story, developers should look back on his chapter 2 when coming up with chapters in the next game. These kinds of set pieces is what would alleviate the monotony complaints very easily.

Edit: It wasn't explained.
 
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Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
I've been thinking a lot about why Octopath is such a good turn based system and what it does to make it feel so satisfying, after all it does a lot of things that have been done before and many of its aspects on its own don't seem that special.

I think it really just comes down to the break system and how everything play off of it. The way how bosses that are broken recover with higher break shields and other effects that make them stronger like summoning even more adds and the way how after a break they will immediately take all their turns which can be 3 actions at once... basically octopath creates enough threat occurring after a break, while it also make the break insanely significant when it comes to capitalizing on a dmg opportunity.
This creates this ebb and flow of working towards a break and bracing yourself for it ending.

This set pace makes it really enjoyable to think about your actions and future actions in little phase packets where you basically always think up towards creating the break and the followup and then think about surviving and then think again about creating another.
More turn based JRPGs really should think about this concept of how to infuse their games with a pace and enemy design that forces people to think at least this much about what to do. Combat wise Octopath just made it clear to me again that the turn based space still has a lot of things left to be explored especially when it just comes to refining things.
 

donkey

Sumo Digital Dev
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,851
Beat the final boss last night after my first try was in shambles the other day. Feels good, man.

I just think it's wild how players can never see the post-game if they don't do the side quests, but it's such an awesome pay-off having everything fit in such a subtle way versus the usual hamfisting of plot in other games.

Also, the way the path actions get you involved with the world and the substance each NPC provided was an absolute treat. Awesome stuff, especially with the characterization as well.

And god bless Runelord Tressa for saving my ass on the second form of Galdera.

EDIT: An absolute thumbs up to the battle system as well. One of the most exciting I've played in a long time. The ebb and flow mentioned above is a great way of describing what made it great.
 
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OP
OP

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
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Oct 25, 2017
3,009
The Leon flashbacks in chapter 3 were so good, and the ending with Noa was so very heartwarming.
I think this was the crux of what I really enjoyed about not just Tressa's story, but also Olberic's and Alfyn's: I felt like the supporting cast was strong. These stories belong to Tressa, Olberic, and Alfyn, definitely, but at the same time you had Leon, Erhardt, and Ogen who provided great foils to the MCs and in my opinion were quite well-written. Leon's story was similar to Setzer's in FFVI and personally I thought he was better written than Setzer (better localization partially at work there). Erhardt and Ogen were both awesome with a lot of shades of grey, and most importantly, these characters made the MCs look better by providing a nice thematic contrast to them in various ways.
I think I wouldn't like the game near as much as i am now without the scrutinize mechanics, it carries a certain charm like the old fallout games' text description, hope they would explore this idea more in upcoming games
To be honest, I want Scrutinize or some equivalent to be the genre standard moving forward. I was playing Lost Sphear a bit last night (which admittedly doesn't have the strongest NPC dialogue anyway) and I was aching to Scrutinize the NPCs in the towns haha. The game just felt empty without that option, the closest equivalent I can think of is how Dragon Quest IV feels without the Party Chat. I can't go back to "Welcome to Corneria!" without a paragraph explaining how this NPC is a refugee from a different town and is having trouble fitting in with the locals, so they spend a lot of time at the town entrance welcoming travelers instead.
Yeah, I haven't done the final final content yet, but it seems like if you're really decked out for the last fight, the boss rush part only makes the overall sequence only like 30% longer?
This is part of the reason why it's so obnoxious though. At this point in the game, the boss rush part doesn't really pose any kind of challenge. It's just annoying filler you have to work through before you can attempt the final boss again.

I would've even preferred if you fought the eight bosses in four pairs instead, make it a lot harder but also cut down on the amount of repetition by fighting all eight one after another. It's just a brainless chore and the lore dumps are only a good reward the first time you do it.
The reward for beating post game feels like a huge troll xD.
I think if there had been more meat to the ending cutscenes then the reward would've been fine. Doing a victory lap of the world with no monsters in it is a longstanding JRPG tradition from Dragon Quest, Mother, etc., so I liked how they sort of paid homage to that by giving you an accessory that eliminates random encounters. I've had a lot of fun just exploring the world with it and not worrying about battles.

But because the ending is pretty quick, the accessory seems kind of underwhelming. On an only tangentially-related note, I really wish that they added some DLC to expand the story and add maybe a few more superbosses (I know they already confirmed there's no DLC planned, but still).
I just think it's wild how players can never see the post-game if they don't do the side quests, but it's such an awesome pay-off having everything fit in such a subtle way versus the usual hamfisting of plot in other games.
I think one of the game's biggest narrative strengths is that there is indeed this conventional JRPG plot going on, but it's completely off to the side and you pretty much have nothing to do with it until the very end where suddenly it's "HOLY SHIT THE RESURRECTED DEATH GOD IS ABOUT TO START THE APOCALYPSE!!". It's like all the payoff of an epic JRPG world-saving plot but with none of the played-out conventions getting from Point A, the beginning, to Point B, the end. Instead you have this unique set of character vignettes that (in my opinion quite gracefully) segues into the more classical "main plot."
 

Laie

Member
Jul 20, 2018
77
Speaking of his story, developers should look back on his chapter 2 when coming up with chapters in the next game. These kinds of set pieces is what would alleviate the monotony complaints very easily.

Edit: It wasn't explained.

It's also worth noting that Olberic is the first character that they actually came up with (after the complete rework of the story), thus more thoughts and resources are put into his chapters. Like the assets used in chapter 2 alone basically double a not so focused chapter by other characters, and Olberic got this huge chunk of additional npcs and items after his own conclusion (mostly due to chapter 2). WIth high points like Olberic's chapter 2 and Primrose's chapter 4 (mostly the presentation), I can't help but to sense traces of time and resource constraints in other parts.

Although this kinda excites me to see what they could make on the foundations of this game, hopefully with a larger budget and more development time on refining the game elements (according to the interviews they were still changing things drastically right before the first demo, and the actual development time is just about 3 years)
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,136
I think if there had been more meat to the ending cutscenes then the reward would've been fine. Doing a victory lap of the world with no monsters in it is a longstanding JRPG tradition from Dragon Quest, Mother, etc., so I liked how they sort of paid homage to that by giving you an accessory that eliminates random encounters. I've had a lot of fun just exploring the world with it and not worrying about battles.

But because the ending is pretty quick, the accessory seems kind of underwhelming. On an only tangentially-related note, I really wish that they added some DLC to expand the story and add maybe a few more superbosses (I know they already confirmed there's no DLC planned, but still).
Yeah it's a case for me where the reward is totally not for the type of player I am. I'm fairly sure I did everything before the final boss so no random encounters at that point doesn't do much for me xD that's kinda why I felt trolled to have that at the end.
 

donkey

Sumo Digital Dev
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
4,851
They need to fill out the Northeast and Southwest portions of the map already! >:O
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
The remarkable sprite work of the game doesn't get enough credit. I was kind of disappointed when they showed the sheet of each character for each job and it looked like they were mostly the same, but they actually totally pull off the characters wearing the same clothes in different ways and/or their usual outfits reflavored with the subjob details.

For example, Therion lookes "normal" as a Merchant in the Job Select screen, but in battle his back is turned to the screen, leaving like his entire torso covered with a huge backpack. Totally unique take on the Job compared to the other 7 characters.

Likewise for Olberic and Sorcerer, his outfit looks the same at first glance, but in-battle he has his usual hulked-out battle stance.

Olberic-Thief and Ophilia-Scholar are two of my favorite sprites.

Palette swaps that aren't actually palette swaps are another awesome detail that was a ton of work that most people don't really seem to notice or care about.
 

Jotakori

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,182
Oh man, glad I can finally partake in this thread! OP your write-up is so damn excellent!

I loved the concept of eight separate stories being what we play through, yet the "main" story is at the core and what they actually revolve around (and especially like your idea of Kit being the true main character in regards to his motives and fate). Having it setup as an endgame optional dungeon post-credits feels really brilliant, too. It just strengthens the distinction and makes the true story feel more mysterious and rewarding to unlock. The only downside was how god awfully hard and unforgiving the final dungeon/boss was. If I had beaten it all first try, the post-fight scenes probably wouldn't have felt so unrewarding. But it took me seven tries in the end lol, and just a quick scene with Kit and no fanfare is all I get for it??? Something a bit more epic definitely should have been attached for sure.
But anyways, gripes aside, what I really love is how the eight stories give us just bits and pieces and then leave it up to us to piece together and seek out answers for.

One of the first chp4 bosses I finished was Tressa's, and at that point I didn't really know anything about Graham, I didn't understand why the name reveal felt so dramatic, I didn't know who this chick or dude were and why they came out of absolutely no where, it all felt so abrupt and weird? It almost was a negative, but as I kept playing and discovered more about the Obsidians, learned who Graham was (that moment I realized the connection to Alfyn's story was such a highlight!), began to put together an idea of this organization and mysterious gate, and then finally ultimately reaching the endgame and discovering how important Graham was and that he was Kit's father, too! Oh my god, I love it. I love discovering lore that's not outright told to us, but given in bits and pieces and then putting it together myself. It's honestly the best, and I'm really glad OT went that route with a bunch of it.
Also I mentioned it in the OT and I know it's been brought up here already, but making the connection that Graham turned into Redeye was so good??? That it's not explicitly stated, yet it's still clearly the answer is just, omg, so excellent. It infinitely makes H'annit's story way more interesting in hindsight.
Another thing I mentioned in OT but wanted to bring up here as well is, in relation to Kit, I really like how he felt a bit like a parallel to how there was a 13th/extra god; he was sorta like the 9th/extra traveler.

Ending and its lore gushing aside, overall there were really so many strong moments along the way in this game, too. I really loved Leon's story - it was so tragic, and my heart just instantly went out to this man. Same as Erhardt's. I loved how they handled his character (and damn I still can't get over how pretty he was gat dang fjlka;sd), and how he really wasn't a villain so much as a regular person with good intentions on the opposite side of a story wanting their revenge. I mean, it's not like his story is all that different than Primrose's for example, but because he's on the other side of Olberic's blade, we automatically assume he's bad until we're forced to realize he isn't. Honestly, all the supporting characters and their stories were so wonderful. Ogen's, Ali's, even having Mikk and Makk come back and stick around all the way through to the post game quests, then all the NPCs and their unique information, plus just the end game quests in general that connect different characters to different stories -- they were all so great! The end game quests were probably some of my favorites, just because as brief as my time was with all these characters, I liked everyone and I didn't want to say goodbye to anyone. This gave me an opportunity to see them again, to have some overlapping between them all, and to know what they were up to after the fact. Like, coming across Vanessa in the one coastlands cave was such a cool, fun touch?? That's the kind of detail they really didn't need to bother with yet they did, and despite being so small helped so much with giving the world just that extra sense of life. One of my biggest gripes with games is when characters or dialogues don't update or change as you work through the story. It ends up making the world feel very lonely by the end after you've seen everyone and no longer have any story to work through (botw is a strong example of this - like how many times I wished Sidon or Riju or the other champion descendants would have different things to say after I beat the other divine beasts.) And OT countered that by finally bringing all these unique characters into the world to interact with/perform quests for after beating the game and I appreciate it so dang much.

And speaking of NPCs, the stories you could inquire/scrutinize out of people were soooo dang good. I was obsessed with reading everyone's story, and I loved when multiple NPCs in a town connected together. The kids, snowman maker, and old man by the dungeon path in Stillsnow still pops up to mind. There was another NPC in Orewell I believe standing on a bridge looking out over the view - which seemed harmless enough - but if you scrutinized him would learn of some recent bad misfortune. This one struck me a lot, because it instantly evoked the imagine that he might actually be contemplating suicide. It stood out even more to me after coming across the quest further in the town of the guy actually threatening suicide despite it being clear he was just distraught and wouldn't actually do it. Idk if anyone else got these kinda vibes from that NPC, but it really unnerved me in a sort of complex, intriguing kind of way. The quest with the guy stuck in jail (in Marsalim, I think it was?) that had an old lover he was asking about in Grandport really gd got me, too. Knowing he was slated for death, and having the guard come and take him away after you told him the details of his past girl was so damn depressing and dark. How dark this game got constantly surprised me, because on the surface it feels so quaint and charming, like it wouldn't really go into concepts and stories that deep or dark. Yet we literally get to watch a dude get taken away to his execution. Yet we find a dead body that belonged to the husband a lady was looking for. Yet we meet countless, countless families, couples, and friends who've experienced loss. Man, there was even a story about an old couple that struggled to have a kid, finally did, then lost them in an accident and was unsuccessful at having another - and being forced to accept and be okay with just helping looking after the other kids in town. That's so gd tragic?? Just, wow. The NPCs/questlines in Octopath might honestly be some of the best I've experienced in a game tbh.

Gosh, I'm starting to get as verbose as Cyrus here lol so I'll just wrap it up with a few final thoughts -
Overall this game is soooo damn beautiful. I absolutely love how they made it all look, and I love the sprites and art direction. The OST is amazing. And gosh, I actually really wish there was going to be DLC for this. I want more stories and tidbits between the characters so dang badly - or even a story from, like, Kit's perspective would be super cool! Shame they don't plan to have any. Also god damn do I have a dying need for them to make an artbook for this game. I want to see what all the characters who didn't get big full body sprites look like! I want to see what Leon and his old pirate bud look like, I want to see Kit, Lyblac, Ali, Odette, and just... everyone! (Mostly so I can draw them, I wanna draw so much fanart of everyone fk;afajs;)

Phew, now that I got all that out time to pass the heck out cuz I stayed up waayyy too late (early, actually, at this point) beating this game and typing up all my thoughts afterwords. Whoops.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,090
For anybody who's already beaten it, how the hell do I beat the final boss's first phase? My characters are all 70-75 and we all have Saving Grace, and I end up not standing a chance. My healer keeps getting hit by seal magic so we can't stay healed efficiently, the poisons plus the poison buff seriously hurts us. Anytime somebody gets hit by the attack that drains all of their SP is also very demoralizing. The longer it goes on the worse it gets and I'm tired of doing the boss rush lol.
 

DTC

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,582
I have a really hard time picking the 3 best overall stories.

Olberic / Primrose / Alfyn stories were all really good. Prim's chapter 4 was probably the weakest of these 3 (although still p good), but her other chapters were excellent.

Worst story imo was H'aanit. H'aanits story was a disappointment. I didn't like Redeye's design and I really didn't like that Redeye was you-know-who... Z'aanta was awesome though. H'aanits story needed more Z'aanta, cuz Z'aanta and H'aanit were an entertaining pair.
 

Mattakuevan

Self requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
765
Just beat it, holy shit that final boss fight. That's some Hard-Mode SMT superboss level stuff.

Overall I liked the game quite a lot, one of the best I've played and a feast for RPG fans.

I think my favorite stories were Prim, Alfyn, and Olberic. Least favorite was H'annit. The rest were all pretty good too (even Tressa's, her bosses just were a bit too abrubt. Everything else was good).
 

Jotakori

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,182
For anybody who's already beaten it, how the hell do I beat the final boss's first phase? My characters are all 70-75 and we all have Saving Grace, and I end up not standing a chance. My healer keeps getting hit by seal magic so we can't stay healed efficiently, the poisons plus the poison buff seriously hurts us. Anytime somebody gets hit by the attack that drains all of their SP is also very demoralizing. The longer it goes on the worse it gets and I'm tired of doing the boss rush lol.
Make sure you have a Sorcerer, Apothecary, and Cleric. Fourth character can be whatever cuz they're primarily just going to be handing out items. Buff your sorc with the cleric divine skill that lets skills trigger twice and use your apo's divine skill on your fourth party member so that items work on all your team. Your sorc should be spamming the light magic attack just about constantly - giving them the patience skill is also really helpful. Your cleric and apo should mostly focus on buffs first and then attacking or back-up healing after. Your fourth member should be keeping everyone with full BP and healed (if you've been saving your jams, now is the time to use them). If you're aggressive enough, you should be able to avoid most ailments and what you don't avoid the apo will be very helpful with.

You could use Alfyn for this fight, but I actually recommend saving him for the second phase cuz his concoct ability that removes all the enemy's buffs and prevents buffs for three turns is really dang helpful in that one.
 

Apollo

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
8,090
Make sure you have a Sorcerer, Apothecary, and Cleric. Fourth character can be whatever cuz they're primarily just going to be handing out items. Buff your sorc with the cleric divine skill that lets skills trigger twice and use your apo's divine skill on your fourth party member so that items work on all your team. Your sorc should be spamming the light magic attack just about constantly - giving them the patience skill is also really helpful. Your cleric and apo should mostly focus on buffs first and then attacking or back-up healing after. Your fourth member should be keeping everyone with full BP and healed (if you've been saving your jams, now is the time to use them). If you're aggressive enough, you should be able to avoid most ailments and what you don't avoid the apo will be very helpful with.

You could use Alfyn for this fight, but I actually recommend saving him for the second phase cuz his concoct ability that removes all the enemy's buffs and prevents buffs for three turns is really dang helpful in that one.

Thanks! I actually just now managed to finish the whole fight before I read this, but I absolutely used a lot of what you said here so... it still counts! Bringing Alfyn for the first phase is definitely what did it for me. The concoct that cleared status effects was a lifesaver. The Cleric divine skill on Sorcerer made a huge difference too. The last set of adds were very scary because I took too long and both Alfyn (on Cleric) and Primrose (on Starseer) got removed from the battle, while Cyrus (Sorcerer) had weak magic. It became a race to take down the adds by spamming the Thief divine skill to get them back lol.

Second phase was a lot easier, although it got a little dicey towards the end. Managed to take the boss down during its first vuln phase... but it took us a while to get there, as he kept resetting his shield points lol.

Now to enjoy the ending!

Edit: aww, I liked that we got that little bit of closure with Graham. I felt like his fate from the diaries was too cruel.
 
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Scar

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,669
Title Town
Wow.

Just beat the game after a all night session.

Really loved how they fleshed out each characters boss to a degree. I love how Mattias was a pious priest until no salvation came to his covenant and then he basically became the Anti-Christ. lol

LOVE LOVE LOVE that Graham became Red Eye. It's totally canon and like FiveSide said, it's the only real way H'aanit's story meshes with the other characters in the grand scheme of the story.

I love those stories snippets after the each boss of the boss rush. Very rewarding stories. I loved the final battles even though they were quite annoying. I thought my 1st squad was the weak team and my B squad actually had way more trouble in the second fight then I ever did in the first.

Shame that this is pretty much the end. FiveSide, how col would it have been to be able to play as Kit after everything is all said and done? It's pretty well done.

Bravo Square.
 

Jotakori

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,182
Thanks! I actually just now managed to finish the whole fight before I read this, but I absolutely used a lot of what you said here so... it still counts! Bringing Alfyn for the first phase is definitely what did it for me. The concoct that cleared status effects was a lifesaver. The Cleric divine skill on Sorcerer made a huge difference too. The last set of adds were very scary because I took too long and both Alfyn (on Cleric) and Primrose (on Starseer) got removed from the battle, while Cyrus (Sorcerer) had weak magic. It became a race to take down the adds by spamming the Thief divine skill to get them back lol.

Second phase was a lot easier, although it got a little dicey towards the end. Managed to take the boss down during its first vuln phase... but it took us a while to get there, as he kept resetting his shield points lol.

Now to enjoy the ending!

Edit: aww, I liked that we got that little bit of closure with Graham. I felt like his fate from the diaries was too cruel.
Congrats on beating it!! And getting through second phase on first try, too? Dang, impressive!
It took me like 3/4 tries for both phases lol, I sucked at it. But feels good to finally push your way through something giving you a lot of trouble. And yeah the end of phase one gets dicey as heck. When it started pulling out the petrification ailment I was like, 'wtf is that?! That's not fair!' LOL. The countdown adds got me a couple times, too.
 

Enforcer

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
2,960
Just beat the true boss. My god that was probably the hardest jrpg boss I fought. It took me an hour and more killing the first phase I kept spawning the adds endlessly XD.

I found most of the story to be underwhelming but that bit near the end was great. I loved the lore and how it connected to everything. Wish Lyblac had more development but hiding it til the end was ok. I kinda suspected she plays a huge role since her quests seemed foreboding.
 

Nav

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
Easily one of the best stories I've experienced in years. When you compare it to the first entry in say, the Final Fantasy series, it's leaps and bounds ahead.

One word of warning: the Internet can really mess up your expectations of the final dungeon. Honestly, I went in way underleveled the first time because I looked up how to unlock it. The thing is, it's clearly meant to take time to discover and unlock, given how it unfolds from obscure side quest chains. I hope some players out there find it organically as they wrap up side stories, as that would improve the pacing a lot.

There remain a lot of unanswered questions to me, particularly as pertain to Sokrath and the Ventus dynasty. The Pre-Hornburg and High Hornburgian histories are intriguing.

Additionally, one is left to wonder about the 12 gods of the realm. Surely they correspond to the 12 jobs of the game? But what then of Galdera? Where are these other gods? Maybe I needed to pay closer attention to this.

Finally, one slightly disappointing thing about the final dungeon was the delivery of the information dumps. I really wish there was voice over or being visited by a spirit rather than just reading the diaries.
 

Basileus777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,198
New Jersey
Despite the strong first chapter, Primrose might actually have the worst story out of the lot. Her last two chapters are really awful, Simeon just ruins her entire storyline. The whole framework with the play doesn't work at all either.
 
Apr 9, 2018
510
The Gate of Finis feels like it's lifted from the final act of a Falcom game, with the visuals and the music and the lore dumps
 

Smiles

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
For real what is up with the Spoiler thread? Is it active can I ask gameplay questions here?

Hello anyone here >.>
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,009
Despite the strong first chapter, Primrose might actually have the worst story out of the lot. Her last two chapters are really awful, Simeon just ruins her entire storyline. The whole framework with the play doesn't work at all either.

Honestly I think of the 8 chapters, Primrose was the most ambitious in terms of...I don't know what you'd call it, the "style" maybe? It seemed like they wanted to specifically frame her story as a dramatic tragedy, this was apparent not just from Simeon's theatrics but also from the text that popped up occasionally in a stage direction-way, which didn't happen in any of the other stories.

I think they had this idea for a grand revenge story contextualized as a stage play, with her "breaking out" of the role that she had been cast in and finding her happiness (alternatively, being so obsessed that she recognizes the dramatic nature of the role she's been given but embraces it anyway b/c she's so resentful towards her father's killers). But somewhere along the line, that very ambitious framework lost the plot a bit and just ended up being kind of...weird. In fact it's probably about where Simeon showed up, precisely, where it kind of went off the rails.

the fact that she killed him instead of forgiving him at the end made me wonder whether or not she was accepting or rejecting the "role" she had been given. This is part of the reason I was disappointed with Simeon, it would've been much more interesting if Simeon was a likable, relatable character that had had to kill her father reluctantly for some reason, because then Primrose's actions would've been more tragic (i.e. she had to kill a decent guy she cared about, because she must have her revenge). But he ended up being an ass and even stabbed her (yea, "I stabbed you where you had an even chance of living or dying," whatever, he still stabbed her) so there really wasn't any moral dilemma with killing him. When she killed him, I didn't think "oh that's tragic."

It's hard to decipher what a writer's intent is but ultimately I did feel that they were angling for a more sympathetic Simeon and just flubbed it. If anything the way he sweet talked Primrose and then literally stabbed her made him even more detestable than the rest of the villains.

On a semi-related note I loved her final "fin" card with her letting a dove go, like she was making peace with the world in general.
Additionally, one is left to wonder about the 12 gods of the realm. Surely they correspond to the 12 jobs of the game? But what then of Galdera? Where are these other gods? Maybe I needed to pay closer attention to this.
Not sure if the current whereabouts of the other gods is ever explained in the game. For all we know they could've set aside their immortality and entered the cycle of rebirth and ended up reincarnated, after generations, as the eight MCs we have (note that there has been at least one prior set of mythic octopath travelers in the game's lore). Perhaps they're simply spirits that inhabit the "jobs" themselves, at each shrine. I like this interpretation because then bringing the jobs to fight Galdera is once again having the twelve "gods" as manifested in the jobs themselves, sealing him away (though this requires the presence of the four superjobs, which I don't think are mandatary, so...). I also like the idea that Galdera doesn't have a job because a job is an indication of role-filling in a collaborative party, and Galdera loses precisely because he fights alone rather than teaming up with others.
For real what is up with the Spoiler thread? Is it active can I ask gameplay questions here?

Hello anyone here >.>
I made the thread way too early I think. Most people still aren't at the point where they feel comfortable discussing the game as a whole with unmarked spoilers. It's one of those things that's really hard to do because, well, you really need to play straight-up 99.9% of the content before everything comes together. I can't think of another game that plays its cards close to its chest for so long.

I'll post a link to the spoiler thread in the OT though, since I think at this point people might just not know about it.

Feel free to ask a gameplay question. The answer is likely Runelord + Tressa :p haha.
 
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Niraj

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,169
Cool write-up. It's cool that these very basic sidequests that you do fairly early in the game lead to the end we get. Agree with everyone who mentioned it, it's kind of disappointing that a lot of people probably won't get the full story if they don't complete the requisite side quests. The lack of the ability to save I feel like will also turn off a lot of players from completing that quest. I just finished it earlier today, first phase I had H'aanit as a warrior, Primrose as a cleric, Therion as an apothecary, and Cyrus as a sorcerer, second phase I had Ophelia as a starseer, Tressa as a runelord, Olberic as a warmaster, and Alfyn as a thief. Didn't really feel like I was ever in danger of dying since the apothecary divine skill is so OP with the BP restoration items and the jams and such.

The thing I really liked about the game was the tone. A lot of the side quests and main stories deal with really serious subjects, and I really appreciated how they progressed and concluded. Storywise I really liked Cyrus and Tressa the best, though Ophelia and Olberic were both pretty good too. Primrose started off great, but I felt like her third chapter and the stuff with Simeon was kind of a letdown. Didn't really hate any of the stories though.
 

FF Seraphim

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,700
Tokyo
Going to agree with everyone here and say Primrose started off great but then.... chapter 4 was such an extreme let down compared to the other chapters and her final villain was just awful. I do like her travel banter with Olberic, hell you can tell through the banter that Olberic is this rock that keeps you ground and you can depend on.
Favorite story would be Olberic followed by Cyrus. Ophelia's would be the worse, it just didn't click with me.
 

Firemind

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,529
Reposting this from the OT:

Finished all the 8 stories. As far as writing, character development, supporting cast, setting, bosses go

Top tier: Olberic
Every chapter served a purpose and was written well. Also a great supporting cast with Cecily and Erhardt. Chapter two was one of the few times (I think only time) where you don't trek inside a dungeon. Great setting for a final chapter too. They didn't have to explain Werner doing horrible things. He just did them because he's evil. Like how he killed a soldier and pushed him off the platform because the soldier was shitting his pants seeing Olberic and Erhardt together. Sometimes simple writing is the most effective especially when you're only given a limited time frame.

High tier: Cyrus
All the chapters linked well. It's lighthearted at times too which is welcome. He and Odette had some funny moments. Final chapter wasn't grand but had the most foreshadowing of them all that there is a greater evil. I especially liked the repeated DEATH and DESTRUCTION. You know shit is going down. While Olberic had his redemption, Cyrus didn't really have much of a resolution. Didn't even notice Therese's feelings. BAKA

Middle tier: H'aanit, Tressa, Ophilia
All three had some weak moments but is generally solidly written. H'aanit has her ch. 2 with two provoke battles and one in ch. 3. Ophilia's ch. 2 was quite irrelevant. The only purpose of Tressa's ch. 2 was to introduce Ali and tell her about the great fare. I preferred Leone Bastralle's story in ch. 3 though. It made Tressa think what her greatest treasure is culminating in her final chapter. You even see the two pirates who stole Tressa's belongings in the first chapter have a change of heart lol. H'aanit and Z'aanta make a great pair so it's good to see them together again. I liked that her story concluded with that she grew old and that this is one of many stories she could tell (probably to her kids and grand kids.) Ophilia started weak but ended strong. It needed a twist to do so which was believable to a degree, at least more than the next three. I also liked the setting of her chapter 4. Reminds me of The Wicker Man.

Bottom tier: Alfyn, Primrose, Therion
Weak writing partly because of the limitation of the chapter format really soured these. Alfyn started well but his ch. 3 and 4 were generally uninteresting. He needed a letter from his dear friend to snap him out of it. Poor final boss as well. Primrose's ch. 3 and 4 were just a mess. None of it made sense. Cool setting though for a final chapter. Therion was predictable and made no sense. You already know Darius is going to show up since they spent a lot of time with flashbacks. It's predictable and he was pathetic as a final boss. Also that whole town of thieves made no sense. Only after the battle, the thieves started to backstab him. And Heathcote's backstory, what the fuck? Also the bangle nonsense. It's all poorly written.
 

Skittzo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,037
Just did most of the post game (4/8 are extremely underleveled so I could only beat phase 1 and don't have the patience to level them and do that boss rush over and over again) and I was absolutely floored by the text dumps.

I went into the game blind, so I had no idea anything was going to interconnect like this. I obviously saw some of the loose connection in each story but to have it all layed out for you as this singular woman pulling all of the strings really dropped my jaw. I've never really played a game like this, even all of the seemingly irrelevant random NPCs in towns had a real sense is place and purpose in the game.

I wish more RPGs would approach stories like this, giving you more grounded, personal stories rather than crazy magical nonsensical twists happening again and again.

Also the battle system was probably the second best RPG battle system I've ever played (best being Baten Kaitos- the randomness aspect of that made the big payoffs feel a lot more satisfying).

Overall 9/10 for me, a bit more variety in the chapter structure and a god damn save point after the boss rush may have pushed it to 10.


Edit: actually I'm extremely curious how many reviewers actually did the post game, I distinctly remember reading a line in a review that went something like "whiles there's no apocalyptic evil god to fight..." haha
 
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III-V

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,827
Although I think they could have done a better job with the optional end game transition, I do think this game will go down as something special, an Eartbound for this age.
 

Smiles

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
Although I think they could have done a better job with the optional end game transition, I do think this game will go down as something special, an Eartbound for this age.

it should not have been made to be seen as optional at all, they should have been driving it home that this thing had to be stop. Its like making Ganon and optional boss
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,053
it should not have been made to be seen as optional at all, they should have been driving it home that this thing had to be stop. Its like making Ganon and optional boss

I think the game having being very open world with a bunch of potentially viable spots to call things "done" works. It ultimately comes down to the final-final postgame challenge being plot-crucial rather than something generic, but almost all of the plot revelations come during the boss rush, so they're not locked behind the difficulty spike.

"Replays" of the game will all be wildly different in scope, and I like that. 4-chara/4-job runs can just be the MC's plot up to the credits, and that is it. Others may be 4, others may be all 8, or 8 plus shrines, etc. People will really appreciate a lot of what the game has done well over the coming years.
 

celigio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
703
Monteranch
Reposting artbook concept art for discussion

https://imgur.com/a/wJqBbCN

I really hope they release a full artbook

Also yesterday I finished the character stories, missing runelord and warmaster subjobs so I'll level my character to 70 and finish the sidequest to get good equipment for Galdera.

Biggest dissapointment for me so far is definetly Primrose's story, going for such a stereotypical evil psychotic stalker for a big bad. The ending itself at the grave I like it but it could have been so much better.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,254
I like the concept of the characters accidentally averting the apocalypse by just going about their own business, because not only is it kind of funny, it's also, like, the other twelve gods couldn't kill Galdora, so why should these eight humans be able to?

The endgame definitely feels tacked on, and maybe it would feel less so if any of the characters, like, said anything, at all during the whole sequence. As it is now, it just feels like it was something they hastily whipped up for people who couldn't put two and two together.
 

Tfritz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,254
Additionally, one is left to wonder about the 12 gods of the realm. Surely they correspond to the 12 jobs of the game? But what then of Galdera? Where are these other gods? Maybe I needed to pay closer attention to this.

The other 12 Gods correspond to the 12 jobs, they're for whom the divine skills are named. You even fight four of them for the advanced jobs, and you visit Galdera's job shrine for the finale of Ophilia's story.

As for why they aren't intervening, Let's Just Assume it's one of those "If we show up and start fighting for real we would probably actually end up destroying the whole continent" situations.
 

Benzychenz

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 1, 2017
15,379
Australia
Finished the game yesterday and loved it!

It was really cool how everything came together in the end, when it seemed like nothing was connected at the beginning. Also loved how the true villain that orchestrated most events in the game is a random sidequest NPC that first appears in a chapter 1 town, amazing.

That said though, the game really dragged around the middle and I don't think I can give it more than an 8/10 due to that. Needed a bit of interweaving plot to show its head earlier on to keep me invested or something, because once I started the chapter 4s and the same things like the Gate of Finis kept coming up my interest skyrocketed.
 

Smiles

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,897
The other 12 Gods correspond to the 12 jobs, they're for whom the divine skills are named. You even fight four of them for the advanced jobs, and you visit Galdera's job shrine for the finale of Ophilia's story.

As for why they aren't intervening, Let's Just Assume it's one of those "If we show up and start fighting for real we would probably actually end up destroying the whole continent" situations.
Even if we did not have to fight the other 8 I would have at least like to see what they looked like
 

Nav

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,904
It's also curious that Aelfric has this massive following whereas the other's don't. Even Marta's gang isn't exactly leaving offerings to Aeber.