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Oct 25, 2017
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Disclaimer: My experience with the game so far is limited to the demo versions; I am not a reviewer. I am also not an expert on Geoffrey Chaucer or his works, and have only begun reading them lately.

Hey all, this is something I haven't seen any (p)reviewers mention, and I thought it deserved to be brought more attention, as it lends a deeper appreciation to the game's outstanding localization, and may assuage some concerns about lack of party interactions in the characters' personal storylines by contextualizing Octopath Traveler's apparent inspiration.

To start with, I'd like to credit Lark, for bringing this parallel to my attention in this excellent post.

---

The Canterbury Tales. Heard of it? Perhaps not, if you haven't taken literature classes. Its author, Geoffrey Chaucer, was an eminently renowned poet in the Middle Ages (living from 1343 - 1400), most renowned for the aforementioned work, which sadly went incomplete, being in-progress prior to his death. It's one of the most influential, but now uncommonly known pieces of literature in the English language. What is it, and how does it relate to Octopath Traveler?

The Canterbury Tales
is a collection of short stories told in verse by characters in the loosely overarching narrative. Broadly, it's about a group of archetypal travelers who convene at a tavern and decide to embark on a pilgrimage together, telling each other short stories of their lives along the way. Sound familiar? Like Octopath's archetypal-yet-personable characters (The Dancer, the Apothecary, the Warrior, the Cleric, the Thief, the Hunter, the Scholar, and the Merchant), Canterbury's protagonists are named by their roles: the Knight, the Merchant, the Squire, the Man of Law, the Friar, the Physician, the Shipman, etc. (there are a lot more of them!), and have their own quirks and personalities, having been based on people and occupations Chaucer had personal experience with.

Not only that, but Canterbury's protagonists similarly exist on a spectrum of Nobles to Rogues—virtuous to immoral—which is an important gameplay demarcation between the path actions of Octopath's two halves of characters.

PBzbxod.jpg



Because they're travelers on a pilgrimage from London to Canterbury, simply telling each other stories, it contextualizes Octopath's own decision to feature a full party who interact, yet don't appear physically in one another's personal stories, in a way that's a little deeper and more deliberate than the various pragmatic development justifications I've already verbalized in the Preview thread.

Another crucial contextualization this inspiration lays bare is in regard to H'aanit's unusual dialect, which has been often criticized as bad or lazy writing, which couldn't be further from the truth: it's Middle English. Geoffrey Chaucer lived in the Middle Ages, prior to Shakespeare's modernizing effect on the English language, and thus wrote in Middle English—a period of our language rarely utilized in modern fiction, let alone streamlined as faithfully as Octopath has done.

Having H'aanit speak in this manner isn't just a smart reference by overeager localizers, because it serves to immediately convey how culturally isolated she is in her small hunting village. She's a naturalist more at home among the forest's denizens than in the bustling cities of Orsterra. Again, I must give Lark credit for noting the technical adaptation of Middle English to H'aanit's speech:

I've seen a lot of people complain about this, with others calling it things like "generic ye olde English speech" or "sticking random letters in to make it look old," but H'aanit is the only instance I've ever seen where a writing team seems to have actually studied the grammar of a non-modern form of English and implemented it in their text. In this case, the dialect of H'aanit's village appears to be based on Middle English, but toned down for modern audiences.

The best-known example of Middle English is Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, which is a story about a number of strangers joining together on a journey and telling tales to each other (the concept is similar enough to Octopath Traveler's that I suspect the localization team put in the Middle English as an homage). You can find the prologue to the Canterbury Tales here: [https://sourcebooks.fordham.edu/source/ct-prolog-para.asp]. When you read it, note the verb conjugation. It matches up very closely with how H'aanit speaks. The rendition of Middle English in Octopath is surprisingly faithful (though I'm glad they didn't go too far with it) and it's something I really appreciate about the game.

I hope this cursory write-up about what I believe to be Octopath's most primary homaging is illustrative that a compelling narrative need not have a singular goal, protagonist, or even a highly interactive cast of protagonists. If anyone more well-versed in Chaucer's work is able to find more connective threads, I'd be delighted to hear about it!

P.S. One more neat—if less presently concrete—reference lies in Octopath's potential number of chapters per character, and Canterbury's Prologue. Each traveler in Canterbury was meant to have four chapters, two on the way to Canterbury, and two on the return trip. According to recent speculation, it's somewhat likely that Octopath's protagonists have four chapters each, as well.
 

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I haven't read The Canterbury Tales since high school. Hell, haven't even thought about it since then, but now that you mentioned it, I can definitely see where you're coming from.
 

PlanetSmasher

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I WISH Octopath framed the story the way Chaucer did with a frame narrative about the eight characters telling their stories to each other directly, but unfortunately it just doesn't feel like that in practice. If they did the Chaucer frame narrative, the characters not appearing in each others' storylines would be more forgivable. Instead you just pick one off of a map and it's treated like these stories are all happening concurrently with each other.

Funny story: when I was in college, I actually worked on a Canterbury-inspired horror anthology about a bunch of dead souls on a journey through the afterlife telling life-lesson stories about the ways they died to the Grim Reaper.
 

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I WISH Octopath framed the story the way Chaucer did with a frame narrative about the eight characters telling their stories to each other directly, but unfortunately it just doesn't feel like that in practice. If they did the Chaucer frame narrative, the characters not appearing in each others' storylines would be more forgivable. Instead you just pick one off of a map and it's treated like these stories are all happening concurrently with each other.

So something along the lines of Hyperion Cantos (the first one anyway)? I'm reading that at the moment and that's the structure it has.
 

Scything

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Oct 25, 2017
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I haven't read The Canterbury Tales since high school. Hell, haven't even thought about it since then, but now that you mentioned it, I can definitely see where you're coming from.

My secondary school did, but considering you could walk 5 minutes down the road to the Cathedral and go into the (admittedly terrible) animatronic show next door to see it with most of the other tales, it'd be a bit silly to try and ignore it.
 

PlanetSmasher

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So something along the lines of Hyperion Cantos (the first one anyway)? I'm reading that at the moment and that's the structure it has.

That's the structure Chaucer used, yeah. It's a bunch of COMPLETELY separate narratives that take place at different times and don't cross over directly (though there are subtle implications in some of the Tales that some characters may know each other or have interacted with some of the same people) but come together to produce a larger whole.

Comparatively, Octopath is more like...here's eight stories all happening at basically the same time, with characters passing through the same locations, and yet they never really link up or meet up in their stories. But now you can recruit the other seven and bring them along but they don't even contribute.
 

Shifty1897

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Oct 28, 2017
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As soon as I read the thread title, I thought "We're talking about Chaucer, right?" Glad I wasn't disappointed.

An excellent observation and an interesting read.
 

senj

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Nov 6, 2017
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So something along the lines of Hyperion Cantos (the first one anyway)? I'm reading that at the moment and that's the structure it has.
Yeah. Simmons deliberately structured the first book, Hyperion, off of the Canterbury Tales (the book itself is an assemblage of several earlier short stories he had written into the Canterbury-based frame narrative of the travelers telling each other their tales).
 
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That's the structure Chaucer used, yeah. It's a bunch of COMPLETELY separate narratives that take place at different times and don't cross over directly (though there are subtle implications in some of the Tales that some characters may know each other or have interacted with some of the same people) but come together to produce a larger whole.

Comparatively, Octopath is more like...here's eight stories all happening at basically the same time, with characters passing through the same locations, and yet they never really link up or meet up in their stories. But now you can recruit the other seven and bring them along but they don't even contribute.


Admittedly, I think Octopath's recruitment method could have been streamlined much more smoothly into the narrative, using Chaucer's precise framework and the tavern locale, but we're hearing more and more about party interactions, including that they comment on each other's stories, so I'm optimistic that the game's disparate characters coalesce a little more compellingly as we advance.

That said, I'm also fine with using my imagination, looking at its concept art with them at the tavern, and imagining them relaying their personal experiences as they meet up at taverns, while adventuring throughout Orsterra together.

Regardless, I'm in love with Octopath's whole premise, and how it borrows from Chaucer's burgeoning Choose Your Own Adventure idea to create an open-ended JRPG about more traditional, imaginative role-playing.
 

PlanetSmasher

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Admittedly, I think Octopath's recruitment method could have been streamlined much more smoothly into the narrative, using Chaucer's precise framework and the tavern locale, but we're hearing more and more about party interactions, including that they comment on each other's stories, so I'm optimistic that the game's disparate characters coalesce a little more compellingly as we advance.

That said, I'm also fine with using my imagination, looking at its concept art with them at the tavern, and imagining them relaying their personal experiences as they meet up at taverns, while adventuring throughout Orsterra together.

I want the game to do the work, I guess. I'm a writer myself, if I want to do the work of writing headcanon for characters I'd rather get paid for it. :P
 

GDGF

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Oct 26, 2017
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Knew from the title that this was going to be about Canterbury Tales :)
 

Aprikurt

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Wait, a Chaucer video game?

I get an RPG sidemission where I cuckold the Miller...?
 

KartuneDX

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Great topic, the game makes a lot more sense from a narrative perspective when you put it that way.

Personally, I'm not part of the camp that sees a lack of intertwining stories as a bad thing. From my perspective, starting as Tressa (who, for role-playing purposes feels like a good neutral starting character) results in an organic journey that doesn't feel forced or arbitrary. She's a simple character who wants to see the world. It then felt only natural to then progress to Olberic's region, "recruit" a mercenary (again, for rping purposes), then circle back up to Cyrus' region. The deserts seemed treacherous, and Tressa and Olberic thought it wiser to travel north.

Recruiting Cyrus again felt like natural progression, because here go these wanderers running into a scholar who had a seemingly simple problem that we were able to assist him with. Once that was done, he saw it fit to join our party following his dismissal from the academy. Our journey continues.

That may have been a lot but that was just an example of how the first three narratives felt to me, and not once did it feel like it lacked credibility or authenticity. Personally the lack of more linear, traditional storytelling makes it wonderful for role-playing, and my head canon right now is making tons of sense. Three complete strangers are now together on a journey, and though their goals are different, so far I've gathered that their intentions are pure and I couldn't imagine a more fitting party thus far.

Can't wait to continue my save in the full game.
 
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Great topic, the game makes a lot more sense from a narrative perspective when you put it that way.

Personally, I'm not part of the camp that sees a lack of intertwining stories as a bad thing. From my perspective, starting as Tressa (who, for role-playing purposes feels like a good neutral starting character) results in an organic journey that doesn't feel forced or arbitrary. She's a simple character who wants to see the world. It then felt only natural to then progress to Olberic's region, "recruit" a mercenary (again, for rping purposes), then circle back up to Cyrus' region. The deserts seemed treacherous, and Tressa and Olberic thought it wiser to travel north.

Recruiting Cyrus again felt like natural progression, because here go these wanderers running into a scholar who had a seemingly simple problem that we were able to assist him with. Once that was done, he saw it fit to join our party following his dismissal from the academy. Our journey continues.

That may have been a lot but that was just an example of how the first three narratives felt to me, and not once did it feel like it lacked credibility or authenticity. Personally the lack of more linear, traditional storytelling makes it wonderful for role-playing, and my head cannon right now is making tons of sense. Three complete strangers are now together on a journey, and though their goals are different, so far I've gathered that their intentions are pure and I couldn't imagine a more fitting party thus far.

Can't wait to continue my save in the full game.

Thanks! This is exactly how I believe the game is meant to be played—a creative role-playing adventure, in a more traditional sense than the completely pre-determined journeys we've grown accustomed to in JRPGs.
 

senj

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Probably not? I remember it being fairly grounded. It's set in the real world in any case.
There are supernatural elements (in the Pardoner's Tale 3 brothers set out to kill Death, but he turns the table. In the Friar's Tale a summoner (a court role, someone who issues summons, not a magician) meets The Devil, etc) but I don't think these things were conceived of as "fantasy" by contemporary readers in the way we would understand LoTR to be fantasy. These seem to have been more like unlikely events that could nonetheless befall people.
 

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There are supernatural elements (in the Pardoner's Tale 3 brothers set out to kill Death, but he turns the table. In the Friar's Tale a summoner (a court role, someone who issues summons, not a magician) meets The Devil, etc) but I don't think these things were conceived of as "fantasy" by contemporary readers in the way we would understand LoTR to be fantasy. These seem to have been more like unlikely events that could nonetheless befall people.

So perhaps not fantastical at the time of writing, but probably meant as allegories?
 

Wispmetas

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Oct 27, 2017
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As Brian Damage here as said, I'm currently reading Hyperion from the Hyperion Cantos, that is highly inspired by The Canterbury Tales's format, even being called by some "Canterbury Tales in space", while it is true that the whole book is just a selection of different tales, that have nothing to do with eachother, in the end there is a overarching plot to the book, something that connects all the different characters, in the Canterbury Tales I believe it is a pilgrimage too?

My problem with Octopath right now, is that it is acting as though each character has a story and the others aren't part of it, but right after that we see those same characters fighting the big bosses of plots that have nothing to do with them.

This isn't the same as 8 people on a pilgrimage talking about their stories up untill that moment. All of them are happening at the same time, and all (or some) of the characters are present in those tales, but are being totally ignored.

I really would have no problem if this was a game with a Canterbury Tales style plot, but each plot had their different characters that you could use.

Now you can say I have to use my imagination to believe that only the character present is the most important to the plot, and sure I can, but I would preffer not to, and I just think it sounds (yes sounds, because I don't have the full game, and am willing to eat crow if it totally works in the full game) strange to have a party and ignore 3/4 (or 7/8 if comparing to something like Tales of series) of it at any given time in the story.
 

senj

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So perhaps not fantastical at the time of writing, but probably meant as allegories?
I'm not sure I feel qualified to say for sure. I know The Friar's tale is a retelling of a then common folk tale of a corrupt official getting their comeuppance via the divine world. Whether or not Chaucer understood that to be a fully allegorical tale, or had some belief that this could in some sense indeed happen...I don't know enough about him and the timeperiod.
 

Elven_Star

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20180709_000157.jpg


This was one of the first texts we studied at the university. Here's an accessible version (with modernized language) for those interested.

P.S. Humanity does not deserve Octopath Traveler.
 

PlanetSmasher

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I'm not sure I feel qualified to say for sure. I know The Friar's tale is a retelling of a then common folk tale of a corrupt official getting their comeuppance via the divine world. Whether or not Chaucer understood that to be a fully allegorical tale, or had some belief that this could in some sense indeed happen...I don't know enough about him and the timeperiod.

It was definitely meant to be metaphor. A lot of the Tales were meant to be social commentary or light satire in some ways, a few of them were even inherently comedic. Keep in mind that the Tales were told from the perspectives of the character telling them, rather than Chaucer himself. This allowed Chaucer to utilize more fantastical or divine elements for the clergymen in the group (the people most likely to believe in things like the Devil being actual physical forces in the world), while still maintaining his own distance from the material.
 

Nav

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Oct 27, 2017
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I am still kinda bothered by the conjugation inconsistencies in Hannit's speech, but I do love this comparison. It is a refreshing rebuttal to those who say this game lacks an overarching story to its detriment. This game may not be akin to Final Fantasy VI, but it is to Canterbury Tales.
 

1upsuper

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Jan 30, 2018
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I have been on blackout for this game so this is a very pleasant surprise. The Canterbury Tales was one of the texts that inspired me to study medieval lit in college.

Also, OP, I think you should give people more credit. The Canterbury Tales is still very well known.
 

No Depth

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Oct 27, 2017
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Because they're travelers on a pilgrimage from London to Canterbury...

Not to derail, but this setup right here creates a unifying intent, and something similarly basic the game itself could have benefited from in its opening. Such a minor detail but one which solidifies and glues the traveler's together even if by the most marginal means.
 

RedDevil

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I hope so, but many people here wouldn't shut up about Kingdom Come when it was close to release and now no one talks about it, no one hates it nor recommends it

I guess but KCD had fanfare going for it years before it was released, Octopath Traveler appears to be gaining momentum just now even when it was announced a little over 1 year ago.
 
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Not to derail, but this setup right here creates a unifying intent, and something similarly basic the game itself could have benefited from in its opening. Such a minor detail but one which solidifies and glues the traveler's together even if by the most marginal means.

We've yet to see their interactions. Could simply helping each other to mutual benefit not be a unifying intent? It is in a great many JRPGs prior to the encountering of a Big Bad, and Octopath's open-ended structure lends itself to that sort of wandering whimsy.

The pilgrimage in Canterbury Tales is the barest framework for the story's real intention: the telling of their personal short stories.

Now, I do agree that Octopath's opening recruitment could be a little more cohesive, but it's a slight mark against it to me, given what it's going for overall and what we haven't seen.
 

L Thammy

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Does the game differ significantly in its implementation than Romancing Saga? I had taken the game as rather straightforwardly being inspired by that.
 

RugoUniverse

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May 15, 2018
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Really interesting stuff, thanks! As a Late Medieval PhD and enormous fan of the Hyperion Cantos, I now have yet another reason to get a Switch...
 
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Update! I just replayed the demo, and found more concrete evidence that this is the intended structure, with the characters' personal stories being told communally at taverns:

The option to switch between whose story you're actively following is not only tied to the tavern, but it's called "Hear a Tale."

Now—obviously, this doesn't invalidate the qualms about how the recruitment sections are handled, which are rather strange in their interjection prior to prologue bosses, rather than explicitly telling the entirety of the Chapter in flashback, but it makes very clear why characters don't physically appear in each other's personal stories.
 

Lark

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Oct 27, 2017
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Thank you for making this thread! I'm happy to see this topic have a place for discussion, and you've written an excellent and detailed analysis of Octopath Traveler's connection to The Canterbury Tales. I hadn't considered the focus on profession that the two share—it's a great point, and I'm looking forward to seeing where the potential link with the four chapters leads as well.

To add another point to the discussion, it's also worth mentioning that The Canterbury Tales is notable for its depiction of mundane life. It features a collection of fairly ordinary characters from a range of social classes, each with fairly ordinary concerns. This was something of a departure from the English literature that had preceded it, such as the Arthurian mythos and various dream vision poems. The frame story of The Canterbury Tales was, in comparison, less grand in scope and more down-to-earth.

Based on the demos, Octopath Traveler seems to have a similar aim relative to other JRPGs (though without full knowledge of the plot, it's hard to say for sure). Compared to other settings, Orsterra seems more historical than fantasy, and more mundane than epic. Though some of the protagonists, like Primrose and Olberic, look to have the sorts of grand destinies that often come with JRPGs (or Arthurian legend), others like Tressa and Alfyn are just normal people living in Orsterra. The stakes of their quests are small in scale, rather than for the fate of the world or the like (as far as we know, anyway). You can also see the focus on ordinary life in the backstories given to the world's NPCs, seen using Cyrus or Alfyn's path abilities.

Along with that, there's also very little that's supernatural in Octopath's story, at least so far. Although most of the characters can cast magic in combat, nothing in the narrative suggests that any of the characters besides Ophilia have any actual magical powers in the game's story. The only overt magic in the narrative I can remember from the demo is the golem that Ophilia fights.

Having said all this, I do think it'd be a bit of a stretch to try and tie all of that directly to The Canterbury Tales. There are plenty of other reasons the developers might have taken a relatively realistic approach to their setting. However, the similarities are definitely there, and I think it'll be even more interesting to analyze them once the game is out.

One last note: Ophilia, the canonical first protagonist, is on an actual pilgrimage, so you could also think of the protagonists of Octopath Traveler as a company of pilgrims in a sense.
 

InkyVulture

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Oct 26, 2017
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Any information if localization in other languages have done the same as the english one language wise? And which texts it would have sourced?

Update! I just replayed the demo, and found more concrete evidence that this is the intended structure, with the characters' personal stories being told communally at taverns:

The option to switch between whose story you're actively following is not only tied to the tavern, but it's called "Hear a Tale."

Now—obviously, this doesn't invalidate the qualms about how the recruitment sections are handled, which are rather strange in their interjection prior to prologue bosses, rather than explicitly telling the entirety of the Chapter in flashback, but it makes very clear why characters don't physically appear in each other's personal stories.

Maybe all the characters are just really self inserting themselves into the narrative told to them, I remember doing so while reading at a younger age. I would insert myself as a character in the story, steal some actions and dialog from other characters and even pause to insert small new moments so it made sense that there was an extra character on the cast.
 

sredgrin

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I feel like you're giving them way more credit than they are due. Hope I'm wrong though.

Lmao, Octopath has 100 times more buzz than KCD ever had. No one cared about KCD.

The game sold like a million copies in a week and when Steamspy was still working was north of a million on PC alone. It was a hit, and possibly one of the biggest AA style games of the generation.
 
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Any information if localization in other languages have done the same as the english one language wise? And which texts it would have sourced?



Maybe all the characters are just really self inserting themselves into the narrative told to them, I remember doing so while reading at a younger age. I would insert myself as a character in the story, steal some actions and dialog from other characters and even pause to insert small new moments so it made sense that there was an extra character on the cast.

That's basically what I think is implied, yeah.

Thank you for making this thread! I'm happy to see this topic have a place for discussion, and you've written an excellent and detailed analysis of Octopath Traveler's connection to The Canterbury Tales. I hadn't considered the focus on profession that the two share—it's a great point, and I'm looking forward to seeing where the potential link with the four chapters leads as well.

To add another point to the discussion, it's also worth mentioning that The Canterbury Tales is notable for its depiction of mundane life. It features a collection of fairly ordinary characters from a range of social classes, each with fairly ordinary concerns. This was something of a departure from the English literature that had preceded it, such as the Arthurian mythos and various dream vision poems. The frame story of The Canterbury Tales was, in comparison, less grand in scope and more down-to-earth.

Based on the demos, Octopath Traveler seems to have a similar aim relative to other JRPGs (though without full knowledge of the plot, it's hard to say for sure). Compared to other settings, Orsterra seems more historical than fantasy, and more mundane than epic. Though some of the protagonists, like Primrose and Olberic, look to have the sorts of grand destinies that often come with JRPGs (or Arthurian legend), others like Tressa and Alfyn are just normal people living in Orsterra. The stakes of their quests are small in scale, rather than for the fate of the world or the like (as far as we know, anyway). You can also see the focus on ordinary life in the backstories given to the world's NPCs, seen using Cyrus or Alfyn's path abilities.

Along with that, there's also very little that's supernatural in Octopath's story, at least so far. Although most of the characters can cast magic in combat, nothing in the narrative suggests that any of the characters besides Ophilia have any actual magical powers in the game's story. The only overt magic in the narrative I can remember from the demo is the golem that Ophilia fights.

Having said all this, I do think it'd be a bit of a stretch to try and tie all of that directly to The Canterbury Tales. There are plenty of other reasons the developers might have taken a relatively realistic approach to their setting. However, the similarities are definitely there, and I think it'll be even more interesting to analyze them once the game is out.

One last note: Ophilia, the canonical first protagonist, is on an actual pilgrimage, so you could also think of the protagonists of Octopath Traveler as a company of pilgrims in a sense.

Thank you for inspiring me! And hahaha, I feel as though I missed the forest for the trees by failing to draw that comparison. Excellent contribution!

Great point about Ophilia, too, considering she might be the loosely canon protagonist, being the first letter in "OCTOPATH." (Ophilia -> Cyrus -> Tressa -> Olberic -> Primrose -> Alfyn -> Therion -> H'aanit.)