Odyssey and BotW are great, but not better than 64 and OOT.

[Owari]

I've been seeing this sentiment pop up occasionally and it's a bit frustrating.These Switch games are great, possibly instant classics, but they don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

There are so many small things from the classic games that would vastly improve the new ones, such as Mario power ups like the fire flower or tanooki in Odyssey, or the Ocarina or Hookshot in BotW. Omitting these things seems shortsighted, and ultimately leads me to think of these games as less than their predecessors.

Maybe VC was held off until the end of the year because they knew people would buy the classics over the new stuff. Who knows.

Thoughts?

 

[Atheerios]

Uhm, they were pretty revolutionary back in the day and are pretty good yeah, but it just seems like you are blinded by nostalgia.

Also Mario 64 doesn't have those power ups neither.

Also nobody is going to buy a VC release of M64 before Odyssey (if they have to choose either one). Nobody.

 

[Deleted member 249]

Breath of the Wild is absolutely better than Ocarina of Time.
I haven't decided on Odyssey yet.

Also, the VC 'conspiracy' theory is literally absurd.

EDIT: BotW lacking the Ocarina or Hookshot makes it 'less' of a game than Ocarina? Does lacking Magnesis and Stasis make Ocarina less of a game than BotW, by that measure?

And lol, 64 didn't have the Fire Flower or Tanooki Suit either... did you think this through?

 

[bigdaddy]

Omitting these things seems shortsighted

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It's intentional. Breath of the Wild in particular doesn't need the hookshot because you can climb, the hookshot would make climbing pointless.

 

[CQC]

As someone who has played all of the 3D Zeldas for the first time, except BOTW, in the past five years. OoT is sits at an "okay" for me and is at the bottom for me when it comes to 3D Zeldas. Hot take: Nostalgia does a lot for OoT.

Majora's Mask is the GOAT.

 

[Shivers]

nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but thats all it is.

 

[AerialFox]

Gotta take off those rose tinted glasses pal

 

[Zalman]

The old games were obviously more groundbreaking, but I think the newer ones are far better. They've had decades to fine-tune the formulas and it shows.

 

[Atheerios]

Majora's Mask is the GOAT.

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Nostalgia also does a lot for MM. Played it for the first time on 3DS and absolutely hated the 3 day system. The least enjoyable Zelda I've ever played.

 

[Owari]

It's intentional. Breath of the Wild in particular doesn't need the hookshot because you can climb, the hookshot would make climbing pointless.

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When it's not raining, something the Sun's Song would fix.

 

[Askherserenity]

What...your reasons are the fire flower and tanooki when in Odyssey you have so much more interesting abilities to work with.

Same thing for your Zelda items. The abilities they give you in BotW are vastly more enjoyable and dynamic to use.

Maybe you should list better reasons because your argument is pretty weak.

 

[Owari]

The old games were obviously more groundbreaking, but I think the newer ones are far better. They've had decades to fine-tune the formulas and it shows.

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I just don't think the possession shit in Odyssey is a valid replacement for power ups. The game could have easily had both and feels very half baked to me.

 

[Imran]

I've been seeing this sentiment pop up occasionally and it's a bit frustrating.These Switch games are great, possibly instant classics, but they don't hold a candle to their predecessors.

There are so many small things from the classic games that would vastly improve the new ones, such as Mario power ups like the fire flower or tanooki in Odyssey, or the Ocarina or Hookshot in BotW. Omitting these things seems shortsighted, and ultimately leads me to think of these games as less than their predecessors.

Maybe VC was held off until the end of the year because they knew people would buy the classics over the new stuff. Who knows.

Thoughts?

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But

64 didn't have the Tanooki Suit or Fireflower

 

[Deleted member 249]

When it's not raining, something the Sun's Song would fix.

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Now you moved on to rain? lmao man, I don't think you have a coherent take here, other than you like OoT and SM64 more, presumably cause nostalgia.

 

[Khanimus]

64 and OOT are obviously influential and revolutionary for what they did, but that doesn't mean they aged flawlessly.

 

[Waxy]

While I love both OoT and Mario 64 (OoT was my favorite game ever before BotW), I think its hard to argue they are actually better than BotW and Odyssey thanks to the 20 years of improvements brought to both franchises. Now if you were to say SMG 1 and 2 are better than Odyssey that would make a better arguement imo.

 

[Shroki]

I just don't think the possession shit in Odyssey is a valid replacement for power ups. The game could have easily had both and feels very half baked to me.

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It seems weird to have this chief complaint and praise 64, which only had a few sparsely used power-ups that granted less remarkable changes to the playstyle than Cappy does.

I don't particularly feel the need to measure the dicks of two all time classics against two of the best modern games. I'd rather just play all four and be happy in life.

 

[CQC]

Nostalgia also does a lot for MM. Played it for the first time on 3DS and absolutely hated the 3 day system. The least enjoyable Zelda I've ever played.

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I played it for the first time last year on the 3DS right after finishing OoT 3DS. Nostalgia has nothing to do with it when it comes to me.

 

[Owari]

But

64 didn't have the Tanooki Suit or Fireflower

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You know what I mean. At least it had power ups. Something every mario game has except odyssey.

 

[StraySheep]

In my opinion, Odyssey is at least better than 64 if not all the other 3D Mario games. Its easy to compare them because it's a very similar game.

Meanwhile BotW sacrifices too much of what I like about 3D Zelda to where I would indeed put it below OoT and the games the followed.

 

[Stopmotionkai]

I cannot agree, having played most Zelda Games in one go a few years back, i cannot say that anything from ocarina would improve on Botw . I think nostalgia is playing a big factor in your conclusion.

 

[Askherserenity]

You know what I mean. At least it had power ups. Something every mario game has except odyssey.

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But it's the same shit.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

There are so many small things from the classic games that would vastly improve the new ones, such as Mario power ups like the fire flower or tanooki in Odyssey

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Why would the inclusion of traditional powerups improve the game in any way from a design perspective, when the game is already designed around a hat throw that doubles as conventional (and unconventional) powerups already?

I don't see why you think less of these games simply for lacking things you think *should* be there when there's no real reason for them to have been there.

 

[Khanimus]

You know what I mean. At least it had power ups. Something every mario game has except odyssey.

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Except everything you capture can operate as a power-up.

 

[Kaeden]

Frustrating because some people might like the newer titles than the old ones? I'm not sure that's how you should be looking at it. They can still be great for you, but why would people applauding the new titles over the old take away from your enjoyment?

And it's kinda weird to think these could be considered instant classics as you say yet still not 'hold a candle to their predecessor.'

I don't know why we always have to put games into an order of best to worst, etc. because all 4 of these games are great.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

You know what I mean. At least it had power ups. Something every mario game has except odyssey.

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And so does Odyssey. Oddysey has many more than 64 did. You acquire them by throwing your hat at creatures instead of hitting a switch and/or a block. That is the point of captures. They are this game's power up mechanic.

 

[Owari]

I cannot agree, having played most Zelda Games in one go a few years back, i cannot say that anything from ocarina would improve on Botw . I think nostalgia is playing a big factor in your conclusion.

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I disagree. Having an Ocarina to call a horse right away, or turn off and on the rain would be great. Ditto for the hookshot, as climbing is 0 fun and takes forever. (Impossible in the rain)

 

[Midas]

nostalgia is a wonderful thing, but thats all it is.

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Pretty much. Ocarina is a steaming pile of shit compared to Breath of the Wild. Even when you look at its shortcomings.

 

[Imran]

You know what I mean. At least it had power ups. Something every mario game has except odyssey.

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What is functionally different about the capture mechanic

No one is understanding you because you're yelling about surface level differences

 

[FUNKNOWN iXi]

It's intentional. Breath of the Wild in particular doesn't need the hookshot because you can climb, the hookshot would make climbing pointless.

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No it wouldn't. The range could be limited, as well as being restricted to one hookshot then having to climb the rest. Any number of ways it could be designed.

BotW's formula could be very interesting with a hookshot.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

No one is understanding you because you're yelling about surface level differences

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Pretty much this

 

[Owari]

And so does Odyssey. Oddysey has many more than 64 did. You acquire them by throwing your hat at creatures instead of hitting a switch and/or a block.

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I've alresdy went over the fact that I don't think those are power ups. Many are region specific, for one. Where as power ups wouldn't be. It's stupid to omit something so integral to the series.

 

[playXray]

I agree with the OP - all the games you mentioned are amazing, but I think the 64 ones have the edge for me.

 

[Imran]

I disagree. Having an Ocarina to call a horse right away, or turn off and on the rain would be great. Ditto for the hookshot, as climbing is 0 fun and takes forever. (Impossible in the rain)

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I climbed up the entire mountain bordering the Zora Village during the perma-rain from behind

So, probably not impossible?

 

[HardTimesFamilyPride]

The main theme I'm picking up on here is "where are my tropes?"

 

[Barn]

For as long as I can recall, gaming fans seem really hung up on superlatives -- you can't go a day without seeing "the best of all time" this or "better than" that. Not to be too hard on you, OP, but Ocarina, Super Mario 64, Breath of the Wild, and Odyssey were different games for different times. The former two also had such a significant influence on modern game design that it's hard to just shed that baggage when weighing them.

Maybe VC was held off until the end of the year because they knew people would buy the classics over the new stuff.

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This, I guarantee you, is not the reality of the situation.

 

[Imran]

I've alresdy went over the fact that I don't think those are power ups. Many are region specific, for one. Where as power ups wouldn't be. It's stupid to omit something so integral to the series.

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They were region-specific in 64, Sunshine, and Galaxy 1 & 2.

 

[Deleted member 249]

I've alresdy went over the fact that I don't think those are power ups. Many are region specific, for one. Where as power ups wouldn't be. It's stupid to omit something so integral to the series.

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Your argument is 'new games don't have this.'

People point out they do.

You: 'Well, I don't think this counts.'

What kind of discussion exactly are you hoping took have?

 

[Owari]

Pretty much. Ocarina is a steaming pile of shit compared to Breath of the Wild. Even when you look at its shortcomings.

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Ocarina is actually fun, a game that makes you want to finish it due to an actual story. Botw can't be finished without a guide and a million hours for virtually no story payoff.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

No it wouldn't. The range could be limited, as well as being restricted to one hookshot then having to climb the rest. Any number of ways it could be designed.

BotW's formula could be very interesting with a hookshot.

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It's probably good that they fleshed out BoTW's systems the way they did. I don't see why a hookshot couldn't be in a sequel, now that BoTW's central mechanics have been polished and set in stone, but, in the OP's case, I don't understand expecting a hookshot with such fervor that a game lacking it is a sign of laziness or ineptitude.

 

[Imran]

Ocarina is actually fun, a game that makes you want to finish it. Botw can't be finished without a guide and a million hours.

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Wh

What

 

[Askherserenity]

I disagree. Having an Ocarina to call a horse right away, or turn off and on the rain would be great. Ditto for the hookshot, as climbing is 0 fun and takes forever. (Impossible in the rain)

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You can whistle for your horse whenever.

And it's not impossible to climb while it's raining.

 

[Deleted member 249]

Ocarina is actually fun, a game that makes you want to finish it due to an actual story. Botw can't be finished without a guide and a million hours for virtually no story payoff.

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Finished BotW in 60 hours and with no guide. Maybe I am just a genius though

 

[Deleted member 20852]

I think it's perfectly fine to prefer the N64 entries over the Switch ones, but your argument for it doesn't really hold water. They are different games with different mechanics, and simply moving some specific powerups or items to the other wouldn't work.

Odyssey has the capture mechanic as its powerups, and simply adding fire flowers or metal hats to the mix would over-complicate it. There are already enemies that give you the ability to throw fire balls or another that makes you heavier.

As for Breath of the WIld, I guess a hookshot could work. But so could the climbing mechanics and paraglider and a massive overworld in Ocarina of Time, so is it the worse game? The answer is, of course, that not necessarily. Just like it isn't necessarily the better game because it has some mechanics that could improve BotW.

 

[NuclearCake]

OOT was not even the best Zelda when it released. BOTW finally feels like the direction the series should have gone in after a Link To The Past. Mario 64 was a revolutionary game but elements of it are certainly dated in 2017. Odyssey has plenty of power ups they just come in a different form with the capture ability, it also help that none of the power ups are on a timer like in 64. Comparing these games is no contest Odyssey and BOTW are miles better.

 

[GiantEnemyGoomba]

100% disagree with Odyssey being worse. It does pretty much everything better than 64, especially having consistently good platforming thanks to Mario's incredible move set and feel.

Very interested in seeing how much I like BotW when I finally get it next month. OoT is such a superb Zelda game that's aged very well.

 

[Khanimus]

I disagree. Having an Ocarina to call a horse right away, or turn off and on the rain would be great. Ditto for the hookshot, as climbing is 0 fun and takes forever. (Impossible in the rain)

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You couldn't call a horse right away in OOT - you had to go through a fairly lengthy quest that didn't conclude until atleast the halfway mark. In fact, considering how small Hyrule is in OOT, the horse isn't even useful save for some sidequests. Whereas you have a horse you can ride mere minutes after leaving the plateau in BOTW

 

[Owari]

The main theme I'm picking up on here is "where are my tropes?"

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Maybe the industry shouldn't throw the bath out with the bath water just because people bitch about tropes so much.

There's elements that are supposed to make these series special that aren't there in the new games.

 

[Imran]

"I only like games that have stories with payoffs.

Also Mario 64 is the best."

 

[D.Lo]

I mean the older games were definitely 'better for their time'. Those games were the peak in technical design at their time as well as overall game design.

The new ones are brilliantly designed games, but iterative in many ways. They're obviously 'better' having many modern mod cons and more advanced tech over games from the 90s however.