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Official PlayStation Next-Gen plans (2020, Wired Exclusive Article) [ Ray Tracing, BC, SSD, & more]

mutantmagnet

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
So far the specs sound great. I was really concerned that they wouldn't offer BWC at launch but now I can play a bunch of PS4 games that I missed out on. Now I hope there are certain creature comforts in place.

I don't want this console to sound like an overheating laptop running dual 96mm fans.

I think it would be great if the PS5 had a second hard drive space and both slots were hot swappable.

If they do add a second hard drive slot I want the powersupply to be internal.

I hope they continue to offer move controllers and actually revise it for their next PSVR experience.


This console needs to support games preset to 90 or 120 fps in addition to freesync.
 
blastprocessor

blastprocessor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,884
The guy that bought 3 PS3's then bought 4 PS4's is going to have to buy 5 PS5's now. It's going to be an expensive month for him.
 
gozu

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,312
America
John Frost said:
Holy shit Cerny the liar!
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He either lied about the PS5 SSD, or the PS5 SSD drive can beat Macbook nvme drives. Over 2 Gigabytes per second.

Durante mentioned earlier that his own is at 6GB/s+, over 10 times faster the fastest SATA drive in existence.

Obviously Cerny excluded those. Maybe he was only thinking laptops?

If that's the case, I say to you that if Cerny is not being a lying ass bitch (and pretending NVME doesn't exist) then at that speed, any game should be launched in less than 10 seconds because that's enough to load up ALL the RAM (assuming the PS5 has 20GB of ram for the game). Good devs will use lazy loading techniques to cut that down by at least half, leading us to loading times not seen since the N64. Wouldn't that be crazy?

I realize this requires some optimization but damn! I definitely expect 2-3 second loads, much more easily hidden than in today's games (making you go slowly in a crevasse is an old favorite).
 

Deleted member 40133

User requested account closure
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Feb 19, 2018
6,095
Gamer17 said:
they have 8 GB HBM2 and 12 GB ddr4 for games. 20 GB HBM2 is so expensive . they are much happier with performance of ddr4+hbm2 VS GDDR6 . they said it is expensive now but sony expects it to go down quicker than GDDR6 prices
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I am but a humble enthusiast so I don't even understand how gddr4 and hbm2 would work together. Would it not make things more complicated hardware and programing wise? How much better would it be than gddr6. Also...I am suddenly reminded that their have been several rumors of ps5 having 880gbps of bandwidth and people not being able to wrap their heads around how that could be possible ...could this combo explain that?
 
STech

STech

Member
Sep 24, 2018
1,735
What could be the advantages of having split memory with HBM2 and DDR4 instead a pool of GDDR6?
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
gozu said:
He either lied about the PS5 SSD, or the PS5 SSD drive can beat Macbook nvme drives. Over 2 Gigabytes per second.

Durante mentioned earlier that his own is at 6GB/s+, over 10 times faster the fastest SATA drive in existence.

Obviously Cerny excluded those. Maybe he was only thinking laptops?

If that's the case, I say to you that if Cerny is not being a lying ass bitch (and pretending NVME doesn't exist) then at that speed, any game should be launched in less than 10 seconds because that's enough to load up ALL the RAM (assuming the PS5 has 20GB of ram for the game). Good devs will use lazy loading techniques to cut that down by at least half, leading us to loading times not seen since the N64. Wouldn't that be crazy?

I realize this requires some optimization but damn! I definitely expect 2-3 second loads, much more easily hidden than in today's games (making you go slowly in a crevasse is an old favorite).
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Faster speeds, higher bandwidth, and more space means that more of a game can be loaded in at once, or rather preloaded. So the .8 second load time is accurate in the new hardware, the combo of the SSD and the new RAM and CPU let more of Manhattan (all of it?) be loaded into the RAM on the fly.
 
Saint-14

Saint-14

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
14,477
gozu said:
He either lied about the PS5 SSD, or the PS5 SSD drive can beat Macbook nvme drives. Over 2 Gigabytes per second.

Durante mentioned earlier that his own is at 6GB/s+, over 10 times faster the fastest SATA drive in existence.

Obviously Cerny excluded those. Maybe he was only thinking laptops?

If that's the case, I say to you that if Cerny is not being a lying ass bitch (and pretending NVME doesn't exist) then at that speed, any game should be launched in less than 10 seconds because that's enough to load up ALL the RAM (assuming the PS5 has 20GB of ram for the game). Good devs will use lazy loading techniques to cut that down by at least half, leading us to loading times not seen since the N64. Wouldn't that be crazy?

I realize this requires some optimization but damn! I definitely expect 2-3 second loads, much more easily hidden than in today's games (making you go slowly in a crevasse is an old favorite).
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So currently with such a drive PC games with fast travel take less than a second? is there anywhere to see that?
 
Temascos

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,501
Reading about all the great tech and load time potential is exciting, but it does lead me to wonder about the cost of developing games, at our current state it is bloody massive, and it is only going to get bigger. That means not only more risk for developers and publishers, but it will also take a lot longer to make the games. I think the AAA gaming landscape is starting to become unsustainable on that front which means the pursuit of massive, high fidelity,open worlds will start to diminish.

Hopefully we will get to see Sony steadily release titles from their first party teams that haven't announced stuff in ages, and that the development pipeline is a bit easier to work with than it was adjusting from PS3 to PS4, I think that took up a lot of time for the teams.
 
ThisThingIsUseful

ThisThingIsUseful

Member
Oct 31, 2017
12,069
With streaming services trying to reduce the barrier of entry, I feel 399 would be best.

Part of that is just my hope lol. But I remember many many people guessing that the PS4 would be at least 500 and sounded very expensive.
 
ffvorax

ffvorax

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,855
I liked everything that he said, in particular the PSVR compatibility! <3
If even PS4 games will be playable, then it will be a dayone purchase for me.

But I'm still cautious, things can still change when the console will be actually delivered for the market.

EDIT:
Oh, I HOPE they will have also a better solution to cooling the system... my PS4 PRO is definetly too loud with some games...
 
JayWood2010

JayWood2010

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,120
Something to remember about the size of HDD's and SSD's is how past consoles have launched.


Correct me If I am wrong on any of this, as im going off memory alone

Xbox One and PS4 launched with a 500gb HDD. Now they have expanded to 1tb with more recent models

PS3 launched with a 20 or 40gb HDD? It later went to 80gb then to 120gb. X360 was similar

PS5 and the Next Xbox will likely release with 1tb SSD, and while games are going to be bigger and it wont take long to fill up that space it fits in line with how they have done it in the past. They will likely expand on SSD later in the generation with newer releases. Dont get too caught up on game size. Right now they are going to focus on keeping the cost down.
 
Gamer17

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
The Emperor said:
I hope not. I understand companies often do this. Just the last time SONY did they never quite recovered in terms of 'finances' in that generation. And PS4 has been so insanely profitable.
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That was 300$ in 2006 .they were taking a loss of around 300$ .they will be fine now with 100$ specially with PSN being this giant money making machine it has become
 
Kage Maru

Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,804
SG-17 said:
Game purchase transfers? You mean moving your digital stuff from PS4 to PS5? It's probably going to be no different than moving from PS4 to PS4 Pro.
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I really hope this is the case. Would make it easier to keep PT on my system =p

SG-17 said:
Current PS2 Classics on PS4 will work on PS5. I don't know if we will get digital BC for PS1 and PS2 beyond a handful of Classics due to licensing, but maybe, just maybe, we might get disc based BC. That should, in theory, not need to worry about licensing.
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Are you guessing or getting this info from somewhere? I want you to be right, I just don't want to get my hopes up just for them to be crushed.

Raide said:
Nothing said at this point. Even a 500gb one would be a touch too small but, price wise, is probably more likely.
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I can't see them using anything smaller than 1TB. 500GB just doesn't seem like it would cut with with the larger next gen games.
 
CampFreddie

CampFreddie

A King's Landing
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Oct 25, 2017
2,952
The specs sounds crazy-good compared to the PS4/XBone.
They used a lot of PC architecture, with budget CPUs, a budget SATA HDD and a decent entry-level GPU.

The PS5 sounds far more ambitious. Ray tracing requires some top-end GPUs. It seems to cause a huge performance hit even on mid-high-end cards like the 2060.
The SSD is perhaps the trickiest part. A custom SSD means no user-replacement. And it's expensive so it won't be a multi-TB drive.
They might use a regular M2 drive, but they are still going to be expensive. And they get really hot, which is going to be an issue in a poorly ventillated console.
And again, how do you increase storage? You can't connect an external drive since SATA/USB3 will be way too slow.
Maybe they will actually end up using something like that ATI hybrid storage system (from their newer mobos) where you can link the SSD drive and another drive to cache the important stuff. It'd cause a few issues like a slow initial load when you swap games - but it could be the only way to allow you to have PCIE4x speeds and also have several installed games in a generation where 100GB installs will be normal.

Doing it all at a reasonable price is going to be very hard.
 
WhtR88t

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,579
Hate said:
That's a question I've been asking since the PS4 Pro released. Why do games prior to the PS4 Pro release need a patch on a game by game basis just to fully make use of the increased power. They released the boost mode but it's not a great way of utilizing the upgrades.

The best example of this is Bloodbourne. It doesn't have a pro patch even now. You can use boost mode but it just decreases fps dips. Nothing else.
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It's because developers pick the settings for the game they think give the best visuals/frame rate for the target console it's running on. Unless the console was available at the release of the game they have no idea what to enable/disable for the new console and thus the game needs to be "updated". I just imagine it kind of like a pre-set of the craziness you see when you open a PC games settings with a bunch of toggles/switches/options. We're starting to see some of this surface with things like "performance mode" and stuff, but the goal is to still keep it super simple for console players.
 
WhtR88t

WhtR88t

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May 14, 2018
4,579
I'm wondering if the audio hub bub is also about enabling more audio channels via hardware. How many simultaneous channels did we go from between PS3 and PS4?

Channels meaning objects on screen emitting sounds- I believe that is somewhat restrictive currently.
 
Keuja

Keuja

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Oct 27, 2017
2,183
I'm actually most excited about the VR and how they can bring it to the next level, Ready Player One style.
 
Electro

Electro

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Oct 25, 2017
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Keuja said:
I'm actually most excited about the VR and how they can bring it to the next level, Ready Player One style.
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badcrumble

badcrumble

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Oct 25, 2017
3,730
I think backwards compatibility will obviously have some inbuilt costs of development (largely QA stuff and constantly improving compatibility), but (if they're already including full PS4 BC, and assuming backwards compatibility for other systems does not require specialty hardware a la the 60GB PS3) I think there's very little theoretical *opportunity* cost to including PS1/2/3/P/V BC at this point. I don't see that somehow leaving a bunch of remaster money on the table now that most of those games are quite old.

BossAttack said:
*Yawn*

Speak to me when they reveal PS1-PS3 backwards compatibility and game purchase transfers.
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I wouldn't expect e.g. being able to transfer discs to digital ownership (even with a small fee attached), but I could see backwards compatibility with downloadable PS3 titles being a thing (and both disc-based and downloadable backwards compatibility for PS1/2/4 titles).

PS3 architecture is unique enough that I suspect it'll have to be title-by-title backwards compatibility if it happens, though, and/so I wouldn't expect it to be compatible with PS3 discs.
ULTROS! said:
It'll be great if we can get digital PSP and PSV BC.
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Agreed. Especially if Sony's no longer pushing their own handheld, I think they have zero reason not to fold those libraries into things playable on the PS5.
 
Diarrhea Day-Lewis

Diarrhea Day-Lewis

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Oct 27, 2017
20,755
The Emperor said:
I hope not. I understand companies often do this. Just the last time SONY did they never quite recovered in terms of 'finances' in that generation. And PS4 has been so insanely profitable.
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To be fair at that time they didn't have PS+ or PS Now profits to make up for losses

Either way Sony forecasted losses 19-21 so I'd expect some loss.

Whether it's $100 on a $500 device or $100 on a $400 device idk
 
TyMiles2012

TyMiles2012

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Mar 26, 2018
101
ULTROS! said:
It'll be great if we can get digital PSP and PSV BC.
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Ditto. If there's one thing Sony NEEDS to nail right at the beginning, it's fan service. The PSN name change, PS4 BC, and I assume PS1-PS3 as well knowing there was a patent regarding emulation, is all a great start. It almost sounds too good to be true, honestly, but Microsoft has really been pushing for fan service so Sony would have to one up them. Unboxing my PS5 with whatever launch exclusives I pick up, plus being able to throw in my SMT3 disc (Hopefully if we get physical disc support like PS3) or download Demon's Souls or P4G sounds like a dream.
 
Vex

Vex

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Oct 25, 2017
22,213
Raytracing?!?! What a time to be alive!!

I never thought I'd see the day where id be able to do this on a PlayStation.
 
nextJin

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
455
Georgia
Nothing said:
hint: it won't be

we won't be getting a large $200+ SSD as part of our console purchase. HDD space is the first cost-saving corner they cut during every major console release! Hundreds of dollars are not going to be tied up into a SSD.

At best you'd be hoping for a 1tb SATA SSD which run around $100. But that's not going to happen. It's going to be some sort of hybrid flash memory system where the small, fast part loads the current game and then there's a larger repository of storage somewhere.
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I really don't think they are going that route. Sure I'm arm chairing but something tells me they are going to abandon spindle drives entirely because that extra 20-40 bucks can go towards a larger SSD on the m.2 format. Not to mention the cost savings by console size being smaller and no SATA port.

I'm assuming they will use a PCIE 4.0 interface with a 1TB QLC drive. For game storage that is perfectly fine and they can have 10-15% partitioned for maintenance.

It's realistic and reasonable while allowing crazy enthusiasts to put 2+ TB Samsung 980 Pro drives in if they choose.

Going with an optane type solution doesn't make sense to me (or using an SSHD) because of various shortfalls that could cause game breaking bugs. If a game is cached it's fine, but I don't play one game at a time I play multiple games at any given time. My SSHD makes it obvious which ones are cached and which ones aren't.

From what Mark Cerny was saying it sounds like it "could" be a thing that developers use to build worlds. Imagine Spider-Man 2 where he can travel much faster on the PS5 but because it's not cached as I move the city is literally still being drawn to the screen and I die because enemies kill me before they are even rendered.
 
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