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RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
So what they were saying about asset streaming with the CPU and SSD makes me think open-world games next-gen will see yet another upgrade.

I think Cerny said on this hardware you could move through Spider-Man's New York at the speed of a jet fighter without the performance faltering. To me that sounds like bigger open-world games or greater draw distances in open-world games.

Might we start seeing console games that look like this?

PiwAO2P.jpg

This is Arma 3 at what I believe is max draw distance, which is something like 25km. Now, at this setting most computers will run the game at like 18fps if they don't crash outright. Usually in normal gameplay you keep the setting at like 3km, if even that, and it looks perfectly fine unless you go high up in an aircraft, at which point it looks like you're in the middle of a moving cone of fog. Other factors affecting your experience are the fact that this game keeps trying to simulate ballistics and AI even for stuff going on miles away from the player character. And all the buildings have interiors. It's like the game is trying to run Ace Combat and Battlefield at the same time.

The limiting factors in Arma 3's case are the CPU (it mainly uses one thread) and memory speed. These are the exact parameters the so-far-revealed PS5 hardware seems to address.
 

Wandu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,163
MS will probably blow their load talking about the next xbone at E3 b/c it's not like they are still trying to sell massive amounts of current xbones now being probably at 50 million so like 45 million behind PS4
More like ~43-45 million.
They're actually less than 1:2 worldwide. They're at ~40-45M ish.

I like how within 3 months of getting a pretty good estimate of 41 million XB1 units from ZhugeEx that they magically got 2-8 million units sold within that time frame to hit those projections ya'll got. I mean, from averaging 6.5 million units per year to getting 8 million in 3 months. I just dont know what to say to that.

Here is the link btw: https://www.resetera.com/threads/de...-game-of-december.95119/page-14#post-17170590
 
Oct 31, 2017
9,627
So what they were saying about asset streaming with the CPU and SSD makes me think open-world games next-gen will see yet another upgrade.

I think Cerny said on this hardware you could move through Spider-Man's New York at the speed of a jet fighter without the performance faltering. To me that sounds like bigger open-world games or greater draw distances in open-world games.

Might we start seeing console games that look like this?



This is Arma 3 at what I believe is max draw distance, which is something like 25km. Now, at this setting most computers will run the game at like 18fps if they don't crash outright. Usually in normal gameplay you keep the setting at like 3km, if even that, and it looks perfectly fine unless you go high up in an aircraft, at which point it looks like you're in the middle of a moving cone of fog. Other factors affecting your experience are the fact that this game keeps trying to simulate ballistics and AI even for stuff going on miles away from the player character. And all the buildings have interiors. It's like the game is trying to run Ace Combat and Battlefield at the same time.

The limiting factors in Arma 3's case are the CPU (it mainly uses one thread) and memory speed. These are the exact parameters the so-far-revealed PS5 hardware seems to address.

Yeah, I think this is exactly the kind of thing he means in how it can alter games and their design.

Consider Sony's flagship first party games like The Last of Us and God of War and how those games design their environments and funnel the player in order to obscure loading. These kinds of developmental tricks to push 3D graphical fidelity while minimalizing loads has been something Sony, and in particular Mark Cerny, has been keen on since the original Playstation, going back to the Crash Bandicoot and Spyro the Dragon games.
 

bsigg

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,556
Next gen is starting to take shape, and it's very exciting. So far

Switch
7th/8th gen power in a hybrid console
Cheap
Labo Peripheral

PS5 (Late 2020)
SSD
3D Sound
PS4 Backward Compatibility
VR Peripheral

Xbox Two
Two form factors (Cheap streaming version and Expensive non-streaming version)

2 consoles and a streaming stick. Lockhart and Anaconda are slated to be normal, local consoles.
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
I read that putting a 4k blu ray player in the PS4 pro would only have increased the price by $20 and Sony wasn't willing to do that, so i have my doubts to them taking $50-$100 losses on every PS5. I think they'd rather sell it at cost, especially since the PS4 will be an effective safety net for them if the PS5 gets off to a slow start.
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
Do you guys think PS5 will also have an auxiliary processor (ARM) like PS4 did? That chip that manages downloads and other OS stuff.
 

Nothing

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,095
I read that putting a 4k blu ray player in the PS4 pro would only have increased the price by $20 and Sony wasn't willing to do that, so i have my doubts to them taking $50-$100 losses on every PS5. I think they'd rather sell it at cost, especially since the PS4 will be an effective safety net for them if the PS5 gets off to a slow start.
Sony is more interested in selling the x700 and x800 stand-alone 4K UHD players for $200-300 was why.
 

Son Goku

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,332
I read that putting a 4k blu ray player in the PS4 pro would only have increased the price by $20 and Sony wasn't willing to do that, so i have my doubts to them taking $50-$100 losses on every PS5. I think they'd rather sell it at cost, especially since the PS4 will be an effective safety net for them if the PS5 gets off to a slow start.
Pro wasn't staking things out for next gen
 

Son Goku

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,332
Can't wait to 'hear' the sound of Kratos's axe coming back :D
I hope they integrate that into the current platinum headset

I would love get better sound output out of my blue yeti and platinum headset combo. Right now my voice is a little scratchy on it on my YouTube videos and of course what I actually hear in the headphones could sound even better with this new system
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
I'm actually also really, really excited at the prospects of having next-gen VR. I'm so glad they remain fully committed, it's by far the most 'next-gen' feature out there in my opinion and it's only getting better.
I don't know why but I've been growing more and more curious about VR in the past few days / weeks. It seems like waiting for PS5 and PSVR2 would be the logical option at this point.
 

Callibretto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,493
Indonesia
I don't know why but I've been growing more and more curious about VR in the past few days / weeks. It seems like waiting for PS5 and PSVR2 would be the logical option at this point.
If I am Sony, I'd stagger the release of PSVR2 in 2 steps. Release a new motion controller at ps5 launch or near it. So psvr1 headset + new motion controller + ps5 hardware will be our stopgap psvr gen 1.5.

Then 2 or 3 years into ps5, release a new headset. This will be similar with Sony strategy for psvr1 where ps move and camera is already available when the headset is out.
 

Crayon

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,580
If they do spring 2020 and Xbox is holiday, I could see Sony launching at $499 in April but then dropping price to $399 in October/November. Make a $500 console and sell at cost, then $100ish loss after price cut

Especially if there is a $350 Xbox Lockhart that will help PS5 buzz stay up despite Xbox coming out. Would be like PS2s May 2002 price cut or PS1s May 1996 cut

Maybe not a cut, but a fat 399 promo for the holidays? That doesn't sound too bad.
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
So what Cerny is describing here is also equal to what people expect for the more powerful Xbox right? And the cheaper Xbox will be.. more like a half-step between the XB1 X and the Anaconda?
 

ArkhamFantasy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,550
Not to be that guy but did I hope they address the fan noise. It is my biggest complaint with the PS4 Pro.

You aren't being nit picky, it's a major problem. My launch PS4 literally is as loud as a hair dryer on a low setting, i gave it to my brother when i got my PS4 pro and he doesn't like playing games on it because its so loud.
 

Arta

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,445
With those speedy load times could you imagine fighting games online, just zipping from one fight to the next?
 

vivftp

Member
Oct 29, 2017
19,763
Love the unpredictable marketing at play here. At this rate I don't think Sony will reveal the actual PS5 console at a press event, instead it'll be revealed and featured heavily in the movie Bad Boys 3 and be a central plot point of the film.

:D
 

xxracerxx

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
31,222
I read that putting a 4k blu ray player in the PS4 pro would only have increased the price by $20 and Sony wasn't willing to do that, so i have my doubts to them taking $50-$100 losses on every PS5. I think they'd rather sell it at cost, especially since the PS4 will be an effective safety net for them if the PS5 gets off to a slow start.
Mid gen is not like new gen.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,061
Cheaper Xbox is apparently less powerful in terms of GPU tech than One X.

Really? I thought the implication was the "cheaper next Xbox" would use the same GPU as the Xbox One X.

And then from there people started speculating that it would combine that Xbox One X GPU with whatever new CPU the "main" next-gen Xbox would use, and that this, combined with developers being allowed to make games which require that model at minimum, would still make a huge difference over current gen. Remember, the Xbox One X is still held back by the original Xbox One.
 

Inuhanyou

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,214
New Jersey
10tf minimum and 14tf max, I'd say. 12tf is what I suspect.

My guess is the GPU will be above 10 tflops but below 11. I think they will really try and minimize the GPU footprint to leave room for the CPU and other components, so trying to push the GPU will be a lesser priority. No matter what they settle on clockwiise for that GPU, its gonna be a generational leap over base PS4 and have abilities far beyond what we are seeing with the iterative units. Its not something they need to push along with compute units to make up for a deficient CPU like current gen
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,344
America
I wasn't expecting Ray-Tracing hardware. Seemed a waste of silicon before Sony mentioned it being used for audio immersion (audio rays).

GPU Flops were conspicuously absent, which is evidence the GPU jump is quite small. Maybe 5-6x jump. Not 8x.

There will probably be a VR headset at launch or during the 12-month launch window. Probably equal or slightly better than the Valve Index. They told people they can still use the old one but it'll look like shit by 2021, let's be real. So if they have many VR titles planned for next-gen (bold move but believable!) they will need a headset.

the console design is what i wanted. Cerny is my soulmate.
 

Bunzy

Banned
Nov 1, 2018
2,205
With those speedy load times could you imagine fighting games online, just zipping from one fight to the next?


SFV's load times being reduced to instant matchmaking was the first thing coming to my mind when reading article

You realize how many more games you would get in an hours playtime vs what we currently have now?
 

Bunzy

Banned
Nov 1, 2018
2,205
My guess is the GPU will be above 10 tflops but below 11. I think they will really try and minimize the GPU footprint to leave room for the CPU and other components, so trying to push the GPU will be a lesser priority. No matter what they settle on clockwiise for that GPU, its gonna be a generational leap over base PS4 and have abilities far beyond what we are seeing with the iterative units. Its not something they need to push along with compute units to make up for a deficient CPU like current gen


Cerny didn't mention flops cause he nor does anyone else at Sony know what it will end up being. They are hoping for the best at their set price point but until they start tapping out the wafers they don't know yields yet and how high they can clock the cpu or gpu. That's the main reason he didn't say anything
 

Datajoy

use of an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,081
Angola / Zaire border region.
If the system has 24+ GB of RAM, then could a game like Sekiro be loaded entirely into the memory to eliminate load times altogether? I member this working for Animal Crossing on the GameCube, the entire game loaded into the RAM so you could remove the disk and keep playing.
 

Pwnz

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,279
Places
Some info regarding CPU performance vs Jaguar:



Yeah, Jaguar was the old piledriver architecture which compared to Intel was so shit that AMD almost went out of business. They hired Jim keller to lead the zen design, and he's like the world's best CPU designer. Despite limited r&d funding he virtually eliminated the gap between Intel core and AMD. And zen is still iterating on initial tick tocks and may catch up with intel.
 

Equanimity

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,992
London
Really? I thought the implication was the "cheaper next Xbox" would use the same GPU as the Xbox One X.

And then from there people started speculating that it would combine that Xbox One X GPU with whatever new CPU the "main" next-gen Xbox would use, and that this, combined with developers being allowed to make games which require that model at minimum, would still make a huge difference over current gen. Remember, the Xbox One X is still held back by the original Xbox One.

I read the 4tf number in one of the Xbox threads, I'm not entirely sure if it's correct. Maybe someone can jump in if they've additional info on this matter?

As for the CPU, I've also read it would be the same across both consoles. This is essential for compatible software.
 

nextJin

Member
Mar 17, 2018
455
Georgia
As far as hardware design goes I would really like for the console to have an Xbox One X like design. In so far as the internals being so perfectly thought out and accessible.

From a purely technical standpoint PS4/Pro were fairly sophisticated but I don't believe they took longevity and dust accumulation into account with that type of setup.

MS with their X is extremely simple and whisper quiet. It's also likely a huge cost saving design because RMAs and manufacturing costs must be lower on that thing then the PS4.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,344
America
I wasn't expecting Ray-Tracing hardware. Seemed a waste of silicon before Sony mentioned it being used for audio immersion (audio rays).

GPU Flops were conspicuously absent, which is evidence the GPU jump is quite small. Maybe 5x-6x. Not 8x.

There will probably be a VR headset at launch or during the 12-month launch window. Probably better than the Valve Index. They told people they can still use the old one but it'll look like shit by 2021, let's be real. So if they have many VR titles planned for next-gen (bold move but believable!) they will need a headset.
 

gozu

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,344
America
So currently with such a drive PC games with fast travel take less than a second? is there anywhere to see that?

More like 2-3 seconds, but yeah, it's so quick i can't read the text in the loading screen in Sekiro.

To be clear, SNES games still loaded faster, but this is closer to that than it is to Disc-based or HDD-based games
 

HeWhoWalks

Member
Jan 17, 2018
2,522
I wasn't expecting Ray-Tracing hardware. Seemed a waste of silicon before Sony mentioned it being used for audio immersion (audio rays).

GPU Flops were conspicuously absent, which is evidence the GPU jump is quite small. Maybe 5x-6x. Not 8x.

I don't think a lack of spec(s) revealed (remember, no CPU clocks nor RAM type/amounts were mentioned either) is a sign of anything other than they weren't ready to disclose it.