OKC Thunder trade Russell Westbrook to Houston Rockets for Chris Paul and a bunch of picks

septmbrvrywn

Member
Dec 3, 2018
130
So many teams can at least contend this year though. Its a fucking dream come true.

Kawhi isn't particularly a favorite player of mine. But the man is at least 50% responsible for the most parity we have seen in a long ass fucking time. This season is gonna be pretty fucking crazy. There's no way to say who will win it this year honestly.
Yeah definitely, just hoping all those teams will be injury free coming into the playoffs.
 

Keuja

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,007
Kawhi is like Anakin, supremely talented but became deceitful under the influence of Uncle Palpatine. Ended up destroying the established order and brought balance to the NBA.
 

Dre3001

Member
Oct 28, 2017
535
I know on paper this looks like it should fail but aren’t Westbrook and Harden extremely close friends.

Plus they played together before and somehow managed to make it work on the Thunder so I don’t think this reunion will be as bad as people expect.
 

br0ken_shad0w

Member
Oct 27, 2017
323
Washington
Even a Rockets fan, this has all the makings of completely blowing in their face. It reeks of the Nash-era Suns trading for Shaq because the current team wasn't getting it done in the playoffs.

That being said both contracts are bad, but I do feel a bit better having early 30s Westbrook than late 30s CP3.
 

nillapuddin

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,038
Heat weren't willing to give up Bam and Herro after his killer summer league

I wanted them to go to OKC tho :( that team would be the BBNBA ambassadors.
 

fertygo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,780
Hasn’t Westbrook averaged 10+ assists for the last 3 seasons?
Westbrook assist is like the worst kind of assist because the ball stuck in his hand for so long

Its really a shame Harden off-ball skill pretty much regress to the mean now, he actually pretty ok playing offball before last 3 year or so.. now he not even bother to move if he not getting ball.
 

ccbfan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
615
Not sure the hate for this trade.

Thunder gets a full complete reset/rebuild with a shit ton of drafts picks. Chris Paul will be a better tank commander than Westbrook. Also don't under estimate many years down the line draft pick switches. Its how Danny Ainge won the Nets trade.

For Houston, they had to go for it. Is the fit terrible? Yeah but Chris Paul is only going to get worse and you don't get Superstars like Harden all the time, when you get one you need to go all in even if the odds are against you.

Neither were in a great position before the trade and both are better IMO.
 

Tron1

Member
Dec 23, 2017
4,656
Maybe it works some how.... one of them would have to take a big back seat..... that won’t be harden. That’s proven he has to get his way
 

DJwest

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,739
I'm assuming that this trade didn't happen without the green light from Harden right? I hope that he'll be able to play with Russ
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
Houston
i remember the thread when the rockets traded for CP3, a lot of the same ball hog jokes around, "how would it work" comments.
then the rockets won a franchise record 65 games, then took the warriors to game 7 and may or may not have been able to actually win game 7 with Paul healthy.

last year paul missed like half the damn season and Harden had to carry the team with Capela out too and Paul was more or less useless in the playoffs. They had to get rid of him.
 

Mansa Mufasa

Member
Jun 17, 2019
52
Presti is going to flip Paul to Miami for Picks....This dude is one of the best GMs in the league and hes cursed with Cheap Ownership. Imagine if he was working for a mid market team with owners willing to spend?
 
Oct 25, 2017
881
Is Morey trying to get D’Antoni to quit? I imagine Westbrook is not a player Mike would like coaching. Dude can’t shoot and always stands still when the ball is not in his hands.

While it’s been super effective, I don’t know why but sometimes I wonder if the excessive Harden iso/Shoot as many 3s is the type of offense Mike wants to run.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,930
Miami, FL
i remember the thread when the rockets traded for CP3, a lot of the same ball hog jokes around, "how would it work" comments.
then the rockets won a franchise record 65 games, then took the warriors to game 7 and may or may not have been able to actually win game 7 with Paul healthy.

last year paul missed like half the damn season and Harden had to carry the team with Capela out too and Paul was more or less useless in the playoffs. They had to get rid of him.
Receipts?

I don't remember those comments other than concern about an under-sized back court. CP3 has always been a willing passer and facilitator and them playing together wasn't really seen as a problem from a compatibility perspective other than CP3 sometimes being an asshole that people dislike, teammates and opposing players alike. Them working wasn't going to be an issue; CP3's health was. And as it turned out, concerns about CP3's ability to stay healthy were well-founded, and his injuries caused Houston to fall short in their best title chases.

If anything, CP3 is gone now because of his health issues and the burden/stress his prolonged absences put on James and the rest of the team, along with the difficulty of re-integration after said long absences (and conflict caused by all of the above). If CP3 had LBJ-grade health (groin this year notwithstanding), CP3 will probably still be a Rocket and he'd probably have a ring (or at least a Finals appearance or two).
 

Nameless

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,589
You start them both and have them both out there for crunch time, but I'd definitely stagger their PT as much as possible. Let Russ show out with second unit, let Harden do his thing with the starters.
 

Dreams-Visions

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
12,930
Miami, FL
You start them both and have them both out there for crunch time, but I'd definitely stagger their PT as much as possible. Let Russ show out with second unit, let Harden do his thing with the starters.
I would expect this is what will be done to keep tempo and scoring going without the traditional second unit drop off. No reason to not have at least one of them out there at all times with both out there for most/all of Q4. Easy.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,715
Houston
Receipts?

I don't remember those comments other than concern about an under-sized back court. CP3 has always been a willing passer and facilitator and them playing together wasn't really seen as a problem from a compatibility perspective other than CP3 sometimes being an asshole that people dislike, teammates and opposing players alike. Them working wasn't going to be an issue; CP3's health was. And as it turned out, concerns about CP3's ability to stay healthy were well-founded, and his injuries caused Houston to fall short in their best title chases.

If anything, CP3 is gone now because of his health issues and the burden/stress his prolonged absences put on James and the rest of the team, along with the difficulty of re-integration after said long absences (and conflict caused by all of the above). If CP3 had LBJ-grade health (groin this year notwithstanding), CP3 will probably still be a Rocket and he'd probably have a ring (or at least a Finals appearance or two).
considering that he was traded in june of 2017 that would have been on the old forum and i'm not particularly inclined to go back there and look for receipts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,335
Norman, OK
Presti is going to flip Paul to Miami for Picks....This dude is one of the best GMs in the league and hes cursed with Cheap Ownership. Imagine if he was working for a mid market team with owners willing to spend?
Don't know how the 'cheap ownership' narrative still exists. They've had a top 5 payroll since Durant's last year there and were happily going to pay another hefty tax bill in 19/20 prior to George's sudden departure even for a team that wasn't set to contend. Their ownership is a group of tycoons with an infinite supply of 'fuck you' oil money. They differ from other small markets greatly in that respect.

Also- the reality of what happened with Harden in 2012 doesn't match the narrative that's floated around forever. When OKC approached him with their initial extension offer, he made it clear that he wanted to start. Brooks wasn't willing/ready to commit to starting him yet, and when that became clear, Harden passed on the extension before further negotiation about $$$ could even take place. Presti/ownership made a rushed, foolish decision in trading him for fear of him walking at the end of '12/'13. It was a huge mistake by both Brooks and ownership, but it had nothing to do with money- regardless of what Harden said in the aftermath.
 

Masseyme

Member
May 23, 2019
321
Don't know how the 'cheap ownership' narrative still exists. They've had a top 5 payroll since Durant's last year there and were happily going to pay another hefty tax bill in 19/20 prior to George's sudden departure even for a team that wasn't set to contend. Their ownership is a group of tycoons with an infinite supply of 'fuck you' oil money. They differ from other small markets greatly in that respect.

Also- the reality of what happened with Harden in 2012 doesn't match the narrative that's floated around forever. When OKC approached him with their initial extension offer, he made it clear that he wanted to start. Brooks wasn't willing/ready to commit to starting him yet, and when that became clear, Harden passed on the extension before further negotiation about $$$ could even take place. Presti/ownership made a rushed, foolish decision in trading him for fear of him walking at the end of '12/'13. It was a huge mistake by both Brooks and ownership, but it had nothing to do with money- regardless of what Harden said in the aftermath.

That's not how I remember it at all. First off they shorted Harden he declined, offered him a little bit more in a final offer and gave him a deadline and he was supposedly still undecided when they traded him. This was incompetence due to over-paying Ibaka IIRC, who they should've shorted instead.

Starting or coming off the bench had nothing to do with it. And if they were so oil rich, they were indeed being cheap as hell by shorting him in the first place.

Here's it from Harden's own mouth:


“It was like an afternoon phone call, like four o’clock and I had an hour or so to make my decision, whether I wanted to take the offer or not. I’m thinking to myself, ‘This is the most money I’ve ever made in my life and you’re giving me a short amount of time to decide.’ And it wasn’t enough time for me,” Harden said.

A few hours later, he received a phone call from Thunder General Manager Sam Presti. That’s when he learned that he had been traded to the Houston Rockets.

“That was a very, very sad night,” Harden said.


“I went home, laid down and just started tearing up. We had big plans that we were going to win a championship for years,” Harden added.

Harden says that hurt turned to anger.

“It’s been almost four years and I still think about it,” he said in the video from 2016.

Officials with the Thunder say they wanted Harden to stay, but a disagreement over money is what led to the trade.

Its wide consensus that OKC fucked up a potential dynasty by some combination of being cheap/inept.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,971
Yeah they really only cheaped out on the Harden trade. Since then they’ve been throwing money around. Maxed out Russ and George. Gave Adams $25 million a year. Let Presti trade for a crappy $15 million a year backup PG.
Yeah but that was kinda the worst time to cheap out. That set off a chain reaction that's ultimately brought them to where they are today. They had arguably the greatest collection of talent the NBA has seen in a long time and they blew it.
 

UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,971
Don't know how the 'cheap ownership' narrative still exists. They've had a top 5 payroll since Durant's last year there and were happily going to pay another hefty tax bill in 19/20 prior to George's sudden departure even for a team that wasn't set to contend. Their ownership is a group of tycoons with an infinite supply of 'fuck you' oil money. They differ from other small markets greatly in that respect.

Also- the reality of what happened with Harden in 2012 doesn't match the narrative that's floated around forever. When OKC approached him with their initial extension offer, he made it clear that he wanted to start. Brooks wasn't willing/ready to commit to starting him yet, and when that became clear, Harden passed on the extension before further negotiation about $$$ could even take place. Presti/ownership made a rushed, foolish decision in trading him for fear of him walking at the end of '12/'13. It was a huge mistake by both Brooks and ownership, but it had nothing to do with money- regardless of what Harden said in the aftermath.
You never ever side with the coach over your superstar as management.

Golden State choosing to keep Don Nelson over Chris Webber is another example of that. It's just stupid, coaches are disposable, if Harden wanted to start, you let him start.
 

fertygo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,780
Yeah but that was kinda the worst time to cheap out. That set off a chain reaction that's ultimately brought them to where they are today. They had arguably the greatest collection of talent the NBA has seen in a long time and they blew it.
that timeline is so weird, they feel need to cheap out but they actually dont need to because the salary cap exploding? I still dont fully understand how it happened
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,335
Norman, OK
That's not how I remember it at all. First off they shorted Harden he declined, offered him a little bit more in a final offer and gave him a deadline and he was supposedly still undecided when they traded him. This was incompetence due to over-paying Ibaka IIRC, who they should've shorted instead.

Starting or coming off the bench had nothing to do with it. And if they were so oil rich, they were indeed being cheap as hell by shorting him in the first place.

Here's it from Harden's own mouth:

Its wide consensus that OKC fucked up a potential dynasty by some combination of being cheap/inept.
How you remember it and how it actually went down aren't necessarily the same thing. Harden said a lot of things after the trade that didn't square with what was reported locally. OKC definitely fucked up a potential dynasty by being inept- but not by being cheap. Harden wasn't dealt because of a $1 million/year contract discrepancy. That wasn't a thing. Also- Ibaka's deal had no bearing on James' situation. That's another common misconception born on the internet. They were willing to pay both guys- but James (rightfully) saw himself as a superstar/anchor, and Brooks/OKC brass (wrongly) didn't see it that way yet.

You never ever side with the coach over your superstar as management.

Golden State choosing to keep Don Nelson over Chris Webber is another example of that. It's just stupid, coaches are disposable, if Harden wanted to start, you let him start.
This is 100% correct, of course. But you have to keep in mind that at that point, Harden had just finished shitting the bed in the Finals and did not look like a lock to be a superstar. Also, it wasn't just Brooks- most of the brass in the front office undervalued his potential at that point and spent the next 7 seasons chasing that mistake down the rabbit hole until now, finally, hitting the eject button on the whole thing and starting over.
 
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UltraMagnus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,971
At the end of the day, what you're going to get from Westbrook from age 30/31/32 is likely to be a lot better than what Chris Paul brings to the table at age 34/35/36. Dude is already missing like 25 games a season on the regular.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,335
Norman, OK
At the end of the day, what you're going to get from Westbrook from age 30/31/32 is likely to be a lot better than what Chris Paul brings to the table at age 34/35/36. Dude is already missing like 25 games a season on the regular.
Also- people are (rightfully) quick to point out the negatives of trying to pair the two most ball dominant guys in the league together, but there are some notable upsides both for WB and for Houston here:

- WB will kickstart Houston's transition game like nobody's business.
- WB, with ball in hand, will have better spacing/a clearer lane than he's had at any point in the last several years
- WB has always been willing to drive & kick. He'll now be kicking to better shooters than he's had available for a long time, if ever.

I'm kind of thinking they'll win a surprising amount of games in the regular season before a glorious fuckball meltdown in the postseason.
 

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,863
Chris Paul has been overrated his entire career and as he gets older his skill set is just going to disappear to the likes of Wade and Melo.
CP3 is a much better shooter, passer and defender than either one of those guys. Before all is said and done CP3 will be top 5 in assists and steals. No need to trash the man.

Good deal for the Rockets.
 

Jiraiya

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,313
Chris Paul has been overrated his entire career and as he gets older his skill set is just going to disappear to the likes of Wade and Melo.
Agreed. He's had a pass his entire career when it comes to being criticized for not winning. People of his stature usually need a chip or two to solidify that greatness.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,032
Agreed. He's had a pass his entire career when it comes to being criticized for not winning. People of his stature usually need a chip or two to solidify that greatness.
I actually disagree somewhat with that. I know you're talking about stature in a non-physical sense but generally small guards just don't have the ability to physically dominate the game and thus be the best player on champions. The list of smaller guards who were the best player on a championship team is Isaiah Thomas and Steph and that's it.