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OKC Thunder trade Russell Westbrook to Houston Rockets for Chris Paul and a bunch of picks

UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
Westbrook + Harden did make it to an NBA Finals together and that was having to also accomodate Kevin Durant's touches on top of that.

I think at this stage both are also gonna be grateful to have each other, Harden is probably relieved to see Paul's salty ass out, Westbrook is happy to have a legit superstar to play with that isn't going to bail out on him.

How far they go I dunno, but I think they'll be pretty good.
 
Kill3r7

Kill3r7

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,387
ahoyle said:
Could OKC buy Paul out for $50 million or something stupid? Are they allowed to stretch a buyout over 2 seasons of salary cap. Buying him out, even at a crazy figure might make more sense for them. Lebron can just pay him $20 million to appear in Space Jam 2.
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CP3 is not taking a $70 million hit.
 
MegaManTrigger

MegaManTrigger

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
UltraMagnus said:
You might as well trade Harden if that was the mindset then because he was gonna want out sooner than later in the existing scenario.

By pulling this off, they get rid of the Paul problem and his aging ass contract for a better player who's younger and a legit MVP type talent.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, sharing the basketball and all that ... but there's 100-110 points to go around each night, they can both get theirs especially in a D'Antoni run n' gun offence.
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Keep in mind Westbrook has some of the same concerns too. Yes, he's younger than CP3, but he will have gone through 5 (iirc) surgeries on that knee in his career. And being 30 years old is the time that you start to worry about a player's decline.

Not to mention, the hallmark efficiency problems that he's shown (worse now that his midrange appears to be garbage). I will say, Westbrook is a better passer than people give him credit for, so that might be his bread and butter in the Houston system. Especially when you have PJ Tucker shooting 3s, and Capela nailing dunks. It's really only the scoring and efficiency that's concerning, especially in a D'Antoni system that emphasizes efficiency above all else on offense.
 
Dragun

Dragun

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,313
Can CP3 be traded again right now or do they have to wait 6 months later?

Seems like a pure lateral move for Houston but whatever, OKC got picks & CP3, whom I expect will request a trade so Sam Presti can hoard more picks.
 
PspLikeANut

PspLikeANut

Free
Member
May 20, 2018
2,598
Westbrook would make a great sixth man for Houston. Would put rockets in the best position to win with that type of effectiveness.
 
UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
jman2050 said:
They might as well have traded Harden, that would have been better than what they just did.

Absolutely hate this move for the Rockets. Absolutely hate it. It's terrible. That team is going nowhere and they now have nothing to look forward to years down the line.
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It's the NBA though ... this is not really a "build through the draft" kind of league, amassing draft picks means jack shit most of the time especially if the picks aren't in like the top 3-4.

When you have a superstar level player you have to go for it, there's really not even much of a debate to be had IMO.

There's only a handful of those players in the league and if you have one in his relative prime, you do whatever it takes to give them the best shot to win in the here and now.

You can be the Knicks/Grizzlies/Bulls/etc. for the next 20 years after that if you want just try to build with picks.
 
Brinbe

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,033
Terana
lmfao, this certainly exposes who know a damn thing about basketball.

harden westbrook is a horrendous fucking fit. at least chris paul could shoot a damn 3. it will never work. morey just throwing shit at the wall

and presti is accumulating a lot of mediocre non-lottofirst round picks, which he's certainly not nailed ever.

this is a bad deal for both teams
 
MegaManTrigger

MegaManTrigger

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
UltraMagnus said:
Westbrook + Harden did make it to an NBA Finals together and that was having to also accomodate Kevin Durant's touches on top of that.

I think at this stage both are also gonna be grateful to have each other, Harden is probably relieved to see Paul's salty ass out, Westbrook is happy to have a legit superstar to play with that isn't going to bail out on him.

How far they go I dunno, but I think they'll be pretty good.
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Context matters. Harden was a 6th man for OKC at the time that he went to the finals, not this supernova talent that he is right now in Houston. And Westbrook was a somewhat different player in 2012 too, and only had KD's touches to worry about. He had better efficiencies in some of his shots (though he still had the tendency to chuck up heroball shots). This is not the same as 2012, so you can't just simply say "oh they want to the finals so it'll work." They both are different players now than they were in 2012.
 
NinjaScooter

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,100
UltraMagnus said:
Westbrook + Harden did make it to an NBA Finals together and that was having to also accomodate Kevin Durant's touches on top of that.

I think at this stage both are also gonna be grateful to have each other, Harden is probably relieved to see Paul's salty ass out, Westbrook is happy to have a legit superstar to play with that isn't going to bail out on him.

How far they go I dunno, but I think they'll be pretty good.
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They made it to the NBA finals as a "duo" on a team that also happened to include MVP Kevin Durant, and on a team where Harden's role was reduced and he was often coming off the bench.

They might as well be two different players now. I don't know how you can read anything out of that.

Also Harden was at one point really happy to see Paul come in, and Westbrook was happy to have a legit superstar (PG) that wanted to be there, and we saw how those worked out.
 
NinjaScooter

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,100
Dragun said:
Can CP3 be traded again right now or do they have to wait 6 months later?

Seems like a pure lateral move for Houston but whatever, OKC got picks & CP3, whom I expect will request a trade so Sam Presti can hoard more picks.
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He can be traded at any time, I believe as long as it's not combined with another player.
 
jman2050

jman2050

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,787
UltraMagnus said:
It's the NBA though ... this is not really a "build through the draft" kind of league, amassing draft picks means jack shit most of the time especially if the picks aren't in like the top 3-4.
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Draft picks are currency. Rockets just spent a whole chunk of it to get not much of anything useful.

When you have a superstar level player you have to go for it, there's really not even much of a debate to be had IMO.

There's only a handful of those players in the league and if you have one in his relative prime, you do whatever it takes to give them the best shot to win in the here and now.
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Westbrook isn't what I would call a superstar level, especially not now. I agree with you that teams need to amass high-level talent to win at any cost but the Rockets already had a dynamic point guard who was good enough to compete for a championship, his name was Chris Paul.

You can be the Knicks/Grizzlies/Bulls/etc. for the next 20 years after that if you want just trying to build with picks.
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See above re: draft picks as currency.
 
UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
MegaManTrigger said:
Context matters. Harden was a 6th man for OKC at the time that he went to the finals, not this supernova talent that he is right now in Houston. And Westbrook was a somewhat different player in 2012 too, and only had KD's touches to worry about. He had better efficiencies in some of his shots (though he still had the tendency to chuck up heroball shots). This is not the same as 2012, so you can't just simply say "oh they want to the finals so it'll work." They both are different players now than they were in 2012.
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No, they are more mature players at this point, but it just goes to show that they're not going to start choking each other on the court or something stupid. They can both get 30 a night if that's what they really are hell bent on.

I think the last couple of years has humbled both a bit though, getting your ass kicked in by the Warriors will do that.

They'll be a decent squad, I dunno how far they go but they'll be decent I think.
 
UltraMagnus

UltraMagnus

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
15,670
jman2050 said:
Draft picks are currency. Rockets just spent a whole chunk of it to get not much of anything useful.



Westbrook isn't what I would call a superstar level, especially not now. I agree with you that teams need to amass high-level talent to win at any cost but the Rockets already had a dynamic point guard who was good enough to compete for a championship, his name was Chris Paul.



See above re: draft picks as currency.
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And superstars are gold in the NBA, you don't know how often they come around. Houston could amass picks for the next 15 years and never get one player as good as Harden is now. There are lots of organizations in that boat that have been wandering the "superstar-less" wilderness for ages. Ask Bulls fans, Magic fans, Knicks fans, Hawks fans, Suns fans, etc. etc.
 
MegaManTrigger

MegaManTrigger

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
UltraMagnus said:
No, they are more mature players at this point, but it just goes to show that they're not going to start choking each other on the court or something stupid. They can both get 30 a night if that's what they really are hell bent on.

I think the last couple of years has humbled both a bit though, getting your ass kicked in by the Warriors will do that.

They'll be a decent squad, I dunno how far they go but they'll be decent I think.
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No they are completely different players. Westbrook wasn't nearly the passer in 2012 that he is right now, and if you want to argue flaws, Westbrook is a worse shooter than he was in 2012 from an efficiency standpoint. So yes, you can't just assume they will fit immediately. You have to take system into account, which currently has Harden shoot heavy amounts of isolation shots.
 
Violence Jack

Violence Jack

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Oct 25, 2017
41,657
This team is gonna score 130 and give up 130 a night.

Can my Nuggets get a free pass to the East please? Shits gonna be a bloodbath.
 
Naijaboy

Naijaboy

The Fallen
Mar 13, 2018
15,240
Ouch for Paul.

As for the Rockets... I'm not sure if it can work. We got screwed over by bad chemistry last time.
 
captmcblack

captmcblack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,058
NBA IS YOGA FLAMES.

This pairing is the perfect representation of that image macro that says "we've gone too far, but let's keep going and see what happens". If D'antoni can somehow make this work where Westbrook can't shoot 3s, he's the GOAT coach.
 
BringBackSonics

BringBackSonics

Member
Oct 27, 2017
44,988
Seattle
UltraMagnus said:
And superstars are gold in the NBA, you don't know how often they come around. Houston could amass picks for the next 15 years and never get one player as good as Harden is now. There are lots of organizations in that boat that have been wandering the "superstar-less" wilderness for ages. Ask Bulls fans, Magic fans, Knicks fans, Hawks fans, Suns fans, etc. etc.
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Yup. In the NBA teams win when they have stars. This isn't baseball or football.
 
PspLikeANut

PspLikeANut

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May 20, 2018
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Both players have high usage rates (Harden at 41% and westbrook at 31%). If Houston wants this to work, one of them should definitely come off the bench(Westbrook preferably). Harden is not the same player he was when he was in OKC.
 
Yasuke

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
This strikes me as the right move for both teams, but Russ and Harden doesn't seem ideal regardless lol
 
Temp_User

Temp_User

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Oct 30, 2017
4,688
Two iso-dominant mothafuckas trying to share one ball. The potential fallout from all this almost excites me to follow the Rockets next regular season. Westbrook better learn to defer.
 
Brinbe

Brinbe

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Oct 25, 2017
58,033
Terana
NinjaScooter said:
He'll have plenty of chance to rest, even in the west. It's not like they are going to be gunning for 65 wins. The goal is to have Kawhi and PG healthy for a 7 game playoff series.
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seeding will matter though. especially when it seems like we'll get something crazy like a 45-50 win team missing out. the bottom of the east will be that bad and even the suns will be better now that they have an actual point guard in rubio running things.
 
captmcblack

captmcblack

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Oct 25, 2017
5,058
Here's a crazy take: Harden is actually an excellent shooter. Why not have him defer to Westbrook since he is still able to warp defenses with drives to the basket and get infinity open shots for Harden and co (especially since if that breaks down Harden is almost equally good at drawing fouls with attacks at the rack)?

Clearly this is a stupid idea, but tell me why it won't work, lol.
 
Beef Supreme

Beef Supreme

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Oct 25, 2017
5,073
Well, after my negative rant, I'm going to go "glass half full" guy now. If I can find a positive in all of this, at least the guy does want to rebound the ball. We can sure use that after Clint got out husstled on that end ( and every other end) during the playoffs. He'll just have to do it without Adams blocking out for him.
 
NinjaScooter

NinjaScooter

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Oct 25, 2017
54,100
Brinbe said:
seeding will matter though. especially when it seems like we'll get something crazy like a 45-50 win team missing out. the bottom of the east will be that bad and even the suns will be better now that they have an actual point guard in rubio running things.
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Seeding will matter, but you can give those guys rest, with the roster the Clips have, and still compete for a top 4 seed. I think they'll take that.
 
Zaied

Zaied

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Oct 27, 2017
4,550
No wonder Westbrook unliked that Instagram post with him in the Heat jersey. I think this is a terrible fit, and I'm not sold on Westbrook's athleticism holding up for much longer given the knee issues.
 
Foxhound

Foxhound

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Jun 7, 2019
112
Betting we get at least 2 more Woj Bombs this summer. One has to be CP being traded out of OKC.
 
NinjaScooter

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
54,100
captmcblack said:
Here's a crazy take: Harden is actually an excellent shooter. Why not have him defer to Westbrook since he is still able to warp defenses with drives to the basket and get infinity open shots for Harden and co (especially since if that breaks down Harden is almost equally good at drawing fouls with attacks at the rack)?

Clearly this is a stupid idea, but tell me why it won't work, lol.
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a lot of what makes James a great shooter is his efficiency, which comes from him attacking the basket and racking up free throws or easy buckets (or opening up shots for teammates), which comes from him being ball dominant. If you make him an off-ball player you remove a pretty good element of his game, in favor of highlighting a terrible element of Russ' game.
 
MegaManTrigger

MegaManTrigger

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,734
captmcblack said:
Here's a crazy take: Harden is actually an excellent shooter. Why not have him defer to Westbrook since he is still able to warp defenses with drives to the basket and get infinity open shots for Harden and co (especially since if that breaks down Harden is almost equally good at drawing fouls with attacks at the rack)?

Clearly this is a stupid idea, but tell me why it won't work, lol.
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Well first off (bc I don't have the numbers), is Harden a catch n shooter? I'd imagine he has better numbers from 3pt shots that were created off of his own dribble. But I could be wrong.
 
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