On Voting or Not Voting for Biden in Light of the Sexual Assault Allegations |OT| Discussion Guidelines in OP

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muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
13,153
a sunken pirate ship
Cheebo was allowed space to backtrack on saying he'd vote on Hitler over Trump as "it's just a prank, brah", but Frozenprince gets an indefinite ban because of "inflammatory comparison" by joking that Era is comparable to a prison. You seriously can't see how this comes off as biased even if it's unintentional? One of those users actually created a separate thread for the rape testimony so the rest of OT could see it, while the other has been trying to downplay rape all day. Think of what kind of environment you just helped create by being more trigger happy on the other.
Yep. For the uninitiated, one of the things that Foucault was getting at with his statements on prisons is that these apparatuses of the state are meant to contain and pacify revolutionary thought and exist outside of a traditional moral context. Trying to restrict electoral options to being a binary choice (especially 'a vote for anybody but Biden is a vote for Trump') and not allow for other possibilities is, as Mekanos stated maybe a bit more explicitly, is a form of that sort of containment and pacification. While I posted a bit tongue-in-cheek I did mean something serious behind is, as is common for my posts.

Banning Frozenprince for riffing on my post turns whatever jokes or subtext we were making into, in a manner of speaking, actual text, because it stifles our ability to carry on discussion from the left of Biden in this thread and look at other options besides banning these fellows, and developing an intellectual framework for understanding the way in which power is trying to make us think fewer things are possible than there actually are.
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,325
Here is my argument for the third choice outline in the OP:

What it means if you vote for a sexual predator is easy: you support a sexual predator. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. Don't vote for Joe Biden if you support survivors in any real sort of way. This isn't just watching some movie that a sex pest starred in and maybe some of your money winds up in their pocket instead of the corporation or another actor's or residuals-recipient-- this is directly rewarding a rapist with even MORE power. That's what, materially, voting is, at least in this country- saying "yes, I want you to have power over me because I trust you to not abuse it and to listen to what I ask of you".

Biden has proven he cannot be trusted with that power. If you can live with yourself rewarding him for that, okay then, but don't guilt trip survivors who refuse to vote for him unless you really do want to out yourself as simply not caring about them.

Outside of those allegations, of course.... Those who think they're truly doing a good thing by pledging fealty to Biden before the primary is even fucking over? Don't be a fool. Vote for anyone but Biden in the primary. Obviously if you'd be okay with Bernie, that means Bernie. But all you have to do is vote for anyone but Biden to prevent him from reaching the magic delegate number of 1991 that ensures him the nomination. Preferably you WOULD vote for Bernie regardless to help make it a closer competition and make the powers that be reconsider coalescing around Biden and put someone else forward with less skeletons at the convention, but any little bit helps if you're truly unable to hold your nose.

And in the general? Just don't support either rapist. Vote downballot.
But, you say, Biden would be better, so you can go against your morals and support a rapist? No, I disagree, especially now that I know his touchy-feely bullshit wasn't "old man with a weird head on his shoulders" (which I already SHOULD have made the argument for being disqualifying for him months ago, that's my mistake, and I apologize sincerely) but "active sexual predator". The only major difference between a Biden administration and a Trump administration on an actual material level that wouldn't be effected by who's in Congress and in local positions, is that Biden would maybe choose a liberal or centrist (but certainly not a progressive) judge for the Supreme Court. And, frankly, we already LOST the Supreme Court in 2016. A liberal or centrist to replace RBG wouldn't solve the fact that Roe v. Wade is in consideration for being overturned by a case RIGHT NOW, and would likely be unable to sway any on the fence judges.

And, well... That's about it for material differences. We know Biden has said he would veto Medicare for All, which speaks poorly of how he'd handle frankly more radical bills like a Green New Deal or Reparations, so a Congress not filled with progressive voices to override his veto wouldn't be able to get anything actually good and helpful done under him OR Trump. Biden still supports spreading American-style imperialism, Biden still supports children in cages (and don't pretend he doesn't, he was in the administration that started it that was more to the left than he ever has been; at best they wouldn't be separated from their parents anymore, which is a hollow victory), and any support he holds for the LGBTQ+ and PoC communities is quite clearly lip service given his past stances... Lip service just like Trump. Wouldn't be surprised if he "compromises" with the right as he's so, so very good at doing, and enables some of the shit Trump has been whole-heartedly supporting. Perhaps a return to the "progressive" "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", hm? Most alarmingly, for me, is how Biden's environmental plans are woefully inadequate already and ripe for "compromising" with the right and corporations with vested monetary interests in leading our civilization to catastrophe. Like, we already treat refugees like trash, you think that's going to improve when millions, not just thousands, are asking to get in? Not unless by some miracle Trump or Biden is followed up by someone like AOC as a bare minimum and only gets better presidents from there.

So, I'm sorry, to me, the argument "getting Biden in would be better than Trump" is only true in the most marginal of senses and would maybe allow the privileged to sleep easy thinking they did a good job because they don't have to hear a report about Trump every day, while the disadvantaged still have to worry about getting food on the table, or if this injust system we're in (and that Joe Biden is okay with) will kill or otherwise harm them due to it's inability to prevent rape, harassment, hate crimes, or police brutality. So really, you're just trading a loudly spoken rapist bigot fascism enabler for a softer spoken rapist bigot who's preferred system- the system we had since Reagan at least- which will lead to another fascist in record time due to how the system doesn't fucking work. Maybe we get to keep a liberal judge on a court that isn't going to listen to them anyway for it. Sounds like a raw deal for giving a rapist power to me, especially when we shouldn't be enabling rapists in the FIRST place.

But! If we vote downballot this November, get Democrats and, more importantly, progressive and leftist Democrats in office? You can make sure any judge either man puts up would be thoroughly vetted- perhaps we can even get a stonewall going akin to how Obama was if Trump picks a truly heinous individual, or to just prevent anyone but a truly progressive judge to balance out what Trump has done. We could get over the veto hump that'd prevent important progress. We could potentially prevent further disastrous wars, such as the hot one with Iran and the cold one with China Trump seems to ideate about, or the Iraq War which Biden helped spearhead. We could get those children not just reunited with their parents, but eliminate the cages AND ICE, and maybe, just maybe, give them an easier pathway to citizenship. We could get PoC and LGBTQ+ individuals into power and advocating for their communities. We could help prevent cockamamie schemes by the right and right-friendly center. We could actually, you know, prevent the ice caps from completely thawing, not have crop-destroying wildfires, cold snaps and droughts, and not have all coastline cities eradicated, leading to the rule of fascism if not the return of feudalism, for centuries.

And importantly- we could enact change on a grassroots-up level without willfully empowering a rapist! It will require work though- you can't just sit at home if you have the ability to do more, for the sake of those who must work or save transportation money when it's time to show up to the polls or lose their future -- or even their lives. You'll have to canvass, you'll have to protest. Even just signing up with a political campaign to phone or text bank, which you can do sitting at home! Can you do that? Do you, in fact, value morality and progress as you claim by inherently posting in political OTs on this site?

Or do you just want an unjust peace, where rapists run the show, because you're okay with that? Or, perhaps, you just pay lip service to the idea of justice, but really don't care on a base level as long as the bad things don't inconvenience you personally?

Support victims. Support progress. Do not vote Biden, do not advocate for voting Biden in the primary OR The general. But importantly-
Still go vote.
Vote for Biden's VP should you be in a state that allows voting for the ticket separately they not be a rapist themselves if you don't think the association is too damning (which, understandably, may be, and I cannot blame anyone for not doing so). Vote for Democratic Senators and Progressive or Leftist Representatives, on a national and state level. Vote for mayors, for city councilpeople. Vote for progress. Or at least, vote to mitigate the harm either of these monsters will do.

And most importantly, for the sake of victims here, if you can't even do the minimum to support victims with your vote, at least don't crow proudly about how you're voting for Biden and how people are being "irresponsible" or "supporting Trump" by not voting for Biden. You're making victims of sexual abuse actively feel unsafe or unheeded, which we should be actively avoiding as a site founded on such progressive thought.

Here's a helpful link to help you on your way with finding who to vote for downballot:

435 house seats up in the air once again grabs, 23 Republican seats to claim and 12 Dem seats to hold onto (or primary if the Democrat is acting insufficiently).

And here's a link to state legislative elections:

Nevada, Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, Colorado, Nebraska, Iowa, Minnesota, Michigan, Kentucky, West Virginia, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Delaware, New York, Connecticut, New Hampshire, and Maine are all holding those this year.

Find out who's running in those, who can mitigate harm or push progress, and campaign. Campaign, campaign, campaign. And again- VOTE THIS NOVEMBER. Just don't vote for a rapist.

Enabling one rapist enables them all.
And by voting for Jill Stein or johnson or Mickey mouse or whoever, in a two party system which ours is, you indirectly are supporting Donald Trump. Simple as that. If you're cool with that, (and judging by your equivocating I assume you are), then good for you. But I and others don't have that privilege when one is a nazi. you can't claim voting for Biden is one thing, but voting against him means nothing for the guy you will definitely help put in power.
 
Oct 25, 2017
13,757
Sweden
This is really difficult. In an election between Biden and Trump, I would probably have voted for Biden, in hopes that he would put an end to the policy of having concentration camps at the border. I would do anything in my power to try and ensure someone else becomes the Democratic nominee though. And I wouldn't be able to campaign or advocate for Biden. I would keep calling him a rapist publicly even if it would lower his chances of winning because I wouldn't want to lie about what he is
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,862
Ontario
Yep. For the uninitiated, one of the things that Foucault was getting at with his statements on prisons is that these apparatuses of the state are meant to contain and pacify revolutionary thought and exist outside of a traditional moral context. Trying to restrict electoral options to being a binary choice (especially 'a vote for anybody but Biden is a vote for Trump') and not allow for other possibilities is, as Mekanos stated maybe a bit more explicitly, is a form of that sort of containment and pacification. While I posted a bit tongue-in-cheek I did mean something serious behind is, as is common for my posts.

Banning Frozenprince for riffing on my post turns whatever jokes or subtext we were making into, in a manner of speaking, actual text, because it stifles our ability to carry on discussion from the left of Biden in this thread and look at other options besides banning these fellows, and developing an intellectual framework for understanding the way in which power is trying to make us think fewer things are possible than there actually are.
Yeah attempting any kind of structural criticism of politics which isn't confined to the moral equivocations of electoral politics (in march ffs) is made difficult when those are seemingly ruled out of the discussion.

it very much merits a conversation on how if there is no mechanism to replace him on the ticket then it is not simply a fait accompli, it's a failure of the party mechanism to act in the basic self-intrest of the party.

There are people with far more influence then us who are responsible for not forcing this dichotomy onto the american public
 

learning

Member
Jan 4, 2019
153
pragmatism not idealism

be tactical

make the choice that is most likely to have the most positive impact on humanity

expected impact = positivity impact of presidency * chances of winning presidency

be tactical

pragmatism not idealism
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
There's a reason why it's called "The lesser of two evils." In this case, not voting for the Dem nominee (likely Biden) is an implicit vote for the greater evil. I'm not saying vote for him because some peoples' conscience's won't allow it, but those are the options. Four more years of a greater evil that will go unchecked since he won't have to worry about impeachment again or the lesser.
 

Flame Flamey

Member
Feb 8, 2018
4,013
Not everyone can be a utilitarian at all times, sometimes the lesser evil is too much to stomach, no matter how great the greater evil.

I'll vote for Biden if it comes down to him vs. Trump, but I would never blame someone for being unable to. Not everyone can be pragmatic all the time, always making the right moral calculations, no matter how difficult.

Please don't downplay and suppress the rape allegations, please.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
pragmatism not idealism

be tactical

make the choice that is most likely to have the most positive impact on humanity

expected impact = positivity impact of presidency * chances of winning presidency

be tactical

pragmatism not idealism
And where has pragmatism gotten us? We're now careening into a situation where we're voting between two rapists. If everyone were idealistic, we'd have Sanders vs Trump.

Pragmatism can choke on my entire ass.
 

Labor

Member
Mar 18, 2020
154
Yep. For the uninitiated, one of the things that Foucault was getting at with his statements on prisons is that these apparatuses of the state are meant to contain and pacify revolutionary thought and exist outside of a traditional moral context. Trying to restrict electoral options to being a binary choice (especially 'a vote for anybody but Biden is a vote for Trump') and not allow for other possibilities is, as Mekanos stated maybe a bit more explicitly, is a form of that sort of containment and pacification. While I posted a bit tongue-in-cheek I did mean something serious behind is, as is common for my posts.

Banning Frozenprince for riffing on my post turns whatever jokes or subtext we were making into, in a manner of speaking, actual text, because it stifles our ability to carry on discussion from the left of Biden in this thread and look at other options besides banning these fellows, and developing an intellectual framework for understanding the way in which power is trying to make us think fewer things are possible than there actually are.
You can’t go into a conversation with the assumption that people are familiar with the philosophies you subscribe to and be in on your “jokes” when you’re approaching them as ideological enemies, which is the usual mode in these threads. Personally I don’t think either post was worthy of a ban, and actually feel like Cheebo’s choice of zombies wasn’t smart, but that was also obviously hyperbole unless you think somebody’s putting Frankenstein bolts together at the DNC right now.

There are multiple bad faith conversations happening that are coming from people adhering to various ideals and while mods are supposed to help prevent that, posters should also show some restraint.
 
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L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,830
And where has pragmatism gotten us? We're now careening into a situation where we're voting between two rapists. If everyone were idealistic, we'd have Sanders vs Trump.

Pragmatism can choke on my entire ass.
I'd hope that if everyone was idealistic, we wouldn't have had Trump in the running either.

The entire situation we're discussing is an issue because things have already gone wrong.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,862
Ontario
You can’t go into a conversation with the assumption that people are familiar with the philosophies you subscribe to and be in on your “jokes” when you’re approaching them as ideological enemies, which is the usual mode in these threads. Personally I don’t think either post was worthy of a ban, and actually feel like Cheebo’s choice of zombies was smart, but that was also obviously hyperbole unless you think somebody’s putting Frankenstein bolts together at the DNC right now.

There are multiple bad faith conversations happening that are coming from people adhering to various ideals and while mods are supposed to help prevent that, posters should also show some restraint.
focault = prison everything jokes aren't some like niche thing

i would hope that the fact he was quoting a picture of foucault with his name and a quote about how everything is a prison could work as acceptable context clues in lieu of a basic familiarity with modern social theory.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
I'd hope that if everyone was idealistic, we wouldn't have had Trump in the running either.

The entire situation we're discussing is an issue because things have already gone wrong.
And yet, we can still prevent this. We can still get Bernie. If every single person reading this right now talked to their family members and friends about Biden being a rapist and had them spread that on, we could still win.

And that idea right there, It's stupid as hell. Nothing works like that. That's the pragmatic truth

But... if we ignored what's "realistic" and thought with our moral and ethical convictions before all else, we could move the needle. We could even get Bernie back on track to the nomination. That's the power of thinking with ideology. It's irrational, but you're doing the right thing and you believe in it.

There is no hope in pragmatism, only the death of your inner voice and morals.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,862
Ontario
it's march lol
what's this talk of pragmatism
get biden off the ticket either by denying him an outright majority or pressuring him to drop for persona reasons

the party needs to be thinking of the party first and foremost and biden is not that person
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,206
For the record, Trump is now saying that NYC doesn't need more ventilators because his gut tells him so.

Whatever you feel about Biden, you're helping this right here if you don't vote for him.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
And yet, we can still prevent this. We can still get Bernie. If every single person reading this right now talked to their family members and friends about Biden being a rapist and had them spread that on, we could still win.

And that idea right there, It's stupid as hell. Nothing works like that. That's the pragmatic truth

But... if we ignored what's "realistic" and thought with our moral and ethical convictions before all else, we could move the needle. We could even get Bernie back on track to the nomination. That's the power of thinking with ideology. It's irrational, but you're doing the right thing and you believe in it.

There is no hope in pragmatism, only the death of your inner voice and morals.
The Democratic party has rejected Bernie, though. Forcing him down the throat of the party would heed the same results as Hillary.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,010
For the record, Trump is now saying that NYC doesn't need more ventilators because his gut tells him so.

Whatever you feel about Biden, you're helping this right here if you don't vote for him.
This is so upsetting. I really hate this guy, and I rarely hate people. I don't think it's possible for the dems to put up a worse candidate than Trump, so I'm going to vote for whoever is running on the dem ticket. I prefer it not be Biden but if it is, then he gets my vote.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,567
And where has pragmatism gotten us? We're now careening into a situation where we're voting between two rapists. If everyone were idealistic, we'd have Sanders vs Trump.

Pragmatism can choke on my entire ass.
Problem is ain't no one got time for """leftists"""" to unfuck themselves before the remaining infrastructure of government is smoldering ruins.

This supposed """Revolution""" was electoral vaporware in search of a voting constituency, while the rank and file just wants to not have to worry what their government was plotting last night while they slept.

But that's a wider critique of Sanderism and his outreach strategy, and not whether Biden is a good choice for POTUS he isn't
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
Problem is ain't no one got time for """leftists"""" to unfuck themselves before the remaining infrastructure of government is smoldering ruins.

This supposed """Revolution""" was electoral vaporware in search of a voting constituency, while the rank and file just wants to not have to worry what their government was plotting last night while they slept.

But that's a wider critique of Sanderism and his outreach strategy, and not whether Biden is a good choice for POTUS he isn't
Yeah great time to shit on the left when we're your only goddamn hope. It's us or rapists. If you have a problem with how the leftists or Sanders does outreach, then figure out a way to do it effectively yourself. Welcome to the team comrade
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
I'm sure the party would pick Bernie over Biden if they knew Biden did some rape. I wonder where the media is with that?
Nah. The party would pick someone else at the convention and risk burning the progressive wing of the party. That's how anti-Bernie they are. Picking him would ruin their chances at winning both the White House and the Senate.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,567
Yeah great time to shit on the left when we're your only goddamn hope. It's us or rapists. If you have a problem with how the leftists or Sanders does outreach, then figure out a way to do it effectively yourself. Welcome to the team comrade
If we're arguing cold, hard electoral math, what constituency do you bring to the table, and why couldn't Bernie mobilize them to vote?
 

skullmuffins

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,388
I'm not convinced (if they're voting along partisan lines, which I would expect) that this numeric distinction matters as much as you say it does. They have the majority either way.
it matters a lot. it's not just the swing but the nature of the opinions that will come forth from a 6-3 or possibly 7-2 court (breyer is old af too) filled with new far right ideologues. justice thomas is not the same as justice roberts, even though they're both conservatives. with a 5-4 court you only need to peel off one justice, and that happens sometimes. with a 7-2 you need to peel off three. that's not likely! and a more entrenched conservative lean could spell the difference between, for example, a SCOTUS ruling that overturns Roe and gives states the right to ban abortion, and a SCOTUS ruling that finds a fetus is a person under the 14th amendment and abortion is unconstitutional nationwide. we lose in both cases but the nature of the decision is much worse in latter hypothetical.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
Nah. The party would pick someone else at the convention and risk burning the progressive wing of the party. That's how anti-Bernie they are. Picking him would ruin their chances at winning both the White House and the Senate.
Then find a way of convincing the people around you that Bernie is the right choice. You can desperately hope they'll sub in some douche like Cuomo at the last minute but I wouldn't fucking risk it. You don't gotta like Bernie, you just gotta want to defeat Trump.
 

Thorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,644
Yeah great time to shit on the left when we're your only goddamn hope. It's us or rapists. If you have a problem with how the leftists or Sanders does outreach, then figure out a way to do it effectively yourself. Welcome to the team comrade
Except we didn't go out to vote...so why should they listen to us?
Who gives a shit about polisci nerd shit. Reach out to people you know and make something happen.
I did...and Sanders lost every county in Michigan anyway.
 

muteKi

Member
Oct 22, 2018
13,153
a sunken pirate ship
Then find a way of convincing the people around you that Bernie is the right choice. You can desperately hope they'll sub in some douche like Cuomo at the last minute but I wouldn't fucking risk it. You don't gotta like Bernie, you just gotta want to defeat Trump.

Amen.
I used to think that Biden had a chance but that was before this report came to light. People, vote Bernie unless you want four more years of Trump.
 

Thorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,644
Make them listen. You can't fight from a position of defeat. You have the upper hand in more ways than you know. Find that and use it.
Alright, whats some ideas you got? How do we convince the Democratic Party to listen to us, while at the same time having piss poor voter turnout.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,055
Then find a way of convincing the people around you that Bernie is the right choice. You can desperately hope they'll sub in some douche like Cuomo at the last minute but I wouldn't fucking risk it. You don't gotta like Bernie, you just gotta want to defeat Trump.
You can't force people to want Bernie any more than you can force Bernie supporters to want Biden. It doesn't work that way. Democrats have already cast their lot with Biden for better or worse. If people in the party feel like they have a better chance with one person over another, then that's who they'll support.
 
Oct 27, 2017
6,567
Who gives a shit about polisci nerd stuff. Reach out to people you know and make something happen.
Did someone fill-in Bernie about this revelation?

Seems he should be 'making things happen'

But seriously, the rank and file aren't taking a blind-faith leap on Leftist candidates because while their policies get good marks, no one wants to wake up to a few thousand snek emoji because they had to take 60% of a loaf.
 

DrForester

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,345
The Presidency is about more than the President.

I will vote for whoever is most likely to stop trump from replacing RGB. And I won't protest vote (or not vote) and hope RGB lasts 4 more years. That woman deserves retirement. Plus trump will likely get 1 or 2 more SCOTUS picks, plus continue to stack the federal courts. Not voting for the democratic nominee will kill any progressive agenda for several decades, as everything will get challenged and overturned in courts.


I would also urge people to remember that Trump has been given a free pass to break any law he wants by the Republican party. He will be free to commit any crime, and continue to be as corrupt as possible if he remains in office for four more years, and the GOP will sit by and let him. He is literally threatening news organizations to pull their FCC licenses if they air negative ads about him.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
Alright, whats some ideas you got? How do we convince the Democratic Party to listen to us, while not voting.
Confidence. Biden is a rapist, and Bernie is a dude who can win. No one wants to vote for a rapist. The GOP is going to destroy Biden with this shit. Bernie's the only rational choice and he can still win

You can't force people to want Bernie any more than you can force Bernie supporters to want Biden. It doesn't work that way. Democrats have already cast their lot with Biden for better or worse. If people in the party feel like they have a better chance with one person over another, then that's who they'll support.
You can admit defeat like a loser or you can fight for something. You might still lose, but at least you fucking tried. Stop acting like there's no hope and try for something dude.

Did someone fill-in Bernie about this revelation?

Seems he should be 'making things happen'

But seriously, the rank and file aren't taking a blind-faith leap on Leftist candidates because while their policies get good marks, no one wants to wake up to a few thousand snek emoji because they had to take 60% of a loaf.
Fuck the rank and file, you go directly to the people you know and you talk to them. Biden being a rapist is a bigger deal than twitter jerks. You can convince people if you talk to them. Even if you don't, you can try.
 

Thorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,644
Confidence. Biden is a rapist, and Bernie is a dude who can win. No one wants to vote for a rapist. The GOP is going to destroy Biden with this shit. Bernie's the only rational choice and he can still win
No he can't. No amount of "confidence" is going to give Sanders a victory at this point.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
No he can't. No amount of "confidence" is going to give Sanders a victory at this point.
Prove it. Prove to me and to yourself that there's absolutely nothing that could be done to get Bernie the victory. Don't tell me it can't be done until you've done everything in your power to do it.
 

Thorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,644
Prove it. Prove to me and to yourself that there's absolutely nothing that could be done to get Bernie the victory. Don't tell me it can't be done until you've done everything in your power to do it.
Dude, look at the upcoming states he has to win.

Several of them are going to be a DOMINATING victory for Biden.

Sanders has to basically SWEEP at this point! He couldn't even win states he won in 16! You think Ohio and Pennsylvania are going to vote Sanders?
 
They still can. You can still make a difference. This defeatist bullshit is old and bitter.
Sorry, I already voted for Warren.

And I'm defeatist? I'm not the one throwing my arms in the air threatening to let Trump power walk to victory.

Well, maybe for you but my state hasn't had its primary yet
Then I guess you still have time. Do everything in your power to rally your troops then.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
Dude, look at the upcoming states he has to win.

Several of them are going to be a DOMINATING victory for Biden.

Sanders has to basically SWEEP at this point! He couldn't even win states he won in 16! You think Ohio and Pennsylvania are going to vote Sanders?
Realistically, no fucking way.

Fuck reality. Reality says we're going to have a rapist president. Do something to change it.
 

BADMAN

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,682
Sorry, I already voted for Warren.

And I'm defeatist? I'm not the one throwing my arms in the air threatening to let Trump power walk to victory.



Then I guess you still have time. Do everything in your power to rally your troops then.
Phone bank, talk to online friends who live in other states, talk to relatives. Fuck dude I don't know figure out what you can do and do it.
 
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