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On Voting or Not Voting for Biden in Light of the Sexual Assault Allegations |OT| Discussion Guidelines in OP
- Thread starter Poodlestrike
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I know its just hyperbole but this is a bad example. Jewish lives aren't worth the right to abortion. The whole idea of voting Biden is limiting the damage, even if we're morally opposed. Voting Hitler instead of Trump would be actively increasing the damage.
Also, stop downplaying an accusation of rape. I'm not sure how many times it needs to be said.
Enough.
4 more years of Trump, in the midst of this crisis, sounds like an absolute nightmare. I don't even know if I could live here anymore I'd be so disgusted with this country. Especially with the possibility of the virus returning, I think 4 more years of Trump would be a complete disaster orders of magnitude worse than his first term (which already has been a catastrophe).
But god damn it, fuck Biden and fuck the DNC that this was the best they could offer us. Hope Biden voters feel real guilty about their votes now, but I'd guess not because a vote for Biden was fucking stupid in the first place.
This is so frustrating. I'll end up voting for Biden in the GE because not voting against Trump is unimaginable for me. But Jesus man.
Is this gaining any steam in the media? Maybe if it really takes off the DNC and Biden will actually reconsider his candidacy.
But god damn it, fuck Biden and fuck the DNC that this was the best they could offer us. Hope Biden voters feel real guilty about their votes now, but I'd guess not because a vote for Biden was fucking stupid in the first place.
This is so frustrating. I'll end up voting for Biden in the GE because not voting against Trump is unimaginable for me. But Jesus man.
Is this gaining any steam in the media? Maybe if it really takes off the DNC and Biden will actually reconsider his candidacy.
It's simple. If you're in an even remotely competitive state you either vote for the democrat running against Trump. If not you help to keep Trump in office. If you don't want to vote for Biden then fine. I won't pretend to understand what you've been through, but if Trump wins you have to know and accept that you helped him keep his office. In that case I don't want to hear any of you "down ballot only" peeps complaining about Trump if you wouldn't even vote him out when given the chance. When he does some dumb shit that puts human lives at risk just remember that you didnt do everything you could to remove him from office. You were ok with keeping him there because you wouldn't vote for the lesser of two evils.
if you can live with that then power to you. I can't stop you for not voting Biden anymore than I can't stop a republican from voting for Trump. I just hope you understand what you're doing and willing to live with the consequences. Pointing that out is not vote shaming. You do you. I won't cast judgment. I won't even ask you voted for. You have your reasons. There are just very real and serious consequences for your actions. If those consequences make you uncomfortable that's something you'll have to work out on your own.
if you can live with that then power to you. I can't stop you for not voting Biden anymore than I can't stop a republican from voting for Trump. I just hope you understand what you're doing and willing to live with the consequences. Pointing that out is not vote shaming. You do you. I won't cast judgment. I won't even ask you voted for. You have your reasons. There are just very real and serious consequences for your actions. If those consequences make you uncomfortable that's something you'll have to work out on your own.
I was thinking implying he was dead meant it wasn't literalaly him but it didn't come across that way at all clearly so I cut it out.
Everyone is going to pretend they are unfamiliar with hyperbole until you edit this. It happens in any thread where emotion is running high. That on top of that being probably the worst example of a person doesn't help. Please change it so we aren't covered in a full page of folks quoting it....
I am firmly in camp #1. My position hasn't changed, I felt that way even when Bloomberg was being considered, as repugnant and loathsome as I think he is. Both are rapists but Trump will always be worse and do more damage in the short and the long run. We have seen ample evidence of this over the last years. His administration will always be more harmful to everyone.
It's to remove Trump, but also everything else about his administration.
- SCOTUS, most of all. Kavanaugh was a disaster, losing RGB would be even worse.
- But also removing all his cronies like Betsy Devos, Jared Kushner, etc.
- Climate change
- Not having someone who pardons monsters like Joe Arpaio.
- Muslim ban, military transgender ban, Charlottesville, children in cages, mishandling of covid-19, the list just goes on fucking forever.
Elections have consequences. Please, America. Avoid the mistakes of 2016.
It's to remove Trump, but also everything else about his administration.
- SCOTUS, most of all. Kavanaugh was a disaster, losing RGB would be even worse.
- But also removing all his cronies like Betsy Devos, Jared Kushner, etc.
- Climate change
- Not having someone who pardons monsters like Joe Arpaio.
- Muslim ban, military transgender ban, Charlottesville, children in cages, mishandling of covid-19, the list just goes on fucking forever.
Elections have consequences. Please, America. Avoid the mistakes of 2016.
Pretty much. Reality sucks.
Good point.
We're not even on the second page and we've already got an erroneous comparison argument.
Oi vey 🤦🏾♂️
Oi vey 🤦🏾♂️
OP
OP
We ban anybody implicitly or explicitly dismissing any victim's story or calling her a liar. What we haven't been hitting are posts where people are reserving judgement without impugning her. You've been doing this, but to everybody else, remember to report cases like this, as we don't have the staff to screen every thread for them manually. If you've got further questions, please contact a mod captain.
How about "This last part is especially important. To a lot of people, there's a great deal of personal trauma wrapped up in Biden's past."
Nobody is pretending, they think invoking Hitler is a disgusting and repugnant thing to do in this context regardless of hyperbole.
We'll it's not just Biden voters and DNC, it's pathetic younger voters didn't show up even though there's a lot in stake. DNC is going to continue to cater to moderates cuz those voters are the ones that show up sadly. Truly sucks
I'm with you, even though I'm a minority, we are pretty well secure financially, A Trump second term would be much much worse for many minorities/marginalized populations. I'm voting Blue, no matter who.
But I'm not going to fault people for tapping out.
If there was an election of Trump vs Hitler, I would vote for Trump.
And I hate Trump more than I have ever hated any American politician in my lifetime.
Voting is that important.
Yeah, I thought the same reading the OP, not allowing the discussion of the option of not having two rapists on the ticket seems pretty fucking unacceptable but wasn't sure whether pointing this out falls under modwhining or not?
It can be hyperbole and still being a fucking terrible thing to say. Seriously, these past few months, everytime I think my opinion of centrists couldn't get any lower, shit like this happens.
I thought implying it was a zombie was clear over the top hyperbole to show my view was "Vote straight ticket" to stop Trump but it didn't register as hyerbole so I cut it out.
It wouldn't matter, Hitler wasn't born in the US so he's not eligible. Sorry.
This is where I am at.
Voting for Biden(or whoever Dem. Wish is was Bernie or Warren) in the GE will be bigger than him.
People just remember Supreme Court Justice seats are on the line again. Whatever happens, it will affect us all. This might be the only chance there is to stop an all right side SC from being a thing.
Who do I need to contact? I've got a lot more questions. Also, there is a difference between reserving judgement and actively downplaying the accusation itself. You don't need to outright call her a liar. Saying things like "no one is talking about this, it's not going anywhere" is a dismissal of her account. "this is just happening in a bubble, ERA is different from the rest of the world" is dismissing her account. "the media isn't going to cover this and shouldn't" is dismissing her account.
This has been an ongoing issue on ERA. Victims of sexual abuse have been expressing that they don't feel welcome or respected because of these types of comments, along with more flagrant examples.
Warren voter here, voting Biden assuming he is the nominee. Too much at stake and Minnesota came dangerously close to voting for Trump last time.
The same would be true of any of the other realistic Dem nominees (namely, Sanders or Cuomo, who seem to be the most common alternatives proposed recently).
If the story is true he should absolutely step aside, but as outlined in the OP, I don't see this ending in anything other than Biden vs. Trump at this point.
The same would be true of any of the other realistic Dem nominees (namely, Sanders or Cuomo, who seem to be the most common alternatives proposed recently).
If the story is true he should absolutely step aside, but as outlined in the OP, I don't see this ending in anything other than Biden vs. Trump at this point.
I guess that's fine. I've also reposted my OP here anyways so people can see it.
I've always been on the "vote blue no matter who" train. Granted, I'm in a state where my vote matters little (Texas), but I'm gonna be there hitting the button for the D nominee. I really, really wanted Warren or Sanders, but now I'll have to vote Biden. I'll just have take a shower after I do.
OP
OP
I'm sorry if this sounds scattered as I try to get my feelings written out.
I feel like there has been a lot of handwaving away others' concerns after the newest allegation. It's frankly very disappointing that the only counterpoint is "he's better than Trump." Most people understand that, it doesn't need to be repeated ad nauseam. I'm going to hate myself for it but I'm still voting Biden in November if he's the nominee because it's bigger than a single man. But don't fucking shame people that don't want to vote for an alleged rapist. If after all these years of Democrats railing on Trump for being a rapist and being outraged at Brett Kavanuagh's nomination for his allegations, the best we can come up with is another rapist then that's just fucking sad. After talking about how the right will ignore anything Trump does, and then potentially going down a path like that with Biden? It just feels so hypocritical and is against everything I believe in.
No, Trump and Biden are not the same levels of bad. Yes, the Supreme Court is probably the most important issue in this election other than climate change. But trying to downplay or not discuss the reality of voting in an alleged rapist (this time with a D) feels wrong. I ultimately think people should vote for him if he's the nominee in the end because Trump is so dangerous, but I won't shame anyone into doing so.
I feel like there has been a lot of handwaving away others' concerns after the newest allegation. It's frankly very disappointing that the only counterpoint is "he's better than Trump." Most people understand that, it doesn't need to be repeated ad nauseam. I'm going to hate myself for it but I'm still voting Biden in November if he's the nominee because it's bigger than a single man. But don't fucking shame people that don't want to vote for an alleged rapist. If after all these years of Democrats railing on Trump for being a rapist and being outraged at Brett Kavanuagh's nomination for his allegations, the best we can come up with is another rapist then that's just fucking sad. After talking about how the right will ignore anything Trump does, and then potentially going down a path like that with Biden? It just feels so hypocritical and is against everything I believe in.
No, Trump and Biden are not the same levels of bad. Yes, the Supreme Court is probably the most important issue in this election other than climate change. But trying to downplay or not discuss the reality of voting in an alleged rapist (this time with a D) feels wrong. I ultimately think people should vote for him if he's the nominee in the end because Trump is so dangerous, but I won't shame anyone into doing so.
Texas might turn blue this year! Polling has been very close this election.
Another point for the "at least vote downticket" crowd, there are up to nine U.S. House districts that could flip, the State House majority is on the line (Beto won a majority of the districts despite losing statewide), and even the Senate race may be competitive. Biden doesn't need to win for any of that to be the case, but conscientious objectors who would otherwise vote Democratic still need to make it out to the polls.
I mean your over the top example really just provided a perfect example of everything wrong with the whole "vote blue no matter what" mentality. For an uncomfortably large amount of people that statement is literal.
I'll say what I said in the other threads.
I'm seeing it as voting AGAINST Trump and not FOR Biden. So yeah if it comes down to Biden vs Trump I am going to vote for Biden because the alternative is infinitely worse. And while I do support Biden's accuser and will choose to believe her until such a time when there is reason to do otherwise I am not willing to let the country suffer 4 more years of Trump just because Biden is also a piece of shit.
This election is for more than the presidency. It's for the future of our entire society. The next president will in all likelihood get to choose the replacement for Ginsburg. And the Republicans CANNOT be allowed to do that by any means. Immigration, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, drug laws....the list goes on and on. All of these will be twisted into versions of what Conservative Republicans want. They will send this country back to the dark ages and I cannot in good conscience contribute to that outcome by not voting for the Democratic candidate. Even if that means voting for someone like Biden. Because as bad as Biden is Trump is far fucking worse.
I'm seeing it as voting AGAINST Trump and not FOR Biden. So yeah if it comes down to Biden vs Trump I am going to vote for Biden because the alternative is infinitely worse. And while I do support Biden's accuser and will choose to believe her until such a time when there is reason to do otherwise I am not willing to let the country suffer 4 more years of Trump just because Biden is also a piece of shit.
This election is for more than the presidency. It's for the future of our entire society. The next president will in all likelihood get to choose the replacement for Ginsburg. And the Republicans CANNOT be allowed to do that by any means. Immigration, women's rights, LGBTQ rights, drug laws....the list goes on and on. All of these will be twisted into versions of what Conservative Republicans want. They will send this country back to the dark ages and I cannot in good conscience contribute to that outcome by not voting for the Democratic candidate. Even if that means voting for someone like Biden. Because as bad as Biden is Trump is far fucking worse.
I don't envy all of you in the U.S. right now. I think all of the positions in the OP have merit, but the central problem is that the ideal situation simply does not exist when you have Trump versus Biden.
Voting for Biden is, without question, signalling that sexual abuse is acceptable and those in power can get away with it. There's blood on your hands in you vote for Biden.
Not voting for Biden is, without question, choosing to allow Trump and the white nationalism that his administration is built on to go on unopposed. There's blood on your hands if you don't vote for Biden.
What you're left with is the position where the interests of various vulnerable groups are in contest. There is no good option, so it's easy to position any of these options as bad. It's fair to say that you're showing privilege with either position in that you're throwing vulnerable people under the bus one way or the other. What's more, the affected groups overlap. Sexual abuse affects non-white people. White supremacy affects non-white women. In fact, it's especially bad where it overlaps; for example, the statistics around Native American women are utterly horrifying.
If it was my place to vote in this election, I would probably feel obligated to vote for Biden, because at least on the short term settling for the lesser of the two evils is preferable to allowing the greater of them to continue. But in the back of my head, it's in my mind that America does need a revolutionary change. Once Trump or his administration is out of power by whatever method, there needs to be aggressive efforts to curtail the forces that have pushed the American electorate into this position. Establishing a new party and making efforts to build it into a national force, undermining the power of white supremacy and the organizations that support it within the country, aggressively weeding out individuals within the existing Democratic party based on their known histories, and so on.
If America is broken, it won't magically fix itself. People need to actively be aware of the problems that have put it in this state and take action to solve them.
Voting for Biden is, without question, signalling that sexual abuse is acceptable and those in power can get away with it. There's blood on your hands in you vote for Biden.
Not voting for Biden is, without question, choosing to allow Trump and the white nationalism that his administration is built on to go on unopposed. There's blood on your hands if you don't vote for Biden.
What you're left with is the position where the interests of various vulnerable groups are in contest. There is no good option, so it's easy to position any of these options as bad. It's fair to say that you're showing privilege with either position in that you're throwing vulnerable people under the bus one way or the other. What's more, the affected groups overlap. Sexual abuse affects non-white people. White supremacy affects non-white women. In fact, it's especially bad where it overlaps; for example, the statistics around Native American women are utterly horrifying.
If it was my place to vote in this election, I would probably feel obligated to vote for Biden, because at least on the short term settling for the lesser of the two evils is preferable to allowing the greater of them to continue. But in the back of my head, it's in my mind that America does need a revolutionary change. Once Trump or his administration is out of power by whatever method, there needs to be aggressive efforts to curtail the forces that have pushed the American electorate into this position. Establishing a new party and making efforts to build it into a national force, undermining the power of white supremacy and the organizations that support it within the country, aggressively weeding out individuals within the existing Democratic party based on their known histories, and so on.
If America is broken, it won't magically fix itself. People need to actively be aware of the problems that have put it in this state and take action to solve them.
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Biden is MLK's white moderate from his Birmingham letter personified. For as much as we talk about how much of a mistake it was for Sanders to court Rogan's approval and how it targets trans people as victims for inevitable compromise in legislation, Biden is at best running as a counterrevolutionary to the revitalized dem socialist movement, and trying to motivate the vote in the face of these new allegations combined with his previous remarks about segregation and medicare, makes frankly most of the country strategic victims of compromise. I won't bother to reprint my comment that Biden checks most of the boxes of ur-fascism according to Eco (and that's why I think, say, Cheebo's remark about Hitler's corpse is particularly unsettling to me) but if people aren't willing to search for it I can repost it if people need it.
Malcolm X also had a lot to say on the merits of strategic voting. I'll let you read the whole essay here, but for the sake of brevity I think this point is particularly salient, especially in this current time of the precariat:
Malcolm X also had a lot to say on the merits of strategic voting. I'll let you read the whole essay here, but for the sake of brevity I think this point is particularly salient, especially in this current time of the precariat:
How about fuck off. Its not even a contest as to who is worse in this situation and the fact we have members here who have family affected by Hitler's reign have to read this shit is beyond infuriating. You should be permed for saying that.
I'm sure Jewish posters think this is hilarious.
I would even vote for Bloomberg or Tulsi Gabbard if they were the Democratic nominee, no convincing needed.
I've been very open on this board about being a survivor of sexual assault and abuse, but if Biden is the candidate i will vote for him 100 times out of 100. Making sure Trump doesnt get to continue stacking the judicial system is the most important thing I can do. Making sure to remember the way that Trump handled Puerto Rico and COVID that led to thousands of lives lost. Looking at the way Trump is constantly working to accelerate manmade climate change. Watching the rise in neo fascism and literal nazis since Trump took office.
Biden sucks. We all know this. But we can't let Trump win again.
Biden sucks. We all know this. But we can't let Trump win again.
User banned (2 weeks): hostility, ignoring discussion guidelines + backseat moderation on another post
"I don't wanna hear any of you survivors of sexual assault who refuse to vote for a rapist complaining about the rapist who's in power."
Quite frankly, you can eat shit.
I would say pointing out that this is getting no news coverage and thus won't effect the election has nothing to do with whether her story is true. She could be 100% telling the truth, and I assume she is because I am never going to question a woman coming forward.
But that doesn't change the lack of news coverage and whether it can effect the primary. Two separate points I would say.
I want to believe this. I really do. Beto's numbers against Cruz do give me hope. Never thought I'd see him stack up so well against that spineless sack of shit. If I could see Texas a blue state for a presidential election, I legit think I might break down in tears of joy.
The entire reason why you still have people willing to stay home than vote for Trump is because you all keep insisting that Donald Trump is some sort of anomaly in the system. I'll say it until my face is blue- the biggest crime Trump committed is saying the quiet parts (to the ignorant and those who look the other way.) out loud.
None of the shit he's doing started exclusively with him. It's the pony show the United States has done to other countries and demographics for a long fucking time. The Democratic party for almost a decade now has consistently talked moral game but have zero obligations to uphold it when it counts. It's a fucking shame Republicans are this bad because the DNC has been allowed to coast by on simply being 'better than the other guy' like that has ever been a fucking high bar to beat to begin with.
Every year it's always 'Oh you'll get these policies but we have to beat X first'. There is always someone in the way. There is always someone to beat first, but the reality it's all horseshit. They just don't want to or believe in these policies.
If you want to stop Democratic infighting than the DNC needs to stop pretending it's for minorities, queer people, sexual assault vitctims, etc. While only fielding candidates that have a long history of supporting bills and legislation that has harmed these very groups and lionizing anybody else who truly live up the the ideals the DNC signals just to boost numbers.
You hate Sanders with a burning passion? Fine. I hate it- because I have immense respect for a politician that actually walks the fucking talk but fine let's talk about the other options y'all like on here. Why not Pete? Why not Warren? Why not Cuomo? Why not Klobacher? It's all an intentional system of Catch-22. Democrats never field candidates that young leftist people care about so they don't vote. The only people who vote are slightly morally conscious moderates who would ultimately for shitty policies if it means they get to keep negative peace or their stocks or whatever make more money so DNC keeps fielding these candidates and young leftists continue sitting at home.
But here's the real kicker the DNC LOVES courting REPUBLICAN non voters so they keep bringing in progressively right wing candidates that say bullshit like 'back to normalcy' to placate moderates and that's how we get crap like Biden and Bloomberg on the D ticket.
It's all about winning. I've asked this 5 times now and nobody has answered this:
If Donald Trump wasn't the president right now- what the fuck do voters have to honestly look forward to? What are they standing behind Joe Biden for? Because if he wins the GE he still has to do SOMETHING for 4 fucking years and based on his own campaign site he's not even committing to fully reversing Trumps tax cuts.
None of the shit he's doing started exclusively with him. It's the pony show the United States has done to other countries and demographics for a long fucking time. The Democratic party for almost a decade now has consistently talked moral game but have zero obligations to uphold it when it counts. It's a fucking shame Republicans are this bad because the DNC has been allowed to coast by on simply being 'better than the other guy' like that has ever been a fucking high bar to beat to begin with.
Every year it's always 'Oh you'll get these policies but we have to beat X first'. There is always someone in the way. There is always someone to beat first, but the reality it's all horseshit. They just don't want to or believe in these policies.
If you want to stop Democratic infighting than the DNC needs to stop pretending it's for minorities, queer people, sexual assault vitctims, etc. While only fielding candidates that have a long history of supporting bills and legislation that has harmed these very groups and lionizing anybody else who truly live up the the ideals the DNC signals just to boost numbers.
You hate Sanders with a burning passion? Fine. I hate it- because I have immense respect for a politician that actually walks the fucking talk but fine let's talk about the other options y'all like on here. Why not Pete? Why not Warren? Why not Cuomo? Why not Klobacher? It's all an intentional system of Catch-22. Democrats never field candidates that young leftist people care about so they don't vote. The only people who vote are slightly morally conscious moderates who would ultimately for shitty policies if it means they get to keep negative peace or their stocks or whatever make more money so DNC keeps fielding these candidates and young leftists continue sitting at home.
But here's the real kicker the DNC LOVES courting REPUBLICAN non voters so they keep bringing in progressively right wing candidates that say bullshit like 'back to normalcy' to placate moderates and that's how we get crap like Biden and Bloomberg on the D ticket.
It's all about winning. I've asked this 5 times now and nobody has answered this:
If Donald Trump wasn't the president right now- what the fuck do voters have to honestly look forward to? What are they standing behind Joe Biden for? Because if he wins the GE he still has to do SOMETHING for 4 fucking years and based on his own campaign site he's not even committing to fully reversing Trumps tax cuts.
Sorry, I can't. Maybe if I were in a swing state I could sully my vote with Biden's name but I just can't justify it personally and morally. More power to the rest of you.
And I know we're likely beyond this point, but Bernie is still in the race. Let your friends and family know that he's still an option so that we might avoid being forced to vote between two rapists.
And I know we're likely beyond this point, but Bernie is still in the race. Let your friends and family know that he's still an option so that we might avoid being forced to vote between two rapists.
That example is the very definition of the lesser of two evils, so yes.
Yeah, this thread title hugely downplays the real issue at hand. The mods are acting suspect.
I urge everyone to remember why this community was resettled here in the first place. We can't just sweep this issue under the rug. And that goes for everyone in this community, from top to bottom.
Biden is a complete piece of shit for sure... but the world simply won't survive another 4 years of Trump.
There's no "good" option here for sure, but one outcome fucking sucks and the other... is apocalyptic.
God... I really wish it was Elizabeth Warren or Bernie in this instead.
There's no "good" option here for sure, but one outcome fucking sucks and the other... is apocalyptic.
God... I really wish it was Elizabeth Warren or Bernie in this instead.
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