One of Sony's biggest problems is the lack of an big IP with merchandising. Will it change with the PS5?

KORNdog

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,203
what? even with the OP's updated clarification this thread makes no sense. sony have no IP's that sell well? what? lol
 

Mass_Pincup

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,490
They are not though, that's the problem. Sony has really, really big IPs, but they only live inside the Playstation ( Console ).
You can buy Fortnite Shirts at Primark, Super Mario Shirts at H&M and i can go on.

If for some unknown and granted very very unlikely reason the PS5 is a failure, Sony's can't bank on making money through other stuff.

If the next Nintendo Console is a failure Nintendo still makes billions of profits thorugh Merch alone because these are not bound to a console.
Are you talking about Sony or Playstation? Because they're 2 different things.

what? even with the OP's updated clarification this thread makes no sense. sony have no IP's that sell well? what? lol
The OP means no big multi media franchise.
 

Franco_Tech

Member
Oct 30, 2017
954
So i stumbled upon this Wikipedia article:

List of highest-grossing media franchises

And while of course not all of them are gaming franchises, the lack of a really big Sony IP ( apart from GT being last ) is apparent. And while of course Nintendo is the non plus ultra on, there are also the likes of Activision, Square Enix and even Microsoft doing a better Job at developing their IPs.

Now i know Sony has this thing of basically changing IPs every generation. This is clear when you look at Naughty Dog games.
But hasn't this basically prevented Sony from developing a really big IP?

It‘s not only games. It's Movies, Merch etc. Minecraft made more Money with Merchandise than with their Games

Will Sony be able to develop a long lasting IP? And which IP could it be? Uncharted? The Last Of Us? Horizon?


Just to be clear. TLOU, Horizon and God Of war are all amazing games, TLOU is probably one of my GOATs. Sony of course is doing fine without having a juggernaut IP. I just think it's an important part of a brand identity to have one.

EDIT:

I'm n ot arguing Sales! I'm not saying Sony hasn't developed any IPs that are selling well.
Perhaps i'm not able to express myself well (with my poor english). But i'm talking about more than games sold.

Pokemon is the biggest brand not because they sold so many games, but because of Licensed merchandise.
Looks like you still on the past this is not the PS3 era. Sony now have a lot of big franchise unlike Microsoft that the one they had are now drying. God of War uncharted and the last of us are bigger now than Halo or gears and maybe with another release Horizon could too.
 
OP
OP
plow

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
434
Nintendo doesn't own the whole Pokemon IP, but you certainly used that example.
They own a big part of it
They don't need to over-merchandise - they focus on games. I hope they stay that way, focused.
You can do both. See Nintendo.

Looks like you still on the past this is not the PS3 era. Sony now have a lot of big franchise unlike Microsoft that the one they had are now drying. God of War uncharted and the last of us are bigger now than Halo or gears and maybe with another release Horizon could too.
Biggest IP =/ Most games sold.
 

Matty H

Member
Oct 31, 2017
351
Uncharted is probably their IP with the broadest appeal but it's a bit generic and lacking in iconography.

Kratos is iconic but not massively appealing beyond the games. The recent game goes some way to modernising him but not in a kid friendly way.

Horizon: Zero Dawn has the best chance to really explode outside of games. Alloy with the big red hair and a bow really stands out. The robot dinosaurs have 'toy line' written all over them.
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
99
Going by the huge numbers Sony is putting up with PSN compared to the competition, I guess Sony fans are buying their digital products instead of plastic toys and t-shirts.
 

OrbitalBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,621
what? even with the OP's updated clarification this thread makes no sense. sony have no IP's that sell well? what? lol
I honestly can't believe some of you are being serious.

It's incredibly obvious what the OP is talking about: strong cross-media IP. Franchises that have strong non-gaming merchandising power. IP like Mario, Minecraft, Pokemon, Halo, etc.

PlayStation doesn't focus on this and that's perfectly fine.....but how some of you don't understand what the OP is speaking about is hard for me to believe. This community has a really hard time conversing in good faith sometimes and it's really frustrating.
 
OP
OP
plow

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
434
Also i don't like the premise of people in these Thread saying "Well Sony makes money elswhere they don't need Merch".

That's not how Business works. If there is an are where Sony could improve they should totally do it. It's like saying l MS doesn't need XBOX because they are making enough money with Windows.

Doing amazing numbers on one business area does not mean you shouldn't do good on other areas.

I honestly can't believe some of you are being serious.

It's incredibly obvious what the OP is talking about: strong cross-media IP. Franchises that have strong non-gaming merchandising power. IP like Mario, Minecraft, Pokemon, Halo, etc.

PlayStation doesn't focus on this and that's perfectly fine.....but how some of you don't understand what the OP is speaking about is hard for me to believe. This community has a really hard time conversing in good faith sometimes and it's really frustrating.
Thank you. I'm not sure i'll ever start a thread again after this, it's pretty annoying actually.
 

Papacheeks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,429
Watertown, NY
I mean if course they're popular, but 'dominating the majority of the gaming mindshare' indicates to me that they're still the best selling games of the year and getting tons of press when I haven't really seen that this year. I could be mistaken though which was why I wondered what GoW/HZD/Uncharted discussions and news I missed recently.
Look up days gone. It's been the talk this year because it was a hyped game, and then critically didn't go over as well, but word of mouth has made it one of the best selling games of 2019. Especially in UK.
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,418
Pretty much this. What op sees from other companies is the same ips crammed down or throats for perpetuity. You'll get your Pokemon entry 37, Halo book 22, I don't need that from any franchise that Sony has.

I'd rather fresh things all the time with the occasional bringing back something familiar.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,999
I honestly can't believe some of you are being serious.

It's incredibly obvious what the OP is talking about: strong cross-media IP. Franchises that have strong non-gaming merchandising power. IP like Mario, Minecraft, Pokemon, Halo, etc.

PlayStation doesn't focus on this and that's perfectly fine.....but how some of you don't understand what the OP is speaking about is hard for me to believe. This community has a really hard time conversing in good faith sometimes and it's really frustrating.
Putting Halo in that company is funny. I've said it a few times, but Sony do infact have a lot of merch, just because people are pretending they don't doesn't make it true. Them not being on Mario, Pokemon or Minecraft levels also doesn't mean it doesn't exist, as if they were standard to judge the rest, nothing outside of Disney and a couple other non gaming I.Ps would meet that mark.
 

Franco_Tech

Member
Oct 30, 2017
954
I think their mayor merchandise seller is their PlayStation logo. They sell a ton of merchandise with only the PlayStation logo, I think of the three big is the most that sells. Not including mascots because those Pokemon Mario and the Zelda's logo sells like crazy. I had not seen anyone in years with a Halo shirt.
 

OrbitalBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,621
Putting Halo in that company is funny. I've said it a few times, but Sony do infact have a lot of merch, just because people are pretending they don't doesn't make it true. Them not being on Mario, Pokemon or Minecraft levels also doesn't mean it doesn't exist, as if they were standard to judge the rest, nothing outside of Disney and a couple other non gaming I.Ps would meet that mark.
From a cross-media standpoint, Halo is (was? the IP has definitely slowed down in recent years) a significantly larger IP merch-wise than anything PlayStation has ever put out.

Which, as I stated earlier, is fine. Cross-media promotion just isn't something PlayStation is focused on. And it's understandable, as most of their franchises aren't well suited for it.
 

Papacheeks

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,429
Watertown, NY
I know what Days Gone is, and I live in the UK. Thanks anyway.

I don't think it's altogether something that disputes the claims made by the OP regardless.
I think thats my point along with others in this thread. They don't need to have mascots. Their branding is now that they have the high quality IP's worth getting a console for. ANd the sales of all their first party especially from last year like spiderman, god of war prove that point.
 

UltimusXI

Member
Oct 27, 2017
193
Gran Turismo is not iconic? lol
Why do you think it IS iconic? What is iconic about it from the general public's perspective? If they see someone playing it, would they automatically say 'hey Gran Turismo!'? I don't think so, even if they might have heard of the name. Maybe 20 years ago, but not now.

No racing game with licensed cars can be as iconic as something like Mario (Kart) of Pokémon, where you instantly recognize what's on screen. Every other game manufacturer can license the same cars as in GT. Hell, the people seeing those cars in the game might just say 'hey, a Nissan GTR!' instead of 'hey, you're playing Gran Turismo!'.

Related to this topic: how would you monetize Gran Turismo outside of gaming? The logo is possible, but what else? All of the cars are owned by their respective manufacturers.
 

ThreepQuest64

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
2,515
Germany
If that's Sony's biggest problem they are undestroyable.

For me personally, merchandise is almost irrelevant. I stopped buying what I see now as useless stuff a few years ago. Exceptions are some shirts and stuff that have a practical use for me, but anything that's just standing on my shelf and collects dust isn't worth a penny. My brother had a Overwatch figurine as a present for me and did appreciate the gesture and I have memories of him attached to that item–that's different and I'm gladly have that figurine collecting dust on my shelf. But investing my money in merchandise items isn't really my thing anymore.
 

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
8,077
Tbilisi, Georgia
Thanks for the clarification, OP.

While I don't think they need it. I could see some of their IPs successfully converted to other forms of media.

Such as Horizon. Could make a very good setting.
 
Oct 25, 2017
6,586
Underground
I get what you are saying, but I fail to see how this is a (big) problem. Calling it such seems hyperbolic. None of your posts in this thread are a convincing enough argument as to why it's an actual problem. And unless you're a shareholder or making money from Sony in some way, why should you or anyone else care?
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,999
From a cross-media standpoint, Halo is (was? the IP has definitely slowed down in recent years) a significantly larger IP merch-wise than anything PlayStation has ever put out.

Which, as I stated earlier, is fine. Cross-media promotion just isn't something PlayStation is focused on. And it's understandable, as most of their franchises aren't well suited for it.
Which means nothing, as they haven't kept a suitable franchise around long enough to build it up as Halo has (which really isn't that wide, mostly just books, couple mediocre shows and the usual stuff a lot of popular games get), the PS Brand itself is what they choose to keep as the mainstay for pushing merch. They still have a lot of merch though.
 

Lionheart

Member
Oct 26, 2017
611
Once you make a product for the purpose of selling merchandise you become a slave to that ip, forcing you to churn out sequel after sequel for eternity.

Sony's flexibility with their IPs works in their favor and one of the reasons they are able to stay relevant gen after gen, because they refresh their lineup and that excites their audience.
 
Aug 26, 2018
1,155
So i stumbled upon this Wikipedia article:

List of highest-grossing media franchises

And while of course not all of them are gaming franchises, the lack of a really big Sony IP ( apart from GT being last ) is apparent. And while of course Nintendo is the non plus ultra on, there are also the likes of Activision, Square Enix and even Microsoft doing a better Job at developing their IPs.

Now i know Sony has this thing of basically changing IPs every generation. This is clear when you look at Naughty Dog games.
But hasn't this basically prevented Sony from developing a really big IP?

It‘s not only games. It's Movies, Merch etc. Minecraft made more Money with Merchandise than with their Games

Will Sony be able to develop a long lasting IP? And which IP could it be? Uncharted? The Last Of Us? Horizon?


Just to be clear. TLOU, Horizon and God Of war are all amazing games, TLOU is probably one of my GOATs. Sony of course is doing fine without having a juggernaut IP. I just think it's an important part of a brand identity to have one.

EDIT:

I'm n ot arguing Sales! I'm not saying Sony hasn't developed any IPs that are selling well.
Perhaps i'm not able to express myself well (with my poor english). But i'm talking about more than games sold.

Pokemon is the biggest brand not because they sold so many games, but because of Licensed merchandise.
Going into next gen, Sony will have atleast 4 franchises which are 10+ Million Sellers which are HUGE IPs:

God of War
HZD
Spider-Man
The Last of Us ( Franchise? Not sure)

So, don't think they have a problem with Huge IPs.
 
OP
OP
plow

plow

Member
Oct 28, 2017
434
Going into next gen, Sony will have atleast 4 franchises which are 10+ Million Sellers which are HUGE IPs:

God of War
HZD
Spider-Man
The Last of Us ( Franchise? Not sure)

So, don't think they have a problem with Huge IPs.
None of these Franchises generate money outside of the games itself. Which is the point of my thread.
Also Sony doesn't own Spiderman.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,999
Going into next gen, Sony will have atleast 4 franchises which are 10+ Million Sellers which are HUGE IPs:

God of War
HZD
Spider-Man
The Last of Us ( Franchise? Not sure)

So, don't think they have a problem with Huge IPs.
TLoU is a franchise, already has a couple comics and the usually stuff like shirts, figures, posters and at some point a planned movie (though seems it's super dead) and (obviously) as well as a sequel coming.
 

OrbitalBeard

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,621
Which means nothing, as they haven't kept a suitable franchise around long enough to build it up as Halo has (which really isn't that wide, mostly just books, couple mediocre shows and the usual stuff a lot of popular games get), the PS Brand itself is what they choose to keep as the mainstay for pushing merch. They still have a lot of merch though.
I think the "they haven't kept a suitable franchise around long enough to build it up" point is kind of what the OP is getting at. I wonder if Uncharted will be that IP, as they're likely working on a new entry for PS5.
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,976
England
Many of their iconic games like Crash, Spyro, FFVII all ended up on other platforms dventually, that’s the issue.
Yeah, I mean they appeared on a Sony platform, were, for a time, associated with it, but are fundamentally another companies property. Sony doesn't really have anything that equates to that trio of items and, even then, they are down the pecking order in terms of being at that top tier.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
10,832
what? even with the OP's updated clarification this thread makes no sense. sony have no IP's that sell well? what? lol
That's not what the thread is about.

It's about things like the Uncharted movie, merchandise, crossmedia content (Card games, TV series, cartoons, novels, etc.)

I think Sony can improve in this regard. They've completely nailed it in their most important field of expertise; games. But on other fronts they could improve for sure.

Maintaining an IP is more than building great games. (Building great games comes first tho)
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,999
I think the "they haven't kept a suitable franchise around long enough to build it up" point is kind of what the OP is getting at. I wonder if Uncharted will be that IP, as they're likely working on a new entry for PS5.
That point isn't when you suddenly have merch and stuff. OP is just uninformed.
Uncharted is in a weird spot right now I think, the creators have moved on, which is usually not super good for long term planning, i think it just needs a break, guess we'll see how the movie does.
 

Bundy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,071
So i stumbled upon this Wikipedia article:

List of highest-grossing media franchises

And while of course not all of them are gaming franchises, the lack of a really big Sony IP ( apart from GT being last ) is apparent. And while of course Nintendo is the non plus ultra on, there are also the likes of Activision, Square Enix and even Microsoft doing a better Job at developing their IPs.

Now i know Sony has this thing of basically changing IPs every generation. This is clear when you look at Naughty Dog games.
But hasn't this basically prevented Sony from developing a really big IP?

It‘s not only games. It's Movies, Merch etc. Minecraft made more Money with Merchandise than with their Games

Will Sony be able to develop a long lasting IP? And which IP could it be? Uncharted? The Last Of Us? Horizon?


Just to be clear. TLOU, Horizon and God Of war are all amazing games, TLOU is probably one of my GOATs. Sony of course is doing fine without having a juggernaut IP. I just think it's an important part of a brand identity to have one.

EDIT:

I'm n ot arguing Sales! I'm not saying Sony hasn't developed any IPs that are selling well.
Perhaps i'm not able to express myself well (with my poor english). But i'm talking about more than games sold.

Pokemon is the biggest brand not because they sold so many games, but because of Licensed merchandise.
Makes no sense. The Last of Us, God of War, Uncharted etc. are huge.
Maintaining an IP is more than building great games. (Building great games comes first tho)
If by "maintaining an IP" you mean releasing the same IPs again and again for 5 generation, then no thanks.
Sony loves to make new big AAA IPs every gen. And I hope it stays that way.
 

edo_kid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,305
Why do you think it IS iconic? What is iconic about it from the general public's perspective? If they see someone playing it, would they automatically say 'hey Gran Turismo!'? I don't think so, even if they might have heard of the name. Maybe 20 years ago, but not now.

No racing game with licensed cars can be as iconic as something like Mario (Kart) of Pokémon, where you instantly recognize what's on screen. Every other game manufacturer can license the same cars as in GT. Hell, the people seeing those cars in the game might just say 'hey, a Nissan GTR!' instead of 'hey, you're playing Gran Turismo!'.

Related to this topic: how would you monetize Gran Turismo outside of gaming? The logo is possible, but what else? All of the cars are owned by their respective manufacturers.
Who said anything about it being as iconic as Mario or anything else?
GT is one of the most popular and recognizable racing game of the last 20 years, i literally don't know anyone that grew up in the PS1/PS2 era than doesn't know GT.
If that doesn't make it iconic i don't what do.

On a merchandising and awareness level, are you equating it to something like Pokemon? Because it is nowhere near.
You don't need to be at same level as Pokemon to be iconic, Tekken is iconic and is not at that level either.
 

KORNdog

Member
Oct 30, 2017
3,203
I think the OPs thoughts revolve around Sony not being able to make a universe to any of their IPs, as Nintendo has with Pokemon and Mario.
isn't that the entire appeal of sony and their approach to the first party output. that a lot of it is new and not constant re-treads every generation? i mean, i know mario and the like are evergreen IP's, but there's also an argument to be made about how tired they can get too and how few and far between new IP's are within nintendo. i think MS are a prime example of a company that had those kinds of pillar franchises the OP is apparently talking about, but didn't expand beyond them and as a result, interest has waned dramatically, because despite how popular halo may have been, it wasn't even close to mirroring what nintendo have with mario and zelda. sony likely understand that it's futile trying to build a mascot-level IP and so instead focus on doing new and great things. i'm more than ok with that tbh.

but i'm still not entirely sure what the OP is talking about. people have said it's about cross media IP's. in what sense? ratchet and clank having a movie and games, and cuddly toys? uncharted having books, high end statues from sideshow? 1:6 figures, and an upcoming movie? or LBP with soft toys and broad appeal merch. i mean, to what extent is the OP talking? how big is big?
 

Alex840

Member
Oct 31, 2017
3,027
Their IP tend to focus on more on mature subject matter and their character often reflect that. Adults just as interested in toys like children would be with a Pikachu cuddly toy, for example.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,011
GoW and Uncharted will easily enter that list next-gen. GoW is bigger than ever. And Uncharted is getting a reboot + a movie franchise. Also we'll see if the next Ratchet sells even better than the reboot.
 

Evilisk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,200
Pretty much this. What op sees from other composite is the same ips crammed down or throats for perpetuity. You'll get your Pokemon entry 37, I don't need that from any franchise that Sony has.

I'd rather fresh things all the time with the occasional bringing back something familiar.
This is how I feel

I don't really want to see developers like Naughty Dog or Media Molecule get chained down to one series just so Sony can make more merch money

The only two Sony things to ever get that sort of push were Crash and LBP. Maybe Ape Escape in Japan, too.
After seeing a video of that PaRappa Cafe, I'm convinced PaRappa is / was up there as well (but only in Japan. Like with Ape Escape)

 

noyram23

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,078
They let their studio make whatever they want and most of them choose ip that aren't really easy to merchandise, they also let them move on if they want to except probably for PD so there's also that. I don't see any problem with that since I'm not into buying merchandise
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,999
Check the wiki article. They are nowhere on there. The only thing is Gran Turismo, which props up the bottom of the list. Huge is relative. Our sun is huge, it is tiny when compared to other entities.
I wouldn't put a whole lot of weight behind that list, that information is not very available or up to date.
 

Bundy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,071
Check the wiki article. They are nowhere on there. The only thing is Gran Turismo, which props up the bottom of the list. Huge is relative. Our sun is huge, it is tiny when compared to other entities.
Dude, to be honest, I actually don't care about that wiki article. Sony should sell more merch of their games? More trading cards, t-shirts, DVDs and shit? What? Nah, thanks. Put that money into game development. For more & bigger games. Especially for new IPs. Why should I, or any other gamers, care for lame ass merch so a certain game tops the list of a wiki page?
PlayStation already has a gear shop. That's already way enough.
 

PhantomKnight

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,199
Sony did try with plenty of their IP's in the past, for example, Ratchet and Clank, they had a movie for it but it didn't pan out.
And not long ago they created a Playstation Production to create new films & TV for their IP, starting with Twisted Metal. So they are trying to expand their current IP, whether it would be successful or not we don't know.

Also, it's kinda odd to compare the Last of Us, Uncharted, HZD to Pokemon, Mario and Minecraft since the latter are more aimed at kids.
 

SuikerBrood

Member
Jan 21, 2018
10,832
If by "maintaining an IP" you mean releasing the same IPs again and again for 5 generation, then no thanks.
Sony loves to make new big AAA IPs every gen. And I hope it stays that way.
I don't agree with the OP that it's a 'big problem' for Sony. It's just a (forced?) choice. Sony just doesn't have the IP to achieve what Pokémon, Minecraft and to a lesser extent Sonic have achieved. But they could push it some more.

Like.. everywhere I go I see children wearing Fortnite shirts. That's building an IP just as much as making great games is.

I don't think they really mind. But it's something to note.