One of Sony's biggest problems is the lack of an big IP with merchandising. Will it change with the PS5?

CRIMSON-XIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
Chicago, IL
As far as cross generational IPs go. They definitely have a plan for Horizon 2, God of War 2 and Spider man 2. That goes without saying.

They just have to bring in more on top of it. Andthey will. We may get another SOCOM revival one day soon. As far as games like Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank, and Sly Cooper... I think those types of games had their chance but who knows, maybe we will get more eventually.
 

Barrel Cannon

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,749
???

The eyetoy was just a camera for the PS2. They sold around 10 million of those and had several dozen games either made for it or that contained enhancements. That wasn't a failure by any means, even if you don't consider the PS Move and PSVR both use similar cameras.
Crap, my bad I'm referring to the Playstation Eye(I didn't know it was called that, I thought it was called the eyetoy as well). The game I was referring to specifcally was "the Eye of Judgement" where you bought booster packs of trading cards that you'd scan to use in the video game itself. The cards are what I meant when I said merchandising. The peripheral itself I think would be considered a success just like the Eyetoy and the PSVR camera as it was used for the Move like you mentioned.
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
4,890
Crap, my bad I'm referring to the Playstation Eye(I didn't know it was called that, I thought it was called the eyetoy as well). The game I was referring to specifcally was "the Eye of Judgement" where you bought booster packs of trading cards that you'd scan to use in the video game itself. The cards are what I meant when I said merchandising. The peripheral itself I think would be considered a success just like the Eyetoy and the PSVR camera as it was used for the Move like you mentioned.
Forgot all about the eye of judgement game, so I see where you were going with that comment.
 

Necron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,033
Switzerland
If we're talking mascot/brand like a Sonic/Mario then... No. They don't. I fail to see how that is relevant anymore though... since about PS2? The closest they ever got was Crash Bandicoot during the PS1 era.

However, you will find A LOT of PlayStation® branded stuff. They promote the brand as a whole; it always was more about the platform and a collection of IP.
 

Jade1962

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,176
Guess like other's said I don't view this as a problem. In fact I think it's better that PlayStation is branded by one particular franchise. Look how Xbox is considered a shooter box or that Nintendo is for kids. Part of these stereotypes is breed from their consoles being highly associated with Mario and Halo.

And ultimately I want a game company to be highly reliant on making games and not about selling merchandise so that they have more incentive to make good games and not toys.
 

Soprano

Member
Oct 28, 2017
691
Is merchandising the new multiplayer?

You do get an occasional toy or comic book with Sony's big IP's, even clothing, but large scale merchandising? They don't need it and in no way is that a bad thing. Their games already sell millions and are well known. Attaching Doritos or other major brands to their games isn't going to help their games become more popular than they already are.
 
Nov 21, 2018
60
One would have to be a next level fanboy to believe Sony has more valuable ips than Nintendo. Internet never disappoints
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
4,890
One would have to be a next level fanboy to believe Sony has more valuable ips than Nintendo. Internet never disappoints
Pop quiz: what's the more profitable IP? the one that sells 20 million copies? Or the one that sells 10 million plus a $39.99 online subscription for two years? Because Sony has quite a few of that second one where Nintendo does not.
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
4,890
What do you mean? I don't follow.
The value of an IP goes past how many copies you can sell at retail. Something like TLOU remastered or Bloodborne have a multiplayer component designed to rope people into PS+ and keep them paying 39.99 a year for it.

If an IP is NOT designed to do this- bring people into the ecosystem and keep them there as recurring revenue- it's less valuable.
 
Nov 21, 2018
60
Pop quiz: what's the more profitable IP? the one that sells 20 million copies? Or the one that sells 10 million plus a $39.99 online subscription for two years? Because Sony has quite a few of that second one where Nintendo does not.
..what sells the subscription is call of duty and gtav etc....not sony's first party games..
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
4,890
Disney/Marvel owns the merchandising rights to Spider-Man.
While technically true, PS4 spiderman is a PS4 title running on Sony's platform- meaning they automatically take 30-40% of the retail cost, plus another chunk of whatever the DLC is. They make way more from that than Disney does via merchandising rights- if that's even applicable. A digital game isn't merchandise per se.
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,310
The value of an IP goes past how many copies you can sell at retail. Something like TLOU remastered or Bloodborne have a multiplayer component designed to rope people into PS+ and keep them paying 39.99 a year for it.

If an IP is NOT designed to do this- bring people into the ecosystem and keep them there as recurring revenue- it's less valuable.
People buy PS+ subscriptions on PS4... for Bloodborne and a remaster of a last gen game?

I don't see the correlation unless you have a source.

And FWIW Nintendo also have online games to push their paid online service.

I'm a bit perplexed by this take TBH. You've only made me more confused really.
 

Git

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,117
Their marketed brand is PlayStation, you can get any kind of shit with that on. I'm sure they do pretty well off of it, same for Nintendo and Xbox.
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
4,890
People buy PS+ subscriptions on PS4... for Bloodborne and a remaster of a last gen game?
Absolutely. Bloodborne is the definition of a system seller- GOTY awards all over the place, as is TLOU Remastered. Both of those have extremely well integrated online components. The PS4 edition of TLOU *outsold* the PS3 version of it, FYI- and was one of the first high profile multiplayer games available on the system.

Exclusives sell systems, and exclusives rope people into the PS+ ecosystem. If Microsoft had the stronger first party stable, those people would have Live accounts instead.
 
Nov 21, 2018
60
You could play those on PC or Xbox.

Sony's PS4 is the go to platform because *that's where the Sony exclusive games are*
....you gotta be trolling at this point. anyway I think the op is correct in saying sony doesn't have much big ip with merchandising. I think they were trying that with the ratchet and clank movie but it ultimately underperformed. Sony is still successfull either way
 

Manmademan

Member
Aug 6, 2018
4,890
Maybe for like 20% of people the rest choose Playstation because it's the most popular platform.
Playstation being the most popular platform has a lot to do with Sony putting heavy investment into its first party titles towards the latter end of the PS3 while microsoft left the Xbox to die on a vine with virtually nothing. You can't really separate the two here.
 

Raijinto

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,310
Absolutely. Bloodborne is the definition of a system seller- GOTY awards all over the place, as is TLOU Remastered. Both of those have extremely well integrated online components. The PS4 edition of TLOU *outsold* the PS3 version of it, FYI- and was one of the first high profile multiplayer games available on the system.

Exclusives sell systems, and exclusives rope people into the PS+ ecosystem. If Microsoft had the stronger first party stable, those people would have Live accounts instead.
Again I'm not seeing the correlation. I've never once heard Sony claim that Bloodborne or TLOU Remastered are driving their PS+ subscriptions so I will continue to believe that more online focused, higher selling multi platform games like FIFA & Destiny are much more important in this regard.

We're also kind of off topic at this point as well.
 

Romez

Member
Nov 11, 2017
260
Closest they came was Sackboy, but he’s tied to LBP which isn’t a game you can drag through generations.

No one wants to play LBP 4, 5 or 6. They also tried to make a kart game and no one gave a shit.

I don’t see what else they could do with Sackboy in terms of making new, interesting games.
 

harry the spy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
772
I actually tend to somewhat agree - I love PS games but somehow never develop much of an attachment to the ip. Like I really don't give a rats ass about Nathan drake or kratos. My biggest attachment is to Sony adjacent ip.

Random question - when square crashed and burned and was more or less acquired by enix - could Sony have acquired them?
 

SRO7

Member
Nov 30, 2017
438
TLOU
Uncharted
God of War
KillZone
Gran Turismo
Little Big Planet
Spider Man
etc

All million sellers

Come on Op
 

CRIMSON-XIII

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,125
Chicago, IL
Closest they came was Sackboy, but he’s tied to LBP which isn’t a game you can drag through generations.

No one wants to play LBP 4, 5 or 6. They also tried to make a kart game and no one gave a shit.

I don’t see what else they could do with Sackboy in terms of making new, interesting games.
What about Crash or Spyro? Surely more iconic then Sackboy.

Idk. I am in the camp that thinks that Mario is the most known. Someone like Snake, Masterchief, Doom Guy, Link, and the rest are not as known as Mario.
 

DeathyG

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,435
NW Indiana
People have the oddest complaints about Sony.

The reason for this "problem" is because of their philosophy to create new IPs. If that's a problem, then maybe PlayStation isn't for you.
 
Oct 27, 2017
276
If that really was close to being one of Sony's biggest problems, then they could quite happily pat themselves on the back for a job well done.
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,393
If we're talking mascot/brand like a Sonic/Mario then... No. They don't. I fail to see how that is relevant anymore though... since about PS2? The closest they ever got was Crash Bandicoot during the PS1 era.

However, you will find A LOT of PlayStation® branded stuff. They promote the brand as a whole; it always was more about the platform and a collection of IP.
This. Sony would prefer the brand is stronger, not the IP. It's the reason they are synonymous with gaming.
 

Tyaren

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,967
Closest they came was Sackboy, but he’s tied to LBP which isn’t a game you can drag through generations.

No one wants to play LBP 4, 5 or 6. They also tried to make a kart game and no one gave a shit.

I don’t see what else they could do with Sackboy in terms of making new, interesting games.


;)
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,887
Pop quiz: what's the more profitable IP? the one that sells 20 million copies? Or the one that sells 10 million plus a $39.99 online subscription for two years? Because Sony has quite a few of that second one where Nintendo does not.
The value of an IP goes past how many copies you can sell at retail. Something like TLOU remastered or Bloodborne have a multiplayer component designed to rope people into PS+ and keep them paying 39.99 a year for it.

If an IP is NOT designed to do this- bring people into the ecosystem and keep them there as recurring revenue- it's less valuable.
Bloodborne and TLOU Remastered vs Mario Kart 8D, Smash Ultimate, Pokémon Let's Go, Splatoon 2, Mario Maker 2... yeah I sure wonder which platform has more 1st party games driving subscriptions. lol
 

Thrill_house

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,934
Nah. They don't need it. They have strong and diverse ips and they seem to always come up with new games. I'm good on getting a million fucking sequels to a game because they don't want to let something die and take a risk on a new project.

And as far as merch is concerned...just no. Put your effort and money into studios instead if junk
 

vrcsix

Member
Oct 29, 2017
345
It's just not one of Sony's strengths. It's hardly controversial. They could do better if they stopped focusing on the M-rated segment, but that's where their bread and butter is.

Console sales are a poor barometer when we have revenue numbers. Sony's highest grossing IP, Gran Turismo, sits at about $4B which puts it below Halo and Minecraft, and not even in the same ballpark as Pokémon or Mario. Pokémon at $93B is the highest grossing media franchise of all time (think Star Wars and the Marvel Cinematic Universe combined). 69% of that comes from merchandise (not including the trading cards).

PlayStation just doesn't have the multimedia presence, even though it's part of a multimedia conglomerate.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
10,022
From what I’m seeing this is a weirdly vitriolic debate on whether or not there should be merchandise for things people like.
 

jaymzi

Member
Jul 22, 2019
95
I mean GTAV is the highest full priced game of all time and that has like no merchandising.

Sometimes, it just doesn't matter.
 

SMD

Member
Oct 28, 2017
3,190
"Selling games" isn't the greatest indicator of an IP's value. The ability of the IP to push systems and ancillary revenue is. A game that sells 2 million copies to a completely new audience that didn't own your console is more valuable than a game that sells 5 million but doesn't expand the base. Sony consistently puts out extremely high quality titles that attract an extremely diverse audience, thus the value of that IP portfolio. You can get the same third parties on PC or Xbox- but the PS4 sells (and third parties on PS4 sell) because of Sony's exclusives.

The switch will sell well, but can't realistically hit the 120M+ that the PS4 will. The games aren't there.

To put things a different way, Sony's IP being more diverse than Nintendo's attracts a more diverse audience and demonstrates that a certain type of game can be successful on their platform. This in turn enourages third parties to put their games there. Nintendo's IP does not do this- their audience habitually ignores anything that's not made by Nintendo themselves, which is a large part of the reason why third party sales have been completely anemic on every nintendo platform since the SNES.

double edit: to clarify what I mean about "selling games" not being the greatest indicator of an IP's value- the Wii and PS4 have sold "About" the same amount of consoles right now (though the PS4 will continue to sell).

Looking at sales on the Wii, you would think the thing was an incredible sales juggernaut that would never be passed:

1.) Wii Sports- 82 million
2.) Mario Kart Wii- 37 million
3.) Wii Sports resort- 33 million
4.) New Super Mario Bros Wii- 30 million
5.) Wii Play- 28.02 million
6.) Wii Fit- 22 million
7.) Wii Fit Plus- 21 million
8.) Super Smash Brothers Brawl- 13 million
9.) Super Mario Galaxy- 12 million
10.) Wii Party- 9 million

In contrast the highest selling PS4 title is "only" at 19 million, with uncharted 4 at around 15 million at #2. Yet the PS4 will easily outsell the Wii in less time, and is drastically more profitable- so much more profitable that it's not even in the same discussion. The PS4 is likely the most profitable system in history, despite Sony's first party not selling a fraction of a fraction of the games nintendo did on the Wii.

The reason is that the Wii titles were repeatedly selling copies to the same audience. There was no diversity there. Nintendo never expanded that base beyond people who were interested in playing their mascot titles and Wii Sports. The Wii was tracking to outsell the PS2 in unit sales, but when that casual audience lost interest in games like Wii Sports, sales for the system crashed through the floor as they all left en masse.

There also were virtually no third parties successfully selling games on that platform to the extent they were on the PS360, and no titles that generated recurring monthly online subscription revenue similar to PSN or Xbox Live. The "Wii X" IP didn't/couldn't attract either one. By the end of the generation that IP portfolio was nearly worthless. A new Wii Sports or Wii Fit wouldn't attract the interest of anyone right now.

So despite selling less "copies" overall, the PS4 portfolio of first party titles is FAR more valuable than Nintendo's stable of first party titles at the height of their most popular system. It targets and is bought by a more profitable audience, and a more diverse audience.
Your logic absolutely hurts my head. I dunno how you can make all these arguments in light of how the Switch is doing, not to mention that Nintendo's online was free for the first year and with almost no benefits millions still signed up just to play Mario Kart, Splatoon and Smash.
 

Simsamdeo

Member
Jan 19, 2018
520
While technically true, PS4 spiderman is a PS4 title running on Sony's platform- meaning they automatically take 30-40% of the retail cost, plus another chunk of whatever the DLC is. They make way more from that than Disney does via merchandising rights- if that's even applicable. A digital game isn't merchandise per se.
??? What are you talking about? I'm not talking about the game. I'm talking about merchandises -- as in toys, lunchboxes, and all those junks. Spider-Man merchandises earn $1.3 billion a year and this is a figure from before the PS4 game. Disney absolutely earns more from merchandise rights than Sony does from the PS4 game.
 

jrDev

Member
Mar 2, 2018
1,528
Never thought of it before. And your right, though they did release Ratchet and Clank movie and are moving on to launching an Uncharted movie...
I think a lot of it stems from Sony being very diverse and not so focused on one or two single IPs. This comes to our benefit though. They have a really diverse lineup of games that we can enjoy while others mainly focus to push their big IP's (Microsoft is all about Halo, Nintendo is all Mario).

It is sometimes a bit funny though that Sony has the best setup in terms of media production (Sony Music, Sony Pictures), yet you rarely see any of their game IPs turned into something useful there.
What, Nintendo has a TON of diversity, are you being serious or disingenuous?
 

Jimmy Joe

Member
Aug 8, 2019
150
Does Sony own the Uncharted IP?

It would be kind of cool to get an Uncharted cartoon or something. I definitely would have liked one when I was a kid
 

Jimmy Joe

Member
Aug 8, 2019
150
Well I don't know! Who can keep track of who owns what studio? Not ol' Jimmy Joe, I'll tell you that for free

Though come to think of it, Knack would also probably be a real fun cartoon. Main character being a little guy who can get real big? Instant coolness

(I have never played Knack)
 

Femto0

Member
Apr 28, 2018
1,715
They have Fate grand order one of the biggest ip around the world second only to pokemon probably
 

Chaos Legion

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,583
It's amazing that some of y'all are purposely being disingenuous. This doesn't have anything to do with game sales.

This is a problem. It's a problem that even Sony acknowledges. Sony created PlayStation Productions to do what? Tap into its videogame library to produce film and TV series of its IP to expand the appeal of these properties and give Sony Pictures additional content to work with. Sony is aware that they have to do a better job at earning more beyond the sales of a videogame.

Sony lacks IP that has the huge appeal that Nintendo and many other game publishers do. It's not a knock to say that and truthfully it's something that I'm sure they would like to change. If Sony gets a few that blow up, that licensing revenue will boost Sony's earnings which will in turn allow them to spend even more on gaming.

It's not that hard. Sony has few areas of growth for the entire conglomerate. Licensed revenue could be a major one if they are successful. Look at their share price. The market is generally apprehensive about Sony's prospects, explaining their ridiculously low market cap.
 

MultiMoo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,561
Silicon Valley
Well I don't know! Who can keep track of who owns what studio? Not ol' Jimmy Joe, I'll tell you that for free

Though come to think of it, Knack would also probably be a real fun cartoon. Main character being a little guy who can get real big? Instant coolness

(I have never played Knack)
They joined World Wild Studios (Sony's premiere group of devs) after making Crash Bandicoot and such. Here is a nice little documentary from their 30th anniversary 5 years ago:

Also, they have a new division for making shows / movies a bigger part of the PlayStation ethos going forward, so who knows what we'll get!

I'd love a full-on Gravity Rush anime, a Bloodborne series, a live-action WipEout series that goes into the nitty gritty of all the teams as they advance the ships from 2048, and something in the world of Horizon Zero Dawn would be amazing.


They have Fate grand order one of the biggest ip around the world second only to pokemon probably
I've never seen merchandise for this, but have heard of the gamet. Sony's Aniplex company, right?