One Piece |OT4| The way of the Samurai

Oct 25, 2017
2,676
I dunno I don't really feel right about Komurasaki being Hiyori even though in theory it's obvious. Oda never really does something that obvious or if he does there'll be some sort of twist to it, "She was Oden's daughter but she isn't HIyori?!?!?!" I actually wouldn't be surprised she's Ashura Doji's daughter or something similar to that.

On top of that, this would put Kyoshiro at odds here cause it's clear to me he's a rather bad dude and actually is anti-Oden despite being anti-Orochi as well. I feel like he has his own agenda and Komurasaki being allied with him while at the same time being Hiyori? I dunno.

REGARDLESS of how I feel about this, both Komurasaki and Kyoshiro are fucking awesome characters.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,941
One Piece 932:

Disappointed we have to wait another chapter to find out what Oda's planning with Big Mom and the amnesia story. As far as my thoughts on the chapter, overall very good/no complaints despite wanting to see Big Mom and Sanji/Soba Mask. The Fox Mask character being Komurasaki and not just part of the Kabuki gag is a nice touch. Orochi continues to come off as a strong villain this chapter, although his Devil Fruit form looks just as goofy with the heads having his human form's teeth/expression.

After seeing Robin escape from the ninjas with a clone, I'm sticking with my thoughts last chapter that the ninjas aren't strong enough individually to get Straw Hat one on one fights. I wish Oda made Robin and Komurasaki more distinct design wise, as I found myself looking for/at Robin's distinct nose bridge to tell them apart quickly in the smaller panels. I'm looking forward to seeing what Kyoshiro does to handle the chaos going on, but I also won't be surprised to see Komurasaki fix the situation either.

As far as the "Is she or isn't she Momonosuke's sister" discussion, I could see Oda making her a red herring, but I think Oda has done that enough times recently that he will probably just make things straight forward this time to keep readers on their toes.
 
Oct 25, 2017
36,216
As far as the "Is she or isn't she Momonosuke's sister" discussion, I could see Oda making her a red herring, but I think Oda has done that enough times recently that he will probably just make things straight forward this time to keep readers on their toes.
Eh, I'd definitely agree with you if it weren't for the fact that Hiyori is a character that only just got introduced in this arc. If we knew of her existence going into the Wano arc, then that'd be another story. As it is now, just seems weird that Oda would introduce the mystery of her identity and her very existence at the same time, only to make it super obvious by providing us with one single candidate.
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,061
To go into a little bit more detail on the chapter, it's nice to see that Nami, Brook, and Shinobu aren't just waiting around and have already infiltrated the castle and have been in contact with Robin. We haven't seen this much espionage with the crew in a while.

As for Komurasaki, I've seen comments saying that this is proof that she's really a good person. Let me just say, Oda writes so many multi-layered characters for things to be that simple. It could turn out that she has never really slept with anyone and her motives might not be so black and white. Why would she go to such lengths to swindle men out of their money? Why is she involved with Orochi?

Also, it's too obvious if Komurasaki turned out to be Hiyori. In fact, everything is set up almost perfectly for a big twist.
-She's introduced in the same chapter where Momo talks about Hiyori
-She's the daughter of a samurai
-She's brave enough to go against Orochi so blatantly
-It's seemingly confirmed that she is the shamisen player we've seen at the beginning and end of every Wano act.

Just food for thought.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,941
Eh, I'd definitely agree with you if it weren't for the fact that Hiyori is a character that only just got introduced in this arc. If we knew of her existence going into the Wano arc, then that'd be another story. As it is now, just seems weird that Oda would introduce the mystery of her identity and her very existence at the same time, only to make it super obvious by providing us with one single candidate.
That's another problem, Oda should have introduced the "real" Hiyori by now (a Woman who fits Momonosuke's description age wise that is not on most readers' radar). So far there is only Komurasaki. While it's possible Oda could have Komurasaki related to another Samurai of importance to the story in order to continue to build on her character, if he just drops/introduces the "real" Hiyori after Komurasaki is revealed to be a red herring, the reveal won't have any significance to the reader.
 
Oct 26, 2017
11,691
How are so many newcomers in this thread fans of Sanji? Wtf
I always liked his backstory the most when I started readin back in 2003 or so, including all the secondary characters from the Baratié. I actually shed a few tears when I read his goodbye for the first time lol. Robin is a close second though.
 
Oct 25, 2017
36,216
That's another problem, Oda should have introduced the "real" Hiyori by now (a Woman who fits Momonosuke's description age wise that is not on most readers' radar).
Who says he hasn't? :D

While it's possible Oda could have Komurasaki related to another Samurai of importance to the story in order to continue to build on her character, if he just drops/introduces the "real" Hiyori after Komurasaki is revealed to be a red herring, the reveal won't have any significance to the reader.
I agree, if it's some other Wano native, then unless they suddenly pop up and gain a bunch of prominence, it'll be an underwhelming twist.

did anyone else have a terrible time following who was talking in this chapter
Just for one panel, where someone's suddenly calling Komurasaki beautiful.
 

Law

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,795
As for Komurasaki, I've seen comments saying that this is proof that she's really a good person. Let me just say, Oda writes so many multi-layered characters for things to be that simple. It could turn out that she has never really slept with anyone and her motives might not be so black and white. Why would she go to such lengths to swindle men out of their money? Why is she involved with Orochi?
as this manga is aimed at young readers, surely for Oda it is difficult to talk about this kind of topics. I will not have a point of view let's say a little innocent, when talking about issues like sex or why she swindled people, etc... so to me she's not a saint and yes, of course, we're all still wondering why she did what she did.
 

Law

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,795
According to the wiki, this type of manga is intended for boys between the ages of 12 and 18. Oda has never made a direct reference to sex, I may be wrong, the most this manga shown is blood and almost naked women but I think that is acceptable in Japan for young people.
 
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Oct 25, 2017
23,158
i think kids in their teens are fine following a complicated story with a lot of information as long as its dispensed in a sensical way. Though i feel like they miss out on a lot of the nuance and subtlety that authors try to inject their stories with.
 

Abu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,258
Breh, I’m 24 and even I sometimes have difficulties keeping up with Obe Peace.

Stfu Sanjo. I know what you’re gonna say so🖕🏽
 
Oct 26, 2017
13,061
as this manga is aimed at young readers, surely for Oda it is difficult to talk about this kind of topics. I will not have a point of view let's say a little innocent, when talking about issues like sex or why she swindled people, etc... so to me she's not a saint and yes, of course, we're all still wondering why she did what she did.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I sometimes assume that more successful, established mangaka like Oda and Togashi might get a little more leeway in Jump.
 
Oct 25, 2017
36,216
While Kyoshiro is interesting and all, I dunno why people think he wants to usurp the Shogun. Or more accurately, that he could randomly kill him, take his place, and that'd be that.
 
Oct 25, 2017
36,216
So with Orochi commenting on the Scabbards' strength, as well as the fact that Kinemon is their leader, it's clear that Momo and Hiyori aren't a part of that group. So the Scabbards seems to be:

- Kinemon
- Raizo
- Kanjuro
- Shutenmaru (Ashura Doji)
- Denjiro (Witching Hour Boy?)
- Kawamatsu (Kamazou the Manslayer?)
- Nekomamushi
- Inuarashi
- Kiku

It's left to be seen if the mystery retainer seen in 920 is Denjiro, Kawamatsu, or someone else entirely.

Same with learning who exactly Hitetsu is waiting for, though at the very least it seems that Hitetsu is not one of the Scabbards.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,613
You get more leeway but there are certain things you can't get away with
Yep.
For certain things the reader has to put together there self or think what it could mean.
Which is why when we saw the slave house and the sort stuff the CD can do it was WTF when you really think about it.
 
Nov 18, 2017
583
1. Considering she was injured and nearly captured by Kaido I think Kiku would tell Momonosuke and Kinemon if Hiyori was safe and around she wouldn't keep this information.
2. Momo would also recognize his sister blood relations thing he saw Tama and he knew she wasn't his sister.
3. Again if Momo doesn't recognize or see anything of his sister in Tama then the retainers wouldn't either
4. Because she is a follower of the clan just like Tenguyama, she learned about the shit through him
5. So? Tama is like Luffy and see sees Momo as a kid why address him as Lord, hell Mom tries to get her to but when she doesn't get it he drops it.
6. Who doesn't seem like it considering he would have reacted to Inurashi or the minks returning Tama knowing it be time along with seeing Momo since Tama is with him but nothing.
7. So what everyone assumed Hiyori was Tama for a bit before Komurasaki came in....
8. We saw nothing of that dynamic so who cares? Hell having this age gap and the two growing up and seeing different sides of Wano could be interesting. Hell imagine if Komurasaki feels abandoned by the others.
9. It makes no sense to send them so many years into the future yet only send one group into the future just to meet Ace..... Hell she may not have had the strength or had separate plans for Hiyori considering she was younger then Momo was.
10. So are we gonna be seeing Marco in Wano?

Its dumb at this point to think its Tama, its not Tama.
Look, I think it's pretty obvious that the most likely candidate to be Hiyori is, Komurasaki. All of us are in agreement with that. However, a good portion of us think it's just way too obvious. Oda isn't even trying to hide it. From the age that was spelled out by Momo. To the fact that she's the daughter of a samurai. All of it points to Komurasaki.

Every other candidate has to come from a hunch. The Komurasaki bit could be a red herring. Just like I think the entire ending to chapter 928 could be a red herring. The one who brings up the sister bit is Tama. The honorifics thing is brought up by Momo, who also brings up with certainty the age of his sister. Hell, maybe you're right about the idea that he just decided to not make it a big deal, but then why bring it up in the first place? Tama brings up the idea of Momo meeting his sister as being heartwarming (obviously). All of this could be a red herring.

You, like me, have to make assumptions. To say it's dumb is all based on the idea that Oda is being straightforward. The idea isn't dumb to me just like everyone believing Oda is being too obvious isn't too dumb.

You seem really sure of yourself though for whatever reason. Why? I don't know. It's Oda and he always keeps us guessing.

So with Orochi commenting on the Scabbards' strength, as well as the fact that Kinemon is their leader, it's clear that Momo and Hiyori aren't a part of that group. So the Scabbards seems to be:

- Kinemon
- Raizo
- Kanjuro
- Shutenmaru (Ashura Doji)
- Denjiro (Witching Hour Boy?)
- Kawamatsu (Kamazou the Manslayer?)
- Nekomamushi
- Inuarashi
- Kiku

It's left to be seen if the mystery retainer seen in 920 is Denjiro, Kawamatsu, or someone else entirely.

Same with learning who exactly Hitetsu is waiting for, though at the very least it seems that Hitetsu is not one of the Scabbards.
This is confusing to me too. I also found it interesting that Komurasaki is from the same area as Kyoushiro and that Kyoushiro was implied to have raised her. Those 9 people are certainly 9 connected to Oden's side. We know that 1 retainer stayed with Hiyori. If it's Komurasaki as Hiyori, she must have one of the 9 scabbards as a guardian and the person that fits that description the most is Kyoushiro as of now. Then there is Hitetsu.

??
 
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Oct 27, 2017
343
Hiyori is Komurasaki. What's wrong with obvious? We're here to fight Kaido not be on the edge of our seats on who Hiyori really is.
If Komurasaki is not Hiyori, that might be the dumbest "twist" I've ever seen.
Komurasaki never being sent to the future, growing up and finally seeing her brother after twenty years will be a nice resolution for her character. Tama beeing Hiyori wouldn't be as hard hitting in the feels department
 
Oct 25, 2017
36,216
Hiyori is Komurasaki. What's wrong with obvious? We're here to fight Kaido not be on the edge of our seats on who Hiyori really is.
You'd have a better point if Hiyori wasn't a character that we suddenly only knew existed this arc, when we could've easily learned of her back in Zou when we were told of what happened to Momo's parents. Or if her face wasn't covered, thereby begging the question of what she looks like, which is what led people to speculate it being Tama initially.

And no one said anything about being on "the edge of our seats", her character is just one of many mysteries in this arc people are trying to figure out.

The idea behind Komurasaki being Hiyori is more than fine on its own and would obviously further add to her character. But at the same time, it doesn't really merit Oda being coy about Hiyori's identity, only to then repeatedly and blatantly shove us in Komurasaki's direction, especially when she's the only Wano suspect to work with right now. It's reminiscent of how back in Zou, Oda kept hammering over and over how disastrous it would be for the Minks to meet the samurai, only for that to get turned on its head. Given how he aims to be unpredictable (more so than usual) this arc, some healthy skepticism never hurt anyone. It's fun to speculate.

If Komurasaki is not Hiyori, that might be the dumbest "twist" I've ever seen.
How can you know that its a dumb twist if you haven't seen the execution....

Not even sure why you put it in quotes when it would by definition would be a twist, seeing as how the majority of the fandom is convinced she's Hiyori.

I also found it interesting that Komurasaki is from the same area as Kyoushiro and that Kyoushiro was implied to have raised her.
The raising her part seems more in regards to her profession as a prostitute. They're dehumanizing her, hence Kyoshiro's response. Seeing as how he is a Yakuza boss, dude probably owns a brothel or whatever.

If it's Komurasaki as Hiyori, she must have one of the 9 scabbards as a guardian and the person that fits that description the most is Kyoushiro as of now.
Frankly, I never really got why people suspect that he's a former retainer, especially after this chapter. If he used to be one of Oden's retainers, none of his dialogue hints at it. And the idea that Orochi's paranoid ass would allow him to work for him (in such a high position), or worse, be completely unaware that he used to be a retainer, seems very unrealistic. Even one of the background characters acknowledged that they all died, essentially meaning they don't know where any of the retainers are. This setting would even be the perfect opportunity to reveal that Kyoshiro used to be one of them, yet nothing like that occurred.
 
Nov 18, 2017
583
Frankly, I never really got why people suspect that he's a former retainer, especially after this chapter. If he used to be one of Oden's retainers, none of his dialogue hints at it. And the idea that Orochi's paranoid ass would allow him to work for him (in such a high position), or worse, be completely unaware that he used to be a retainer, seems very unrealistic. Even one of the background characters acknowledged that they all died, essentially meaning they don't know where any of the retainers are. This setting would even be the perfect opportunity to reveal that Kyoshiro used to be one of them, yet nothing like that occurred.
Yeah I don't think it is him either. I'm just speculating who fits that description the most at this point in time, provided that Hiyori is in fact Komurasaki. For example, if it's Tama, the character that fits the most as the guardian is Hitetsu. The other wild card is Grandpa Hyo. Or it could be the other strongest samurai. The only thing we know is that it's not Kiku, Kinemon, Raizo, Kanjuro, Inuarashi, and Nekomamushi.
 

Law

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,795
Oh look, a cool moment involving 2 one piece women. Which men will save them?

Or we’ll finally get some cool Robin action?
lol
While Kyoshiro is interesting and all, I dunno why people think he wants to usurp the Shogun. Or more accurately, that he could randomly kill him, take his place, and that'd be that.
I think it's because he seems to be a bit ambitious, but yes, you're right Kyoshiro can't simply remove Orochi from that position unless he has Kaido's Consent and at the moment there's nothing to indicate such a thing.
Same with learning who exactly Hitetsu is waiting for, though at the very least it seems that Hitetsu is not one of the Scabbards.
I was thinking about this, for a moment I thought he was referring to Zoro or Law, but when he says he is waiting for someone I wonder if there is already an agreement with that person to meet or is it like a prophecy? because if it is the first option I do not think it applies to Zoro and Law, at the same time I find it very strange that there is a prophecy or something like that. Maybe it's like "King Arthur and the Excalibur" but with cursed Katanas.
But who do you think it is? Lotus.
_________________
The Great Saiyaman = The Great Soba Mask
 
Oct 25, 2017
23,158
I wouldn't say what he did to Ace makes him a villain any more so than any other law enforcement officer killing a dangerous criminal does, but what he did at Ohara 100% makes him a villain in my eyes....fuck him for both still though
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,882
This arc feels so genuinely different from other arcs. There's times where it feels like I'm reading an entirely new manga. Oda's clearly drawing on a lot of film and literature about the period, but it's giving everything a different cadence.

Stuff like skipping ahead in time, the way the supporting cast is integrated into the plotline, etc. It's all great. I'm enjoying this arc - it's super refreshing so far.