One Piece |OT5| You can get through anything as long as you just SMILE

Should betting be allowed?

  • Yes

    Votes: 18 34.0%
  • No

    Votes: 1 1.9%
  • Yes, but no Rebecca avatars

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • No, and never talk to me or my son again

    Votes: 2 3.8%
  • I don't even know what's going on here

    Votes: 9 17.0%
  • Yes

    Votes: 7 13.2%
  • Betting is the devil

    Votes: 13 24.5%

  • Total voters
    53
  • Poll closed .

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,285
As far as exclusives go:

Sword's legendary is better, but I don't use them in my party so I don't care.

Sirfetch'd is cool, but the typing guarantees I'd never use it (Needed to be part Flying), whereas it's a very real possibility that I could see myself using Galarian Rapidash.

Exclusive gym leaders? Irrelevant.

Other known exclusives? I don't have any current interest in really using any of them, but I'd sooner use Tyranitar than Hydreigon again.

In conclusion:

Shield. Stays. Winning.
 
Oct 26, 2017
20,292
One Piece Volume 94 sold 1,182,323 copies in 3 days.

To compare:
Vol. 93 sold 1,378,777 in 4 days
Vol. 92 sold 1,386,360 in 7 days
Vol. 91 sold 1,514,459 in 6 days
Vol. 90 sold 1,441,771 in 6 days
Vol. 89 sold 1,502,120 in 7 days
Vol. 88 sold 1,301,484 in 3 days

And:
Vol. 55 sold 1,121,685 in 3 days
Vol. 56 sold 1,363,868 in 3 days

Vol. 94's sales prove that the drop is still ongoing, though not as harsh as vol. 92 made it seem. But still, One Piece is slowly going back to a pre-boost sales level: it sells around 1.9M in four weeks when pre-boost OP did 1.5M/1.6M in that time frame. This also means that sales are less front-loaded than they used to.
Starting with vol. 57 onwards, OP volumes have always sold over 2.1M in 4 weeks, up until vol. 88 which was the first to fail to reach that threshold. At its peak, vol. 66, OP reached 2.9M in four weeks.
One Piece has basically lost 1M physical manga readers in 7 years. Just like many other series, this is linked to people going digital for their manga purchases, especially since 2016.
It's impossible to know how many of those made the jump to digital though

Kimetsu sold 1,114,530 volumes this week, including 746,028 backlog sales. One Piece sold 1,252,449 volumes this week.
This means that:
OP has sold ~9.2M volumes as of October 6th
Kimetsu has sold 8,136,912 as of October 6th (Credits to MangAniMy for the exact number)
Kingdom is now officially 3rd.
There are 6 weeks left before the end of the Oricon year.
Interesting that vol. 91, which had all the Straw Hats on the cover, sold the most within a similar timeframe.
Are you counting One Piece's backlog for the year so far? Cuz that's 90 volumes that will make a significant difference.
 

edo_kid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,717
Kingdom is now the 3rd/4th best selling manga in terms of sales per volume (since 2018, before, Haikyuu, Tokyo Ghoul and One Punch Man were in front of it). Only One Piece and Attack on Titan sell more than it now (and HxH, probably, it's hard to say as HxH has been declining but we can't know how much since there aren't any volume being released...).
Imagine if the anime was not completely garbage, how higher it could have gotten. Yaiba got a gigantic boost from its amazing adaptation.
 

Rouk'

Member
Jan 10, 2018
895
France
Interesting that vol. 91, which had all the Straw Hats on the cover, sold the most within a similar timeframe.
Are you counting One Piece's backlog for the year so far? Cuz that's 90 volumes that will make a significant difference.
The most likely reason for 91 to be the best selling volume is that it was the first of the Wano arc which had been hyped up for years.
And yes, the backlogs are included. Without them, the fours volumes released this year would only make 7.8M volume sold. So that's a backlog of 1.4M volumes (for now).
To compare, in 2018, the backlog at the end of the year accounted for 1.4M volumes (17.2% of total, but this was a 3-volume year, so the backlog are proportionally bigger). In 2017 the backlog was 1.53M (13.3%, 4 volumes in the year) and 1.8M for 2016 (14.7%). 2015 had a backlog of 2.1M (15.0%), but that was before the explosion of digital manga sales
Both 2016 and 2019 are years with a movie (Gold and Stampede) and those ussually help the backlog sales compared to movie-less years.

Imagine if the anime was not completely garbage, how higher it could have gotten. Yaiba got a gigantic boost from its amazing adaptation.
Such is the fate of great seinen. Either you sell well but don't get a quality anime (Berserk, Vagabond, Kingdom, Tokyo Ghoul) or you get an awesome anime that does not boost your manga sales in the slightest (Vinland Saga)
NB: I haven't read Tokyo Ghoul, so I don't really know if it's a "great seinen"
 

Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,192
Such is the fate of great seinen. Either you sell well but don't get a quality anime (Berserk, Vagabond, Kingdom, Tokyo Ghoul) or you get an awesome anime that does not boost your manga sales in the slightest (Vinland Saga)
NB: I haven't read Tokyo Ghoul, so I don't really know if it's a "great seinen"
Tokyo Ghoul is good. I don't know if it's great but it's definitely very solid. Tokyo Ghoul:re...well it starts off pretty good, and remains pretty good for a while, but then it slowly gets very confusing a bit bloated. I wouldn't say it's bad, but I dont think it finishes nearly as strong as Tokyo Ghoul part 1.

the anime adaptation is definitely shit all around though.
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,505
Djinn is right Usopp x Robin FTW
One Piece Volume 94 sold 1,182,323 copies in 3 days.

To compare:
Vol. 93 sold 1,378,777 in 4 days
Vol. 92 sold 1,386,360 in 7 days
Vol. 91 sold 1,514,459 in 6 days
Vol. 90 sold 1,441,771 in 6 days
Vol. 89 sold 1,502,120 in 7 days
Vol. 88 sold 1,301,484 in 3 days

And:
Vol. 55 sold 1,121,685 in 3 days
Vol. 56 sold 1,363,868 in 3 days

Vol. 94's sales prove that the drop is still ongoing, though not as harsh as vol. 92 made it seem. But still, One Piece is slowly going back to a pre-boost sales level: it sells around 1.9M in four weeks when pre-boost OP did 1.5M/1.6M in that time frame. This also means that sales are less front-loaded than they used to.
Starting with vol. 57 onwards, OP volumes have always sold over 2.1M in 4 weeks, up until vol. 88 which was the first to fail to reach that threshold. At its peak, vol. 66, OP reached 2.9M in four weeks.
One Piece has basically lost 1M physical manga readers in 7 years. Just like many other series, this is linked to people going digital for their manga purchases, especially since 2016.
It's impossible to know how many of those made the jump to digital though

Kimetsu sold 1,114,530 volumes this week, including 746,028 backlog sales. One Piece sold 1,252,449 volumes this week.
This means that:
OP has sold ~9.2M volumes as of October 6th
Kimetsu has sold 8,136,912 as of October 6th (Credits to MangAniMy for the exact number)
Kingdom is now officially 3rd.
There are 6 weeks left before the end of the Oricon year.
I’m actually about to place myself on team Yaiba’s camp. Been doing some light reading of the Yaiba thread on era and I’ve noticed that the manga is facing shortages in Japan at the moment. So once stock is back to normal. I slightly expect it to eek out One Piece
 

Rouk'

Member
Jan 10, 2018
895
France
I’m actually about to place myself on team Yaiba’s camp. Been doing some light reading of the Yaiba thread on era and I’ve noticed that the manga is facing shortages in Japan at the moment. So once stock is back to normal. I slightly expect it to eek out One Piece
Unless...
Crackpot Theory:
Shueisha is afraid Kimetsu might actually outsell One Piece in 2019.
They don't want it to because the title of "best selling manga for the XXth consecutive year" is good for the One Piece brand, and so they undershipped Kimetsu.
Of course one might think this is weird, as a sale for Kimetsu is a sale for Shueisha, but because Kimetsu is ending soon, it's not worth damaging the OP brand for it
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,505
Djinn is right Usopp x Robin FTW
Haha I remember reading that yesterday. It’s an interesting galaxy brain take if I do say so. And if it faces shortages we’ll into December then I’d actually put it as true.

but I don’t think the people at shueisha in charge of the Yaiba property care about about keeping the sanctity of a sales streak going for a different property not would the higher ups. Cause at the end of the day. Money talks
 

Cantaim

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,505
Djinn is right Usopp x Robin FTW
Trashle is more like it


oh and before I forget. I’m gonna try and put up the next One Piece thread bet thing tonight. It’ll be a prediction/bet for who the traitor in Wano is! There will be two categories #TeamTraitor #TeamNoTraitor and naturally I’ll be asking for insight as to who you think the traitor is if you think there is one. As well as what you think is happening if there is no traitor.

avatar penalties will be easy. An avatar of Orochi if there is no traitor and an avatar of the traitor if there is one.

oh and if someone wants to make the official bet post before me feel free too!
 
OP
OP
Morlas

Morlas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
34,502
i don't see Yaiba passing one piece if it's over a million down and only 6 weeks left
 

Kreed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,765
Haven't watched this yet, but 10000x this

In reference to the title of the video, the video mostly discusses the One Piece fan base making "forced parallels" and the difference between "strong parallels" such as Luffy and Roger, and Blackbeard and Rocks works vs the community trying to force Smoker and Koby to be "Luffy's Garp". The video does go into why Luffy doesn't necessarily need a Garp in regards to Garp's closest parallel being Luffy in addition to there being no "Hero of the Marines" since Akainu is the strongest Marine and is a villain, but more time is spent on why Smoker and Koby just don't fit the bill.
 

Rouk'

Member
Jan 10, 2018
895
France
I would read a manga about koby in high school

None of this koby knockoff bs tho
That was kind of what we got with One Piece Academy

i don't see Yaiba passing one piece if it's over a million down and only 6 weeks left
August sales (4 weeks):
Kimetsu: 1,228,495
One Piece: 340,970

September sales (4 weeks):
Kimetsu: 1,966,013
One Piece: no exact numbers, as it was below the top 10 for every week of the month, but when you combine the n°10 sales of each week, you get : 300,747 (a more realistic estimation would be 250k).

During those 8 weeks, Kimetsu sold at least 2,552,791 volumes more than OP. Because OP just released a volume, the difference shouldn't be that big for the rest of the year, especially since the Kimetsu anime has ended, but still "over a million down" does not seem to mean much for Kimetsu.
 

cubotauro

Member
Aug 28, 2019
474
Lets's be honest, most of the discussion regarding Luffy not having a marine equal similar to what Garp was to Roger, is because most people just don't picture Coby ever getting to that level of strenght.

I'm actually completely on the side of Coby in that discussion, mainly because of his goals and also because it would be really fitting for the 2 characters we see at the very beggining of the manga to reach their respective dreams. He also has made some massive gains from the little we've seen from him post-timeskip compared to how he was before.
 

Kreed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,765
Note that the video Lotus posted in regards to "Luffy's Garp" is in terms of Luffy vs Blackbeard being in parallel to Roger vs Rocks, with Roger and Garp teaming up against Rocks. So the discussion is who would join Luffy to fight Blackbeard and be Luffy's Garp, which is another reason Koby and Smoker are being "disqualified". The video does discuss Koby possibly becoming Admiral strength by the end of the series, just not by the fight with Blackbeard.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,285
In reference to the title of the video, the video mostly discusses the One Piece fan base making "forced parallels" and the difference between "strong parallels" such as Luffy and Roger, and Blackbeard and Rocks works vs the community trying to force Smoker and Koby to be "Luffy's Garp". The video does go into why Luffy doesn't necessarily need a Garp in regards to Garp's closest parallel being Luffy in addition to there being no "Hero of the Marines" since Akainu is the strongest Marine and is a villain, but more time is spent on why Smoker and Koby just don't fit the bill.
Pretty much. I like the point that he made regarding Blackbeard and Xebec, where it's a parallel people are making that you don't really have to fight against, because you can look at the actual story and see that it'd make a lot of sense, even without obvious supplementary facts like Blackbeard's ship sharing the same name as the Rocks captain.

Lets's be honest, most of the discussion regarding Luffy not having a marine equal similar to what Garp was to Roger, is because most people just don't picture Coby ever getting to that level of strenght.

I'm actually completely on the side of Coby in that discussion, mainly because of his goals and also because it would be really fitting for the 2 characters we see at the very beggining of the manga to reach their respective dreams. He also has made some massive gains from the little we've seen from him post-timeskip compared to how he was before.
People don't picture it for good reason. We're 950+ chapters in, and at no point has Koby ever actually been presented that way. Not at the beginning, when Luffy was obviously vastly stronger than Koby. Not at Marineford where Luffy was still vastly stronger than Koby. And not now, when between Gear 4/Future Sight/Improved Armanent Haki, there is no reason to stop viewing Luffy as being vastly stronger than Koby.

No one can deny with a straight face Koby's exponential growth, but Luffy's in comparison utterly dwarfs that. And that's just Luffy. When remembering that the argument is that he's allegedly supposed to be Luffy's "Garp", it becomes even more ridiculous to take seriously given how legendary Garp is, especially now that we know why exactly he's hailed as the "Hero of the Marines". Whether you want to consider his on-screen or off-screen feats, neither make a convincing enough case. As I've said before, I'm not even really convinced that he's even stronger than Luffy at Marineford, yet somehow people think he'll beat Hancock on his own solely because of their hardcore belief in making Koby fit a parallel that was never been meant for him.

And that's just the strength aspect of it, which is not the only reason push back against the idea of Koby being Luffy's "Garp". Narratively speaking, the only character that has ever come anywhere close to feeling like Luffy's "Garp" is Smoker. From having teamed up on several occasions (could even include Stampede in this I guess, I haven't watched the movie though), to Smoker having a begrudging respect for Luffy, has no issue following his instinct over his superiors, etc., it ticks all the boxes. The main strike against him nowadays is the huge gap in strength (The only reason people started switching to Koby to begin with, even though it doesn't work for him either), as well as Smoker simply not feeling as important as he once was, especially once Fujitora entered the story. But at least I could see why people (including myself) had hopes for Smoker once upon a time. Even if we want to say that strength is not the end-be-all, it certainly helps out the case for Smoker far more than it ever would for Koby. Because Koby in comparison since the beginning of the story has been a borderline fanboy of Luffy's, a character that we periodically check in on along with all the other numerous characters of the OP world. His biggest role so far since having become a Marine is buying a few seconds of time in the Marineford War for Shanks to come and stop it. He has nothing like what Smoker got in both Alabasta and Punk Hazard.

So that's why people such as Mr. Morj and myself see it as being forced. The logic is used that because Roger had Garps, then surely Luffy, who shares several parallels with Roger, must need his own equivalent for that as well. But despite it clearly not fitting neatly for either character (even less so for Koby), many have long since already decided that this parallel must happen one way or another, and as such try to force it into existence despite the actual narrative doing little to support it. It's just assumed that one way or another, things will eventually fall into place and Koby will be the new "Garp".

Luffy has a lot of parallels with Roger. But having his own "Garp" is not one of them. The only thing we can really expect with some semi-certainty out of Koby is that presuming that the Marines get reformed, he'll be one of the leading Marines that will help reform it for the better. Same for Smoker as well.
 
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Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,192
I love SDS. It's awful.
i’ll finish 7DS for the same reason I finished fairy tail

I started it

I actually do like Escanor tho
Pretty much. I like the point that he made regarding Blackbeard and Xebec, where it's a parallel people are making that you don't really have to fight against, because you can look at the actual story and see that it'd make a lot of sense, even without obvious supplementary facts like Blackbeard's ship sharing the same name as the Rocks captain.



People don't picture it for good reason. We're 950+ chapters in, and at no point has Koby ever actually been presented that way. Not at the beginning, when Luffy was obviously vastly stronger than Koby. Not at Marineford where Luffy was still vastly stronger than Koby. And not now, when between Gear 4/Future Sight/Improved Armanent Haki, there is no reason to stop viewing Luffy as being vastly stronger than Koby.

No one can deny with a straight face Koby's exponential growth, but Luffy's in comparison utterly dwarfs that. And that's just Luffy. When remembering that the argument is that he's allegedly supposed to be Luffy's "Garp", it becomes even more ridiculous to take seriously given how legendary Garp is, especially now that we know why exactly he's hailed as the "Hero of the Marines". Whether you want to just his on-screen or off-screen feats, neither make a convincing enough case. As I've said before, I'm not even really convinced that he's even stronger than Luffy at Marineford, yet somehow people think he'll beat Hancock on his own solely because of their hardcore belief in making Koby fit a parallel that was never been meant for him.

And that's just the strength aspect of it, which is not the only reason push back against the idea of Koby being Luffy's "Garp". Narratively speaking, the only character that has ever come anywhere close to feeling like Luffy's "Garp" is Smoker. From having teamed up on several occasions (could even include Stampede in this I guess, I haven't watched the movie though), to Smoker having a begrudging respect for Luffy, has no issue following his instinct over his superiors, etc., it ticks all the boxes. The main strike against him nowadays is the huge gap in strength (The only reason people started switching to Koby to begin with, even though it doesn't work for him either), as well as Smoker simply not feeling as important as he once was, especially once Fujitora entered the story. But at least I could see where people why had hopes for Smoker once upon a time. And if we want to say that strength is not the end-be-all, it certainly helps out the case for Smoker far more than it ever would for Koby. Because Koby in comparison since the beginning of the story has been a borderline fanboy of Luffy's, a character that we periodically check in on along with all the other numerous characters of the OP world. His biggest role so far since having become a Marine is buying a few seconds of time in the Marineford War for Shanks to come and stop it. He has nothing like what Smoker got in both Alabasta and Punk Hazard.

So that's why people such as Mr. Morj and myself see it as being forced. The logic is used that because Roger had Garps, then surely Luffy, who shares several parallels with Roger, must need his own equivalent for that as well. But despite it clearly not fitting neatly for either character (even less so for Koby), many have long since already decided that this parallel must happen one way or another, and as such try to force it into existence despite the actual narrative doing little to support it. It's just assumed that one way or not, things will eventually fall into place and Koby will be the new "Garp".

Luffy has a lot of parallels with Roger. But having his own "Garp" is not one of them. The only thing we can really expect with some semi-certainty out of Koby is that presuming that the Marines get reformed, he'll be one of the leading Marines that will help reform it for the better. Same for Smoker as well.
this is why coby needs his own manga. So he can get those shonen power ups and get to luffy’s level
i agree with you
 

cubotauro

Member
Aug 28, 2019
474
Pretty much. I like the point that he made regarding Blackbeard and Xebec, where it's a parallel people are making that you don't really have to fight against, because you can look at the actual story and see that it'd make a lot of sense, even without obvious supplementary facts like Blackbeard's ship sharing the same name as the Rocks captain.



People don't picture it for good reason. We're 950+ chapters in, and at no point has Koby ever actually been presented that way. Not at the beginning, when Luffy was obviously vastly stronger than Koby. Not at Marineford where Luffy was still vastly stronger than Koby. And not now, when between Gear 4/Future Sight/Improved Armanent Haki, there is no reason to stop viewing Luffy as being vastly stronger than Koby.

No one can deny with a straight face Koby's exponential growth, but Luffy's in comparison utterly dwarfs that. And that's just Luffy. When remembering that the argument is that he's allegedly supposed to be Luffy's "Garp", it becomes even more ridiculous to take seriously given how legendary Garp is, especially now that we know why exactly he's hailed as the "Hero of the Marines". Whether you want to just his on-screen or off-screen feats, neither make a convincing enough case. As I've said before, I'm not even really convinced that he's even stronger than Luffy at Marineford, yet somehow people think he'll beat Hancock on his own solely because of their hardcore belief in making Koby fit a parallel that was never been meant for him.

And that's just the strength aspect of it, which is not the only reason push back against the idea of Koby being Luffy's "Garp". Narratively speaking, the only character that has ever come anywhere close to feeling like Luffy's "Garp" is Smoker. From having teamed up on several occasions (could even include Stampede in this I guess, I haven't watched the movie though), to Smoker having a begrudging respect for Luffy, has no issue following his instinct over his superiors, etc., it ticks all the boxes. The main strike against him nowadays is the huge gap in strength (The only reason people started switching to Koby to begin with, even though it doesn't work for him either), as well as Smoker simply not feeling as important as he once was, especially once Fujitora entered the story. But at least I could see where people why had hopes for Smoker once upon a time. And if we want to say that strength is not the end-be-all, it certainly helps out the case for Smoker far more than it ever would for Koby. Because Koby in comparison since the beginning of the story has been a borderline fanboy of Luffy's, a character that we periodically check in on along with all the other numerous characters of the OP world. His biggest role so far since having become a Marine is buying a few seconds of time in the Marineford War for Shanks to come and stop it. He has nothing like what Smoker got in both Alabasta and Punk Hazard.

So that's why people such as Mr. Morj and myself see it as being forced. The logic is used that because Roger had Garps, then surely Luffy, who shares several parallels with Roger, must need his own equivalent for that as well. But despite it clearly not fitting neatly for either character (even less so for Koby), many have long since already decided that this parallel must happen one way or another, and as such try to force it into existence despite the actual narrative doing little to support it. It's just assumed that one way or not, things will eventually fall into place and Koby will be the new "Garp".

Luffy has a lot of parallels with Roger. But having his own "Garp" is not one of them. The only thing we can really expect with some semi-certainty out of Koby is that presuming that the Marines get reformed, he'll be one of the leading Marines that will help reform it for the better. Same for Smoker as well.
Like I said, those arguments all amount to basically saying that Coby is a weakling compared to Luffy based on what we've seen, we haven't even seen post-timeskip Coby get serious in any way, so I'm simply not going to claim that Luffy would beat him without any effort or something.

My point is, that when it comes to the perception of a character strenght and importance in One Piece, especially regarding the fanbase, things can completely change over a short period of time. I mean look at Garp, a big portion the fanbase never gave him a lot of credit until recently, now you'd have to be delussional to think he wouldn't have destroyed Akainu back in Marineford if he had the chance. Same thing applies to Shanks and Mihawk which are definetly the most overhyped characters in the series in my opinion, people got a lot more perspective of their supposed strenght once they saw the other Yonkous bountys. The revoultionary army commanders are another example considering how a lot of people still see them as scrubs right now, and that definetly shouldn't be the case.

So in conclussion, I'm not gonna call a potential Coby/Garp parallel forced in any way, especially considering that Coby was specifically trained by him, stood bravely in front of Akainu, was saved by Shanks who also praised him for what he did and said that this new age definetly needs more people like him, and finally there's still A LOT of potential story developments left in this manga.
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,285
Like I said, those arguments all amount to basically saying that Coby is a weakling compared to Luffy based on what we've seen, we haven't even seen post-timeskip Coby get serious in any way, so I'm simply not going to claim that Luffy would beat him without any effort or something.
I mean that's my point. You don't actually have anything to point to that would remotely suggest that Koby is anywhere near his level. His most noteworthy feat is the Rocky Port incident, the details of which we know almost nothing about. Really, the only thing people that firmly believe in this parallel can do is make the assumption that he'll somehow get there one day. So with that being said, if there's nothing in the manga to support it, if the argument essentially amounts to anything is possible, then I can't do anything with that.

My point is, that when it comes to the perception of a character strenght and importance in One Piece, especially regarding the fanbase, things can completely change over a short period of time. I mean look at Garp, a big portion the fanbase never gave him a lot of credit until recently, now you'd have to be delussional to think he wouldn't have destroyed Akainu back in Marineford if he had the chance.
While it's true that the fandom has often underrated Garp, the actual manga tells a different story. In his first proper appearance, dude's chucking out massive canonballs like it's nothing. He is a character that is literally "Admiral level", just without the actual title, only rejecting it because he just didn't feel like becoming one, which we learned long before Ch. 957. Or him easily dealing with Chinjao and Shiki back in the day. And so on. At the end of the day, some of the fandom may have underestimated him, but the text itself doesn't lie. Hell, even in the context of people not fully grasping Garp's strength, it's merely only in reference to him having gotten older, and mainly wondering whether or not he's currently stronger than Akainu. That's still a good position to be. Garp as a character has multiple references that repeatedly told you how truly amazing he was, its just that people found one way or another to downplay some of them. Koby in comparison doesn't have anything like that, so you can't get upset at portions of the fandom not thinking that highly of him, because well, why would we?

Same thing applies to Shanks and Mihawk which are definetly the most overhyped characters in the series in my opinion, people got a lot more perspective of their supposed strenght once they saw the other Yonkous bountys.
Even though I agree, these are both characters that have both very clearly proven their strength. Even Shanks, despite his lack of on-screen action, still has a 4 billion bounty that lets you know that the gap between him and the other Yonkos isn't that large. Though frankly, the fandom figuring out where exactly top tiers fit in strength-wise is a much different story than continuing to find Koby's progression believable.

The revoultionary army commanders are another example considering how a lot of people still see them as scrubs right now, and that definetly shouldn't be the case.
That's because those people lack reading comprehension skills of what 904 was about lol

So in conclussion, I'm not gonna call a potential Coby/Garp parallel forced in any way, especially considering that Coby was specifically trained by him, stood bravely in front of Akainu, was saved by Shanks who also praised him for what he did and said that this new age definetly needs more people like him, and finally there's still A LOT of potential story developments left in this manga.
All this really tells us is that Koby is a good guy, which we already knew.

Both narratively and strength-wise, Koby has done nothing to deserve the label of being the next "Garp". Nor is his relationship with Luffy at all reminiscent of what we've seen of Roger and Garp's relationship, something that we could at least say for Smoker. And that's what really gets me, that despite the main argument being that Koby may be stronger than people think, it doesn't actually solve the real issue, which is that him and Luffy absolutely do not have a Roger/Garp dynamic. Ch. 903 is even a recent example that reinforced what I'm talking about.
 

Kreed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,765
The other problem I have with this "Luffy's Garp" discussion is I don't see the Blackbeard crew becoming so much stronger than the Straw Hats that Luffy would need help anyway, at least not in a one on one fight with Blackbeard. With the Rocks crew, a Garp and Roger team up made sense with the "monsters" in it, even if they were all younger/not as strong. Garp and Roger were probably fighting the future captains/Emperors off plus Rocks. Whereas with the Straw Hats and the Blackbeard pirates, both current main crews have potential one on one match ups ready to go (Luffy vs Blackbeard, Zoro vs Shiryu, Catarina vs Nami, etc...).
 

cubotauro

Member
Aug 28, 2019
474
I mean that's my point. You don't actually have anything to point to that would remotely suggest that Koby is anywhere near his level. His most noteworthy feat is the Rocky Port incident, the details of which we know almost nothing about. Really, the only thing people that firmly believe in this parallel can do is make the assumption that he'll somehow get there one day. So with that being said, if there's nothing in the manga to support it, if the argument essentially amounts to anything is possible, then I can't do anything with that.



While it's true that the fandom has often underrated Garp, the actual manga tells a different story. In his first proper appearance, dude's chucking out massive canonballs like it's nothing. He is a character that is literally "Admiral level", just without the actual title, only rejecting it because he just didn't feel like becoming one, which we learned long before Ch. 957. Or him easily dealing with Chinjao and Shiki back in the day. And so on. At the end of the day, some of the fandom may have underestimated him, but the text itself doesn't lie. Hell, even in the context of people not fully grasping Garp's strength, it's merely only in reference to him having gotten older, and mainly wondering whether or not he's currently stronger than Akainu. That's still a good position to be. Garp as a character has multiple references that repeatedly told you how truly amazing he was, its just that people found one way or another to downplay some of them. Koby in comparison doesn't have anything like that, so you can't get upset at portions of the fandom not thinking that highly of him, because well, why would we?



Even though I agree, these are both characters that have both very clearly proven their strength. Even Shanks, despite his lack of on-screen action, still has a 4 billion bounty that lets you know that the gap between him and the other Yonkos isn't that large. Though frankly, the fandom figuring out where exactly top tiers fit in strength-wise is a much different story than continuing to find Koby's progression believable.



That's because those people lack reading comprehension skills of what 904 was about lol



All this really tells us is that Koby is a good guy, which we already knew.

Both narratively and strength-wise, Koby has done nothing to deserve the label of being the next "Garp". Nor is his relationship with Luffy at all reminiscent of what we've seen of Roger and Garp's relationship, something that we could at least say for Smoker. And that's what really gets me, that despite the main argument being that Koby may be stronger than people think, it doesn't actually solve the real issue, which is that him and Luffy absolutely do not have a Roger/Garp dynamic. Ch. 903 is even a recent example that reinforced what I'm talking about.
I really get where you're coming from regarding the Coby and Luffy dynamic being much different than Roger/Garp, I just personally think that Coby is going to have a huge role when the series eventually focus on the potential conflict against the marines and the World Government, both of which right now Luffy couldn't care less about. And when that time comes is when the Coby/Luffy dynamic could shape up like what some people are expecting.

I'm aware that all that just sounds like wishful thinking, but my point is that Oda has already demostrated that he can skyrocket the importance and relevance of a character whenever he feels like it, just look at freaking Law. So I'm just saying that I definetly wouldn't call a potential Coby/Garp parallel as "forced".
 

Lotus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
47,285
I really get where you're coming from regarding the Coby and Luffy dynamic being much different than Roger/Garp, I just personally think that Coby is going to have a huge role when the series eventually focus on the potential conflict against the marines and the World Government, both of which right now Luffy couldn't care less about. And when that time comes is when the Coby/Luffy dynamic could shape up like what some people are expecting.

I'm aware that all that just sounds like wishful thinking, but my point is that Oda has already demostrated that he can skyrocket the importance and relevance of a character whenever he feels like it, just look at freaking Law. So I'm just saying that I definetly wouldn't call a potential Coby/Garp parallel as "forced".
I just feel that if it can't even pass that basic criteria, where you can at least look at Luffy and Koby's relationship and feel that it actually mirrors Garp and Roger's, then yea, it just looks forced to me. We're more than 950 chapters into the story, if we can't say it now, then when can we say it? Like I'm not even talking about it being this exact 1:1 thing (again, Smoker and Luffy are a better example), I'm just pointing out that their dynamic has virtually nothing in common with what we've seen from Roger and Garp's interactions. Neither do I think that Koby getting increased focus/screentime in the future is the same as being Luffy's "Garp". Whatever he does in the future still has to actually fit this alleged parallel. Meanwhile, take Blackbeard potentially being a parallel for Xebec. Despite Xebec being a character we're just now introduced to, we can look at Blackbeard's past interactions with Luffy and other characters, how he's framed as an "evil D", where he's atypical compared to the others we've seen in the series. We can see how this theoretical parallel would organically fit quite well if Oda wishes to lean more into it. In comparison, Oda hasn't put in that legwork with Koby at all as far as I'm concerned, so him only trying to make that happen later on this late in the series wouldn't feel right at all. Hence why I conclude that it's far more realistic that this is not the role/parallel meant for Koby, and it never was meant for him. Or anyone for that matter.

As for Law, he's an excellent example of how I view Koby's potential, one that Mr. Morj also touched upon. As we all know, Law unexpectedly got a ton of focus and screentime, lengthy flashback and all. And that's great. But at the end of the day, there still wasn't any convenient parallel to slot him into despite people's best efforts. (Lol at him being Luffy's Whitebeard or w/e) He has his own unique role to play, just like Koby does. So yea, Koby could certainly get a lot more to do in the future. But that doesn't mean he'll be the new Garp.
 

cubotauro

Member
Aug 28, 2019
474
I just feel that if it can't even pass that basic criteria, where you can at least look at Luffy and Koby's relationship and feel that it actually mirrors Garp and Roger's, then yea, it just looks forced to me. We're more than 950 chapters into the story, if we can't say it now, then when can we say it? Like I'm not even talking about it being this exact 1:1 thing (again, Smoker and Luffy are a better example), I'm just pointing out that their dynamic has virtually nothing in common with what we've seen from Roger and Garp's interactions. Neither do I think that Koby getting increased focus/screentime in the future is the same as being Luffy's "Garp". Whatever he does in the future still has to actually fit this alleged parallel. Meanwhile, take Blackbeard potentially being a parallel for Xebec. Despite Xebec being a character we're just now introduced to, we can look at Blackbeard's past interactions with Luffy and other characters, how he's framed as an "evil D", where he's atypical compared to the others we've seen in the series. We can see how this theoretical parallel would organically fit quite well if Oda wishes to lean more into it. In comparison, Oda hasn't put in that legwork with Koby at all as far as I'm concerned, so him only trying to make that happen later on this late in the series wouldn't feel right at all. Hence why I conclude that it's far more realistic that this is not the role/parallel meant for Koby, and it never was meant for him. Or anyone for that matter.

As for Law, he's an excellent example of how I view Koby's potential, one that Mr. Morj also touched upon. As we all know, Law unexpectedly got a ton of focus and screentime, lengthy flashback and all. And that's great. But at the end of the day, there still wasn't any convenient parallel to slot him into despite people's best efforts. (Lol at him being Luffy's Whitebeard or w/e) He has his own unique role to play, just like Koby does. So yea, Koby could certainly get a lot more to do in the future. But that doesn't mean he'll be the new Garp.
Just to be clear I'm not expecting to see Luffy and Coby teaming up to beat Blackbeard in the final battle or anything, I'm saying that I actually expect Coby to eventually become THE marine to look up to, just like what Garp is right now, and in a similar way that Luffy is looking to be THE pirate in the same way as Roger.

So basically I know that doesn't necessarily mean that Coby/Luffy are going to have the exact same dynamic that Garp/Roger had (so maybe this whole discussion was a bit of a missunderstanding :P), but I think Coby is going to become the succesor of Garp's ideals as a marine and will accomplish an actual change in their structure and way of thinking, in a very similar manner to Luffy and the Strawhats being able to accomplish whatever Roger wasn't able to do when he reached Raftel (which seems to be sort of the implication based on what we've heard from Rayleigh), so that's what I mean when I'm talking about parallels.