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Is The Last Jedi a good movie?

  • Yes

  • No

  • Not mah Star Wars proceeds to let out a Chewbacca cry


Results are only viewable after voting.

Flow

Community Resettler
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,340
Florida, USA
Looking Back at the one year anniversary of The Last Jedi. What do you guys think about the film, and the series overall?
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Rian Johnson's The Last Jedi is one of the most polarizing movies in the current popular culture landscape. It challenges what a Star Wars movie can be capable of. By deconstructing what we expect from Stars Wars in both character and plot, Johnson explores themes of failure, sacrifice, and how our personal narratives conflict with reality. That last one is what I'm exploring today.
Each character in the film offers a perspective that is challenged, and their respective character arcs either redeem or damn them. It was inevitable that this kind of reinvention would take place. The Force Awakens tried to restore the pop-myth of Star Wars after the prequels; its plot structure is remarkably similar to the original Star Wars, which was almost certainly intentional. The iconography fans were familiar with remained, but things were tweaked just enough that audiences wouldn't feel cheated. So we got black robes and red lightsabers, handsome men with blasters, and the same scoundrel and giant dog with an ammo belt we've grown to love.
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Rey is the perfect protagonist for that formula. Her role as the audience analogue fits the modern audience better than Luke because we know the franchise. Luke had to learn what the Jedi were. He had to learn the intricacies of the universe and so did we. It was still fresh. In contrast, Rey is fully aware of the Star Wars legacy. Even on a planet as remote as Jakku, she knows of Luke Skywalker, the great Jedi, Han Solo, the man that completed the Kessel Run in less than "fourteen" parsecs, and the galactic turmoil that's raged on for decades. Her questions about the world and herself are the ones we share with her. Where is Luke? Why is Rey special?
After The Force Awakens released and everyone looked to the horizon for the sequel, Rian Johnson was given nearly full creative freedom to tell the story he wanted. The story he sought to make took a wrecking ball to fan expectations. We soon find Rey disappointed with those answers proposed in the first film. Luke is an old curmudgeon that doesn't want to help anyone. Her parents? Nobodies. She's not special at all, just lucky. These questions carried her character's motivations and the audience's interest in her. In learning these truths, Rey pushes forward and grows beyond the answers that would've held her back. If Luke was a superhero that could save everyone, she couldn't grow. If her parents were special, then she truly wouldn't be. Kylo Ren and the power of the dark side tempt her throughout, and she doesn't entirely mind those…temptations. To misquote Johnson, "They hold hands, the closest Star Wars will get to a sex scene." But in the final confrontation, she has her priorities straight and she knows she doesn't need the answers the dark side can provide.
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Most audience complaints center around the side stories of Poe, Finn, and Rose. What's important to realize about these scenes are how much they try to be like the original Star Wars movies, and how much they also change the conditions of the core conflicts to add more depth. People don't like an entire movie where the good guys are being chased? Empiredoes the same thing. The setpiece with those weird deer horses? Not as weird as Gungans or Ewoks fighting a war against trained killers.
Poe's personal arc is about transformation. His brand of heroism was fantasized in the Star Wars universe: shoot first, think later. To Poe, heroism was bravery. His arc forces him to realize victory is won with care and caution.
The losses the Resistance faces are frighteningly real and visceral, something never really seen in a Star Wars film outside of Rogue One. We see the price the Resistance soldiers pay, and how important it is when they are lost. These emotional stakes ground the fantasy. Poe himself changes from a two-dimensional pilot to a character rich with personality and agency. He turned into a leader that is capable of succeeding Carrie Fisher's Leia. Finn and Rose learn the complexities of these wars. Finn tries to escape and is roped into helping the Resistance, but when he sees the Canto Bight and realizes that the galaxy's economy relies primarily on war profiteering, he knows he can's just run away. To Rose, this fact justifies her faith in her actions and what she's doing. She consistently suffers from this. She loses her sister, gets betrayed by DJ, and almost loses Finn.

DJ, meanwhile, serves as the foil. DJ's moral philosophy remains concrete throughout–save for the one caveat-"maybe,"delivered just before he leaves–even as the other characters call him names and insult him to his face. DJ sees the social cogs of the war machine and chooses to abandon illusions. "They blow you up today, you can blow them up tomorrow." If yesterday and tomorrow are all the same, don't join.
Luke Skywalker would agree with DJ. Luke's disillusionment may confuse some, but Luke had the misfortune of seeing the cycle of violence from a spiritual and personal perspective. He was a myth, and his failure to live up to that myth ruined the galaxy. He witnessed the Force violently re-balance itself at the cost of everything he worked to build; his solution to all this cosmic shuffling? Don't join. Despite what many believe, exile is very common for a failed Jedi. The stoicism they must uphold during the greatest moments of failure is seen time and time again, even in Yoda and Obi-Wan.
Again, these dramatic moves aren't actually meant to upset the audience. Sure, maybe surprise, but these are efforts by Johnson to elevate the simplistic material of our nostalgia. Creating these complex characters from these beloved archetypes evolves the audience's own understanding of the universe. More importantly, it evolves the characters and plot in a franchise famous for cyclical stagnation to prevent the power of the story from failing us.
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Which brings us to Kylo Ren, who remains one of the best characters in the current trilogy. If The Last Jedi was all about betraying the past, Kylo Ren is the poster boy. In The Force Awakens, Kylo Ren was the only true subversion of expectations. This was because he faces the real burden of legacy, both in the Skywalker family in the story and as an audience analog to Darth Vader. This was a brutal burden, and it left him with a conflict that confuses many viewers. Remember, all of his heroes and legends and father figures have failed him. All of these narratives we the audience buy into personally fail him as a character, including the vindictive Snoke. By the end of the first film, our expectation–and Snoke's– that he will become the next big bad guy are shattered. Ren was a man in the darkness tempted by the light inside of him, and after everything that happened in The Last Jedi, he has all but given up hope and now seeks to tear down everything that the franchise has ever built. This is entirely new for Star Wars, and it marvelously heightens the drama. Evil and darkness no longer are just abstract concepts with some cool Force lightning. They're raw, reasonable motivations.
Yet the character who changes the most from the start of the film to the end is Luke himself. At the climax, he realizes the power of believing in legends. He realizes the power of a story. Reality may fail; it can disappoint and it can ruin, but the stories we tell ourselves are so powerful that they provide new hope.

Shoutout to my friend Brogan for writing this amazing piece :D
 

Olaf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,419
It sucked and I'm not interested in the franchise anymore. Disney ran Star Wars to the ground hard.
 

Bor Gullet

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,399
A good film with some very uneven moments.

Everything with Luke, Rey, and Kylo is aces. Everything involving Finn and Rose is a boring slog.
 

Cow Mengde

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,721
I feel very indifferent about the film. I see plenty of good parts and plenty of bad parts, so I understand why it's so polarizing.
 

Wiibomb

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,713
loved the film. I absolutely love how it defied expectations of the audience.

As a person who became a Star War follower on TFA and saw every movie before going to see that one, I really wanted the shake up this movie did.

I honestly don't know where Ep IX will go and I really like that.

I recently saw it twice and I really like it. Narrative speaking it has some powerful moments and very interesting bastions about what it wants to tell. Poes narrative arch was really interesting and the most noticeably point in how this movie diverted all expectations.
 

mokeyjoe

Member
Dec 22, 2017
360
I didn't enjoy the film at the time, but not being a big starwars fan it didn't bother me much. It was just an unoriginal typical blockbuster type film.

There are definitely worse star wars films though. Like every prequel. God, they were bad.
 

Goldtones

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
270
The movie didn't have much going on plot wise and doesn't work as the second film in a trilogy.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,717
It's a weird movie. I honestly really enjoyed it. It was a solid adventure movie, it was a lot of fun, high on thrills and had pretty decent character development.

However over time I have also grown to resent the movie as it kind of dismissed a lot of questions that the force awakens left for us, which makes me feel like despite how much happened in TLJ it's very inconsequential. Not that it doesn't matter but that we didn't really go anywhere? Throughout the movie? The movie starts with the resistance under attack and in a bad position trying to flee and the movie ends with the resistance in a worse position and fleeing. Rey and Kylo had decent development. And probably where the bulk of the movie's "progression" stems from.

Over all I still really like it, I just wish it didn't feel like it was also just Rian Johnson looking at fan theories and then brushing them all aside without even providing answers of his own as much as saying "you're stupid for even thinking about this".

The movie didn't have much going on plot wise and doesn't work as the second film in a trilogy.

Basically this but with a huge asterisk because I liked it.
 

Praetorpwj

Member
Nov 21, 2017
4,361
I'm going to have to be all dramatic and say it killed my interest in new Star Wars but I enjoyed Solo so I can't. Totally not arsed about Ep 9 however.
 

TheXbox

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 29, 2017
6,565
Its schismatic effect on the Star Wars fanbase is a staggering clusterfuck to behold.

The film itself is good but flawed enough to supply its detractors with enough ammunition to shit up every Star Wars discussion for ten more years. I'm sure Johnson and LF must be a little disappointed that this is the legacy of The Last Jedi.

Misguided takes like this highlight exactly how Star Wars fans have been trained to view their relationship with Star Wars filmmakers:
Over all I still really like it, I just wish it didn't feel like it was also just Rian Johnson looking at fan theories and then brushing them all aside without even providing answers of his own as much as saying "you're stupid for even thinking about this".
Suspicious, adversarial. The same kind of self-projection we saw during the prequels when fans accused Lucas, Lloyd, Christensen, et al. of targeting them specifically (or violating their childhood, or whatever the fuck).

Johnson wrote The Last Jedi while The Force Awakens was in production. He didn't know how people would respond to Episode VII and he didn't write his movie anticipating your disappointment.

This shit goes for everyone, not just people who hate the movie. Viewers are outrageously out-of-touch, and I guess years and years of shitty movies have trained ya'll to be pessimistic too. It's a nasty combination.
 
Last edited:

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
I think the flim is not very good .
It sucked and I'm not interested in the franchise anymore. Disney ran Star Wars to the ground hard.
1/3 of it is great, the other 2/3s not so much.
I didn't enjoy the film at the time, but not being a big starwars fan it didn't bother me much. It was just an unoriginal typical blockbuster type film.

There are definitely worse star wars films though. Like every prequel. God, they were bad.
The problem with all of these posts is that they're nothing but vague shitposts that don't explain at all why you all don't like the movie. It's just "not very good". Like people who like or love the movie have to comb every frame to defend it but here it's just "not very good Disney ruined everything."
 

Mona

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
26,151
one of the most disappointing films ive ever seen, i only saw it the one time and dont know if i'll ever watch it again

by the end of the screening my head was in my hands and i was in complete disbelief at what was happening on screen

me and my sister saw TFA in theaters together for christmas after i had seen it with the GF, and we were planning on making a tradition of it, and within the first 20 mins of TLJ i was already wondering how i was going to tell her that im probably not going to want to do it that year

before seeing TLJ if you had told me that i wouldn't be seeing Solo in theaters, i would have laughed in your face, but TLJ killed almost all interest i have in the current iteration of star wars
 

horkrux

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,738
Offensively bad movie that killed what little interest in the new movies was left.
You can't just do this to one of my favorite franchises ever >:(
 

Witness

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,818
Hartford, CT
I liked it a lot upon release, but as time goes on the angrier I get about the decision that were made with the characters and story. I'm just glad that JJ is back for 9. I hope he can fix the damage that Rian did. It just feels like he shit all over the story and characters I loved.
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
It's hard to solidify my opinion -- I feel like this film really hasn't been discussed enough yet.
 

FTF

Member
Oct 28, 2017
28,423
New York
It sucked and I'm not interested in the franchise anymore. Disney ran Star Wars to the ground hard.
one of the most disappointing films ive ever seen, i only saw it the one time and dont know if i'll ever watch it again

by the end of the screening my head was in my hands and i was in complete disbelief at what was happening on screen

me and my sister saw TFA in theaters together for christmas after i had seen it with the GF, and we were planning on making a tradition of it, and within the first 20 mins of TLJ i was already wondering how i was going to tell her that im probably not going to want to do it that year

I see the over the top hyperbole continues.
 

dabig2

Member
Oct 29, 2017
5,116
I'm in the acceptance phase where I am fine with the movie not being for me.

Same here. I'll see the next one, but I'm not aching for it, let's just say that.

Overall, the Star Wars universe is just way too small to me, and I really haven't connected with any of the characters enough to really care about their plights nor the overall future of where the franchise will go.

To be even more brutally honest, I've only enjoyed 1.5 films out of the Star Wars movie franchise. I've tolerated 2.5 of their films. And the rest are just straight up bad.
 

Playco Armboy

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
3,406
2nd best Star Wars and one of the best blockbusters in recent memory.

It's the movie the franchise needed to revitalize itself, to challenge the preconceptions of what is supposed to happen in a Star Wars flick. The divisiveness - or more accurately, the indignation of bigots and manbabies - only further proves how effective it was.

Godspeed to Rian's new trilogy.
 

Red

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,701
It's my favorite Star Wars film. Great script. Thematically resonant. Rian has a strong grasp of what Star Wars represents, and how its meaning can be deepened by reflecting on its history. I remember seeing some critic remark it was Star Wars by way of Kurosawa. It feels that way. It was a lightning bolt the series sorely needed, and displays a keen insight into what popular media can be.
 

boontobias

Avenger
Apr 14, 2018
9,542
The problem with all of these posts is that they're nothing but vague shitposts that don't explain at all why you all don't like the movie. It's just "not very good". Like people who like or love the movie have to comb every frame to defend it but here it's just "not very good Disney ruined everything."
Stating your opinion is a shitpost because OP wrote an essay??

What a great way to start a thread off
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,722
The problem with all of these posts is that they're nothing but vague shitposts that don't explain at all why you all don't like the movie. It's just "not very good". Like people who like or love the movie have to comb every frame to defend it but here it's just "not very good Disney ruined everything."
Well not everyone has the filmic vocabulary/knowledge to explain that well. Sometimes just saying you don't like so and so is all you can really do to express yourself. Otherwise usually it always just ends up of going down the rabbit hole of people misusing terms like plot holes and such.
 

HyperionX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
295
I see it as a good movie, except that it's just not a Star Wars movie. I think that's the main reason why it creates so many divided opinions.
 

Deleted member 6730

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,526
Well not everyone has the filmic vocabulary/knowledge to explain that well. Sometimes just saying you don't like so and so is all you can really do to express yourself. Otherwise usually it always just ends up of going down the rabbit hole of people misusing terms like plot holes and such.
I just want a good reason beyond saying it's bad in a big overdramatic fashion.
 

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,011
An actually ambitious Star Wars movie but also completely uneven. It also muddles the themes it seeks to espouse due to the multitude of characters with varying motivations.
 

The Unsent

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,438
Great film.

The only Star Wars film since Jedi where it felt the story was organic and not pre-destined, when Rey enter Snoke's chamber, anything can happen and the same when Luke walks into the battle field. Some of the lamer cliches with TFA, the theories of Rey's mythical secret parents and the boring villain Snoke (aka Palpatine 2), get disposed here and the movies can focus on their strengths. The main theme, the idea of Luke's legacy being bigger than one man was handled beautifully.

I really don't get some of the criticism like 'MCU humour' when all Star Wars films have jokes, or Luke can't change after 30 years and it makes sense he lost faith after history started to repeat itself with Force Order basically being the empire returning.
 

Azzanadra

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,807
Canada
The Last Jedi has good ideas that are executed terribly. People seem to love it because of how "subversive" it is, how it buck trends or whatever- but having good themes does not automatically make a good film, nor does being subversive automatically make a movie "deep". The fans of the Last Jedi tend to come off as "lol u just didnt understand it".

But what do I know, I think Star Wars is a mediocre film franchise in general.
 

samyy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
430
Easily the best Star Wars movie from the perspective of someone who was never really a big Star Wars fan, I think the OP nailed it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
27,590
California
It was a well-made movie, but I just had a weird feeling after watching it. "Was that it? Luke went out like a G but, honestly was that it?"

I just feel like Rian Johnson tried to do too much with it when Star Wars has always been a simple story. I mean, I gotta give him credit for trying something new, but I feel it wasn't executed properly.

If you like the movie, I can respect that. If you didn't like it, I can respect that too (as long as if for the right reasons i.e. no alt-right talking points).
 
Oct 27, 2017
42,700
People keep using the world "deconstruction" as an explanation for what the movie attempts to do and why it's polarizing, but I feel like that's an attempt to incorrectly reframing the nature of the criticisms.

People don't dislike it because it challenges the "normal" Star Wars conventions. People dislike it because the choices it made regarding the plot and characterization ranged from poor to flat out illogical. Characters that had prominent roles before suddenly didn't with little explanation. Characters drastically changed in personality and the reasons weren't justified by the bits we saw. Plot points started by the previous movie ended with underwhelming conclusions.
 

ProtomanNeo

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,190
What the fuck does that even mean? That doesn't mean anything.
Here's what the fuck it means. In the 80's Coke released New Coke. It was supposed to be Coke for a new generation, new and improved. Many people liked it. Some thought it was even superior to, what we now think of as Coke Classic. The problem for many, however was it just wasn't Coke. It was a fine pop in it's own right, but for many who had grown up drinking it, the new formula tasted too different. There was a serious backlash and Coke was forced to course correct.
 

sir_crocodile

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,506
I didn't think TLJ was a very good film. The main plot was so-so, the humour was really cringeworthy, antagonists were a joke and the whole casino planet escapade was useless. TFA was a much better film, even if the retreads to ANH were a bit much. And a lot of story threads TFA opened up TLJ just really seemed to end in an abrupt manner.

TLJ dampened me on SW for a while, but Solo was a lot better so I guess I'll end up watching the final one. SW isn't as special to me as it was though
 

NinjaGarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,550
I think you're giving Poe's story too much credit. This fool gets hundreds of people killed because he couldn't control his ego and is given command at the end for no reason. The fact that Finn, Rose and Poe are directly responsible for leaking the escape plan to the First Order will probably never be referenced again.

Rey, Luke and Ren's plotline was great though, putting aside the fuzzy handling of Luke's death at the end.
 

Wetwork

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,607
Colorado
Luke, Kylo, and Rey had amazing scenes and I loved that part. The finale was amazing.

The space chase and the casino planet are pretty bad tho.