It feels like people really are taking good Star Wars films for granted now.
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One Year Later - 'The Last Jedi: The Power of Story'
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i think you're getting snow confused with salt, it was a salt planet, and those weren't AT-ATs, they were AT-M6s, completely different
I mean, what is Rey going to do with the Jedi Texts? What do the Jedi look like when filtered through someone who has had no formal training? That alone is an interesting question.
What gives me the most pause though is that the biggest praise for TLJ is generally "it defies expectations" and those expectations probably won't be there for rewatches and future generations so you're just left with what's there on screen, which I feel is very hit and miss. I have a hard time seeing a large sway in its popular opinion.
But sure, if IX can somehow really stick the landing and make magic out of building off whats there in TLJ then who knows.
This complaint is way overblown. When was the last time you watched the Yoda scenes?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZRCIjMWRLg
Yoda laughs at Luke's panic then they have a serious conversation.
ETA: You know the books weren't in the tree anymore, right? Rey stole them.
Did you not watch the end of the movie?
"Wisdom they held, but that library contained nothing that the girl Rey does not already possess." Yoda doesn't destroy anything, the books are with Rey and Yoda knows this. I've never heard anyone complain about that scene assassinating Yoda's character. Also, Yoda is not 100% serious with Luke in the OT even after he reveals himself ("when 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not, hm!") There is nothing wrong with Yoda being goofy for literally 2 seconds before he tells Luke he missed him. Also, the conversation they have is incredibly serious and basically is the spark Luke needs to get back in the fray. There is literally no reversal at all, it's entirely consistent with OT Yoda. Unsure how you can think that scene reverses Yoda's personality.
They only killed off Luke at the end of this one and I think he got a pretty solid exit scene. If you disagree I don't think I'll be able to convince you of that fact, though.
They, uh, distinctly didn't kill Leia off at the end of the movie.
Eh, kids liked JarJar for the same reason they did 3po. Maybe new trilogy would be in a better state if they included a comic relief for kids in the obsessive recycling of everything they think defines starwars.
I can't think of a movie I was more hyped for than The Last Jedi, I liked TFA for what it was and thought it set up so many interesting questions to be answered in TLJ. It finally seemed like Star Wars was getting back on the right track after the putrid prequels, my favorite movie franchise was back! That being said, I absolutely hated TLJ. It's an awful movie that I will never watch again that completely killed any interest I had in the franchise. Ugh it bums me out even typing this out because I was such a huge Star Wars fan growing up, but yea TLJ is the worst.
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Now this is a good postPoe disabled the dreadnought in the first ten minutes of the film by single handedly destroying all it's canons.
That moment is perfectly in line with one of the original inspirations for the Jedi: zen buddhist monks. Zen is obsessed with the fact that codifying spiritual teachings into writings and rituals can lead people into missing the original intention of the teaching. They revere moments when zen masters have resorted to tearing up or burning their sacred scriptures in order to uncover the original intention of the text.
So when I saw that moment where Yoda burns the sacred texts, i said YES!! Because that is the essense of a Jedi to me: they are a kind of space zen monk in my original understanding of them (with a dash of samurai and knights templar, to be sure.) Yoda is burning the Jedi texts in an auspicious moment in order to inspire in Luke what the words on the page actually mean. (of course Rey actually stole the texts beforehand, but I feel like Yoda would have done that even if they were in there)...
It was the prequel moments where the Jedi acted like beauracrats or cops that really bummed me out.
Kylo Ren's arc was interesting and well done, I thought. Other than that, I thought it ranged from bad to okay. I liked it more than TFA at least, because it at least tried a few new things.
Overall, I hate this new trilogy though. It feels so directionless and devoid of creativity. The galaxy feels smaller and less interesting than ever before.
I would never want George Lucas back in the director's seat, but his complete absence is notable and unfortunate. I feel like he could've brought a lot of good ideas and context/setting to the table as a producer or something.
Overall, I hate this new trilogy though. It feels so directionless and devoid of creativity. The galaxy feels smaller and less interesting than ever before.
I would never want George Lucas back in the director's seat, but his complete absence is notable and unfortunate. I feel like he could've brought a lot of good ideas and context/setting to the table as a producer or something.
You realize he barely made it out of that fight alive because of the enemy troops?
Literally one of the last things said by Yoda is a self deprecating joke about his old age. Yoda may have been boring af in the prequels, but he absolutely had a playful part to his personality and the way he schooled Luke was just like it always was. And if you recall, there were no sacred texts inside the tree, Rey had them.
Yet another criticism that makes no sense if you pay attention to the film.
I pretty much agree with you. I feel you could cut a good 90 minutes from the film and cobble together something decent with what's left.
Really bad from a storytelling point and had some terrible plot holes. Maybe people just wanted more star wars stuff so they still went and gave disney money anyay which is all they probably care about. I'm not very exited for the next one thats for sure.
Reminds me a lot of FFXV actually.
Reminds me a lot of FFXV actually.
That moment is perfectly in line with one of the original inspirations for the Jedi: zen buddhist monks. Zen is obsessed with the fact that codifying spiritual teachings into writings and rituals can lead people into missing the original intention of the teaching. They revere moments when zen masters have resorted to tearing up or burning their sacred scriptures in order to uncover the original intention of the text.
So when I saw that moment where Yoda burns the sacred texts, i said YES!! Because that is the essense of a Jedi to me: they are a kind of space zen monk in my original understanding of them (with a dash of samurai and knights templar, to be sure.) Yoda is burning the Jedi texts in an auspicious moment in order to inspire in Luke what the words on the page actually mean. (of course Rey actually stole the texts beforehand, but I feel like Yoda would have done that even if they were in there)...
It was the prequel moments where the Jedi acted like beauracrats or cops that really bummed me out.
But it turns out Rey stole the books to read them, which kinda flies in the face of that...
By now, TLJ is stuck in that weird limbo for me where I could almost love the movie because it does have some greatness in it. But it's just so almost that I am actually pretty disappointed by it, if that makes any sense? I think there's some fantastic stuff in it, some pretty dumb stuff that just "happened", and other very dumb stuff that was put in there intentionally to subvert expectations and ended up annoying me with their seemingly philosophy of putting a "gotcha!" moment over something that makes some actual sense.
Also, can't help but hate the Holdo subplot. Now don't get me wrong, I like both Poe and Holdo and their dynamic and I think that their conflict initially is very good and interesting and creates a lot of exciting tension. But the solution in the end is so incredibly hollow and stupid that it singlehandedly destroys whichever sense that subplot made in the first place by having Holdo's decisions be outright dumb. It's unnecessary and disappointing and a waste of both their character arcs.
TL;DR: Really want to love it because of its great bits, but can't quite accomplish that because of its stupid bits, which endresults in me being disappointed yet still able to enjoy it mostly, in a "let me turn a blind eye or two on this" way. Visuals and cinematography are, mostly, gorgeous though.
Also, can't help but hate the Holdo subplot. Now don't get me wrong, I like both Poe and Holdo and their dynamic and I think that their conflict initially is very good and interesting and creates a lot of exciting tension. But the solution in the end is so incredibly hollow and stupid that it singlehandedly destroys whichever sense that subplot made in the first place by having Holdo's decisions be outright dumb. It's unnecessary and disappointing and a waste of both their character arcs.
TL;DR: Really want to love it because of its great bits, but can't quite accomplish that because of its stupid bits, which endresults in me being disappointed yet still able to enjoy it mostly, in a "let me turn a blind eye or two on this" way. Visuals and cinematography are, mostly, gorgeous though.
And it's pretty clear Yoda knew--he just didn't want Luke to know.
I'd have to see more to judge, but all i've seen was Twin Peaks and The Return. I love TP more for what it did for tv than the show itself, in retrospect. The Return felt a lot more like David Lynch doing his thing than Twin Peaks in a sense, not that there's anything wrong with that. Wasn't a huge fan of it overall, but I don't regret watching it.
Also, does Paula Dern really like wearing wigs or something?
Yeah, The Last Jedi did Yoda justice. It was a beautiful scene that fit his character to a T. The level some people entirely misread scenes like this to the point of stating outright falsehoods (that he was just goofy when he had quite the serious moment with Luke, that he burned the texts when between Yoda's own words and the shot of the texts on the Millennium Falcon it was made clear that didn't happen, even if he wanted Luke to think that), I almost wonder if different theaters got different cuts of the movie.
This reminds me of all the people who acted like the story was about Killing the Past...when that was what the villain took from the events, not the heroes.
This reminds me of all the people who acted like the story was about Killing the Past...when that was what the villain took from the events, not the heroes.
I loved the movie and I point out the parts that I love. I don't care if people don't like it, but they seem to be on a mission to confirm it's a bad movie in every thread on TLJ like movies aren't subjective. Like the post I quoted. I know it goes both ways but one side seems more determined to label the movie on their own personal feelings. It's fuckin weird.
On a different note, Are they're any other movies that have been very well critically received to be as disisive as this movie? I can't think of any right now. Makes me really think Rian did something special for this movie to be talked about as much as it is. This movie is what, a year old now? And these topics pop up everywhere.
It was the ideological point he was making that mattered. Luke was completely unaware of the truth, (gee Yoda telling Luke half truths that never happens).
That's why it's hard to take any criticisms of the film seriously. Because good lord people are so goddamn bad at critiquing the movie since they seemingly barely demonstrate a surface level understanding of the points the film was making.
What troops? In space? Are trying to say fighters? The point is that the attack plan made no sense as does almost none of the combat in the movie. Everyone is stupid for the sake of the script to work. The First Order could have stopped the entire Resistance upon arrival by destroying their escape ship. Instead the target the evacuated base.
Poe also goes and does a direct attack on the anti starship defenses which he takes out entirely by himself. Instead he could have attacked the undefended side of the ship (it's noted as such in the guide book), and taken out the auto cannons instead, which would have completely erased the entire threat the Resistance faced.
And again, the First Order loses a dreadnaught because it simply doesn't know how to move it's own ship and stayed in stationary spot, nor moved up any of the support ships that it had with it.
Not to the same, popular, degree. But I'm sure films like Elephant or Antichrist would similarly fit that audience / critic divide.
ive seen Eraserhead, The Elephant Man, and Mohalland Drive
Mohalland Drive confused me and i was slightly bored at parts, but overall all good films
Another reason I didn't like TLJ, and new movies in general, is that Kylo Ren is a joke of a villain. He comes across as a pre-teen edge lord who has discovered Linkin Park for the first time. Darth Vader was a believable antagonist, hell, even the villain from Rogue One was a realistic villain.
Yes, he literally barely made it out alive while doing the attack run. It was Poe's plan in the first place and the film quite literally starts with characters saying that it was a bad plan and it had terrible consequences for the film and led to his demotion and highkey the rest of the film's events.
That's literally the point. He's a compelling antagonist and got more characterization than Vader did across the two films, however, but that doesn't mean we have to be afraid of him, because the characters aren't. Luke was terrified of Vader:
They deliberately make a callback to this same specific type of fear initially:
But Rey isn't Luke, she's a fighter. The second she stops being afraid of the boogeyman is the second that the film stops portraying Kylo as a boogeyman but as someone she, and thus us, fight against without fear:
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True, but I don't think it changes the meaning of that moment. Yoda has made Luke believe the texts are burnt in a teachable moment. Luke is made to believe that the way forward as a Jedi is not to bother about words on paper.
Would Yoda have refrained from burning the texts if they were actually in there? I doubt it. I don't think that display was actually conditional on Rey stealing them first.
It worked in TFA for him to be like this. But I thought the whole point of TLJ was that he would grow out of it and become a serious menace, hence the trailer showing him smashing his mask.
But nope, he is near Hux in terms of being nonthreatening and pathetic.
We'll see. If IX opens and the ghosts of Luke and Yoda tell Rey to keep reading the Jedi texts for some more patented Abrams Mystery Box bullshit, I'll laugh out loud...
Lol..it sure is :-)
The world would be a poorer place if we all held the same opinions...we just need to be able to discuss our differences in a civil manner...which for the most this thread has done...
Fair enough, I haven't watched the movie since release so I really just remember Yoda burning the tree with the books and mentioning that they weren't page-turners, I didn't think he knew Rey had taken the books, and I'm still not sure that was made clear in the scene. Maybe that's what he meant by all the knowledge in those books is already within her? But I took that as Rey already had a near total understanding of what jedi are, which is kinda strange considering her willingness to explore the dark side.
So my biggest gripes might have to go to the goofy or stupid stuff like Maaz Canada's phone call fight scene or Finn and Rose parking illegally on the beach for no reason.
And to not come across as just another asshole that hated everything about the movie, I did enjoy Rose's sister's moment at the beginning and Chewie eating the porg.
That is unrelated to the poorly thought out scenario. Stuff just happens because they need it for later story elements, its one of the issue with the movie. So many bad choices and stupid plot elements that just seem to exist to explain why the plot goes the way it does later. Its as if the movie never thinks of the here and now
its like finding a rock in your spaghetti, and the fact that the spaghetti looks so good make's the rock's presence even more painful
Haha yeah... well on that point, I actually don't think JJ treated the Jedi like spiritual monks in TFA. I think his vision of the Jedi was more like Harry Potter or X-Men... gifted children awakening to magic powers. He could easily treat the Jedi texts as some hocus pocus macguffin to learn new powers or whatever.
I feel Rian Johnson was more interested in reconstituting the original flavor of The Force/Jedi as post-1960s zennist spirituality, rather than "magic" per se.
This is an incredibly apt way to describe my feelings about TLJ
Except it's not a poorly thought out scenario. The resistance coming up with a ridiculously risky plan that had huge losses despite them technically "winning." That's absolutely the spirit of SW and the first thing that the film critiques as an aspect of SW. You're essentially asking for characters in a space fantasy film to react to things as realistically as humanly possible and that's never how Sw has ever worked in anyway shape or form from the beginning. Scenarios in SW always require some form of suspension of disbelief because the overall message is hella important right down to the first 15 minutes of A New Hope where for literally no plausible reason they didn't shoot down the escape pod, you know....that thing that led to the total destruction of the empire over the course of 3 movies.
I dont even remember much of it and that fact alone speaks for itself in how I enjoyed it. I did enjoy Rogue one much more.
I got the same feeling as when I watched the 2ond to last Harry Potter movie, its a mediocre movie with some decent parts, too long, filled with fanservice/nostalgia and close ups of the bird so Disney can sell plastic shit. All in all just a transport to build up for episode 9 to go all in and hopefully be great.
I got the same feeling as when I watched the 2ond to last Harry Potter movie, its a mediocre movie with some decent parts, too long, filled with fanservice/nostalgia and close ups of the bird so Disney can sell plastic shit. All in all just a transport to build up for episode 9 to go all in and hopefully be great.
I kind of agree with this, but every time we've seen the Rebellion go all out with crazy attacks it was do or die, they were fighting for their existence and too free the galaxy from a one-of-a-kind weapon. Poe makes it seem like that dreadnought is one of several, so it didn't make sense to lose 95% of your fleet taking out one ship when there are several backups, and a much larger ship than those. The sacrifice against Snooky's flagship made a lot more sense. The battle on Hoth was similar but that was to buy them time to escape and save the Rebellion, Poe's plan wasn't as necessary as the Mon Cal cruiser was already prepped for hyperspace.
The movie is just full of people making dumb decisions.
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I came into Star Wars in 1997 when the Original Trilogy Special Edition's were re-released into Cinemas. I was 13 and it was magical.
I've been a huge fan of the films and the wider world of Star Wars ever since. I've gone back to watch the original theatrical cuts, digging up old VHS and Laserdisk releases, etc. Most of my favourite videogames are old LucasArts Star Wars games like Tie-Fighter, Dark Forces, etc.
The Last Jedi is a nearly perfect Star Wars film to me. It overtook Empire on first viewing and still holds on to that top spot. It is exactly what I wanted out of a modern take on a universe I love so much.
I'm sad that not everyone enjoyed it, especially because for some it seems to go beyond lack of enjoyment and towards some more visceral dislike. At the same time I can't help how other people feel, so I'll just continue to enjoy my favourite Star Wars film, and hope that the next one is even half as good.
I've been a huge fan of the films and the wider world of Star Wars ever since. I've gone back to watch the original theatrical cuts, digging up old VHS and Laserdisk releases, etc. Most of my favourite videogames are old LucasArts Star Wars games like Tie-Fighter, Dark Forces, etc.
The Last Jedi is a nearly perfect Star Wars film to me. It overtook Empire on first viewing and still holds on to that top spot. It is exactly what I wanted out of a modern take on a universe I love so much.
I'm sad that not everyone enjoyed it, especially because for some it seems to go beyond lack of enjoyment and towards some more visceral dislike. At the same time I can't help how other people feel, so I'll just continue to enjoy my favourite Star Wars film, and hope that the next one is even half as good.
That's a natural side-effect of getting older. The scope of TLJ is larger than the scope of ANH, but this isn't your first trip into space. Or your second. Or your tenth...
It's understandable because it's part of the muddled messaging of the movie. I posted about this earlier but Yoda's scene contributes to the "Destroy the past" narrative that some people took from it, even though Kylo is supposed to be in the wrong. You'd have no idea that Yoda was just being cheeky if you missed the 2 seconds the books were on screen at the end. I remember the first time I saw it asked the person I was with if that was the Jedi books and he wasn't sure.