https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/...d-ontarios-first-non-binary-birth-certificate
How soon does an inevitable Doug Ford premiership reverse this policy?
Ontario issues first non-binary 'X' birth certificate
- Thread starter FriskyCanuck
- Start date
https://www.vice.com/en_ca/article/...d-ontarios-first-non-binary-birth-certificate
Thou got used to singular you, thou will get used to singular they in time.
I feel ignorant. What does non binary mean?
You're factually either a man or a woman, and can change it to the other sex but dropping it entirely is out of my grasp
You're factually either a man or a woman, and can change it to the other sex but dropping it entirely is out of my grasp
It's when you don't exclusively identify as male or female
Re: "factual", no you aren't factually male or female from a gender sense at birth or even from a biological sense sometimes
That's to some degree the point of contention: it doesn't really need to be in your grasp. Don't take that as criticism, by the way. I don't "get" it either, but it's not my life and this person is an adult who can make their own decisions.
Have sex on it for medical reference and gender on it for social reference
for sex there should only be 2 options, I don't understand why they would ask gender as the baby haven't decided it yet
Well, the issue with that is that there aren't really just 2 sexes. Intersex people do exist, so if you wanted to go purely off of sex, then having just 2 options is still somewhat restrictive.
A birth certificate wouldn't be used for medical reference, if it was introduced for our health cards i could see them listing gender and sex separately. I don't believe its been discussed for that, but I've seen it brought up to have the X gender option for our photo Id/drivers license too.
Because it's a birth certificate and lists your biological gender as a specific fact. It's fine to go back and change it later if you are uncomfortable with what it says and don't identify with it, but putting nothing on a baby's birth certificate seems like unnecessary ambiguity.
They don't have all that much purpose anyways beyond confirming you exist and if there's some kind of legal dispute over your biological gender there's a million ways to demonstrate that and the records of the change are going to be logged in the system that generates birth certificates.
I guess that is true, being born with both genitalia, although it is rare
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Do you think that trans people should never be able to alter what's on them? If so, why do you feel that way?
I can see keeping sex just for any potential medical complications, but leave gender off. Government agencies take long enough to print out certificates, passports, etc. as is. Adding another thing that needs to be printed seems a bit much and will inevitably delay your paperwork.
Read the next paragraph to see what they mean.
After learning that they're not for the purpose I thought they were, No
I did and I'm still scratching my head. That's kind of a reach.
Whether it is or not, if it makes people happy to change it, I don't see the problem.
I missed it. Thanks. I had to expand the quote, and it dropped the post down a line or two. Completely missed it. I'm on the right page now.
I'd recommend you and anyone else who feel that read through our Transgender 101thread that Ketkat kindly put together for us, specifically the "How are transgender people treated?" part to get an idea of why calling that a stretch isn't accurate for most people who this initiative aims to help.
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As a transwoman, having some kind of identification that marks me as male can be a bit distressing, so I can understand where they're coming from with this. By having the correct forms, it can break through that invalidation coming from a government level if they weren't allowing this, while also allowing you to change other forms of identification so that there's less instances of being outed by strangers whenever you show any form of ID. I doubt the latter really applies if you have a non-binary ID, but knowing that the government of your country has your back on a legal front is a massive reassurance.
Imagine needing to do something that required an official document like a birth certificate, needing to lie to get through it because they don't recognize non-binary and all the anxiety involved with that. There are several things like that can add up, acting as roadblocks to an otherwise "normal" life that other people have and removing them helps people be more involved with society. It's not penicillin but every little bit helps.
Kind of odd to change what is listed as birth sex? Unless Ontario's birth certs use gender instead of sex? Your sex at birth could not factually change (male, female or a rare condition like intersex). If they wanted to add a gender option, that would make sense though.
As long as it's adults retroactively changing their birth certificates, cool.
Your gender identity is not something you figure out right out of birth, obviously, so assigning babies as non-binary right out of birth would be as likely misgendering as forcing a person who turned out to be trans or NB to stick to the gender binary.
Your gender identity is not something you figure out right out of birth, obviously, so assigning babies as non-binary right out of birth would be as likely misgendering as forcing a person who turned out to be trans or NB to stick to the gender binary.
Maybe, but what's the harm in changing it on the birth certificate?
Doug Ford getting ready to sent out those new emergency alerts to frightened conservatives.
They typically are born with ambiguous genitals, not both, and we’re talking an official document, not an option to pick on a web site for an account where it doesn’t matter. Things that reall should be accounted for.
I admit i don't have the links to back me up right now, but i swear there has been at least one case where it was literally someone born with both.
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Being reminded of all the progress Ontario has made that could be reversed by the PC's pisses me off. This province was supposed to lead the way.
We are about to go from a party that has an openly gay leader to one that accepts members openly spreading homophobia.
Hmm, I guess there's no real harm on the face of it. I think it would mess up some population data and census taking though. It's helpful to have a record of the exact number of male vs female babies born for medical and scientific reasons for example. An additional 'Gender' line added to all birth certificates that people can change as they want would have been a better fix, but oh well.
Oh, I’m not doubting it, and it’s even why I said “typically.” But I’d have to imagine it’s far more likely to have genitals that got caught midway in development than just forming an extra set. Regardless, a situation where M/F doesn’t cut it.
This is really good to see; I hope this continues elsewhere.
Obviously some of that’s a little different if you’re changing it to be marked as nonbinary, but it can still be validating and helpful to have identification that’s accurate to who you are.
The problem is that while sex and gender are indeed different (though sex isn’t really binary anyway), that’s not exactly always recognized on official forms, and so to have accurate identification (and consistent identification) you’d want your listed sex to match your gender to prevent headaches. And I’m sure it helps in situations where you’re going through something that requires ID and it’d be much easier/safer not to be immediately seen as trans, etc.
Obviously some of that’s a little different if you’re changing it to be marked as nonbinary, but it can still be validating and helpful to have identification that’s accurate to who you are.
I mean, I don’t think this would be marked at birth at all (unless a very small number of parents opt for it in a few cases)? So that kind of data would still be “accurate” for births in a year.
Gotta say I'm side-eyeing these what-about-the-census, what-about-sex-vs-gender, what-about-etc posts pret-ty hard. I'd almost think those posters had some kind of bias that made them think they needed to put people in a category for some reason. Hmm, I wonder what that reason could be...
Originally I took the certificate to being referred to with newborns based on the title of the thread, so I found it odd seeing as babies don't have much of any concepts on anything. I found that oddly projecting.
But reading the article and seeing it applies to someone even older than I, and how having the "right" documentation on paper is something liberating to the individual, I absolutely get it. People want to be seen for their beingness, and that includes the labels they choose to ascribe to.
It seems very harmless in a retroactive sense, but I imagine conservatives think this is some sort of Doomsday. Where's Jordan Peterson whining about this when you need to see the sour people ruin the fuckin' mood?
But reading the article and seeing it applies to someone even older than I, and how having the "right" documentation on paper is something liberating to the individual, I absolutely get it. People want to be seen for their beingness, and that includes the labels they choose to ascribe to.
It seems very harmless in a retroactive sense, but I imagine conservatives think this is some sort of Doomsday. Where's Jordan Peterson whining about this when you need to see the sour people ruin the fuckin' mood?