Ooblets will be exclusive to Epic Games Store on PC

[Evolution of Metal]

Apparently we all love timed exclusive money hats and agree it's good for consumers and the industry.

These threads exemplify why PC era is diminishing.

How about people who live in unsupported countries or use unsupported payment methods?

Or people who rely on competing marketplaces to grab games for less than MSRP?

Click to shrink...

The discussion is toxic, and it is toxic because you want to pounce on everybody liking EGS, but you aren't going to fact check your knowledge of EGS. Nobody disliking EGS will respond to your post, and most people who don't mind EGS have already bailed.

• Apparently 20 free games mean absolutely nothing to people
• Deals like EGS giving an extra €10 discount out of their own pocket are also useless.
• There are no countries unsupported by EGS unless you want to count countries like North Korea or Iran where US business is forbidden
• You can hide in the more payment methods on Steam comment, but EGS support payment by cards, Paypal, Pre-paid cards, bank transfers and other services.

Please stick to the actual issues like Linux Support, Controller, barebones store. It is not healthy to lie about issues or hide in ambiguity, it misleads people and contributes to the shitshow that is every ERA thread.

 

[XR.]

Aside from cultivating a bunch of exclusive games to make their special magical launcher thingies seem more attractive to install? That seems like good competition to me. Gives each platform the chance to create a USP for itself with the games it sells, rather than just one big company having a monopoly on the whole market. And it doesn't affect the end-user in any adverse way. Console exclusives, sure, I can get being upset by that; arbitrarily holding games to ransom on a particular piece of hardware is actually going to impact players, as it's a physical barrier.
With Epic, Steam, GOG, whatever... the only barrier is a 50Mb install. What's the issue?


Yeah they totally should, why not? I don't see what difference it makes, it's just a launcher.

Click to shrink...

What are you referring to when you say "cultivating exclusives"? As in creating content themselves or acquiring exclusive rights to existing games like Epic? I can see the accompanying benefits from the first but not from the latter, since the product already has appeal on its own merits. That's not enough for me to call something a good influence on the industry. It's a bonus for the publishers/developers, which isn't necessarily wrong in and of itself, but I can't help being completely indifferent to it since I have no idea who these people are; what they're doing with the money and how much they need it. The struggle of keeping afloat still remains a problem so it's not really a solution to anything.

Steam isn't making up a majority of any market in terms of revenue share, PC gaming or otherwise--and certainly not the "whole market". This idea is widespread and I honestly have no idea why. I have no interest in calling it a monopoly or a non-monopoly because there is no definition that 100% fits the context, but you need to set up a pretty specific range of parameters to find the specific market you're thinking of. A monopoly can only be ruled by a court of law so instead of having that lengthy conversation for no reason, we can call out the issue at hand and discuss how to get around it. Considering your stance on the matter, I take it you take issue with Steam's market share which would enable them to use unfair market strategies? In that case I'm curious what specific issue(s) you're focused on. What is Valve doing wrong now, that would be fixed due to competition?

Xbox, Playstation and Nintendo operates with complete monopoly on their own platforms, which isn't surprising in the least for obvious reasons, but it's funny how it's never considered as something problematic in that context. On PC, it's the other way around; where some people have the idea that there needs to be several agencies because "competition".

Steam has improved lots, with new features and improvements on the regular, before Epic entered the market. They've always had incentive to do this, and I think it shows.

 

[Airbar]

The discussion is toxic, and it is toxic because you want to pounce on everybody liking EGS, but you aren't going to fact check your knowledge of EGS. Nobody disliking EGS will respond to your post, and most people who don't mind EGS have already bailed.

• Apparently 20 free games mean absolutely nothing to people
• Deals like EGS giving an extra €10 discount out of their own pocket are also useless.
• There are no countries unsupported by EGS unless you want to count countries like North Korea or Iran where US business is forbidden
• You can hide in the more payment methods on Steam comment, but EGS support payment by cards, Paypal, Pre-paid cards, bank transfers and other services.

Please stick to the actual issues like Linux Support, Controller, barebones store. It is not healthy to lie about issues or hide in ambiguity, it misleads people and contributes to the shitshow that is every ERA thread.

Click to shrink...

Thank you. There are plenty of real issues with their store (and I would argue with how they go about their business). Though I would say having your customers pay for payment processing fees because your cut doesn't cover that is bad as well and should be called out. Tim Sweeney then saying they have to do that in third world countries like ... half of Europe is tonedeaf and dumb.

 

[Guybrush Threewood]

My personal $.02 into all of this is that I started PC gaming back when I had to flip over 5.25" floppies to progress to the next area.

I completely understand the arguments and desires of a 2019 global audience. For me though, I can manage fine with where EGS is right now, but, I know others can't or won't and that's ok and I get it. Still interested in this and the other games on EGS.

 

[Yippiekai]

And in all honesty I guess I didn't realise those features of Steam were even that widely used or valued, hence why I've probably come off as a lot more presumptuous and dismissive here than I intended, so I do apologise for that. To me Steam has always just been nothing more than a launcher, but obviously that's just me, so yeah, I will stop talking now, sorry.

Click to shrink...

Your opinion about it is as important as any, it represents a percentage of users. Those who don't care about features view the main problem as "just a launcher" and that's ok for them. It might have come off as dismissive but it's a fair point. No need to stop talking about it, the problem was that some people used the "just a launcher" argument as a trolling technique.

Not to say there are not other issues with EGS as a whole. Some regions of the world have limited access to it (can't buy games on it or higher prices). The market prices are mostly fixed for a huge number of games, making Epic and the devs the only ones deciding what a game should cost and not allowing competitive prices on other stores (not speaking of grey market but a number of games are only available on EGS and not on sites like GMG or Gamesplanet). There is the fact that EGS is not available on Linux, which might be a small portion of players, but is still a portion.

Add everything together and we come to the situation where people can fund a game on Kickstarter, EGS can just snatch the exclusivity by throwing money and the players that paid for a game to be funded can't play it because of their location/operating system, even if it was ok at the moment the KS page ended. That's way more shitty than the lack of features of the EGS and why I just can't view it as a "just a launcher" problem.

 

[Lothars]

The discussion is toxic, and it is toxic because you want to pounce on everybody liking EGS, but you aren't going to fact check your knowledge of EGS. Nobody disliking EGS will respond to your post, and most people who don't mind EGS have already bailed.

• Apparently 20 free games mean absolutely nothing to people

Click to shrink...

The 20 free games are nice but again every service has given free games away, it's a not a new thing let alone a thing that really props them up.

• Deals like EGS giving an extra €10 discount out of their own pocket are also useless.

Click to shrink...

It's an issue when games are taken off the sale because they didn't know it was happening or they raised the price of their game at the time of the sale, I was just reading that some games such as borderlands 3 are not back for some countries after it was removed.

• You can hide in the more payment methods on Steam comment, but EGS support payment by cards, Paypal, Pre-paid cards, bank transfers and other services.

Click to shrink...

Are fees still being charged to customers for using some of those payment methods? I can't seem to find an answer one way or another. The other thing about countries is that there were some that steam supported but epic didn't and epic supported but steam did, I can't seem to find a list either way.

Point being is this issue is not black and white.

 

[StayMe7o]

And in all honesty I guess I didn't realise those features of Steam were even that widely used or valued, hence why I've probably come off as a lot more presumptuous and dismissive here than I intended, so I do apologise for that. To me Steam has always just been nothing more than a launcher, but obviously that's just me, so yeah, I will stop talking now, sorry.

Click to shrink...

Steam's controller support is awesome. You're able to use a controller with games that don't support them and can map it however you want to. I can't play M+KB/it's uncomfortable to me, so having this feature has been incredibly helpful. Granted, it doesn't work for all games (like old DOS point and clicks).

 

[ShinUltramanJ]

But I don't think having to install another launcher is anti-consumer at all. Sure, it may not be explicitly pro-consumer either, but I feel the impact of this is being greatly, greatly exaggerated.

Click to shrink...

Having to install another launcher isn't anti-consumer at all. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people that don't have a few installed, because that's just a part of PC gaming.

The real issue for me is being forced to use a substandard launcher because Epic's paying to block other launchers from offering it. I say other launchers but they're really just targeting Steam and maybe GoG. I feel that Microsoft gets it, and has dropped the exclusivity game. They've earned nothing but goodwill because their actions are beneficial to customers, while EGS has been the exact opposite.
As others have said, they could've went about this so much better.

And yeah, I like taking pics of my games when playing. Steam makes it easy As they all go directly to my content page. I snap pics on Origin and Uplay and have to hunt them down on my PC. Not a huge deal, but the little things do count.

 

[Exist 2 Inspire]

The discussion is toxic, and it is toxic because you want to pounce on everybody liking EGS, but you aren't going to fact check your knowledge of EGS. Nobody disliking EGS will respond to your post, and most people who don't mind EGS have already bailed.

• Apparently 20 free games mean absolutely nothing to people

Click to shrink...

Every other Store gives out free games as well this is nothing special

• Deals like EGS giving an extra €10 discount out of their own pocket are also useless.

Click to shrink...

Yes for me in Europe this was useless because it was US only.

• There are no countries unsupported by EGS unless you want to count countries like North Korea or Iran where US business is forbidden

Click to shrink...

General support does not mean local currency support. If somebody in say Malaysia has to pay in USD and a single game costs them half of their monthly earnings because of that, there is something wrong.

 

[Alexandros]

The discussion is toxic, and it is toxic because you want to pounce on everybody liking EGS, but you aren't going to fact check your knowledge of EGS. Nobody disliking EGS will respond to your post, and most people who don't mind EGS have already bailed.

• Apparently 20 free games mean absolutely nothing to people
• Deals like EGS giving an extra €10 discount out of their own pocket are also useless.
• There are no countries unsupported by EGS unless you want to count countries like North Korea or Iran where US business is forbidden
• You can hide in the more payment methods on Steam comment, but EGS support payment by cards, Paypal, Pre-paid cards, bank transfers and other services.

Please stick to the actual issues like Linux Support, Controller, barebones store. It is not healthy to lie about issues or hide in ambiguity, it misleads people and contributes to the shitshow that is every ERA thread.

Click to shrink...

The main actual issue that most people have with EGS is moneyhatted exclusives. The things you mentioned can't really address that. Epic can give away free games every week but people will still care more about the one game they want to buy on their platform of choice but can't.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

The 20 free games are nice but again every service has given free games away, it's a not a new thing let alone a thing that really props them up.
It's an issue when games are taken off the sale because they didn't know it was happening or they raised the price of their game at the time of the sale, I was just reading that some games such as borderlands 3 are not back for some countries after it was removed.
Are fees still being charged to customers for using some of those payment methods? I can't seem to find an answer one way or another. The other thing about countries is that there were some that steam supported but epic didn't and epic supported but steam did, I can't seem to find a list either way.

Point being is this issue is not black and white.

Click to shrink...

Yep, it would be nice if someone could just link the same document about every issue and feature being examined so we don't have to discuss anything. People read through the document -> they decide whether it is acceptable or unacceptable. It should be pinned to every EGS thread.

Quick responses:
• Availability on pre-orders during the Epic sale was blunder, but everything is back on the shelf after the sale
• Processing fee is still a thing on uncommon payment methods: 2-6%?. I hope EGS can get Paysafe fee lowered, but having a small overhead on the payment method is better than no payment method at this time.

Every other Store gives out free games as well this is nothing special

Yes for me in Europe this was useless because it was US only.

Click to shrink...

The sale was global, it worked everywhere. I don't remember if the discount was €10 or $10 converted to euros, but got my Hades for €6.61

Subjective what is "Nothing Special", because the value/popularity of EGS freebies is insane compared to the old games given on other platforms. There are games on EGS free game list that have never been lower than $10, while Steam/Humble freebies are the type of games that have been on 90% off multiple times.

 

[Sidebuster]

At this point of the history of what Epic has been doing and how they've been acting, it doesn't have anything to do with store vs. store. It has to do with how I disagree with their practices.

For one, constantly taking games from kickstarter backers and making lairs out of game devs. As an example, the Shenmue 3 developers saying there was going to be a PC physical release with the actual game on it and making a point in saying it wasn't just another CD with a code. A back room deal later, suddenly the CD is just a CD with an epic store launcher on it.

Most of these developers play it out like they were going to disappear over night if not for those deals. Like the backers are an interest free loan joke. I have less of an issues with developers like Super Giant due them being there from the get go. But I do take issue with them trying to gas light me as how the Epic store is some how superior as a place for an early access game. Even though there are no forums, etc.

Then there is Tim Sweeney/Galyonkin pushing a narrative like Fox News pundits. Calling Steam's 30% a "tax" while conveniently ignoring that it's a standard and that Steam takes a huge hit in certain markets along with doing more than any other "store" or game company does for VR, Linux, controller support, R&D, etc. "Sitting on their laurels" narratives, etc. Then there's the scraping of information without users consent to see what games Steam users have on their wish list to buy exclusivity on those game. Claiming to never do what they did with Metro as a last minute switch to EGS and then do it again and again anyways.

These things are just what I can remember off the top of my head at the moment and I know that only scratches the surface of what I've seen them say and do and I think is bad for the industry and bad for consumer rights.

That's why I'll never use an Epic product again if I can help it, nor will I be quick to support any developer that uses them (though not as hard lined as I am against Epic). It has nothing to do with what store has what features anymore. It's more about what kind of company Epic is and the practices I see them using. For Ooblets it's the developers clear disdain for their customers and potential customers and Tim Sweeney coming in and stirring the pot with a stupid tweet.

 

[Lothars]

Quick responses:
• Availability on pre-orders during the Epic sale was blunder, but everything is back on the shelf after the sale

Click to shrink...

It sounds like in some countries that's not the case which is something I don't understand, I'll link you the article. specifically in the thread it mentions turkey and south africa. https://www.reddit.com/r/fuckepic/comments/cll767/borderlands_still_not_being_sold_on_their_store/

 

[Madjoki]

• Processing fee is still a thing on uncommon payment methods: 2-6%?. I hope EGS can get Paysafe fee lowered, but having a small overhead on the payment method is better than no payment method at this time.

Click to shrink...

Well at least here Epic took out every method with fee so they can say they no longer charge fees (sans paysafe), so they don't agree with you.

 

[Mobyduck]

Mh? Are you its author?

And no, honestly I don't particularly "want to", so I'm not sure why I'm being highlighted among many.
But yeah, if that's what you are curious to know I can tell you I fundamentally disagree with most of the points made there.
It's not just disagreement either. I find the entire line of reasoning suggested there pretty damn disingenuous and close to "gaslighting": "You don't really think what you think, you are being fooled into disliking Epic by alt-right movements" is quite the patronizing attitude to bring to the discourse.

Click to shrink...

Apologies for the delay, but since the thread has moved on, I will keep things short.

From my perspective you seemed very intent on trying to prove Eniko was being patronizing and over generalizing, since you feel you are being unfairly lumped with other people. Her theory is very clear, she believes that the amount of vitriol targeted at the Ooblets' devs far exceeded the group of people who even knew what Ooblets was, by a huge margin. Not only that, false information was spread, and still is, about the developers, in an attempt to paint as something they weren't. Those two points indicate to her that a malicious group of people, in a way similar to what Gamergators do, was creating a smear campaign against those devs, and she believes it was alt-right people behind it in what she sees as a cultural war (which has been going for some time now, inside and outside gaming). They have the numbers, the know-how and the will to do this kind of thing.

Now, I don't see why you think that was patronizing. Even in this community we are on we quickly began to see people sharing pictures of the devs' Discord server, as well as their Twitter account. We saw some of the doctored pictures posted here, without any regard for the consequences that sharing those things could have. Unwittingly or not, this community helped spread the toxicity and empower the harassment campaign against the devs, in the name of righteous justice against Epic. If you personally was part of that or not, I do not know, but I do agree with Eniko in that the people spreading those pictures around the web were used by people who very much want to see these devs suffer for their decision.

Spreading lies because they align with your views, irregardless of the damages it might cause, don't make you an alt-right Gamergator, but it definitely makes you a fool, as she puts it.

 

[Meia]

Having to install another launcher isn't anti-consumer at all. I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people that don't have a few installed, because that's just a part of PC gaming.

The real issue for me is being forced to use a substandard launcher because Epic's paying to block other launchers from offering it. I say other launchers but they're really just targeting Steam and maybe GoG. I feel that Microsoft gets it, and has dropped the exclusivity game. They've earned nothing but goodwill because their actions are beneficial to customers, while EGS has been the exact opposite.
As others have said, they could've went about this so much better.

And yeah, I like taking pics of my games when playing. Steam makes it easy As they all go directly to my content page. I snap pics on Origin and Uplay and have to hunt them down on my PC. Not a huge deal, but the little things do count.

Click to shrink...

Basically all this.


Epic has money to burn, they've shown that. Instead of releasing the launcher this year, if they had waited a year before doing antagonistic things for it to have feature parity with any other store/launcher in 2019, you wouldn't have had half the pushback against this as you've had. I mean, there are other programs one can use on the PC that basically puts all of your games on all of your launchers on *one* launcher, so "just another launcher" has never been an actual issue. If I have to wonder if I erase a game from my hard drive that I'll also lose all of the saved progress I've ever had with it, something I haven't had to worry about for many years now(even across consoles at this point), there's a problem.


Then you have people who legitimately have no idea what they're talking about entering these types of threads and using "another launcher" and "monopoly" without understanding what the terms even mean, and most of them pretend to not even see reasonable answers because it goes against their talking points, and it feels like you're banging your head against the wall against some flat-earther nutjob. Months of this has led to most of this toxicity because the more level headed people realized there's no point arguing with nut jobs when a ban is all you'll have to show for it so stop bothering.


The bottom line is Epic is acting like a bull in a china shop and have shown no care at all to what damage they're causing. "Oh but we're helping indie developers" on one hand while ruining Kickstarters that were long established and about to be completed with the other, all while reveling in the mayhem it seems like. Throw in antagonistic journalists that care more about making devs/pubs happy so they can keep the same ol same ol with access to stories so they have no problem sneering at the people actually keeping the developers/pubs in business, and yeah. I'm not sure I've seen any other industry you can actually spend money on that seems so against the people spending said money, yet here we are.

 

[Exist 2 Inspire]

The sale was global, it worked everywhere. I don't remember if the discount was €10 or $10 converted to euros, but got my Hades for €6.61

Subjective what is "Nothing Special", because the value/popularity of EGS freebies is insane compared to the old games given on other platforms. There are games on EGS free game list that have never been lower than $10, while Steam/Humble freebies are the type of games that have been on 90% off multiple times.

Click to shrink...

Ohh sorry about that i thought you meant the $10 off on Metro Exodus which was only in the US iirc. Nevermind then.

 

[Deleted member 43]

At this point of the history of what Epic has been doing and how they've been acting, it doesn't have anything to do with store vs. store. It has to do with how I disagree with their practices.

For one, constantly taking games from kickstarter backers and making lairs out of game devs. As an example, the Shenmue 3 developers saying there was going to be a PC physical release with the actual game on it and making a point in saying it wasn't just another CD with a code. A back room deal later, suddenly the CD is just a CD with an epic store launcher on it.

Most of these developers play it out like they were going to disappear over night if not for those deals. Like the backers are an interest free loan joke. I have less of an issues with developers like Super Giant due them being there from the get go. But I do take issue with them trying to gas light me as how the Epic store is some how superior as a place for an early access game. Even though there are no forums, etc.

Then there is Tim Sweeney/Galyonkin pushing a narrative like Fox News pundits. Calling Steam's 30% a "tax" while conveniently ignoring that it's a standard and that Steam takes a huge hit in certain markets along with doing more than any other "store" or game company does for VR, Linux, controller support, R&D, etc. "Sitting on their laurels" narratives, etc. Then there's the scraping of information without users consent to see what games Steam users have on their wish list to buy exclusivity on those game. Claiming to never do what they did with Metro as a last minute switch to EGS and then do it again and again anyways.

These things are just what I can remember off the top of my head at the moment and I know that only scratches the surface of what I've seen them say and do and I think is bad for the industry and bad for consumer rights.

That's why I'll never use an Epic product again if I can help it, nor will I be quick to support any developer that uses them (though not as hard lined as I am against Epic). It has nothing to do with what store has what features anymore. It's more about what kind of company Epic is and the practices I see them using. For Ooblets it's the developers clear disdain for their customers and potential customers and Tim Sweeney coming in and stirring the pot with a stupid tweet.

Click to shrink...

I still don't understand this line of reasoning. For all their faults, Epic isn't taking anything, and they certainly aren't "making liars out of game devs." The devs are doing that to themselves. They are the ones who made promises to their backers and players, and they are the ones valuing money over keeping their word.

No one is forcing these companies to take Epic's deal.

 

[Dr. Ludwig]

It isn't true and it would be a formula for failure, I agree.
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1106592237729787904?s=20
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/status/1106594504381992961?s=20

I see tweets from Tim stating that competing with features alone wouldn't be enough. I don't see anywhere they state that they wont be implementing any more features for the store.

Click to shrink...

I should've worded my post better and thank you for posting the tweets. Apologies.

I still vehemently disagree with him especially that second tweet. I think service quality and especially accessibility ( in pricing and region availability) are still paramount to a platform's success.

Steam did a have a huge impact in reducing piracy rates in developing countries. It's not only games and exclusives that contributes to a store's success. And judging from their recent actions and statements, I have very little faith in them in terms of development of competitive features.

 

[Crayon]

What about Linux?

Click to shrink...

I think there's a major misunderstanding that the Linux support and development only benefits Linux users. It's really important for all of us.

 

[Swenhir]

I still don't understand this line of reasoning. For all their faults, Epic isn't taking anything, and they certainly aren't "making liars out of game devs." The devs are doing that to themselves. They are the ones who made promises to their backers and players, and they are the ones valuing money over keeping their word.

No one is forcing these companies to take Epic's deal.

Click to shrink...

Epic is offering the destructive deals, the devs are taking them. It takes two to tango and both parties are guilty as charged of hurting kickstarter for everyone else.

 

[1000% H]

A statement about the harassment.

 

[Spyware]

It would be nice if we could make a thread about the arguments for and against the EGS, instead of using a thread about a specific game announcement. I would love to be able to have a chat about EGS without it being linked to a game, dev or something else that happened. Every thread we've had is a reaction thread to an announcement, statement or the like and it doesn't let the discussion flow properly. Just a "Let's talk about why people like and dislike EGS" kind of thread would be so good. A place to point people to when they say "but what's the problem, it's a free launcher", linking specific posts related to it and so on. It really doesn't fit in this thread because it feels like it so easily can tip over to be about what these specific devs have said and done.

I would make it but I am not good with words and don't feel confident enough.

 

[Murasaki]

Yeah, got the ping in Discord. It deserves its own thread. Not surprised by this filth, just absolutely fucking sickened

 

[Spyware]

A statement about the harassment.

Click to shrink...

Good post.

"And if you think it's proportional to be a part of all this just to police some random person's tone while ignoring everyone else's, you're still a part of it."
This is a good part to bring up here in Era because some people still really wanted the discussion to be about what he had said and his tone. It doesn't matter anymore. We all know what we think about that now and we need to focus on the bigger picture.

I do stand behind my real disappointment about the response to the ableist tweet and that it took days for it to disappear from the liked tweets list, and the stuff said directly to me, but I get that he wasn't really receptive to the information at the time. It's still something that will pop up in my mind whenever I see this game and therefore I am gonna keep it off my wishlist for now. Because yeah I had it there since the Steam page went up, I was interested in this game since the first time I saw it and that has been my motivation to talk about all of this from the start. And yes I am autistic.

Edit: About the selected screenshots in that statement post, I saw even worse stuff being absolutely spammed during the time I was in the Discord. It was absolutely sickening. I really hope they can get that Discord back into what it was before because it seemed like it had been a really nice place until it was invaded.

 

[Kyra]

It's really crazy that this discussion was surrounding everything but the decision to make it exclusive to EGS.

 

[werezompire]

EDIT: Removed this because it was more about EGS in general and not about the game specifically.

Just read the new article. Hope that calms things down.

 

[Crayon]

Guys, ignore the "just another launcher" crowd. We've had a few pages of actually interesting discussion with people who make arguments and are willing to debate the issue, let's not ruin this.

Click to shrink...

100% behind this. that line has been the simplest of can openers and it's time to stop taking the bait. Save your breath for better posts. Despite having to pick through a lot of noise, there is plenty of more satisfying back and forth that goes on in epic threads.

 

[svacina]

EDIT: Removed this because it was more about EGS in general and not about the game specifically.

Just read the new article. Hope that calms things down.

Click to shrink...

If certain contingent got into it that's wishful thinking.

 

[1000% H]

I do stand behind my real disappointment about the response to the ableist tweet and that it took days for it to disappear from the liked tweets list, and the stuff said directly to me, but I get that he wasn't really receptive to the information at the time. It's still something that will pop up in my mind whenever I see this game and therefore I am gonna keep it off my wishlist for now. Because yeah I had it there since the Steam page went up, I was interested in this game since the first time I saw it and that has been my motivation to talk about all of this from the start. And yes I am autistic.

Click to shrink...

Yes, the harassment is the "larger" and more dire issue to address but that does not alleviate things like that tweet, especially since it was only reinforced in their message.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

Ew, GOG, no thanks! But you do you!

And it totally is just a launcher. Most if not all of the 'features' in Steam can be done just as well if not better by other third-party apps... Or, like, you could actually just run your Epic games through Steam itself, and get plenty of those features back? If you really want overlays, or whatever else is that Steam does? None of that seems prohibitive enough to warrant being upset by all this though. You can still play the game, which is all that really matters in the end, surely? What point am I missing?

Click to shrink...

Oh look, another flippant post from someone telling others to not be upset while dismissing their concerns because they personally don't give a shit.

 

[Minky]

Oh look, another flippant post from someone telling others to not be upset while dismissing their concerns because they personally don't give a shit.

Click to shrink...

I have since apologised for this, please keep up.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

I have since apologised for this, please keep up.

Click to shrink...

Please stop with the talking down to people.

I generally try to catch up on threads by starting from where I left off and replying to posts as I go along. Glad to hear that my frustration no longer applies.

 

[manchego obfuscator]

after reading the new Medium post and thinking this over more, I've come down more on Glumberland's side. They screwed up with the PR, and EGS exclusivity has serious problems, but none of that comes even close to justifying the hatestorm and I don't want to ever suggest otherwise

 

[Deleted member 1635]

Steam has improved lots, with new features and improvements on the regular, before Epic entered the market. They've always had incentive to do this, and I think it shows.

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I started using Steam in 2005 and they really don't get enough credit for this. They have developed a massive amount of useful features for both end users and developers over the years and it's really quite unprecedented if you ask me. People can say they don't justify the platform fee they charge, and that is certainly something worth talking about, but it would not be fair to say that Valve has not been constantly investing in their platform and improving it.

At this point of the history of what Epic has been doing and how they've been acting, it doesn't have anything to do with store vs. store. It has to do with how I disagree with their practices.

For one, constantly taking games from kickstarter backers and making lairs out of game devs. As an example, the Shenmue 3 developers saying there was going to be a PC physical release with the actual game on it and making a point in saying it wasn't just another CD with a code. A back room deal later, suddenly the CD is just a CD with an epic store launcher on it.

Most of these developers play it out like they were going to disappear over night if not for those deals. Like the backers are an interest free loan joke. I have less of an issues with developers like Super Giant due them being there from the get go. But I do take issue with them trying to gas light me as how the Epic store is some how superior as a place for an early access game. Even though there are no forums, etc.

Then there is Tim Sweeney/Galyonkin pushing a narrative like Fox News pundits. Calling Steam's 30% a "tax" while conveniently ignoring that it's a standard and that Steam takes a huge hit in certain markets along with doing more than any other "store" or game company does for VR, Linux, controller support, R&D, etc. "Sitting on their laurels" narratives, etc. Then there's the scraping of information without users consent to see what games Steam users have on their wish list to buy exclusivity on those game. Claiming to never do what they did with Metro as a last minute switch to EGS and then do it again and again anyways.

These things are just what I can remember off the top of my head at the moment and I know that only scratches the surface of what I've seen them say and do and I think is bad for the industry and bad for consumer rights.

That's why I'll never use an Epic product again if I can help it, nor will I be quick to support any developer that uses them (though not as hard lined as I am against Epic). It has nothing to do with what store has what features anymore. It's more about what kind of company Epic is and the practices I see them using. For Ooblets it's the developers clear disdain for their customers and potential customers and Tim Sweeney coming in and stirring the pot with a stupid tweet.

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Thanks for writing this up. Very good summary of the situation as I see it.

 

[catswaller]

I understand that most of you will never comprehend the relationship between your "consumers rights vs greedy devs/sellouts" ideology and the harassment and behavior exhibited in that medium post, but I hope some of the dozens of you who were picking apart his every word read it and do some self reflection.

The pathetic us vs them + "devs owe us games" ideology thats prevalent on resetera is the same entitled attitude that promotes much worse behavior.

 

[Spyware]

after reading the new Medium post and thinking this over more, I've come down more on Glumberland's side. They screwed up with the PR, and EGS exclusivity has serious problems, but none of that comes even close to justifying the hatestorm and I don't want to ever suggest otherwise

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I would hope every single person on Era is on Glumberland's side regarding the harassment.

 

[manchego obfuscator]

I would hope every single person on Era is on Glumberland's side regarding the harassment.

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I wasn't pro-harassment, but I was definitely more inclined to blame Glumberland for the PR missteps than I should have been

 

[Alexandros]

I understand that most of you will never comprehend the relationship between your "consumers rights vs greedy devs/sellouts" ideology and the harassment and behavior exhibited in that medium post, but I hope some of the dozens of you who were picking apart his every word read it and do some self reflection.

The pathetic us vs them + "devs owe us games" ideology thats prevalent on resetera is the same entitled attitude that promotes much worse behavior.

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I think it would be best to keep the two discussions in their respective threads.

edit: I didn't know the other thread was locked, my apologies.

 

[catswaller]

I think it would be best to keep the two discussions in their respective threads.

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I understand that this is a transparent attempt to deflect criticism, but the other thread was locked with a mod statement to continue discussion in this one.

 

[Luckett_X]

Really glad he didn't back down over the cheeky tone of the announcement. Even though all the threats from 12 year olds and horrible language they had to wade through probably wasn't worth it, the end result is shining a bright spotlight on just how absolutely ridiculous the EGS Platform War stuff has become for people that can be swayed back to the realm of sanity. All this over a very tongue in cheek joke about saving vitirol for climate change and human rights abuses versus perhaps not having this niche indie game where you dance with turnip people on your digital store of choice.

Looking at the above and thinking "right, time to threaten his wife" means you're either a very early teens edgelord or are in immediate need of brain chemistry medication.

 

[SplitYourInfinities]

That medium post made me sick. Maybe it will make some of you rethink your attitude and comments made in this thread.

 

[Minky]

Please stop with the talking down to people.

I generally try to catch up on threads by starting from where I left off and replying to posts as I go along. Glad to hear that my frustration no longer applies.

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From the one who opened by talking down to me after not bothering to read the rest of the discussion :P FFS

 

[Asbsand]

I understand that most of you will never comprehend the relationship between your "consumers rights vs greedy devs/sellouts" ideology and the harassment and behavior exhibited in that medium post, but I hope some of the dozens of you who were picking apart his every word read it and do some self reflection.

The pathetic us vs them + "devs owe us games" ideology thats prevalent on resetera is the same entitled attitude that promotes much worse behavior.

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I still think it's fair game to accuse a developer of being a sellout (well, "fair game" isn't exactly the most tactful way to put it) but there's a difference between saying "Ooblet took their money, those sellouts!" and "That guy who develops the game and his wife suck, here's what I think of you #¤"#!"!¤§!"

And that's the issue of this movement against EGS. At the bottom of that Gamer-foodchain there's always those vile, manchild losers who project their own unhappiness on their surroundings, and their stake in EGS probably has more to do with their own pure hatred and opportunity to spread their hate than it has anything to do with how much they like a game. And when all the top YouTube whatevers start making a crusade against EGS like they would with EA well, then even this smallest game developer that many of us haven't even heard of, take the spotlight as the next in line to get their new "EGS bashing".

As it read in the Ooblet guy's post there's several lines that have been crossed and that's why we're now discussing the harrasment of this issue and not just the dealings of how/why this game should/shouldn't be exclusive to one store-front to our inconvenience. But I wanna make the distinction with that "line" that was crossed because I hate all this "reaction to the reaction" bullshit, where because one guy said "now it's harrassment" that it somehow now puts a lid on any criticism towards EGS and their strategy of popularizing a new business of theirs. Ultimately both things matter but there's a difference between discussing the acts of harrassment that ensued versus the deal that was made, even if they're both part of the same case, IMO.

 

[Alexandros]

I understand that this is a transparent attempt to deflect criticism, but the other thread was locked with a mod statement to continue discussion in this one.

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I wasn't aware of it, I apologize.

 

[Deleted member 1635]

I understand that most of you will never comprehend the relationship between your "consumers rights vs greedy devs/sellouts" ideology and the harassment and behavior exhibited in that medium post, but I hope some of the dozens of you who were picking apart his every word read it and do some self reflection.

The pathetic us vs them + "devs owe us games" ideology thats prevalent on resetera is the same entitled attitude that promotes much worse behavior.

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That was a good write up. I completely agree with his statement here:

I hope that laying all this out helps in some way to lessen what pain is brought against whoever the next targets are, because we sadly know there will be many. You should have opinions, disagree with things, make arguments, but don't try to ruin people's lives or jump on the bandwagon when it's happening.

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[catswaller]

I still think it's fair game to accuse a developer of being a sellout (well, "fair game" isn't exactly the most tactful way to put it) but there's a difference between saying "Ooblet took their money, those sellouts!" and "That guy who develops the game and his wife suck, here's what I think of you #¤"#!"!¤§!"

<...>

As it read in the Ooblet guy's post there's several lines that have been crossed and that's why we're now discussing the harrasment of this issue and not just the dealings of how/why this game should/shouldn't be exclusive to one store-front to our inconvenience.

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The ridiculous idea that individuals making a game (or even, honestly, big evil corporations making a game) have broken some kind of social contract and deserve your vitriol when they make a business decision to not give you a game you want, or not give it on your terms, absolutely enables the future behavior by more radical/antisocial members of the gaming community.

Steam has really great loyalty/lock in features so its totally cool to not want to leave it, or to whine when you can't get a game on it, but the fact that even this (relatively progressive/decent?) forum has an institution of hundred page threads calling developers greedy monsters when they decide to sell to epic is absolutely part of the problem.

 

[Messofanego]

Now, I don't see why you think that was patronizing. Even in this community we are on we quickly began to see people sharing pictures of the devs' Discord server, as well as their Twitter account. We saw some of the doctored pictures posted here, without any regard for the consequences that sharing those things could have. Unwittingly or not, this community helped spread the toxicity and empower the harassment campaign against the devs, in the name of righteous justice against Epic. If you personally was part of that or not, I do not know, but I do agree with Eniko in that the people spreading those pictures around the web were used by people who very much want to see these devs suffer for their decision.

Spreading lies because they align with your views, irregardless of the damages it might cause, don't make you an alt-right Gamergator, but it definitely makes you a fool, as she puts it.

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What the heck happened since I last posted in this thread at page 2 or something. Wow, users were doing that here in this very thread?! Where was the mod action, were people banned for spreading misinformation?

 

[Deleted member 48897]

No cloud saves, no steam controller profiles even if you add the game as non steam (no native universal controller support either), no steam achievements, games a lot more expensive, no family sharing, no forum for a game to look at for any bugs/tips/mods.

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GOG forums are actually pretty decent, family sharing is pointless when you can install copies of a game on any PC you own, and I still don't understand the need for cloud saves on PC given the existence of file browsers and USB sticks. The point about the lack of controller profiles stands.

 

[zulux21]

A statement about the harassment.

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A lot of good writing in there , overall a solid statement on the harassment that hopefully will help people get off their back over this so they can go back to focusing on their game.