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[OPEN SPOILER] Now that the entire Sword/Shield Pokédex leaked, let's mourn the Pokémon that got Thanos-snapped by Game Freak [SEE STAFF POST]

Feb 22, 2019
271
The problem with getting rid of Pokemon to balance the metagame is how Pokemon, in the competitive scene, interact with one another - getting rid of one overpowered Pokemon, for instance, can remove a crucial counter or even check to another Pokemon, who is now broken. Now think of this issue, but repeated five hundred times, and you get the Sword and Shield metagame.

A National Dex cut to balance the metagame can work, in theory, but it requires an immense amount of care and effort for it to not end up making the metagame even more unbalanced then before - probably even more so than coding in all of the Pokemon.
People don't seem to realise that for some reason. The Galar meta might be fresh, but it will most likely not be balanced. With old threats gone, other Pokémon will rise instead. The top players will always find the best Pokémon to use in competitive play. If none of the new Pokémon has Magnet Pull I bet Ferrothorn will be happy. I guess Aegislash doesn't mind losing most of the really strong ones.
 

CatDoggo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
686
Also note: The list that has been out doesn't include Mew. Mew is in the game. There may be others. Let's not take the list as absolute just yet. We always felt between 400 and 500 was the most likely number. Just have to look at past posts here to see that, now it's found to be that number I'm a bit surprised at the blowback again.

Also, Jesus christ, why have I even been attacked here?


I had already apologised and instantly removed that post the moment I was made aware of the history of that phrase. Note I am autistic myself (It's probably bloody obvious by my site) so screw off with that sort of BS. It wasn't to mock everyone who had a problem with the cuts either. You're pushing a false narrative here
I'm not sure why you brought this post up alone without acknowledging where the rest of my posts on this matter went. As soon as someone said that you simply made a mistake and took it back as soon as possible, that it wasn't coming from a place of maliciousness, I accepted it as truth. I'm like, really really glad to hear that what I thought was going on wasn't the case. Perhaps the internet has just made me cynical and caused me to assume the worst in people first and foremost. In any case, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have brought it up in the first place, and I would edit that post to delete the content but its been quoted enough times now that it doesn't matter if I try to remove it anyway. I'll just continue making it clear that I do not feel this way any longer about the incident. We should just leave Serebii alone and I'm just kind of an idiot for having even brought him up in the first place.
 

Fj0823

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,206
Costa Rica
Oh so now the narrative changes to "We always knew it was going to be more than half of it".

JFC. We've been hearing "Wait and see, it's not going to be that bad, who cares about Maractus? They're just trimming some fat" for months now.

But of course, GF does no wrong. Again.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
6,546
I'm not sure why you brought this post up alone without acknowledging where the rest of my posts on this matter went. As soon as someone said that you simply made a mistake and took it back as soon as possible, that it wasn't coming from a place of maliciousness, I accepted it as truth. I'm like, really really glad to hear that what I thought was going on wasn't the case. Perhaps the internet has just made me cynical and caused me to assume the worst in people first and foremost. In any case, I'm sorry. I shouldn't have brought it up in the first place, and I would edit that post to delete the content but its been quoted enough times now that it doesn't matter if I try to remove it anyway. I'll just continue making it clear that I do not feel this way any longer about the incident. We should just leave Serebii alone and I'm just kind of an idiot for having even brought him up in the first place.
Ok, my apologies for bringing it up. I was given the post and wanted to just make sure it was clear what happened.

It's all good :)
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,126
Oh so now the narrative changes to "We always knew it was going to be more than half of it".

JFC. We've been hearing "Wait and see, it's not going to be that bad, who cares about Maractus? They're just trimming some fat" for months now.

But of course, GF does no wrong. Again.
Yeah who's "we" and when did they know? Because I sure as hell didn't lol.
 

NHarmonic.

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
5,955
Oh so now the narrative changes to "We always knew it was going to be more than half of it".

JFC. We've been hearing "Wait and see, it's not going to be that bad, who cares about Maractus? They're just trimming some fat" for months now.

But of course, GF does no wrong. Again.
The goalposts were going to be moved, it was obvious.
 

Odeko

The Fallen
Mar 22, 2018
4,720
Midwestern America
Oh so now the narrative changes to "We always knew it was going to be more than half of it".

JFC. We've been hearing "Wait and see, it's not going to be that bad, who cares about Maractus? They're just trimming some fat" for months now.

But of course, GF does no wrong. Again.
I think most dexiters assumed it would be a lot (since why incur all the hate if you’re still going to make most of the Pokemon anyway) and that’s why we’ve been so upset the whole time.

That being said, even as someone who assumed it would be half, seeing the list is what really drove home how much I’d be missing my boys.
 

Fj0823

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,206
Costa Rica
The goalposts were going to be moved, it was obvious.
Add it to the list.

Next up.

"It sold well so that proves you whiners were wrong"

I think most dexiters assumed it would be a lot (since why incur all the hate if you’re still going to make most of the Pokemon anyway) and that’s why we’ve been so upset the whole time.

That being said, even as someone who assumed it would be half, seeing the list is what really drove it home how much I’d be missing my boys.
Oh I'm fully aware many considered a 50%+ cut possible and a worst case scenario.

What's funny is that a week ago we would always get the magical "How do you know it's 50%? You don't know that, that would make no sense, they're just going to remove Maractus lol, wait and see"

And now that we're in THE worst case scenario we are getting the whole thing handwaved with "Oh its ok, we ALWAYS knew it was going to be like this, I wonder why everyone is mad D: ".

The hypocrisy.
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,059
The datamine may be when shit really hits the fan.

Just imagine if the data for every single Pokemon is in the game files with only the models absent (which was the case in LGPE).
 

Fj0823

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,206
Costa Rica
The datamine may be when shit really hits the fan.

Just imagine if the data for every single Pokemon is in the game files with only the models absent (which was the case in LGPE).
Oh I'm just waiting for the moment it's revealed the models are the same as the 3DS ones and that the "from scratch" bullshit was in fact, bullshit.
 

CatDoggo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
686
I can't wait for it to turn into 'well, you were never a real Pokemon fan to begin with'

Like I said before, I'm almost considering doing a drinking game for the sheer smugness that's going to radiate from the review/sales thread on these games, but then I realized I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning before the end of the first page. LOL

In any case, I saw a post once that I think sums things up perfectly. I don't even think they were speaking of Pokemon at the time, but it seems relevant enough. It went something like, 'With big name, long running video game franchises, they almost always sell well even if they have massive, glaring flaws. Brand name recognition alone will get you far. Some of the worst, most glitchy, broken games from the big name franchises still sold perfectly fine. Most of the least liked games in a franchises will still have sold fine regardless. That's just the way the game industry is and the best thing you can do is simply make your criticisms heard and hope the devs take it to heart because it is very rare for big name franchises to ever stumble hard enough to affect sales. If Fallout 5 came out today, even with all of the backlash toward current Fallout games, it would still sell absolute gangbusters regardless.'

And I guess for me it's like, if you're going to enjoy these games and think they're just fine, I hope you have fun, I almost envy you that you can overlook what I see as big, game ruining flaws and still enjoy it, because I do genuinely like a lot of the new Pokemon we're getting. For me though, cutting over half the roster of Pokemon is kind of a franchise ruining moment that I cannot overlook. It entirely ruins the way I've always played these games since the beginning. I hate being told over and over again that the way I enjoyed these games was apparently wrong the entire time and that I should just shut up about it. I've always said that I'm not criticizing where the series is going because I hate Gamefreak, I just want them to do better. To me, this isn't acceptable for a 60 dollar game, especially when compared to what the other Nintendo franchises are doing on the Switch right now.
 

ZeroMaverick

Member
Mar 5, 2018
172
Does this extreme cut matter if in a year or two when the Diamond and Pearl remakes come out it includes most if not all of the cut pokemon and you can trade between games? Just curious because it seems like that's their obvious plan. Diamond and Pearl have that haunted house with Gengar, right? So that's where they'll show back up.
 

Aaronrules380

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
9,942
Does this extreme cut matter if in a year or two when the Diamond and Pearl remakes come out it includes most if not all of the cut pokemon and you can trade between games? Just curious because it seems like that's their obvious plan. Diamond and Pearl have that haunted house with Gengar, right? So that's where they'll show back up.
They’ve said that no game going forward won’t have cuts. I wouldn’t expect sword and shield to get patched and I also wouldn’t expect the DP remake to even have all the Pokémon from SwSh
 

Fj0823

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,206
Costa Rica
Does this extreme cut matter if in a year or two when the Diamond and Pearl remakes come out it includes most if not all of the cut pokemon and you can trade between games? Just curious because it seems like that's their obvious plan. Diamond and Pearl have that haunted house with Gengar, right? So that's where they'll show back up.
This is the one thing we're actually in "We don't know" territory, they had already said that "No" that you could only trade Sw/Sh Pokemon into DPPt remake IF those Pokemon are in the Sinnoh Dex only. That's their official stance as of now.

But with this blowback, who knows? Maybe they'll use each of these game to build assets and end the switch Generation with an "EVERYONE IS HERE" Gen 9.

Or they'll just triple down and have a DPPt remake with less mons than the original.

At this moment,given their messaging, the latter is more likely, as awful as it sounds. ):
 

Maple

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,059
Does this extreme cut matter if in a year or two when the Diamond and Pearl remakes come out it includes most if not all of the cut pokemon and you can trade between games? Just curious because it seems like that's their obvious plan. Diamond and Pearl have that haunted house with Gengar, right? So that's where they'll show back up.
Yes, because you now have a fractured community. Each game is its own little gated community with its own exclusive list of comptaible Pokemon. The same problems still exist - you can't breed/trade/battle/or use the majority of Pokemon in each game. Players will have Pokemon in one game that can't be brought over to another game.

This actually becomes problematic for Game Freak later down the line. Let's fast forward to 2021. Sinnoh remakes and Sword/Shield 2 have been released, all with different Pokemon compatibility lists than Sword and Shield. One of Game Freaks justifications for the cuts is that it's "too much work" for all of the models and animations and such. But by the end of 2021, they would already have released 3 main games on the Switch each with different Pokemon. Meaning that among all 3, they would probably have close to if not all of the Pokemon remodeled and animated (assuming you accept this as their reasoning).

So then what happens with Gen 9 in 2022? If all of the Pokemon assets have all been updated by that point, why wouldn't they make all Pokemon compatible with the Gen 9 games in 2022?
 

Natiko

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,633
Yes, because you now have a fractured community. Each game is its own little gated community with its own exclusive list of comptaible Pokemon. The same problems still exist - you can't breed/trade/battle/or use the majority of Pokemon in each game. Players will have Pokemon in one game that can't be brought over to another game.

This actually becomes problematic for Game Freak later down the line. Let's fast forward to 2021. Sinnoh remakes and Sword/Shield 2 have been released, all with different Pokemon compatibility lists than Sword and Shield. One of Game Freaks justifications for the cuts is that it's "too much work" for all of the models and animations and such. But by the end of 2021, they would already have released 3 main games on the Switch each with different Pokemon. Meaning that among all 3, they would probably have close to if not all of the Pokemon remodeled and animated (assuming you accept this as their reasoning).

So then what happens with Gen 9 in 2022? If all of the Pokemon assets have all been updated by that point, why wouldn't they make all Pokemon compatible with the Gen 9 games in 2022?
Because then Gen 9 will have some other "feature" they use to justify needing new animations for and thus continuing to cut the roster.
 

Yiazmat

Member
Oct 25, 2017
249
User Warned: Antagonizing and misrepresenting another user
We always felt between 400 and 500 was the most likely number. Just have to look at past posts here to see that, now it's found to be that number I'm a bit surprised at the blowback again.
You always felt? Really?



 

Fj0823

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,206
Costa Rica
You always felt? Really?





Inb4 "well AT THE TIME it WAS misinformation!"
 

HotHamBoy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,791
Is this Pokemon's Street Fighter III: The New Generation moment?

If so, I guess you guys at least have Sword & Shield: Third Strike to look forward to.
 

Wamb0wneD

Member
Oct 26, 2017
16,126
You always felt? Really?



 
Oct 25, 2017
4,835
Arizona
Does this extreme cut matter if in a year or two when the Diamond and Pearl remakes come out it includes most if not all of the cut pokemon and you can trade between games? Just curious because it seems like that's their obvious plan. Diamond and Pearl have that haunted house with Gengar, right? So that's where they'll show back up.
No, these aren’t just currently unavailable Pokémon that simply don’t spawn anywhere but are otherwise in the game, like how you needed to wait until FR/LG to complete the R/S Dex. If that was the case, I don’t think anyone would care.

These cut Pokémon are permanently unobtainable. You can’t transfer the missing Pokémon from Home or future titles such as the remakes. Period. And that will be the new norm - titles with permanently reduced selections with hundreds of completely unusable species. Which is going to be more of a mess when the remakes come out and players will only be able to trade and battle between games with the specific species available in both.
 
Last edited:

Mekanos

Member
Oct 17, 2018
13,289
So it looks like Pokemon moving forward will always have cut Pokemon which really sucks.

What Pokemon do you guys think will NEVER ever be left out?

I think obviously Pikachu will never be excluded from a Pokemon game as he’s the face of Pokemon.

I also think Gardevoir will stay forever, because if it ever gets removed, a whole new population of internet dwellers will be pissed off.
Before this leak I would have said Zubat. So just Pikachu, Eevee and Charmander.
 

Fj0823

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,206
Costa Rica
No, these aren’t just currently unavailable Pokémon because they just can’t be caught anywhere, like how you needed to wait until FR/LG to complete the R/S Dex. These cut Pokémon are permanently unobtainable. You can’t transfer the missing Pokémon from Home or future titles such as the remakes. And that will be the new norm - titles with permanently reduced selections with hundreds of completely unusable species.
It's funny how much *misinformation* is there regarding the cuts.

A lot of people seem to think this is a Gen 3 situation were future games will bring the roster back to how it was.

Can't wait for the masses to find out the harsh truth.
 

killertofu

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
897
You always felt? Really?



Doing Arceus' work son
 

Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,220
It's funny how much *misinformation* is there regarding the cuts.

A lot of people seem to think this is a Gen 3 situation were future games will bring the roster back to how it was.

Can't wait for the masses to find out the harsh truth.
well based on the other thread with the the poll we have, i think you are the one who will still be the most upset in the end
 

MegaXZero

Member
Jun 21, 2018
2,993
You always felt? Really?



That really doesn't counter what he said, but it figures how toxic some people are towards Serebii.

Saying for a fact half were cut at the time was something nobody knew as fact. He could have easily felt it would be 400-500, he was keeping track of the pokemon seen, but would still not want something unconfirmed spreading as fact.


Also, Jesus christ, why have I even been attacked here?
If you aren't raging with the mob you must be against everything they think.
 

Syntsui

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,136
I wonder how big of a deal this will be to the reviewers and if that will be the turning point for GAMEFREAK to change whatever philosophy they adopted for this Gen.

They promptly ignored the initial backlash and argued that this is how things will be from now on, but I can see the reviews changing their stubborn minds.
 

Fantomex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,545
I wonder how big of a deal this will be to the reviewers and if that will be the turning point for GAMEFREAK to change whatever philosophy they adopted for this Gen.

They promptly ignored the initial backlash and argued that this is how things will be from now on, but I can see the reviews changing their stubborn minds.
That's the part I'm stumped on. I'm not sure if reviewers are going to take that into consideration. They might consider the forewarning about Pokemon being cut months ago as a "pass" to not judge them so harshly on so many Pokemon being unavailable. It's a shitshow either way. GF should have just made this a new game with no old pokemon sans Pikachu and Charizard. The public would have hated it but would have had months to process it and then build hype for the new pokes being introduced.

I think I'd rather Reviewers be harsh and take a whole point from the score based on this fiasco. At times it seemed like a bait and switch.
 

Fj0823

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,206
Costa Rica
well based on the other thread with the the poll we have, i think you are the one who will still be the most upset in the end
Classy.

But no, the fact that people "don't care" on a gaming enthusiast forum doesn't mean much. Hell I don't even expect some sort of grand outrage, just a general feeling of disappointment from casuals at what otherwise looks like a well made game. A sort of annoyance at the fact that the free mobile game has more Pokemon than the $60 one.

Not unlike many posts from casual Pokemon players here

That feedback reaching GF even harder is what I count on.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
4,835
Arizona
I wonder how big of a deal this will be to the reviewers and if that will be the turning point for GAMEFREAK to change whatever philosophy they adopted for this Gen.

They promptly ignored the initial backlash and argued that this is how things will be from now on, but I can see the reviews changing their stubborn minds.
I genuinely don’t think reviewers will even touch it.

I also think that at worst the impact will be the potential sales going from getting the Switch boost and likely surpassing Gen 4 as the best selling post-Gen 2 release, in the 18-20 million range, to settling at the series standard 16 million, so GameFreak will continue as though no one cares.
 

ZeroMaverick

Member
Mar 5, 2018
172
So you people are saying that it is confirmed somehow that when Diamond and Pearl remakes come out in a year (if they exist at all) there will be no way to bring this dex into that game? Because that's how Pokemon games have worked for...forever. In Silver and Gold, you could take pokemon from Red and Blue. You're saying it's confirmed that this will not be possible? How? Where? I didn't see that. It just seems like that's how Pokemon has always been. Idk.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,603
Brooklyn, NY
That feedback reaching GF even harder is what I count on.
Well the feedback did if Masuda himself had to speak out. Along with being questioned about it over and over in interviews. And now Japan users apparently finding out via the leaks who got cut, there should be some interesting reactions in the next few weeks.

I don't think the series game wise ever featured this kind of vocal backlash. Though with social media it spread even faster. All I can see happening is bad word of mouth, and ongoing anger directed towards Gamefreak/community when the next roster is decided for the next game going forward. Rinse and repeat.

Interesting times lie ahead.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,835
Arizona
So you people are saying that it is confirmed somehow that when Diamond and Pearl remakes come out in a year there will be no way to bring this dex into that game? Because that's how Pokemon games have worked for...forever. In Silver and Gold, you could take pokemon from Red and Blue. You're saying it's confirmed that this will not be possible? How? Where? I didn't see that.
Literally when the cuts were announced. That’s WHY the cuts were announced, BECAUSE it was such a huge departure. Why did you think people were upset this whole time?