This actually hurts because I feel like red here.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, at least the memes around this shitshow have been amazing. LOL
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[OPEN SPOILER] Now that the entire Sword/Shield Pokédex leaked, let's mourn the Pokémon that got Thanos-snapped by Game Freak [SEE STAFF POST]
- Thread starter Deleted member 31092
- Start date
Seriously, why do people assume people who haven't turned on the game suddenly will?
I don't think it will make any impact on sales, but will help keep lights on this issue. We've seen a few people who were like "who cares if shit like dunsparce or maractus gets cut" come into this thread saying stuff like "how could they cut bulbasaur?!" (which I honestly found rather satisfying.)
So yeah, once people understand that it's not what they consider "bloat" that got cut but major favorites, maybe the purge will be get attention going forward.
To be honest it doesn't matter currently if this will effect sales, this is effecting the game's image and the company's brand pretty strongly. I typed "sword shield" into google just so I could get to the site for a reference for a piece of art I'm working on, and almost half of what I was hit with in the first few headline of results is negative, I don't even have to go here, or reddit or twitter, I can literally type the games into google just to see what my buying options are and be hit with a ton of negativity. No sane company would want those kind of results, at this point you would literally be relying on the "consume media" meme to maintain sales. They can't ignore this.
Yeah this is an instance where ever since it was revealed in Treehouse, GF has not been able to keep this under the rugs at all. Compare and contrast with stuff like the Battle Frontier issue in ORAS, and lack of post-game in XY. People kept bringing it up, which in turn resulted in consistent negativity. It's a lot worse than Gen VI had, that's for sure.
Ugh, I don't know why I went into that Gamefreak low morale thread when I knew it was just going to be wall to wall comments browbeating fans for having criticisms of Gamefreak or the direction they're going in. The review/sale thread is going to suck.
Won't somebody think of the multi-billion dollar company that's going to do just fine no matter what? As if anyone calling them 'lazy' or whatever is going to hurt their bottom line one iota. I personally wish nothing but the best for people at Gamefreak, nor do I think they are lazy or should be replaced as developers of the IP. I've never liked any of that particularly harsh rhetoric anyway. I do want something better out of their games, but this isn't a personal grudge against the people working there.
Obviously attacking individuals apart of the company is really goddamn stupid and is something I've hated about the criticism since day one. Cause outing Masuda isn't going to fix any problems with the series just as much as outing Turner would. Trying to make a scapegoat out of any of the workers there is dumb.
I'm starting to regret having ever gotten invested in this series for how miserable it's been this past year. And, yeah, I know being upset about video game nonsense is fucking cringy but whatever. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that Pokemon is something I've always held near and dear to my heart, as dumb as that is.
I've always tried to find some humor in all of this but, meh. I decided not long after the original explosion about the Pokemon cuts to avoid Pokemon discussions because it was getting me down, but the leaks drew me back in and then the news that the cuts were even greater than expected hit. I kinda wish I had remained out of it, but it felt like the right time to speak up again. I'm sure there are several people watching this thread who are glad to have someone like me shutting up again, but eh, what can you do. I genuinely hope you enjoy your game and that it's everything you wanted a home console Pokemon game to be. I wish I could be in your place right now, absolutely stoked for a new Pokemon game coming out within a week. It's a great feeling and I'm going to miss it.
Hopefully I'm not being too much of a toxic pissbaby in this post, buuut I probably am LOL. I apologize if I've ever let my frustrations get the better of me and was a dick to anyone at any point. I already messed up with that one post about Serebii, but I hope I was able to make up for it.
I'll fuck off now with one final joke just to end on an upbeat note. Remember, kids. Don't ever let your obsessive personality get you overly invested in a children's monster collecting game. Just be a fan of Charizard and you'll be set for life. lul
Won't somebody think of the multi-billion dollar company that's going to do just fine no matter what? As if anyone calling them 'lazy' or whatever is going to hurt their bottom line one iota. I personally wish nothing but the best for people at Gamefreak, nor do I think they are lazy or should be replaced as developers of the IP. I've never liked any of that particularly harsh rhetoric anyway. I do want something better out of their games, but this isn't a personal grudge against the people working there.
Obviously attacking individuals apart of the company is really goddamn stupid and is something I've hated about the criticism since day one. Cause outing Masuda isn't going to fix any problems with the series just as much as outing Turner would. Trying to make a scapegoat out of any of the workers there is dumb.
I'm starting to regret having ever gotten invested in this series for how miserable it's been this past year. And, yeah, I know being upset about video game nonsense is fucking cringy but whatever. I'd be lying if I didn't admit that Pokemon is something I've always held near and dear to my heart, as dumb as that is.
I've always tried to find some humor in all of this but, meh. I decided not long after the original explosion about the Pokemon cuts to avoid Pokemon discussions because it was getting me down, but the leaks drew me back in and then the news that the cuts were even greater than expected hit. I kinda wish I had remained out of it, but it felt like the right time to speak up again. I'm sure there are several people watching this thread who are glad to have someone like me shutting up again, but eh, what can you do. I genuinely hope you enjoy your game and that it's everything you wanted a home console Pokemon game to be. I wish I could be in your place right now, absolutely stoked for a new Pokemon game coming out within a week. It's a great feeling and I'm going to miss it.
Hopefully I'm not being too much of a toxic pissbaby in this post, buuut I probably am LOL. I apologize if I've ever let my frustrations get the better of me and was a dick to anyone at any point. I already messed up with that one post about Serebii, but I hope I was able to make up for it.
I'll fuck off now with one final joke just to end on an upbeat note. Remember, kids. Don't ever let your obsessive personality get you overly invested in a children's monster collecting game. Just be a fan of Charizard and you'll be set for life. lul
Godspeed CatDoggo. I'm at the point where it's hard for me to let go of this series. Ever since 2013 all I could do is tell myself things would get better, but for me they just feel stagnated, nothing really wows me or gives me the feeling that "this game is going to by my GOTY". So many simple things they could do just to get me back on board. I skipped USUM, got Let's Go used and couldn't even play past Celadon City, and now with the dex cut, it feels like GF is just actively pushing me away from the franchise. But the other side of me can't let it go. I've been playing since Red, I want this series to really improve and give me that sense of wow again on a HD system. Alas all I can do is wait for datamines and the upcoming shitstorm that'll inevitably come from it.
I'm actually a bit curious about how this approach will effect views of newer games in the future. Right now SwSh have the extra novelty in being the first console games in the series but, just looking up some of the most popular search results is concerning. It's sad to see a bunch of popular suggested searches being "is Pokemon x in this game?" "is Pokemon y cut?"
Criticism has always been fine when its well meaning. We both know that's often not the case.
In fact you're doing it here, lets have a look:
"Won't somebody think of the multi-billion dollar company that's going to do just fine no matter what?"
A sarcastic and and naive perspective and an attempted dismissal of the concerns over employee wellbeing. They're not showering the office with cash money when the sales figures come through. Most of the earnings are not going to the average developer working on the game, and none of this is good reason to further peddle that kind of attitude.
When I read comments like how Nintendo should just take "Pokemon away from them" (not going to get into why that makes no sense) all I can interpret that as is "fuck their jobs, give me my videogames". This isn't something you're doing here, but it absolutely happened in that thread.
I love Clefairy but I will cry happy tears when the queen of pink-blob Pokemon returns and gives that stupid little metronoming freak a right good slapping down.
And because I have literally no integrity I'll probably buy the first game she's in and have the pair of them on my team, ensuring that Jigglypuff is always a higher level because she's the bestest one. :P
Staff gets harassed on social media.
A deluge of arm chair developers who don't understand how to do their job telling you them they're either lying, lazy, or manipulative.
News reports delivered in bad faith based on all of this by journalists who can and should be held to a higher standard.
Misinformation shoved out at every opportunity about past titles and current ones.
Won't someone think of the fans, tho???
I don't care what got cut, or what decisions got made. Nothing justifies the behavior that we've seen since this announcement came about. These threads have been inundated with lazy dev rhetoric and bad faith arguments (and unfortunately, I must admit, I made some of them and let my biases affect me). Going "But won't someone think of the corporation?!" like it's baby's first effort at consumer advocacy won't change what's already done, and just like with LGPE, whether or not the game is successful isn't owed to anyone, and people who do celebrate its success - if it happens - are just as justified as you are for being mad about it.
I've talked about getting perspective before, but there's a basic level of decency that hasn't been part of this. You're just gonna have to do what I took too long to learn to do - Deal With It.
A deluge of arm chair developers who don't understand how to do their job telling you them they're either lying, lazy, or manipulative.
News reports delivered in bad faith based on all of this by journalists who can and should be held to a higher standard.
Misinformation shoved out at every opportunity about past titles and current ones.
Won't someone think of the fans, tho???
I don't care what got cut, or what decisions got made. Nothing justifies the behavior that we've seen since this announcement came about. These threads have been inundated with lazy dev rhetoric and bad faith arguments (and unfortunately, I must admit, I made some of them and let my biases affect me). Going "But won't someone think of the corporation?!" like it's baby's first effort at consumer advocacy won't change what's already done, and just like with LGPE, whether or not the game is successful isn't owed to anyone, and people who do celebrate its success - if it happens - are just as justified as you are for being mad about it.
I've talked about getting perspective before, but there's a basic level of decency that hasn't been part of this. You're just gonna have to do what I took too long to learn to do - Deal With It.
Now multiply this by the millions. The dex cut might not affect Sw/Sh, but as soon as its visibly seen by the mainstream user then anything can go.
Noticed this in my feed this morning. Poor girl will be in for a rude awakening lol.
That girl's favorite wasn't likely to be there when she got the game anyway, because past gen starters are rarely available in the base game of a new generation.
I feel like anyone planning to transfer their high level previous starters would know about the roster cuts by now considering they're going to be unusable for most of the game.
Do you believe only gaming enthusiasts transfer over their Pokemon?
Most folks, including most of the people who buy and play these games, are following the news about them outside of the big videos. Until one of these 6 AM Pokemon Youtube vids brings it up, I'm pretty comfortable thinking the vast majority of folks have no idea or are unclear on this.
Yeah and you haven't been able to do that for several months after the initial release for a while now
the point is Bayleef wouldn't have been there day one and this post isn't neccessarily about expecting people to be able to transfer something right away.
And you know, there's some common decency in not using people you don't know as props in an argument.
Watching this post change over time has been amusing.
And again "not right away" is not the same thing as "never".
Oh no, I edited my post as I came up with more to say. And then edited it for clarity and grammar. You've really boxed me into a corner, man.
The point sailed over your head, meanwhile. This doesn't neccessarily mean anything and people shouldn't use other people's social media posts for stuff like this.
The point sailed over your head, meanwhile. This doesn't neccessarily mean anything and people shouldn't use other people's social media posts for stuff like this.
You say that you don't want to be a dick and yet you make a dig towards Charizard's fan?
I am willing to bet that Charizard will probably get the cut in gen 9 and as some who has spent 20 years using Charizard across multiple version across many generations. I am okay if he sits a game out. I will be gutted for sure but eh, I can survive as he's still in past generations will return in future titles.
Having criticism towards a series is fine but when you get to the point of hostility and refuse to listen to reason, then you have become a toxic fan.
This pretty much, I came back to era because I wanted to chat about Pokémon and discuss the hype and build up for the leak.
So far the whole negative has been drowning it out and whole, urgh, "dexit" crowd have shouting and harassing those who are excited for the game as if we have betrayed the fandom.
Doubtful, as in gen 4 you have to see all Pokémon in the Sinnoh dex which required either doing a lot of trades or playing the entire game and fighting every trainers. In gen 5 you had to play the entire game. Gen 6 Bank wasn't accessible till a few month after X and Y launch and Gen 7 wasn't compatible till a few months after launch.
Now while you would eventually gain access to the Pokémon, the point is that there was a period of time that you weren't able to bring them in. This is the same except it's on a game by game bases.
Also I am not trilled on folks digging up twitter post and weaponizing them just to prove their point. It's crass behaviour.
Let me boil it down then. Y'all don't know this woman, you don't know what she is or isn't prepared for, past gens have set a particular precedent for certain things, and it's disrespectful to use the post of someone you don't know this way regardless of where their opinion turns in the end.
This shit doesn't need you to use others as props based on the future opinion you assumed/projected. Making broad statements is one thing. Specific people trying to express excitement to a developer? Not really cool, in my opinion.
This shit doesn't need you to use others as props based on the future opinion you assumed/projected. Making broad statements is one thing. Specific people trying to express excitement to a developer? Not really cool, in my opinion.
Was that the point of the post, given it wasn't in the post originally? Which is kinda why I pointed out the editing. Because it amused me that you found it necessary to add that unnecessary little moralizing shot at other posters for the sake of strengthening your point.
All the legit criticism is going to get lost among petty appeals to emotion and weaponized feels and memes. I'll admit the video of Charizard as Anakin killing younglings made me laugh, but maybe more out of absurdity than anything.
I don't have interest in replying to the rest of this post because I agree that some people do take their criticism a bit too far. However, I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone try to say anyone is wrong for not being upset about this and enjoying/being excited for the game regardless. In fact, I see the opposite far more often. Oftentimes in threads before anyone even posts anything negative at all, people will start talking about "whiners" and how they wish they'd just stop talking in threads, etc.
I agree with this. I admit I was kind of guilty of getting pretty heated about this stuff back in June/early July when the news first dropped, but I think a lot of people go a bit too far with criticism and stuff, and it makes everyone who respectfully has criticism look bad.
If there are specific users in here crossing the line when it comes to criticism feel free to report them. Staff have left guidelines as to what is acceptable. Otherwise you can stop preaching about shit a majority of us haven't done. I think Game Freak has made awful decisions using faulty reasoning. Just because some random shit heads on the internet are crossing the line doesn't suddenly change my opinion nor does it absolve Game Freak of their poor decision making. They absolutely don't deserve to be harassed, but stop talking as if that is equal to or connected with the criticism being expressed in this thread.
Thoughts don't come together all at once. I added that point because I believed it. If you think it was some kind of shot I added just to be disrespectful, that's your preorogative. But I don't think that's what should be done, and I came to that realization as I was thinking about my post, nothing more, nothing less.
In the magical fairy hypothetical scenario where the game does have all Pokémon, she'd have to wait a few months for compatibility to transfer it.
Finding out Bayleef can't appear in real life ? I don't know. She might be upset. She might not and just move on. Choosing to show off Bayleef in a post doesn't mean she's predisposed towards anything. We don't know anything about this person other than she's waiting for SwSh and she likes Bayleef.
seeing somebody like bayleef and having your immediate reaction be "you have to wait for bayleef no matter what idiot"
i just don't understand you man
When you go from discussing a topic directly with specific users to generalized holier-than-thou claims about how the opposition in general is up to no good, you're not really arguing in good faith any more.
Edit: You beat me to it
We just got past the unneeded attacks on Joe and now the other side has to come in to shit the thread back up. Awesome.
So did this not happen? Whether it happened here or it happened elsewhere (and it did happen here, a lot), it was a thing that happened, significantly. I can comment on that fact and how the issue of demoralization on Game Freak's part is valid, and how no one should feel like they're guaranteed an atmosphere or overall response from others. You can't preach about arguing in good faith when there's a large group of people, and I think it's naive to pretend they were so small a group as to be meaningless during this whole mess.
Uh they don't a lot of suggested searches for sword sheild are asking about specific Pokemon in the roster.
If the rumors that the backlash is harming Gamefreak's morale are true, then I do feel sorry for all of the rank-and-file developers (and the contractors), who have likely been subjected to crunch to get Sword and Shield out the door, and who probably didn't have a say in the Dex cut.
On the other hand, I cannot feel any sympathy for Masuda, Ohmori, and the rest of the executives, who have been making poor decisions for years by now, and whom likely made the decision to both cut Pokemon and likely subject the rest of Gamefreak to crunch because they didn't want to delay the games.
And honestly, at this point, if the series is to be good once again, then the backlash is brutal, but necessary.
Both X and Y, as well as Sun and Moon has an 87 on Metacritic, and sold 16 million copies, and B2W2 has an 80 on Metacritic and sold 8 million copies - yet X and Y, as well as Sun and Moon, have had a mixed at best reception within the community, whereas B2W2 are considered by many to be the peak of the series. Does this mean that Black 2's expanded postgame and the inclusion of the PWT were bad decisions? Does this mean that Gen 6 and 7's lack of difficulty were good decisions? In particular, the Lumiose City save glitch really should have been a wake-up-call for Gamefreak, given how crippling it was, and how often it was encountered - yet due to fans trying to excuse X/Y's flaws, rushed development became the norm for the series.
Eventually, however, either Gamefreak will overestimate the fanbase's devotion to the franchise and make a glaring mistake, or all of Gamefreak's little mistakes catch up with them, and the franchise is harmed so badly that it will never fully recover - the "event horizon", as I like to put it. A shining example of this would be Sonic 06 or The Last Jedi - the related franchise can still make money, but it's clear by now that neither Sonic nor Star Wars will ever return to the glory days, even if Sonic makes a BOTW-tier, or if Star Wars makes a Godfather-tier masterpiece. While I'd say that Pokemon isn't yet at that point, even with the National Dex cut, it is difficult to deny that Pokemon is rapidly approaching this event horizon.
Many franchises in decline attempt to salvage themselves by going back to the "glory days", without fully realizing that the "magnum opus" of the series will often have the exact same mistakes as the recent, reviled entry. As an example, Pokemon Black and White was linear like Pokemon Sun and Moon, just not to the intolerable extent that Sun and Moon were.
In the wake of the Sword and Shield leaks, it's clear that Gamefreak desperately needs to go back to the drawing board and determine what works, and what doesn't, before Pokemon turns into the next Sonic. Without criticism, it's very difficult to determine what caused the decline, or even when the decline even began, when down is up, and up is down. And steadying the ship, in this case, will be extremely difficult, painful, and have a high chance of outright worsening the situation.
On the other hand, I cannot feel any sympathy for Masuda, Ohmori, and the rest of the executives, who have been making poor decisions for years by now, and whom likely made the decision to both cut Pokemon and likely subject the rest of Gamefreak to crunch because they didn't want to delay the games.
And honestly, at this point, if the series is to be good once again, then the backlash is brutal, but necessary.
Both X and Y, as well as Sun and Moon has an 87 on Metacritic, and sold 16 million copies, and B2W2 has an 80 on Metacritic and sold 8 million copies - yet X and Y, as well as Sun and Moon, have had a mixed at best reception within the community, whereas B2W2 are considered by many to be the peak of the series. Does this mean that Black 2's expanded postgame and the inclusion of the PWT were bad decisions? Does this mean that Gen 6 and 7's lack of difficulty were good decisions? In particular, the Lumiose City save glitch really should have been a wake-up-call for Gamefreak, given how crippling it was, and how often it was encountered - yet due to fans trying to excuse X/Y's flaws, rushed development became the norm for the series.
Eventually, however, either Gamefreak will overestimate the fanbase's devotion to the franchise and make a glaring mistake, or all of Gamefreak's little mistakes catch up with them, and the franchise is harmed so badly that it will never fully recover - the "event horizon", as I like to put it. A shining example of this would be Sonic 06 or The Last Jedi - the related franchise can still make money, but it's clear by now that neither Sonic nor Star Wars will ever return to the glory days, even if Sonic makes a BOTW-tier, or if Star Wars makes a Godfather-tier masterpiece. While I'd say that Pokemon isn't yet at that point, even with the National Dex cut, it is difficult to deny that Pokemon is rapidly approaching this event horizon.
Many franchises in decline attempt to salvage themselves by going back to the "glory days", without fully realizing that the "magnum opus" of the series will often have the exact same mistakes as the recent, reviled entry. As an example, Pokemon Black and White was linear like Pokemon Sun and Moon, just not to the intolerable extent that Sun and Moon were.
In the wake of the Sword and Shield leaks, it's clear that Gamefreak desperately needs to go back to the drawing board and determine what works, and what doesn't, before Pokemon turns into the next Sonic. Without criticism, it's very difficult to determine what caused the decline, or even when the decline even began, when down is up, and up is down. And steadying the ship, in this case, will be extremely difficult, painful, and have a high chance of outright worsening the situation.
That wasn't her only post. She made posts after that.
Basically, yeah, she knows Bayleef is cut but she's looking forward to the new game anyways because she is excited to meet new Pokémon on a new adventure. She chose Shield because she's excited for the new Ponyta.
So uh... Yeah guys I think she'll be fine. :P
Whhhy am I still doing this.
I said that entirely in jest. I have absolutely no ill will toward Charizard fans.
I said that entirely in jest. I have absolutely no ill will toward Charizard fans.
This the irony is that the entire fandom has been a complete shit show and not a single side wants to own up to it
i will be the voice of reason to say
you're all idiots just let people have opinions on the game and franchise as a whole
we can still come together to publicly shame people who make stupid wrong-headed attacks on twitter
We're all too passionate i feel, lmao.
If anything, it's amazing that we care so much for the games...
But yeah, behavior from both sides have been less than ideal :/ specially those that attacked people from GF directly over social
media.
This is one of those few times where it truly, genuinely is "both sides." I have seen bans handed out for people in both camps. I have been accused of advocating harassment because I said I didn't like the generalizations being stated. I have seen people misunderstanding how game development works and assume that when these games sell millions, all the developers are gonna be really happy and get a big fat check. I'm seeing the same people on both sides starting bullshit.
The fact that I have to couch my criticism in this game every time by saying I don't justify the toxic behavior of others is really tiring. At the same time, some people really have to axe to grind and love to just publicly shit on Joe or start arguments with others over someone simply expressing excitement for the game. I might as well not post in Pokemon threads anymore at this rate. This thread was fun for a couple of days to vent our disappointment, but now it's just the same old shit.
It's nice to see things at least start to mellow out. The inevitable datamine thread is where we'll see if people can keep themselves capable of having a civil discussion regarding what is found. Hopefully it doesn't devolve into personal attacks on either side.