• Introducing Image Options for ResetEra 2.0! Check the left side navigation bar to show or hide images, avatars, covers, and embedded media. More details at the link.
  • Community Spotlight sign-ups are open once again for both Gaming and EtcetEra Hangout threads! If you want to shine a spotlight on your community, please register now.

[OPEN SPOILERS] GAME OF THRONES S8 |*FULL LEAK DISCUSSION*| IT IS KNOWN

Status
Not open for further replies.
Oct 27, 2017
4,859
People LOVE his arc in the books. The show said fuck that lets making him a rapist
he raped cersei in the books though right?
Uh Jaime straight up looks into the camera and says he specifically isnt a good person.
yeah he says that but his action changed a lot since the first season where he was arrogant (although he did save millions by killing the mad king)
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,947
Funny thing is most of the people defending GOT now are Arya, Sasha, and Jon stans, they all have a basic idea of how the final episode will go

Like everyone I've gotten into an argue with about this ether predicts that Arya is going to save the day again or that Jon does and immediately becomes king

I can't wait for there reaction to Arya essentially doing nothing but walk around, and Bran becoming King by doing nothing
I wonder how folks are going to take Bran as king. And that Arya ends up doing nothing in KL of value. Or that Jon's resurrection was all to kill Dany.

God. What a mess.
 
Oct 28, 2017
11,595
I wonder how folks are going to take Bran as king. And that Arya ends up doing nothing in KL of value. Or that Jon's resurrection was all to kill Dany.

God. What a mess.
The lord of light has reason to bring you back!

Honestly what part of Jons storyline wasn't useless to the grand scheme of things? He did nothing against the white, he doesn't want the throne so theres virtually no reason for this to even be an issue, and he kills Dany something that it was clear her advisers were already trying to do. Then Jon peaces out north. Talk about fucking any potential that character had with the main story lines. Gotta subvert those expectations tho
 
Jaime arc in winds

meets lady stone heart

manages to survive encounter but brienne dies

he is enslaved by the brotherhood and forced to help with the 2nd red wedding agianst lannisters and freys in the river lands

he manages to escape after in the chaos and goes back to kings landing

as he makes it to the red keep Cersei is about to blow up the city becuase all her kids are dead and the golden company are sacking the city

Jaime kills her but instead of staying he flees and decides to head north
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,564
Jaime’s an odd one. I’m fine with a character going back on progress. That’s also an arc. But I wish we got more a definitive look into what he feels at the end. Is he convincing the people he’s talking to at the end, Tyrion and Brienne, that he’s actually bad and didn’t care about others? Is he trying to convince himself? Is that what he accepts? Does he feel he’s not worthy of being good and thus reverts? I feel like it’s kind of that Brienne is the kind of knight he feels he’s supposed to strive to be but he knows he’s not deep down. But we don’t get that from him. It almost feels like fighting for the living and going north was more an excuse for him to Knight Brienne and give her closure no matter what it actually said for him.
 
Feb 19, 2018
5,042
Jaime arc in winds

meets lady stone heart

manages to survive encounter but brienne dies

he is enslaved by the brotherhood and forced to help with the 2nd red wedding agianst lannisters and freys in the river lands

he manages to escape after in the chaos and goes back to kings landing

as he makes it to the red keep Cersei is about to blow up the city becuase all her kids are dead and the golden company are sacking the city

Jaime kills her but instead of staying he flees and decides to head north
Now THATS how you conclude an arc, I'd prefer he takes the black. But perhaps too optimistic. I want him to be a beast with a sword I his left hand. There's a character in the book that had almost the exact situation and it's mentioned he's actually better with his left because it messes with people's angles. It's like a lefty in baseball. They're tough because most people are righties . Definite foreshadowing I saw
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,561
The lord of light has reason to bring you back!

Honestly what part of Jons storyline wasn't useless to the grand scheme of things? He did nothing against the white, he doesn't want the throne so theres virtually no reason for this to even be an issue, and he kills Dany something that it was clear her advisers were already trying to do. Then Jon peaces out north. Talk about fucking any potential that character had with the main story lines. Gotta subvert those expectations tho
The only thing I can think of is that Jon was necessary for uniting the North and convincing Dany of the White Walker threat. That's where his usefulness ends.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,946
Germany
The green haired girl in that bar always has the best reactions. Basically just going "wat?" to everything.
Also I swear most of the people in that bar are basically actors by now. It's always the same people in the same spots and they all do these really huge reactions which is what people click the vids for.
 
The lord of light has reason to bring you back!

Honestly what part of Jons storyline wasn't useless to the grand scheme of things? He did nothing against the white, he doesn't want the throne so theres virtually no reason for this to even be an issue, and he kills Dany something that it was clear her advisers were already trying to do. Then Jon peaces out north. Talk about fucking any potential that character had with the main story lines. Gotta subvert those expectations tho
He's there to make sure Daenerys doesn't get it either. Daenerys dies so Bran can be king.

I wonder how folks are going to take Bran as king. And that Arya ends up doing nothing in KL of value. Or that Jon's resurrection was all to kill Dany.

God. What a mess.
Not well.

Because of how the show has executed Bran's character and storyline, the only way they could actually sell it to the casual audience is if Bran was just playing the long game so he could become king.

Why'd he turn down Winterfell? Because he was seeking a larger prize than a castle.

Why did Bran force Sam to tell Jon about his parentage on the eve of the White Walker Battle? Because he needed to cause a rift between Jon and Dany.

Why did Bran not provide more help during the Battle of Winterfell? Because he needed her to exhaust her troops so she'd be forced to take down King's Landing with her dragons.

Why did Bran not tell anyone about Daenerys potentially burning down King's Landing? He needs her to so that the pieces are set in place for Jon to murder Daenerys which then pushes Jon to invalidate his claim by going to the Night's Watch.

And then Bran reveals he's the Lord of Light who used Melisandre to support Stannis so that Stannis would murder Renly and sabotage Stannis' own efforts by thinking he's the messiah.

Basically this is the only way to sell it at this point without it looking random or Tyrion giving some god-tier speech about Bran:

 
Last edited:
Oct 28, 2017
11,595
He's there to make sure Daenerys doesn't get it either. Daenerys dies so Bran can be king.



Not well.

Because of how the show has executed Bran's character and storyline, the only way they could actually sell it to the casual audience is if Bran was just playing the long game and if he was playing 4D chess so he could become king.

Why'd he turn down Winterfell? Because he was seeking a larger prize than a castle.

Why did Bran force Sam to tell Jon about his parentage on the eve of the White Walker Battle? Because he needed to cause a rift between Jon and Dany.

Why did Bran not provide more help during the Battle of Winterfell? Because he needed her to exhaust her troops so she'd be forced to take down King's Landing with her dragons.

Why did Bran not tell anyone about Daenerys potentially burning down King's Landing? He needs her to so that pieces are set in place for Jon to murder Daenerys which then pushes Jon to invalidate his claim by going to the Night's Watch.

And then Bran reveals he's the Lord of Light who used Melisandre to support Stannis so that Stannis would murder Renly and sabotage Stannis' own efforts by thinking he's the messiah.

Basically this is the only way to sell it at this point without it looking random or Tyrion giving some god-tier speech about Bran:

This might make sense in the books. In the show it's coming out of nowhere
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,305
He's there to make sure Daenerys doesn't get it either. Daenerys dies so Bran can be king.



Not well.

Because of how the show has executed Bran's character and storyline, the only way they could actually sell it to the casual audience is if Bran was just playing the long game and if he was playing 4D chess so he could become king.

Why'd he turn down Winterfell? Because he was seeking a larger prize than a castle.

Why did Bran force Sam to tell Jon about his parentage on the eve of the White Walker Battle? Because he needed to cause a rift between Jon and Dany.

Why did Bran not provide more help during the Battle of Winterfell? Because he needed her to exhaust her troops so she'd be forced to take down King's Landing with her dragons.

Why did Bran not tell anyone about Daenerys potentially burning down King's Landing? He needs her to so that pieces are set in place for Jon to murder Daenerys which then pushes Jon to invalidate his claim by going to the Night's Watch.

And then Bran reveals he's the Lord of Light who used Melisandre to support Stannis so that Stannis would murder Renly and sabotage Stannis' own efforts by thinking he's the messiah.

Basically this is the only way to sell it at this point without it looking random or Tyrion giving some god-tier speech about Bran:

Oh, man. That would be pretty awesome. But it has to happen in The Matrix Architect room.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,125
Phoenix, AZ
Sure but the issue here is that even the "snap" was handled poorly. She snapped when the goal she's been working towards was right in front of her, which makes even less sense to be honest.

She won. Cersei lost. The throne was hers. Why did she "snap" then?
Not endorsing the logic, but they mention this in the show. She decided to rule by fear upon realization she will never end up with Jon by her side (among other things) seeing as how she couldn’t portray an idealistic likeable ruler without him.

They dive into this a bit more in Ep4. In the feast scene, we see everyone cheering for Jon, Tormund going as far to only praise him for riding a dragon. Dany realizes no one likes her in Westeros the way they worshipping her in Essos, the way they worship Jon. She needs his likeability to rule.
 
Nov 2, 2017
1,097
Most people just don't get Jaime. They are all about the "redemptive arc" somehow being ignored and carelessly discarded. However that is not the point.

Jaime is generally a good, moral man. Except for the fact that Cercei is in his life. She is forever the Achilles heel- without her he would be the ultimate Lannister- good looking, capable commander, warrior without match, AND possessed of moral values that others in the family lack and would have taken them down a better path- but Cercei who he genuinely and unconditionally loves pulls him into the muck, and is the reason/inspiration/instigator for every stupid, ill advised, or downright evil acts he has carried out. His show ending ultimately is fitting. He could have stayed North and had a good life with Brienne, in a position of honor and prestige, but nope, he literally had to go back to Cercei and go down with her right as the walls figuratively and literally finally came crashing down around her.

Again, the show has problems in pacing, giving things enough time for things to marinade and properly gestate to the audience. As is, things seem too quick/abrupt. But his ending is super fitting for the character.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,125
Phoenix, AZ
Sure but the issue here is that even the "snap" was handled poorly. She snapped when the goal she's been working towards was right in front of her, which makes even less sense to be honest.

She won. Cersei lost. The throne was hers. Why did she "snap" then?
I’m not endorsing the logic, but they mention this on the show. Upon realization she will never end up ruling with Jon by her side, among other things such as losing another dragon and her friend and advisors, she decides to chose “fear” (let it be fear) instead of ruling by being worshipped.

They delve into this more in Ep4. At the feast scene, we see everyone cheering and rooting for Jon for things like... riding a dragon.... with no thanks or care given to Daenerys. People love him the way they worshipped her back in Essos. Dany realizes she will never find that respect here like she did there, and realizes she needs Jon by her side more than ever in order to balance her rule and be loved by her constituents. This scene is vital to adding more context to the fireplace one in Ep5, because otherwise people want to reduce it down to “Jon not fucking her” but there’s more to it than that. Tommen and Margaery were likeble people, and the commoners loved them as it was shown. Dany can’t secure Jon by her side so she chooses to be Cersei and rule by fear instead. She made her choice at the fireplace, so it was more planned and much less a “snap”.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,771
Most people just don't get Jaime. They are all about the "redemptive arc" somehow being ignored and carelessly discarded. However that is not the point.

Jaime is generally a good, moral man. Except for the fact that Cercei is in his life. She is forever the Achilles heel- without her he would be the ultimate Lannister- good looking, capable commander, warrior without match, AND possessed of moral values that others in the family lack and would have taken them down a better path- but Cercei who he genuinely and unconditionally loves pulls him into the muck, and is the reason/inspiration/instigator for every stupid, ill advised, or downright evil acts he has carried out. His show ending ultimately is fitting. He could have stayed North and had a good life with Brienne, in a position of honor and prestige, but nope, he literally had to go back to Cercei and go down with her right as the walls figuratively and literally finally came crashing down around her.

Again, the show has problems in pacing, giving things enough time for things to marinade and properly gestate to the audience. As is, things seem too quick/abrupt. But his ending is super fitting for the character.
If that scene were to happen in the books, you could pretty much guarantee there’d be a “the things I do for love” in his inner monologue right before the ceiling falls in.
 
Apr 12, 2018
3,021
I’m not endorsing the logic, but they mention this on the show. Upon realization she will never end up ruling with Jon by her side, among other things such as losing another dragon and her friend and advisors, she decides to chose “fear” (let it be fear) instead of ruling by being worshipped.

They delve into this more in Ep4. At the feast scene, we see everyone cheering and rooting for Jon for things like... riding a dragon.... with no thanks or care given to Daenerys. People love him the way they worshipped her back in Essos. Dany realizes she will never find that respect here like she did there, and realizes she needs Jon by her side more than ever in order to balance her rule and be loved by her constituents. This scene is vital to adding more context to the fireplace one in Ep5, because otherwise people want to reduce it down to “Jon not fucking her” but there’s more to it than that. Tommen and Margaery were likeble people, and the commoners loved them as it was shown. Dany can’t secure Jon by her side so she chooses to be Cersei and rule by fear instead. She made her choice at the fireplace, so it was more planned and much less a “snap”.
Yea and of course Greyworm and Missandei are nowhere to be found because ???? Gotta make her seem 100% isolated. I also don’t buy for a second that no one in that hall would so much as look at her with a thumbs up . She’s saved their asses TWICE ffs. Also say I buy what they’re selling in that scene, anyone (man or woman) in her position would of course feel hurt but for some reason that’s the point where Varys sees her start to “ lose it”. K. It’s just more forced contrived bs from the writers , their “explanations” post-episode don’t help one bit imo. I need this shit to end, the more I think about the lead up to where we are the more it annoys me
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,125
Phoenix, AZ
Yea and of course Greyworm and Missandei are nowhere to be found because ???? Gotta make her seem 100% isolated. I also don’t buy for a second that no one in that hall would so much as look at her with a thumbs up . She’s saved their asses TWICE ffs. Also say I buy what they’re selling in that scene, anyone (man or woman) in her position would of course feel hurt but for some reason that’s the point where Varys sees her start to “ lose it”. K. It’s just more forced contrived bs from the writers , their “explanations” post-episode don’t help one bit imo. I need this shit to end, the more I think about the lead up to where we are the more it annoys me
Of course it’s contrived. It has to be. It’s too big of a turn to do in 6 episodes, 3 of which weren’t even focused on the crown.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,125
Phoenix, AZ
What happen to hbo filming many scenes so the ending couldn’t be spoiled ? If bran does become king and Jon does stab Danny then damn that’s some extra money they could of saved to actually make more episodes
It sounds like they only filmed the fake scenes, but didn’t send them off to be processed and edited along with the real ones (the money). The leaks we have are mostly coming from post-production.
 
Apr 12, 2018
3,021
So much comes down to “ Wow this would have worked a lot better if we would’ve given some lead up into this”
For example, all the Northmen turning into war criminals last episode. How about a scene of Jon or Tyrion or anyone talking about the rules engagement? Mentioning the “ surrender bells” and then getting push back from the men because of how much they hate the Lannister’s? One poster in a thread mentioned how much even a “Remember the Red Wedding!!! “ from a random guy would’ve helped. But nooooope everyone is a war criminal now save for Jon because reasons.
Then you have people defending it with “Remember this one line from Ser Jorah back in season 3 (six years ago)?!? About men being capable of being ‘beasts’ ? You weren’t paying attention!!!” Uh huh. Why should the creators need to put the work in to show stuff like this to flesh out anyone but the main characters anymore when they have other people to do it for them?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,564
They dive into this a bit more in Ep4. In the feast scene, we see everyone cheering for Jon, Tormund going as far to only praise him for riding a dragon. Dany realizes no one likes her in Westeros the way they worshipping her in Essos, the way they worship Jon. She needs his likeability to rule.
I still find this not terribly convincing. I know it’s what they’re were going for, but it doesn’t work for me. Jon has been shown to be a fairly awful leader because again and again he does what’s right rather than what’s popular. He gets stabbed for it! They have a whole plot line when he’s gone that the north is barely holding together because he even goes to see Dany. Then he kneels to her.

And you can’t point to the battle itself because Jon doesn’t do much. If he had killed the night king I could see that, but he doesn’t. He brought the army together and that’s why show watchers love him but in universe it doesn’t really translate to hero worship the way Dany implies.

Tormund is supposed to represent “the north” loving him in that scene but he’s a fucking wildling who would have wildly different views on Jon solely because of that. In addition he’s one of his closest friends. You may as well have Jon get sad that Missandei is fawning all over Dany!
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,896
Aside from the plot contrivances, I still think the most annoying thing about the show is the whole Night King thing being done away with so quickly. I mean, I don't know how GRRM is going to do it, but it does feel like that should have been the ultimate battle, something greater than men, particularly given its status as such a threat in the past.
 
Oh, man. That would be pretty awesome. But it has to happen in The Matrix Architect room.
After Bran is elected king and Jon has pledged himself back to the Night's Watch, Bran takes into him one of his visions.

He's transported into a blank and empty space. Dramatic moment where Bran gets off his chair.

Jon is suddenly very aware of how much Bran towers over him. Bran puts a hand on his shoulder.

Bran: "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design."

Bran starts showing Jon every instance where he messed with the timeline or had a direct hand in it in order for him to become king.

Varys being cut and the voice in the flames.




Bran whispering in Aerys' ear to "burn them all".



Bran subtly influencing things to get Lyanna and Rhaegar interested in each other.



Bran sending Melisandre's visions to make her think Stannis was the one.

Which culminates in the deaths of Renly, Shireen and Stannis.







And Melisandre resurrecting Jon Snow.



Culminating in Daenerys' murder.
 
Last edited:
Aside from the plot contrivances, I still think the most annoying thing about the show is the whole Night King thing being done away with so quickly. I mean, I don't know how GRRM is going to do it, but it does feel like that should have been the ultimate battle, something greater than men, particularly given its status as such a threat in the past.
Well....there's no Night King in the books. He's show-only so that they could have a face according to GRRM and Benioff+Weiss.

There may not even be a kill-switch that turns them all off.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,771
Aside from the plot contrivances, I still think the most annoying thing about the show is the whole Night King thing being done away with so quickly. I mean, I don't know how GRRM is going to do it, but it does feel like that should have been the ultimate battle, something greater than men, particularly given its status as such a threat in the past.
The Night King isn’t even a character in the books, so he definitely isn’t the endgame for the novels’ version of the ending.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,125
Phoenix, AZ
After Bran is elected king and Jon has pledged himself back to the Night's Watch, Bran takes into one of his visions.

He's transported into a blank and empty space. Dramatic moment where Bran gets off his chair.

Jon is suddenly very aware of how much Bran towers over him. Bran puts a hand on shoulder.

Bran: "Everything that has transpired has done so according to my design, cousin."

Bran starts showing Jon every instance where he messed with the timeline or had a direct hand in it in order for him to become king.

Varys being cut and the voice in the flames.




Bran whispering in Aerys' ear to "burn them all".



Bran subtly influencing things to get Lyanna and Rhaegar interested in each other.



Bran sending Melisandre's visions to make her think Stannis was the one.

Which culminates in the deaths of Renly, Shireen and Stannis.







And Melisandre resurrecting Jon Snow.



Culminating in Daenerys' murder.
We aren’t good enough for this ending.

Although Aerys showing up in a Bran vision in S6? is still suspect, especially after learning the dragon flying to the Red Keep in his vision literally happens. Hopefully we get more regarding his powers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,929
If Dany flies away still alive... damn, maybe the faked death scenario might be possible after all.

It would definitely be a huge crowd-pleaser. Especially if she meets with Jon beyond the wall. I don't think I'd like it, unless they could feasibly make Dany's actions seem less egregious. But, it'd be one hell of a way to break the wheel.

"You gave up your crown for your people. Would she?" I'd wager not, but that might be foreshadowing. And that Jenny song.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.