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[OPEN SPOILERS] GAME OF THRONES S8 |*FULL LEAK DISCUSSION*| IT IS KNOWN

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Oct 28, 2017
11,735
People already have an out with stuff like that “redo” petition, or “fans” attempting to harass D&D. The talk will shift away from the quality of what we got and instead seek to discredit/ attack the character of the “haters”. I’m seeing it way too much already. Even TLJ discussions had people going back and forth with actual points. This...it’s just gotten so petty and personal already
The difference being they wont have critics on their side for this.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,878
Jon is ice and fire. Stark + Targ

Which is even more hilarious that this plays not a single role in any of the end plot points.

Also I read that summary and I fail to see how this isn't viewed as one of the worst finales of all time. Like that shit is BAD
The one thing I'm taking some solace in is that they've ruined the show so completely, I'll never, ever be tempted to rewatch it.
 
Oct 28, 2017
2,179
You see all the season by season viewership numbers and kinda doubt your memory and think, oh this show must’ve started out a little low budge mediocre and really hit its stride after a few seasons before it went off the rails. I’m probably letting my disdain for the dumbassery prop up the shows beginnings a little higher than it deserves.

Nope. I rewatched the first season or so recently, and this series was legit from episode one. The early seasons hold up extremely well. The gaslighting isn’t the people lamenting how good things used to be, it’s the ones saying the show was at its best for episodes like the loot train, and even the Battle of the Bastards, which was completely encircled in meh.

Don’t put that anti-rewatch darkness on the early show. It was everything it could have, and should have, been.
 

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,878
yup, in the end, the writers were tired
I think I'd use the word "lazy". Or perhaps "checked out" would be more accurate.

I just can't imagine what level of hubris it would take to willingly halfass the conclusion to one of the most beloved fantasy franchises of the past century. How fucking arrogant do you have to be to just go 'fuck it, we don't need to try'?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,134
Mexico City
You see all the season by season viewership numbers and kinda doubt your memory and think, oh this show must’ve started out a little low budge mediocre and really hit its stride after a few seasons before it went off the rails. I’m probably letting my disdain for the dumbassery prop up the shows beginnings a little higher than it deserves.

Nope. I rewatched the first season or so recently, and this show was legit from episode one. The early seasons hold up extremely well. The gaslighting isn’t the people lamenting how good things used to be, it’s the ones saying the show was at its best for episodes like the loot train, and even the Battle of the Bastards, which was completely encircled in meh.

Don’t put that anti-rewatch darkness on the early show. It was everything it could have, and should have, been.
As much as I genuinely like those episodes for the spectacle, none of those flashy battles hold a candle to when GoT acting and dialogues were at its best so I agree with you

 
Jon is ice and fire. Stark + Targ

Which is even more hilarious that this plays not a single role in any of the end plot points.

Also I read that summary and I fail to see how this isn't viewed as one of the worst finales of all time. Like that shit is BAD
Was he though?

I think people hyped Jon too much and expected some endgame where it’s revealed that was the main hero of the saga where he did everything single-handedly. This wasn’t that type of escapist series.

Classical heroes like Robb and Jon were consistently fed to the grinder.

Jon’s parentage only exists to destroy him as a person.
 

JJDubz

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
378
I'll just tell myself that the Others were high-tailing South due to the actual Northern threat, drink some milk of the poppy, and drift away.
Does anyone think someone will say the phrase "a song of ice and fire" in dialogue in the final episode?
"Y'know, Dany, I really am the Song of Ice and Fire *stabs her in the back*."
 
Dec 1, 2017
2,148
Was he though?

I think people hyped Jon too much and expected some endgame where it’s revealed that was the main hero of the saga where he did everything single-handedly. This wasn’t that type of escapist series.

Classical heroes like Robb and Jon were consistently fed to the grinder.

Jon’s parentage only exists to destroy him as a person.
I think t he biggest issue with Jon on the show is that he's not shown to have a lot of agency. Ever since he came back from the dead he's just along for the ride and not really making decisions(aside from killing Dany next episode). So instead of a classical hero who is failed by his own failings, he comes across more as a "Ah geez guys" sort of person.

The books will probably hit the same plot points but come across better in that regard. Jon's parentage is a curse to him, but he is constantly dancing between what he wants to do and what he thinks is his duty(his guestright shenanigans with Alys were such a beautiful loophole, even if uh the night's watch probably didn't like it) and him choosing to do his duty and killing Dany in the books will feel a lot more natural when it's done after thousands of pages of him fighting between duty and his desires.

In the show Jon comes across as a bit more of a "Hey do something" because he's not really doing a lot. He's still objectively the hero - he brought together the army to kill the Night King, united everyone and will rid Westeros of the genocidal invader Dany.

In my opinion Jon's issue in the show is that everything he does seems more like something he stumbled upon than something he decided to do himself, which is partially due to the show not featuring his internal thoughts and partially because somewhere around season 4 they started to rid him of his humanizing flaws. Show Jon never seems to hesitate about the Winterfell offer while Book Jon is like "I have to see my duty through but goddamn it I have never wanted something so badly in my life" and it is arguably part of his reason for marching south at the end of Dance.

Like Jon is more of a Frodo or even a Hamlet than a Rand, but the issue is less that he didn't do everything single-handedly and more that the show didn't really frame his actions the right way, in my opinion.
 
Oct 26, 2017
2,795
Alrest
Okay here are 2 ideas I thought of:

1- They filmed multiple endings so why don’t they adapt a choose your own adventure ending style for the last episode?

Or

2- Bran showing us next episode the future for the possible candidate to sit on the throne and we see why him on the throne is the best choice for the realm.
 

Kay

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
220
at the 30 minute mark hbo asks us to text in what Dany will do with her prisoners. The highest amount of votes get to choose the ending. Cant complain now nerds
 

bye

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
3,162
Phoenix, AZ
at the 30 minute mark hbo asks us to text in what Dany will do with her prisoners. The highest amount of votes get to choose the ending. Cant complain now nerds
if the whole season worked this way, Jon and Dany would be on the throne together, Sansa would be murdered, Tyrion would ride a dragon, Arya kills Cersei wearing Jaime's face, Tormund and Brienne would bang
 
Oct 25, 2017
2,154
I think I'd use the word "lazy". Or perhaps "checked out" would be more accurate.

I just can't imagine what level of hubris it would take to willingly halfass the conclusion to one of the most beloved fantasy franchises of the past century. How fucking arrogant do you have to be to just go 'fuck it, we don't need to try'?
Checked out. Absolutely. There's evidence of this. They said they didn't need as many episodes as HBO were willing to give them.

Also, people keep complaining about the characters but honestly? They've all kinda become one dimentional. That's the goddamn problem. Jon Snow doesn't learn shit. Tyrion makes one mistake and welp, now all he does is just doubt himself and be an idiot. Jamie has the most obvious redemption arc of all time and, well, NOPE. Etc.

Plus, there's the desire to end all the character arcs instead of letting them end naturally. Euron is a perfect example. He should have gotten murdered by Dany but somehow, he got to shore and fought Jamie? Why. Why!??! So stupid and unnecessary
 
Oct 27, 2017
2,772
As much as I genuinely like those episodes for the spectacle, none of those flashy battles hold a candle to when GoT acting and dialogues were at its best so I agree with you

Which is ironic because that never happened in the books, Jaime actually was kept at Riverrun the entire time
 

pld

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,113
I have never been a fan or liked Dany but the way they handled her character in the last episodes of this season hurts even me. As a Dany fan I would be furious now.

Also I think it's funny how Tyrion tries to turn Jon against Dany just to send him to the Night's Watch when he kills her.

Tyrion: "Someone gotta stop Dany, she is mad."
Jon: "I have killed her."
Tyrion:
 
Aug 20, 2018
4,369
Does anyone think someone will say the phrase "a song of ice and fire" in dialogue in the final episode?
Emmy Winning dialogue leaked from the final scene of the final episode

Dany: "You know Jon...we are really were a song of ice and fire."

Jon: "I know. A Game of thones has been played for far too long."

Dany: "Yes, the tolls due to a Clash of Kings had been far too big."

Jon: "Not to mention the number of folks killed from a Storm of Swords."

Dany: "What about your brothers from the Night's Watch? When are you giving them a Feast for Crows?"

Jon: "Hmm...I think I will do that after i had a Dance with Dragons."

Dany: "Oh Jon..........hold me...embrace me within your arms in the Winds of Winter."

Jon: "Seven Hells...by the old gods and New....blood of my blood....looks like i'll be having a Dream of Spring tonight."

Dany: "You know nothing, Jon Snow."

Jon: "Aye."
 
Apr 12, 2018
3,040
Their side? So liking the show is a declaration of war now?
Let’s play a game ok? It’s called
“You can of course like the show! But try liking it while doing all of the following:
- Not accusing people who dislike it of being “miserable” / “ angry nerds” who are “losing their minds” when most are simply talking about it on a message board
- Not lumping everyone who doesn’t like the shows direction into the “ TOXIC GOT fanbase” that does things like petition for changes to the story
-Not lumping everyone who doesn’t like the shows direction into the “ TOXIC GOT fanbase” that does things like attempt to personally harass D&D
- Not shitposting memes/gifs of babies crying, etc. in response to actual well thought out points people are coming with
- Not disingenuously dismissing people who view some D&D’s writing as being problematic I.e. “racist/sexist/ homophobic” as doing so out of sheer malice. Especially when they constantly provide examples of said problematic writing. You’re especially good at this one sweetie.

I could go on but you get my point. That petition thread earlier was eye opening in the worst way.
 

Kain

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,160
The more I think about Dany going batshit crazy the least sense it makes other than shock factor. Like, you can put a little exchange between Cersei and Qyburn (it's not like they had a lot of lines this season lol) saying how there are stashes of wildfire around the city, then cue evil smirk by Cersei. Dany comes, burns a bit the Lannister soldiers and oops, chain reaction. Dany is in panic trying to put out the fires but all people see is the dragon so there you go, fear. She then should burn Cersei to a crisp because that's what she deserves, if not worse. That she got to die tragically with his brother bothers me almost more than anything else.

Then in the next episode Dany is panicking and saying how she failed and begs Jon to end her misery in a speech full of regret and sentiment. Drama, there you go.

How can you be so lazy and fucking bad writer to imply than the North loves Jon because of a fucking speech from a drunk wildling after a victory??? His claim to anything is weak and lies on the robot kid and Sam, damn it, he's no threat. Nothing makes sense
 
Jul 24, 2018
6,854
Let’s play a game ok? It’s called
“You can of course like the show! But try liking it while doing all of the following:
- Not accusing people who dislike it of being “miserable” / “ angry nerds” who are “losing their minds” when most are simply talking about it on a message board
- Not lumping everyone who doesn’t like the shows direction into the “ TOXIC GOT fanbase” that does things like petition for changes to the story
-Not lumping everyone who doesn’t like the shows direction into the “ TOXIC GOT fanbase” that does things like attempt to personally harass D&D
- Not shitposting memes/gifs of babies crying, etc. in response to actual well thought out points people are coming with
- Not disingenuously dismissing people who view some D&D’s writing as being problematic I.e. “racist/sexist/ homophobic” as doing so out of sheer malice. Especially when they constantly provide examples of said problematic writing. You’re especially good at this one sweetie.

I could go on but you get my point. That petition thread earlier was eye opening in the worst way.
Sounds like you're lumping everyone who likes the show into one big group. And if that's what were doing, the group that dislikes the show posts an awful lot of shitposts and memes and regularly implies those who like it of being stupid in various different ways.

And to the last point, I didn't say that person's intent was malicious. I said they're trying to paint D&D as malicious. Either the person who made that argument or the one who linked me to it literally said D&D deserve to burn in hell and made it clear they have an axe to grind with them. Combine that with blatantly stripping context away from the medieval history background of the show (men in power, men's power over women in the dark ages, etc) and deliberately interpreting scenes in a particular way to fit their argument, yeah, I can comfortably say they weren't looking to give the benefit of the doubt in any way. They wanted to twist writing that could easily be interpreted as simply taking shortcuts or short sighted with its imagery into definitive proof that these guys are the worst fucking things you can accuse a human being of.
 
Apr 12, 2018
3,040
Sounds like you're lumping everyone who likes the show into one big group. And if that's what were doing, the group that dislikes the show posts an awful lot of shitposts and memes and regularly implies those who like it of being stupid in various different ways.

And to the last point, I didn't say that person's intent was malicious. I said they're trying to paint D&D as malicious. Either the person who made that argument or the one who linked me to it literally said D&D deserve to burn in hell and made it clear they have an axe to grind with them. Combine that with blatantly stripping context away from the medieval history background of the show (men in power, men's power over women in the dark ages, etc) and deliberately interpreting scenes in a particular way to fit their argument, yeah, I can comfortably say they weren't looking to give the benefit of the doubt in any way. They wanted to twist writing that could easily be interpreted as simply taking shortcuts or short sighted with its imagery into definitive proof that these guys are the worst fucking things you can accuse a human being of.
Like most things about this show now, I’ll just agree to disagree on this. The last time I read the “ people are stupid” bs was back in episode 3.
With Episodes 4,5 people don’t need ad hominem , they’re too busy detailing what they found wrong with the show.
Just look at that petition thread and the amount of people trolling and shitposting with zero actual thought. There is zero defense for some of the stuff being said in there in reference to people who dislike the show in its present form. The amount of vitriol is firmly coming from one “ side” vs. the other. It is incredibly petty and mean spirited.
 
Nov 5, 2017
8,405
How many o
I have never been a fan or liked Dany but the way they handled her character in the last episodes of this season hurts even me. As a Dany fan I would be furious now.

Also I think it's funny how Tyrion tries to turn Jon against Dany just to send him to the Night's Watch when he kills her.

Tyrion: "Someone gotta stop Dany, she is mad."
Jon: "I have killed her."
Tyrion:
I mean Jon probably would have gone to the north anyway even without the punishment. He has no desire to have the throne
 
Jan 24, 2019
1,000
i woke up and thought about it


i’m not watching this episode

that sounds meh as fuck. someone tell me if the music is fire and if night queen dany happens at the end
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,407
How can you be so lazy and fucking bad writer to imply than the North loves Jon because of a fucking speech from a drunk wildling after a victory???
The same way you show a character is smart by having another character say they're "the smartest person I know" rather than actually show them doing smart stuff.
 
Oct 27, 2017
3,801
It’s crazy to me how small the world of Game of Thrones is now. At some point you can let go of the plot holes and stuff but it’s terribly disappointing how they stopped all pretense of this being a fleshed out lived in world.
 
Jan 24, 2018
1,777
Jon is ice and fire. Stark + Targ

Which is even more hilarious that this plays not a single role in any of the end plot points.

Also I read that summary and I fail to see how this isn't viewed as one of the worst finales of all time. Like that shit is BAD
I figured a Song of Ice and Fire refers to White Walkers and Dragons respectively.
 
Feb 28, 2018
1,784
Song of Ice and Fire could be referring to the two existential threats to Westeros - the NK and the Long Night and the Targaryen dynasty making a return to power.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,556
In the leaks, is it just me or Tyrion seems to have a lot of power to tell Grey Worm what's what... For a self professed traitor who resigned his hand position and was condemned to Death by his Queen that is.
 
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