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Opinion:People arrested for using heroine/drugs should not be jailed if this is a consequence of opioid prescription given by a therapist

fireflame

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,275
I saw a documentary in French stating that 80% of opioids were bought by Americans, and that only 17% of addicted people were able to withdraw.

In addition to this often drags people into misery and sometimes a prison, as when they can't have opioids, they get heroin. I have always been against drugs like heroin or cocaine, but I believe that in this case, the government and the laboratories are guilty and that rather than being sent to jail they should be given...a completely paid by state journey into a center that would help them. Those people believed their therapists, who pledged to be honest to their patients, some therapists were genuinely honest but manipulated by laboratories, and others were greedy and evil..

The cop who arrested the young man in the documentary said "it could have happened to anyone including me" , yet the young man is jsent to jail, he was a good studen, got a bad inury while doing sport, was given opioids, became homeless.

The hardest thing to understand is why the therapists were not smart enough to use other painkillers, as there are things like paracetamol or other medicaments that are not opioids, I know that in France, many injuries are not trated with opioids and it works. But apparently now laboratories sued in USA are trying to infiltrate us,as well as Africa and South America.
 
nsilvias

nsilvias

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,775
opiods are given out in america because doctors are pressured by the drug compaines to give it out.
 
jb1234

jb1234

Very low key
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,231
nsilvias said:
opiods are given out in america because doctors are pressured by the drug compaines to give it out.
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Not really true anymore. The DEA has gotten so aggressive that doctors are terrified of prescribing them and many people with chronic conditions are being forced to suffer needlessly.
 
CopperPuppy

CopperPuppy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,636
nsilvias said:
opiods are given out in america because doctors are pressured by the drug compaines to give it out.
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Lol "pressured"????

Incentivized is absolutely apropos here, and also no longer applicable given reverse incentives not to do so

On-topic: using shouldn't be grounds for incarceration, period. Jailing drug users and addicts makes no sense by any definition or stated purpose of criminal justice.
 
Vincent Alexander

Vincent Alexander

Member
Oct 26, 2017
19,758
Helio said:
I'll go even further and say no one should be jailed for using drugs
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I agree, but have to ask...how do you deal with people whose drug addiction has made them a danger to others? And some of these people would consider any kind of forced rehab a prison sentence? I genuinely have no idea. This isn't rhetorical.
 

Oddish1

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,819
Not sure how universal this is, but in my experience doctors and therapists are actually incredibly reluctant to prescribe pain medication. Especially opioids.
 
GalvoAg

GalvoAg

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,385
Dallas
Shouldn't be jailed for using drugs, only if you harm others while on them or actions to get said drugs.

I work in loss prevention and about half of the people I app are addict's. It's a bad cycle down here with plant workers getting hurt on the job and eventually getting hooked. It's sad but for the most part in the area it's the only job with a damn if you didn't get a degree.
 
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House_Of_Lightning

House_Of_Lightning

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
5,048
Vincent Alexander said:
I agree, but have to ask...how do you deal with people whose drug addiction has made them a danger to others? And some of these people would consider any kind of forced rehab a prison sentence? I genuinely have no idea. This isn't rhetorical.
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Someone going to jail for drug abuse isn't the same thing as going to jail for assault. Or robbery. Or anything similar.
 
DisasterMaster

DisasterMaster

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
551
They shouldn't be jailed fo-
Helio said:
I'll go even further and say no one should be jailed for using drugs
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TaySan said:
No should be jailed using drugs. Period.
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LookAtMeGo said:
Throwing people in jail for using drugs is the dumbest shit
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Blue Sky Noise said:
They shouldn't be jailed for drug use, period.
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Looks like y'all have it covered already
 
Darth Karja

Darth Karja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,401
jb1234 said:
Not really true anymore. The DEA has gotten so aggressive that doctors are terrified of prescribing them and many people with chronic conditions are being forced to suffer needlessly.
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My wife's Dr refuses to give them out at all.

I barely even use the ones my Dr prescribed me. I'm afraid that I'll get addicted, so I only use them at work if I really need them, and Marijuana any other time that I'm not at work.
 
Acorn

Acorn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,972
Scotland
Oddish1 said:
Not sure how universal this is, but in my experience doctors and therapists are actually incredibly reluctant to prescribe pain medication. Especially opioids.
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Yep, I basically had to fight them. Chronic pain in my shoulder, it dislocated so much they had to reconstruct the socket and put 4 pins in. People thinking I'm just trying to get high or something.

Oh and 3 or 4 bonegrafts. Won't give me a replacement because they only last 20 years and I'm too young, so basically fucked for the next 30 years. And the surgeon said if I have another seizure everything in my shoulder could just fuck up again. I've got epilepsy lol.

I'm just bitching now lol
 
LL_Decitrig

LL_Decitrig

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
10,334
Sunderland
If you're in favour of this opinion, the most effective way to see it implementedis to campaign against mandatory minimum sentences and "three strike" laws that remove discretion from the judge and force the passing of inappropriate custodial sentences.
 
TheClaw7667

TheClaw7667

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,705
Oddish1 said:
Not sure how universal this is, but in my experience doctors and therapists are actually incredibly reluctant to prescribe pain medication. Especially opioids.
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I am on pain medication long term. Been on Oxycontin for about 13 years. The opioid crisis is making doctors absolutely terrified to give them to anyone. I had a NP tell me that you become addicted to them with one pill. I've been compared to addicts that buy from the street (Not once have I done that). I have seen a doctor that specializes in addiction medicine tell me that I should be taken off the medication to suffer in pain to prevent becoming an addict. In her mind it was better for me to spend every waking moment trying to get relief from other means than to take medication that takes it away and allows me to live a somewhat normal life.

All of this with absolutely no signs of addiction. I've been on the same dose for 10 years now. Thankfully, there are still doctors that do believe that not everyone is a lying drug addict that takes pain medication but it feels like that is becoming incredibly rare. Unfortunately that is leaving people that truly need pain medication to suffer needlessly or spend every moment awake trying to reduce their pain.

The most fucked up part about all of this is most insurances will cover pain medication forever but every other method that doctors want people to use for pain relief, be it physical therapy, acupuncture, massage therapy, CBT etc. all has a limit of how much they will cover in a year. So while they want you to use other means of pain relief, most people can't afford those options.
 
hydrophilic attack

hydrophilic attack

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,460
Sweden
that sounds like a weird half measure

either you send every drug user to prison or none of them

this just sounds like a way to be able to keep sending black drug users to prison while allowing white drug users to get off. the much more logical and consistent policy would be to stop sending people to prison for drug use at all.
 
kittens

kittens

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,237
no one should ever be jailed for drug use. and ideally the prison industrial complex wouldn't exist at all.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
People who do drugs shouldn't be jailed period. It's a reverse snowball effect that's unhelpful to everyone except prisons themselves.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
How about we don't jail anyone for drug use of any kind? Opioids aren't special, addiction is the same disease regardless of substance. It is shameful that our society tries to deal with a health crisis using incarceration.
 
DirtyLarry

DirtyLarry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,112
Helio said:
I'll go even further and say no one should be jailed for using drugs
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This. So much this.
jb1234 said:
Not really true anymore. The DEA has gotten so aggressive that doctors are terrified of prescribing them and many people with chronic conditions are being forced to suffer needlessly.
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Also this. Unfortunately my mother has been using painkillers for an incredibly long time. She has a really messed up spine. She was actually in some medical journals about 15 years ago as it was one of the most severe cases the doctors had seen. They proposed some crazy obscure spinal fusion surgery that had a 10% mortality rate (meaning 1 in 10 people who they attempted it on died) and only a 30% success rate of even curing the issue. Or she could choose to take painkillers the rest of her life and live with the pain. She chose the latter as she was scared shit of the surgery and also I will be real, the cost even with insurance was astronomical.

Fast forward to the last half a year, her doctor has been dramatically cutting down on the same prescription she has taken for the last 10+ years every single month she has to see him. And when I say dramatically, I mean dramatically. Literally offering no alternative, just "sorry," this is your new reality. Her condition has not improved and only deteriorated. If anything let's be real, she probably needs more as she has grown a tolerance to it and it keeps getting worse. Her spine is literally collapsing on her organs. It is really fucked up beyond belief. There are people who legitimately need them like my mother, and because of all the fuckery that has gone on with fucked up doctors handing them out like candy, people like my mother get fucked.
 
bunbun777

bunbun777

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,801
Nw
It should all be legal. Our societies need help and punishment isn't helping. We need to treat all drug addiction for what it is, not a crime but a sickness.
 

Deleted member 11413

User requested account closure
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Oct 27, 2017
22,961
Vincent Alexander said:
I agree, but have to ask...how do you deal with people whose drug addiction has made them a danger to others? And some of these people would consider any kind of forced rehab a prison sentence? I genuinely have no idea. This isn't rhetorical.
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People who suffer from addiction aren't inherently dangerous. Sometimes addicts go to desperate lengths to feed their addiction, but by treating the illness before things get desperate that behavior can be avoided. Ideally you would have them receive drug rehabilitation through a reputable program administered by licensed therapists and psychiatrists.
 

Deleted member 31817

Nov 7, 2017
30,876
BringBackSonics said:
I was about to say, in every hospital system I've worked in this is a massive no-no. Really the best doctors will get is a free Chinese Buffett lunch and some pens to hear about a new drug.
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Yeah the idea that doctors are incentivized to prescribe addictive drugs is a weird one. I mean maybe shitty individual out practice doctors, but as far as hospitals and stuff?

Ehhh
 
wafflebrain

wafflebrain

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,238
I really hope all the various lawsuits states have filed against Purdue Pharma (Oxy maker) will also lead to states creating systems like you mention OP for rehab for those that turn to schedule I substances. Grew up next to a guy that never seemed like the addictive personality type, typical straight A popular guy in school, sharp wit and was always super nice to everybody. Fell in with a crowd that did Oxy recreationally and that was that, had to drop out of college and move back home. Talking to him after he went through rehab a second time was like talking to a different person entirely, his attention span was shot and he could barely hold a conversation beyond a few beats :/
 
DocTarHeel

DocTarHeel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
88
Verelios said:
I think this post is missing an explanation.
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I'm a physician. We don't get any extra "kickback," compensation, or other incentive for prescribing narcotics. In fact, its the opposite and we are heavily disincentivized from prescribing them. In my state, all narcotic prescriptions are monitored and logged into a database. We recently passed a law that requires several extra steps before narcotics can be prescribed (including reviewing the database) and limiting the initial prescription to no more than 5 days worth of pills. You can lose your medical license (and several physicians have) for inappropriately or overprescribing narcotics.

It is true that in the late 90s and early 2000s, physicians felt pressured to "over treat" patient's pain leading to increasing narcotic prescriptions, but that was more of a managed care / government / regulatory body issue than a big pharma issue and those days are long past in any case.
 
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