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OPINION: Red Dead Redemption 2 on PC is exactly the reason why some people still HATE gaming on PC

Launchpad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,353
Yea I didn't say it wasn't fucked elsewhere but keep going with your snarky bullshit. I answered a question.

PC gaming can be a hassle of shit to do before you start a game. It's always for a better game but that doesn't mean it's not fucking annoying to do. If you don't agree you're likely as big of a fanboy as those you loathe so much. Or maybe you LIKE downloading 6GB+ Witcher 3 mods from Nexus' slow as shit 100kb/s download site.

I love how the second you say something on PC isn't literally fucking heaven you get these posts. It's like the Switch in that regard.
I never said there wasn't more effort involved. Of course there is. But you ARE being disingenuous here. You don't have to do those things to play Fallout: New Vegas in the same way as consoles and what are you even on about Witcher 3 mods? You could just not download mods. Your arguments here involve things that you literally do not have to do.

Paint me as a fanboy if you like, but PCs are harder but how difficult they are is fucking insanely overblown.
 

Flappy Pannus

Member
Feb 14, 2019
217
Yeah I'm of the camp that PC usability is not nearly where it should be for gaming in general, but come on, Fallout 3/New Vegas is an incredibly disingenuous example. Yes, there's a lot of work involved to get it going, but if anything I would point to them as an example of the strength of the PC platform - there's just such a massive mod community for those games it completely transforms them. Fallout 3/NV modded are just not the same games on PC as they are on console. Yes you can boot them and play them on console, but...why would you in 2019? They look and act every bit of their age - not the case with a nicely modded PC setup.
 

Tya

Member
Oct 30, 2017
915
Now we have a guy crying about downloading optional mods for Witcher 3. This thread is great.
 

Igniz12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,247
Now we have a guy crying about downloading optional mods for Witcher 3. This thread is great.
They are not crying because of having to download optional mods. They are crying because of the loss of innocence. No longer can he go to twitter and cry to Sony playstation and have them fix his problems. He has gotta be a grown up PC gamer now, he has got to fix his own goddamn perfomance bugs.
 

RedSwirl

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,806
ID Tech 6 games like Doom Wolfenstein 2 and rage 2 are basically unplayable with this card. You can play Doom at 1080 30 medium/high preset but Doom it's meant to be played at 60 fps or more.
Yeah Doom is why I upgraded to a 1070. The dynamic resolution is what gives consoles the advantage with that game, and honestly that should be the next thing to become a standard feature.



To explain better what I mean with higher resolutions emphasizing problems you can see a similar effect there. Look for example at the nose and the area of the neck, the image overall is a lot more natural looking at its original resolution than rescaled. The one on the right is a low-fi image that still looks nice today. The one of the left is... weird.

The same as people on this forum commenting how some assets like the trees that weren't updated for PC now are more noticeable since they don't quite match the detail of everything else.

They are probably small things you only notice if you pay attention to details, but they are real.

For the texture it's not that the higher resolution brings out problems in the textures themselves, but in relation to the model. A super high res texture applied to a simpler model looks weird. In the console version the lower resolution gives a more natural, smooth overall look. On PC the higher clarity makes the model itself not quite match the texture quality. You can notice that detail is missing.

The same as when you rescale a picture UP from its natural resolution, it looks bad. If you rescale it down it looks great. The higher the display and the resolution, the much higher needs to be the graphic detail too (Apple built the "retina" concept on this). Smaller screens/resolutions get away looking good with much less.

Even the fact that in retrogaming a CRT screen looks immensely better than a super sharp LCD with optimal precision somewhat falls in the same category.

Or even the concept of LOD in all games: if something is up close it requires a high level of detail to look decent, if it's far away it can use a much simpler model, because it's a lot less noticeable. But if you then greatly push up the resolution and screen size, then that simpler LOD starts to stick out and will look bad. Etc...

Last example:






The first looks fine, right? Well the second one is the exact same image. There the higher resolution "brings out the flaws", and it really looks bad.
On the top, the image on the left looks better then the image on the right. Nobody on consoles ever argued that Bleemcast console games looked worse on Dreamcast then Playstation. Even though it did exactly what your top image shows, by cleaning up the graphics. Funny how that works? Only when PC is brought into the equation do console users claim to prefer low resolutions riddled with jaggies.

When it’s about PC, some people start talking out of the side of their neck.
Okay, I kinda agree with Kadath when it comes to certain games, but I don't think the Vagrant Story argument applies to RDR2, or really any game coming out these days playing at practical resolutions. Certainly not Red Dead 2 running at 4K or 60fps or with better textures.

Generally when playing pre-2000 games or even pre-2005 games, I prefer to play them at their original resolution. When I play Doom I play it in Chocolate Doom at an upscaled 240p. I have a CRT specifically for playing PS1 and PS2 games. Even games as recent as say, Rockstar's own GTA San Andreas, lose something when re-rendered at 1080p in my opinion, or at the very least they don't look much better because there's no new detail hidden by the original resolution unless you apply new textures which kinda don't fit the art style of the game. I can see where Kadath is coming from there, but not for RDR2.

Arthur Morgan's character model isn't facing the same issues as Ashley Riot's. Vagrant Story comes from an era when they were working with no texture filtering, at 240p resolution, and 1MB of VRAM. They never imagined that game would ever be presented at like 1080p. RDR2 already runs at 4K on Xbox One X -- Rockstar already accounted for that pixel count. And the ultra PC settings almost certainly are not the leap forward modern texture filtering would be when applied to Vagrant Story. Those are after all textures Rockstar themselves made. We're not talking some fan texture mod here.

Maybe every game from every era does have a resolution beyond which the artists didn't really mean it to be seen, but that resolution for modern games certainly isn't 4K, and probably not 8K either. There's a flickr account somewhere where you can see a bunch of 8K screenshots of modern games and they look great. The only example I've seen where modern games were displayed with a bit "too much" clarity were those Nvidia Ansel gigapixel screenshots of Witcher 3 and Tomb Raider.
 

dishonestjest

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,191
I'm more annoyed that I bought it 3 days ago and still can't play as the launcher fails to initialize every. single. time.

I've done all of the 'fixes' - smfh.
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
3,364
Again we come back to the matter of choice. You don't actually have to do any of the stuff that you mentioned. You can build a custom PC from scratch but you don't have to. You can install Windows and antivirus yourself but you don't have to. You can tweak your games but you don't have to. You can, but you don't have to. It's as simple as that.
Of course. I never said anything about it not being choice. It's absolutely a choice. That doesn't change that PC is TONS more effort.

your claim that problematic performance by and large doesn't happen on console can be disproven in a couple of minutes by linking tons of Youtube videos from Digital Foundry and others showing consoles struggling to properly run games. This sort of myth could be perpetuated back when there weren't gigabytes of footage proving otherwise. Nowadays that claim is simply ridiculous.
This is true too of course, the key difference is that... Console is predictable. You can go on YouTube and find a thousand other people experiencing the same thing. You all sit and wait for a patch.

This happens on PC too, but on PC every single simulation environment is completely unique. A patch may never fix what your issue is. Your issue may be some crazy thing no one's ever heard of... And regardless, you can spend hours tinkering. Then there's also the esoteric knowledge - why your monitor might randomly cut out. You get new speakers and suddenly sound vanishes from everywhere on you OS.

To you and me these issues sound relatively minor and we understand why they happen, but 90+% of people just do not have the time or effort to deal with this shit.

I play mostly on PC, but if something performs well enough on PS4, I honestly prefer playing on that. Yes, I have Steam Link and play from my couch often (it's great).
 
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Scuffed

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,417
It can be a pain in the ass being a pc gamer sometimes but the rewards are worth it. I couldn't play rdr2 as much as I wanted too on the ps4 because of the damn motion blur giving me headaches. I'm playing it now and no problems at all not to mention holy shit it looks good. Far better than it ever looked on my Pro.
 

ImaLawy3r

Member
Jun 6, 2019
192
They are not crying because of having to download optional mods. They are crying because of the loss of innocence. No longer can he go to twitter and cry to Sony playstation and have them fix his problems. He has gotta be a grown up PC gamer now, he has got to fix his own goddamn perfomance bugs.
What? Listen here conflation artists -GENERALLY speaking, if you've got enough money to spend on expensive ass PC's then most likely in the last decade or so you've also come to a point in your life where you appreciate convenience. You've used an UBER, or even ordered on UBER Eats even though the picking it up would have been cheaper and maybe faster. You've probably gotten pissed off when the free Alpha demo of a game was delayed and caused enough of an uproar that publishers extended it to an extra day.

We are living in an era of where everything is convenient and where you don't want to be bothered about bullshit. The era of the iPhone where you just want it to work. Our mentality has shifted. PC just doesn't get it to work right all the time without troubleshooting.

My Dad knows everything about Cars. He knows how to fix them and troubleshoot them. He comes from an era where that was valued. But, now he takes his car to the shop. He doesn't do his oil changes anymore himself because of convenience. I, in turn, knows very little about vehicular repair to begin with because I've lived in a place where if something goes wrong - just take it to the shop. However, I used that time to learn about PCs and constructing them, some light coding, etc. I used to love building PCs and gaming on them. But now? I just want it to work because as a grown ass man - when I want to play games especially with friends I don't want to spend a lot of time figuring things out as to why its not working. I've embraced the idea that troubleshooting is a waste of my particular grown ass time in a world where there are other ways to get something very similar in a less hassled way. Sure PC will always be better than console on very technical levels, but it's just diminishing returns to many grown ass folk who don't build or tweak PCs anymore for fun or as a hobby.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,951
I have a modern gaming laptop. Not saying our experiences will be the same. But, mine haven't been ideal.
There's your problem.

My first real laptop was a gaming laptop. Forget about software, it was super hot, heavy, clunky, unbalanced...gaming laptops are a mess at best, a scam at worst. I know people wanna keep their size profile down and have that portability, but I've seen so many horror stories come out of gaming laptops because their cooling options just aren't up to snuff, or people wanna play games in bed and cover exhaust ports with mattress toppers.

Did you get a Dell? Because dear lord, Dell software, gaming or otherwise, is some hot fucking garbage. Took me 4 hours to get a stupid thunderbolt dock working correctly, and now I don't wanna update the laptop because it might make this dock mess up again.
 
Sep 4, 2019
1,576
New Orleans
I still play old school games on PC because the community is great. Though modern games (even on PC) have done nothing but handicap community features so now it doesn't matter what platform you play on, you're getting the same experience. So I rather play on the platform where I ran into basically zero hardware issues, a console. I'll still buy some games on PC when it makes sense but that's been rare for the last few years.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
550
I have a modern gaming laptop. Not saying our experiences will be the same. But, mine haven't been ideal.
Gaming laptop is your problem. Not being an ass but you're probably talking to people who have a well-built desktop/media PC. Laptops are a different beast. Every gaming laptop I've had was shit.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,951
They are not crying because of having to download optional mods. They are crying because of the loss of innocence. No longer can he go to twitter and cry to Sony playstation and have them fix his problems. He has gotta be a grown up PC gamer now, he has got to fix his own goddamn perfomance bugs.
...I mean, the point is, he shouldn't HAVE to fix his own bugs. PC gaming is a lot of things, but the onus of squashing bugs and finding workarounds for missing settings shouldn't be on the user. Having to edit an .ini file in order to turn off Ambient Occlusion is something that shouldn't have to be done. It's nice that you CAN take measures into your own hands, but even I, someone who mods skyrim for fun, find it unacceptable when something like Monster Hunter World comes out and I can't get it to run without editing 4 different .ini files.
 

ImaLawy3r

Member
Jun 6, 2019
192
Calling it a shit show is absolutely hilarious.
You either build a PC or buy a PC that is has great specs. If you fall into the building the PC, unless you're an enthusiast today it takes a good amount of time to get all the pieces right for the right price you are looking for without ever turning it on. If you fall into the buy a PC that has great specs then you still have to worry about if and when this thing will start degrade and can't play on ultra high settings, etc - like my 1060. https://www.game-debate.com/hardware/index.php?gid=3540&graphics=GeForce GTX 1060

Okay, now that we have that covered - I'll have to upgrade in another 2-3 years to get the quality that other people are playing at for a good chunk of money. We haven't even gotten to the part about figuring out why certain games are crashing for no reason at times or there's some performance issue and you have to do something odd to get it to work. It's just ironically, not optimized.
 

ImaLawy3r

Member
Jun 6, 2019
192
There's your problem.

My first real laptop was a gaming laptop. Forget about software, it was super hot, heavy, clunky, unbalanced...gaming laptops are a mess at best, a scam at worst. I know people wanna keep their size profile down and have that portability, but I've seen so many horror stories come out of gaming laptops because their cooling options just aren't up to snuff, or people wanna play games in bed and cover exhaust ports with mattress toppers.

Did you get a Dell? Because dear lord, Dell software, gaming or otherwise, is some hot fucking garbage. Took me 4 hours to get a stupid thunderbolt dock working correctly, and now I don't wanna update the laptop because it might make this dock mess up again.
I do have a Dell Inspiron with a 1060.
 

ImaLawy3r

Member
Jun 6, 2019
192
Gaming laptop is your problem. Not being an ass but you're probably talking to people who have a well-built desktop/media PC. Laptops are a different beast. Every gaming laptop I've had was shit.
I've built PC from CyberPower PC before. I refuse to go down that road anymore. The thing is - you gotta be in the know at all times I believe to execute the best build for a great PC unit. I don't think there's a lot of folks like that left. Not as many as there used to be at least.
 

ShinUltramanJ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,682
To you and me these issues sound relatively minor and we understand why they happen, but 90+% of people just do not have the time or effort to deal with this shit.
People have the time. They have all the time in the world for fiddling with their phone or binge watching entire seasons of shows on Netflix.
People just don’t want to have to do anything anymore. I can only imagine future threads where hooking up a console is too much effort. They need Google Speaker to start their game on Stadia.
 

Enforcer

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,457
No it's exactly why PC gaming is great. You have all the options.

Once you accept that you can't always max the newest games, it gets better.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,951
I do have a Dell Inspiron with a 1060.
THERE'S your problem.

I don't wanna sound condensending but I know your pain when it comes to Dells and software. I bet yours does the same thing mine does where it constantly fights between whether the onboard GPU and the 1060 is controlling the display right?

I have an XPS9530 with a 960M that I use for light video editing and I've gotten to the point where I've locked down windows updates because it works fine as is, and I don't want it to change because anything from a windows update to a driver update could cause it to shit the bed.

But my gaming rig at home, the one I built myself, it gives me no problems when it comes to software. Even stuff like safe OC's seem really easy.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,122
UK
What? Listen here conflation artists -GENERALLY speaking, if you've got enough money to spend on expensive ass PC's then most likely in the last decade or so you've also come to a point in your life where you appreciate convenience. You've used an UBER, or even ordered on UBER Eats even though the picking it up would have been cheaper and maybe faster. You've probably gotten pissed off when the free Alpha demo of a game was delayed and caused enough of an uproar that publishers extended it to an extra day.

We are living in an era of where everything is convenient and where you don't want to be bothered about bullshit. The era of the iPhone where you just want it to work. Our mentality has shifted. PC just doesn't get it to work right all the time without troubleshooting.

My Dad knows everything about Cars. He knows how to fix them and troubleshoot them. He comes from an era where that was valued. But, now he takes his car to the shop. He doesn't do his oil changes anymore himself because of convenience. I, in turn, knows very little about vehicular repair to begin with because I've lived in a place where if something goes wrong - just take it to the shop. However, I used that time to learn about PCs and constructing them, some light coding, etc. I used to love building PCs and gaming on them. But now? I just want it to work because as a grown ass man - when I want to play games especially with friends I don't want to spend a lot of time figuring things out as to why its not working. I've embraced the idea that troubleshooting is a waste of my particular grown ass time in a world where there are other ways to get something very similar in a less hassled way. Sure PC will always be better than console on very technical levels, but it's just diminishing returns to many grown ass folk who don't build or tweak PCs anymore for fun or as a hobby.
This is a baffling statement as games just work for me. I only use my PC for gaming though so I don't have any dodgy shit installed that might fuck things up. But the fact remains that they just work, and they work at 4k, 60fps+, ultra settings, no frame pacing issues, and with lower latency than consoles. It's bliss.

Oh, I'm a "grown ass" 38 by the way, with a full time job and a toddler, and "enough money" to appreciate convenience but also to appreciate a 9900k/2080Ti and a C9 OLED. And trust me if I was spending hours troubleshooting I wouldn't want to play on PC either but that simply isn't the case. Well, it was in the 90s when we had to spend hours editing the config.sys and autoexec.bat files to free up enough conventional memory, but that's a bygone era. PC gaming actually saves me a load of time because the games load almost instantly so I'm not wasting my life looking at load screens, or getting frustrated with low console framerates/resolutions that I can't do anything about.

I own a PS4 Pro and a Switch too by the way. And they are both awesome for their own reasons too. But if a game is also available on PC, which it is most of the time, then is always an easy choice.

PC gaming isn't for everyone, of course, but for enthusiasts surely it's not hard to see the obvious benefits.
 

alexbull_uk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,147
UK
I've built PC from CyberPower PC before. I refuse to go down that road anymore. The thing is - you gotta be in the know at all times I believe to execute the best build for a great PC unit. I don't think there's a lot of folks like that left. Not as many as there used to be at least.
I mean, you could also just visit /r/buildapcforme and you'd probably get a solid reply in under an hour telling you exactly what to buy for your budget/usage.

It's honestly only as difficult as you want it to be.
 

Mesoian

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,951
I've built PC from CyberPower PC before. I refuse to go down that road anymore. The thing is - you gotta be in the know at all times I believe to execute the best build for a great PC unit. I don't think there's a lot of folks like that left. Not as many as there used to be at least.
Honestly, pulling a list of parts together and general assembly is pretty easy.

It's knowing when to buy that's the problem. The difference between spending 800,1200, or 1700 dollars can be a matter of minutes on an off tuesday.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,388
I do have a Dell Inspiron with a 1060.
I used to use a gaming laptop. I switched to a desktop 2 years later and never went back. Spent the same amount of money on both and the desktop experience was between 2-4x times better to start. Thermal throttling, super loud fan noise, and weird ass laptop OEM drivers aren't worth the trouble and expense in regards to the tyipical GAMER(TM) laptops. There's a reason why they don't make PS4 and Xbox One Portables as options for console gaming!

Being up to date with spec knowledge is the tradeoff for being able to take control of your gaming experience. I'm still using mostly the same desktop I just talked about. Back when I got it, I was playing games at 1080p120fps. Now I game on a 4k120hz display, with the option to switch to 1080p240 with the press of a button. All I had to do was swap out a GPU and plug in a new monitor. Same CPU, same ram model, same motherboard, same case, same psu - all from 2013. If I wanted to, I could play RDR2 at consoles settings at a stable 60fps at like ~1440p resolution right now. Can't do that on my base PS4.
 
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maximumzero

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,705
New Orleans, LA
Honestly, pulling a list of parts together and general assembly is pretty easy.

It's knowing when to buy that's the problem. The difference between spending 800,1200, or 1700 dollars can be a matter of minutes on an off tuesday.
The big issue to me is how convoluted video card and even CPU numbering is.

Glancing at the side panel of PCPartPicker, the "popular" Geforce GPU chipsets seem to be:

GTX1660
GTX1660 Ti
RTX 2060
RTX 2060 SUPER
RTX 2070
RTX 2070 SUPER
RTX 2070
RTX 2080 SUPER
RTX 2080
RTX 2080 Ti

Why there needs to be 10 concurrent options is beyond me, especially when there's likely something like 5 to 10 percent performance increases as you go along. I can't help but feel like a "Good, Better, Best" option would be best. And that's not accounting for the other 100+ options that appear when you click the "expand" button on the page, though admittedly a good number of these are discontinued at this point.

That almost seems obtainable if you drop the (I would assume to be older) GTX chipset and knock out the "Super" and "Ti" designations.

But I'm not dumb, folks like choices and ain't there ain't nothing wrong with that, it's simply an example of how daunting this can be for a newcomer to the platform.
 

Reinhard

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,183
RDR2 is the exception not the rule, the performance thread is 42 pages while the main thread is only like 31.... This shows that Rockstar really screwed up with the port BADLY even though they had a whole year to get it ready. A game can still be future thinking with having "ultra" meant for future graphics cards, but the game launcher should be able to run on any PC (some people still can't play the game 3 days later) and when setting the graphics settings down to high and medium, people should be getting great performance at 1080p and 1440p without any crashing/hitching (pauses on I5s, Vulkan crashes for me constantly).... Just shows that Rockstar really screwed up massively, while GTA V was a really well done PC port and scaled appropriately on lower end hardware. An 8 core/16 thread CPU with 16GB RAM and a decent video card like a 1080 Ti should be able to get more than 45 FPS at ultrawidescreen resolution with high settings (and a few medium settings like water physics).... This really isn't a matter of PC sucks, it is Rockstar royally screwed up on a huge PC release. Gears 5, Outer Worlds, Borderlands 3, Disco Elysium, Destiny 2 Shadowkeep Steam edition (let's not talk about the Battle.net edition and Ryzen 3000 lol) all worked for me fantastic without any hitches...
 

ImaLawy3r

Member
Jun 6, 2019
192
This is a baffling statement as games just work for me. I only use my PC for gaming though so I don't have any dodgy shit installed that might fuck things up. But the fact remains that they just work, and they work at 4k, 60fps+, ultra settings, no frame pacing issues, and with lower latency than consoles. It's bliss.

Oh, I'm a "grown ass" 38 by the way, with a full time job and a toddler, and "enough money" to appreciate convenience but also to appreciate a 9900k/2080Ti and a C9 OLED. And trust me if I was spending hours troubleshooting I wouldn't want to play on PC either but that simply isn't the case. Well, it was in the 90s when we had to spend hours editing the config.sys and autoexec.bat files to free up enough conventional memory, but that's a bygone era. PC gaming actually saves me a load of time because the games load almost instantly so I'm not wasting my life looking at load screens, or getting frustrated with low console framerates/resolutions that I can't do anything about.

I own a PS4 Pro and a Switch too by the way. And they are both awesome for their own reasons too. But if a game is also available on PC, which it is most of the time, then is always an easy choice.

PC gaming isn't for everyone, of course, but for enthusiasts surely it's not hard to see the obvious benefits.
For enthusiasts. Yes. Most people won't be paying top of the line money to play everything at ultra settings. I'm a grown ass 34 full time Lawyer with three kids that used to build PC machines but there's no point to do it for me when you need to keep up with the upgrades and tweaks to get the games to work more times than I'd like. Admittedly, my latest venture into PC gaming was lazier because I didn't want to invest too much of my time and money into it and got a Dell. From what everyone on here is saying, that is real reason as to my experience and if so - fine. I have an Xbox one X, PS4, Switch, and Dell. By far the Xbox, playstation, and switch gets more play time than the PC because the others just work instantly. Sure there are load times - I think (but I really can't think of too many of them). Most games are capped at 30 frames to 60 frames. Isn't the point of this thread also that RDR2 can't run at 60 fps for most PC setups? I mean, the X1X does a great job in price and performance and comparison to it's PC cousin when all things are considered without tweaking.
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
3,364
I strongly disagree. The modern PC gaming experience is very smooth. Not the same as consoles but not that far behind.
Having sunk thousands of hours into deskop PC, laptop PC (two models), Nintendo Switch and PS4 in the last few years, I strongly disagree back.

Look, relatively speaking, really big picture, yes both are very smooth. But when you're looking at the experience that "average Joe" is looking for, it's a huge difference. A prohibitive one.

...I mean, the point is, he shouldn't HAVE to fix his own bugs. PC gaming is a lot of things, but the onus of squashing bugs and finding workarounds for missing settings shouldn't be on the user. Having to edit an .ini file in order to turn off Ambient Occlusion is something that shouldn't have to be done. It's nice that you CAN take measures into your own hands, but even I, someone who mods skyrim for fun, find it unacceptable when something like Monster Hunter World comes out and I can't get it to run without editing 4 different .ini files.
This.

And it's not even as blatant as fixing .ini files at all. In principle a user should never have to look at ANY setting EVER. It's a messy, unpleasant part of a software experience that only exists out of necessity due to the platforms history.
 
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Suburban Thug

Member
Nov 13, 2017
3,233
Midwest
Disagree sir. Modern PC is still a shit show. Driver patches for performances. Needing to downgrade at times. There's too much that still goes wrong.
Do you own a gaming PC? I switched to PC from console about 1.5 years ago and think it's a pretty simple experience. Never have had to downgrade or download driver patches for performance. The worst thing I've dealt with is something crashing due to poor optimization.
 

Ultima_5

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,575
Do you own a gaming PC? I switched to PC from console about 1.5 years ago and think it's a pretty simple experience. Never have had to downgrade or download driver patches for performance. The worst thing I've dealt with is something crashing due to poor optimization.
this has been my experience as well. i built my PC about 3 or 4 years ago and i dont see myself converting back to consoles. and this is from someone who only ever owned macs before. most things are painless

for the most part there's about 20 mins of tweaking settings (or going on reddit and finding a similar build and seeing what someone else used), and then im good to go.
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
3,364
People have the time. They have all the time in the world for fiddling with their phone or binge watching entire seasons of shows on Netflix.
People just don’t want to have to do anything anymore. I can only imagine future threads where hooking up a console is too much effort. They need Google Speaker to start their game on Stadia.
No, enthusiasts have time. "Jane bloggs", your absolute layman player, who are like 80% of the gaming population, does not.

Hence why most play mobile. Mobile is far and away the easiest platform to get into. No settings, one tap download, rarely even a purchase - and it's on a supercomputer everyone has in their pocket (that almost no one tweaks).
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
550
I've built PC from CyberPower PC before. I refuse to go down that road anymore. The thing is - you gotta be in the know at all times I believe to execute the best build for a great PC unit. I don't think there's a lot of folks like that left. Not as many as there used to be at least.
The PC building community on Reddit is the largest I have ever seen online, and I've been making my own PCs since 2007. It's so easy these days, compared to how to used to be. It's an fact.
 

Launchpad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,353
No, enthusiasts have time. "Jane bloggs", your absolute layman player, who are like 80% of the gaming population, does not.

Hence why most play mobile. Mobile is far and away the easiest platform to get into. No settings, one tap download, rarely even a purchase - and it's on a supercomputer everyone has in their pocket (that almost no one tweaks).
I don't understand why that's relevant to the thread though. This is an enthusiast forum.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,122
UK
For enthusiasts. Yes. Most people won't be paying top of the line money to play everything at ultra settings. I'm a grown ass 34 full time Lawyer with three kids that used to build PC machines but there's no point to do it for me when you need to keep up with the upgrades and tweaks to get the games to work more times than I'd like. Admittedly, my latest venture into PC gaming was lazier because I didn't want to invest too much of my time and money into it and got a Dell. From what everyone on here is saying, that is real reason as to my experience and if so - fine. I have an Xbox one X, PS4, Switch, and Dell. By far the Xbox, playstation, and switch gets more play time than the PC because the others just work instantly. Sure there are load times - I think (but I really can't think of too many of them). Most games are capped at 30 frames to 60 frames. Isn't the point of this thread also that RDR2 can't run at 60 fps for most PC setups? I mean, the X1X does a great job in price and performance and comparison to it's PC cousin when all things are considered without tweaking.
RDR2 is one game! And I couldn't give shit about "most PC setups" when the only one that matters to me is mine. Just like if you have a PS4 Pro, how is the base PS4 of any relevance to your experience? 99% of my games run at 4k and locked 60 on my 2080Ti, even the likes of Sekiro, FH4 etc. The few exceptions like Outer Worlds which have slight dips to 50fps (and this is at native 4k and full ultra settings btw), it isn't even noticeable because of G-Sync. There's also the huge bump in draw distance etc thanks to Ultra settings. Then there's Rocket League at a locked 120fps when the PS4 Pro can't even manage a fully locked 60fps. But you already know all this, it's easy to ignore it all if you haven't experienced it. But when you have it's impossible to go back. Just like you wouldn't want to go back to an Xbox One S from an Xbox One X.

As for your other comment, my PC works instantly, I'm looking at Steam BPM instantly, as with my consoles it's in standby when not used. Again, not all PCs are the same. That's the beauty of PC - you can make it to be whatever you want it to be.

And X1X is fantastic for what it is - albeit I sold mine recently after getting my PC. But it's also massively limited compared to PC. You're still stuck at 30fps for most games. Many games are stuck at 1080p or lower because they've never received X patches. 360 games get resolution bumps via BC but they're still 30fps. Then there's the performance issues in games because developers are pushing the resolution too high for the hardware, and guess what - you can do fuck all about it.

As for load times? Loads of games have long load times this gen, you've likely just become accustomed to it. Once you get used to games loading in just a couple of seconds - as you will when next gen hits with their SSDs - you'll find it extremely painful going back to waiting 30-90+ seconds for games to load.

But my point is: I fully appreciate you have no interest in any of the above. You just want to switch on a console and play a game because you're not bothered about framerates or whatever. That's fine, I totally get that. But you also need to understand that for many of us, we want more than that. And that's fine too.
 
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Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,617
Disagree sir. Modern PC is still a shit show. Driver patches for performances. Needing to downgrade at times. There's too much that still goes wrong.
No, but "modern gaming" on a PC that has "whatever" installed on it all slapdash and lackadaisical, where the PC isn't actually setup with the priority being gaming is. I haven't had a serious issue, or even much more than a minor inconvenience with gaming on PC since 2006, and that was with a single game. Now go back to the mid 90s through very early 00s? Different story. Modern PC gaming has never been easier.

edit: Noticed you were talking about a laptop. I've had plenty of issues with laptops, but I've never gamed on one. It's primarily just that they are a lot less powerful than the desktops I am used to, and to get something comparable would require even more of an investment.

But anyway, I wouldn't use RDR2 as a perfect example, even though it is a decent one to put off those who might just be opening up to the idea of PC gaming. I know many people who have the ability to game on PC, but simply don't want to be bothered. It's not hard, but sometimes people don't want to have to be bothered with having to deal with the (very few) extra steps it takes to get to the start menu of a game.

From personal experience, I built a beast of a gaming PC for my best friend at the end of 2015. He's played zero games on it (even though he's also super into retro gaming as well), because he can just yell at his Xbox, or use is Blu-ray player to play games instead. He thinks the PC is a hassle, yet will spend hours hooking up SCART and controller converters for older consoles as well as building arcade cabinets. He also somehow thinks playing at 60fps is "weird", since I've had him actually play a few games on my PCs over the years and said that it reminded him too much of HFR movies that neither of us can stand. I told him that once he acclimated to it, he wouldn't want to go back to 30fps, so maybe it's a good thing he never did.

...I mean, the point is, he shouldn't HAVE to fix his own bugs. PC gaming is a lot of things, but the onus of squashing bugs and finding workarounds for missing settings shouldn't be on the user. Having to edit an .ini file in order to turn off Ambient Occlusion is something that shouldn't have to be done. It's nice that you CAN take measures into your own hands, but even I, someone who mods skyrim for fun, find it unacceptable when something like Monster Hunter World comes out and I can't get it to run without editing 4 different .ini files.
Is this a real example, or a hypothetical one? I had zero issues getting the PC version to run, and didn't have to edit anything. In fact, I honestly cannot relate with many of the various issues that a lot of people seemingly have when it comes to PC gaming. I just don't. For me, "It just works", although I actively avoided Arkham Knight when all of the performance problems were revealed right before the PC release. Otherwise, my gaming PCs are strictly that. The only other thing I use them for is watching movies via madVR and browsing the internet, but there's barely any other programs or unnecessary drivers installed. Similarly with GPU drivers. I never actually update unless a major feature is implemented, or a new title might have some performance problems and the new drivers help. The number of times where this has actually been a thing for me I can count on one hand.

You either build a PC or buy a PC that is has great specs. If you fall into the building the PC, unless you're an enthusiast today it takes a good amount of time to get all the pieces right for the right price you are looking for without ever turning it on. If you fall into the buy a PC that has great specs then you still have to worry about if and when this thing will start degrade and can't play on ultra high settings, etc - like my 1060. https://www.game-debate.com/hardware/index.php?gid=3540&graphics=GeForce GTX 1060

Okay, now that we have that covered - I'll have to upgrade in another 2-3 years to get the quality that other people are playing at for a good chunk of money. We haven't even gotten to the part about figuring out why certain games are crashing for no reason at times or there's some performance issue and you have to do something odd to get it to work. It's just ironically, not optimized.
Building a PC today is almost as simple as connecting some Legos. There are so many resources out there now that actually finding the parts that work well together has never been easier. Yes, you absolutely can get a good prebuilt PC for a good price, but it's still good to know at least a little bit about the hardware in case something does happen in the future and you either need to replace a part, or simply want to upgrade.

Also, why the fuck do you have to upgrade every 2-3 years, unless you're just envious of what you can't currently do? If you've built a PC during the start of any given console generation that beats what the consoles can do, you are good for the next 5+ years. The only reason to upgrade is because you want to upgrade, not because you have to. Even then it's almost always just going to be a new GPU and maybe a new SSD.
 
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Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
550
People seem to have this insane notion that if a port is bad on PC it's the fault of the platform, while if a port is bad on consoles it's the fault of the developer. For every RDR2 on PC there's a Control or MCC on console.
 

c0Zm1c

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,401
And it's not even as blatant as fixing .ini files at all. In principle a user should never have to look at ANY setting EVER. It's a messy, unpleasant part of a software experience that only exists out of necessity due to the platforms history.
Any setting ever? A few of the first things I do in my PC (and similarly, console) games is adjust audio, adjust key bindings and switch to inverted Y (depending on the game).

I don't see settings as a bad thing and given the wide variety of PC hardware, the more of them the better. Without resolution settings we would probably be stuck with the 1080p chosen as default by developers, for example. Not good if you have a 4K monitor, or worse, an ultrawide monitor.