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OPINION: Red Dead Redemption 2 on PC is exactly the reason why some people still HATE gaming on PC

Oct 27, 2017
4,020
Then be clear with what you're actually objecting to.

Here's a 1060 getting 57fps at 1080p low. You can extrapolate what pushing 4X the pixels will do to that number pretty easily.


It's averaging 19fps on high here at 4k. If you extrapolate....
 

Jiminy

Avenger
Mar 29, 2018
3,364
Any setting ever? A few of the first things I do in my PC (and similarly, console) games is adjust audio, adjust key bindings and switch to inverted Y (depending on the game).

I don't see settings as a bad thing and given the wide variety of PC hardware, the more of them the better. Without resolution settings we would probably be stuck with the 1080p chosen as default by developers, for example. Not good if you have a 4K monitor, or worse, an ultrawide monitor.
No of course not, sorry I meant graphical and performance settings. Of course loads of settings are necessary for accessibility and preference.

I just mean there's an ideal world where you never have to touch any graphical settings. Especially when you're getting performance irregularities, which are p common. I'm sure we'll get there soon enough.
 

HF2014

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,232
Reason why i left PC gaming for a long time, rather just keep my laptop to play some indies, magic the gathering. Iv spend soo much on PC with upgrades for like a good 15 years, everytime it was a thing that i need to tweaks x and y settings in game or on pc. No , never going back into that boat.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,023
Texas
The reason why I don't game on consoles is because I spent so much on consoles and online over 15 years. Games were always $60 at launch, prices took forever to fall. Had to upgrade every few years. Had so many games fail to maintain 30fps and with bad visuals (like chromatic abberation). Never again.
 

Mr_Moogle

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,307
Playing through Bloodborne on my PS4 makes me want to hug my PC. The game is a masterpiece but damn if it wouldn't be better with a bump in resolution and 60 fps.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
550
Playing through Bloodborne on my PS4 makes me want to hug my PC. The game is a masterpiece but damn if it wouldn't be better with a bump in resolution and 60 fps.
That's also something to consider, if a game like Bloodborne launched on PC in the same state that it's currently at on PS4, people would be calling it a worse port than RDR2 and would be making a massive fuss. Standards are just higher on PC for these things.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,960
That's also something to consider, if a game like Bloodborne launched on PC in the same state that it's currently at on PS4, people would be calling it a worse port than RDR2 and would be making a massive fuss. Standards are just higher on PC for these things.
Any game on PC where you can't hit 60fps without stuttering is basically called rubbish. Half the games on console can't even hit locked 30 on Pro consoles but don't get anywhere near as much complaining.
 
Oct 28, 2019
32
You probably won't get a non biased consensus on a primarily console forum, but I just imagine the rage would feel if a new game I bought didn't work for any reason or other was some weird quirk like micro stutter. Then I remember why I am in no rush to switch to pc. I remember how frustrating it was to get the grind house typing of the dead game to work on steam and it was old as hell at the time. I know that may not be common but the risk of it makes me stay away from pc. I also think this next batch of consoles will be more powerful relative to pcs for longer.
 

Mr_Moogle

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,307
That's also something to consider, if a game like Bloodborne launched on PC in the same state that it's currently at on PS4, people would be calling it a worse port than RDR2 and would be making a massive fuss. Standards are just higher on PC for these things.
That wouldn't have actually happened though. From Software cleaned up their PC ports a fair bit after Dark Souls. Had Bloodborne been able to release on PC, there's no reason to believe the game would run any worse than DS2 or DS3, both of which had decent ports.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
550
That wouldn't have actually happened though. From Software cleaned up their PC ports a fair bit after Dark Souls. Had Bloodborne been able to release on PC, there's no reason to believe the game would run any worse than DS2 or DS3, both of which had decent ports.
I am aware, that wasn't the point of the post. I was just pointing out that acceptable standards regarding performance etc is just higher on PC.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,122
UK
Bloodborne is a perfect example of the limitation of console gaming. It hasn't received a Pro patch, for whatever baffling reason, and as such we're still stuck at 1080p, aliasing galore and 30fps with frame pacing issues even though the Pro is capable of so much more. We have no choice but to accept that, enabling boost mode helps a little with the frame pacing but that's it. On PC we'd be able to play it at native 4k, 60fps, perfect frame pacing, G sync etc, it would be automatically future proof. It's sad that we can't experience that. But it is what it is.

Like the beauty of games coming to PC in the past means we can now play Dead Space and Mass Effect trilogies in 4k/60, and games like Alien Isolation, Bioshock, Portal 2, Mirrors Edge, Sonic Generations etc the same. Something we cannot do on console. Even the games that have received the X treatment are still at their original framerates and console graphics settings.
 
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Mr_Moogle

Member
Nov 2, 2017
2,307
I am aware, that wasn't the point of the post. I was just pointing out that acceptable standards regarding performance etc is just higher on PC.
That's probably true.

I also think people might have got their hopes up because they saw how well GTA V runs PC and assumed the same for RDR2. Obviously whatever modifications they've made the to engine since then must be heavily Jaguar-centric.
 

pswii60

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,122
UK
I am aware, that wasn't the point of the post. I was just pointing out that acceptable standards regarding performance etc is just higher on PC.
This is true. It's the same on AVForums when looking at the discussions of high end TVs, whether plasmas of the past or OLEDs now. Then comparing those discussions to those of the low end TVs. You'd think the high end stuff was terrible and the low end stuff was the best thing since sliced bread. But in reality it's a totally different set of people with very different standards, tolerances and expectations compared to those in the other camp.

It's the same for PC. The expectation is 60fps minimum, with all the bells and whistles and high resolution. Whereas people will typically accept 30fps, frame drops, LoD pop in, frame pacing issues etc on console as just part of the experience for demanding games, it won't be tolerated by the PC audience. So obviously they're going to moan a lot more when things aren't perfect. And that's perfectly normal.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,719
Having sunk thousands of hours into deskop PC, laptop PC (two models), Nintendo Switch and PS4 in the last few years, I strongly disagree back.

Look, relatively speaking, really big picture, yes both are very smooth. But when you're looking at the experience that "average Joe" is looking for, it's a huge difference. A prohibitive one.
See, this sort of position in my opinion is hugely exaggerated because of the console-centric nature of this community. Yes, console gaming is smoother, but there are millions upon millions of people all over the world engaging in this apparently prohibitively cumbersome experience. And the market keeps growing. It simply isn't true to say that the experience is prohibitive to the average joe, unless one feels comfortable making the argument that the entirety of PC gaming's audience is comprised of hardcore enthusiasts.
 
Oct 25, 2017
147
There is a poster seriously making the argument that this game is better with lower resolution & frame rates in this topic LOL
 

Sanctuary

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,617
Like the beauty of games coming to PC in the past means we can now play Dead Space and Mass Effect trilogies in 4k/60, and games like Alien Isolation, Bioshock, Portal 2, Mirrors Edge, Sonic Generations etc the same. Something we cannot do on console. Even the games that have received the X treatment are still at their original framerates and console graphics settings.
Dead Space has some rough looking textures that do not improve with resolution, but on the other hand, it's still ridiculously atmospheric on an OLED.

There is a poster seriously making the argument that this game is better with lower resolution & frame rates in this topic LOL
We just had a thread where the OP believes the Switch version of TW3 is more immersive. That's just their opinion, but...

I'd rather play my games, not troubleshoot them.
I would rather play my games, not sit through constant 30 - 60 second loading screens. Fingers crossed that at least that issue won't be a factor next gen, and we can load faster than Cerny's laptop.
 
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Total Cereal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
150
I'm starting to see a pattern on this site that people really enjoy console vs PC threads. Anyway, seeing all of the issues that people are having with RDR2 really reminds me of why I switched back to console. On console, you get worse performance, lower resolution, fewer controller options, little or no graphics options, a closed ecosystem, and quickly outdated hardware. But at least your games work, and they work well. Maybe they don't run as well as some people would like them to run, but at least you don't have to fight to get them to work, as is the case with RDR2 on PC. I had more than my fair share of that during the ~6 years I spent on PC.

I'd rather play my games, not troubleshoot them.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
550
I'm starting to see a pattern on this site that people really enjoy console vs PC threads. Anyway, seeing all of the issues that people are having with RDR2 really reminds me of why I switched back to console. On console, you get worse performance, lower resolution, fewer controller options, little or no graphics options, a closed ecosystem, and quickly outdated hardware. But at least your games work, and they work well. Maybe they don't run as well as some people would like them to run, but at least you don't have to fight to get them to work, as is the case with RDR2 on PC. I had more than my fair share of that during the ~6 years I spent on PC.

I'd rather play my games, not troubleshoot them.
Honestly I'd rather play my games, not troubleshoot them and not have to put up with garbage console performance/visuals/options either. Luckily PCs exist, which can do just that if you want them to.
 

leng jai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
9,960
Some games do run better. Though admittedly I can only think of one right now (Ninja Gaiden 2)
They do run better for sure because most of the original versions don't run at locked 30 in the first place whereas they do on the Xbox One. There's the outlier games that have unlocked frame rate which in theory can be boosted all the way to 60 through brute force,
 

GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,090
It's definitely been a problem on PC for decades. You have to be a certain person to be able to enjoy PC gaming. It's definitely not for everyone and I think people should stop recommending PC as platform for everyone. Also games with poor ports to PC are not because of the platform being terrible to develop for. It just requires a certain level of work and effort to get it to where it will make people happy. Games like RDR2 fail to accomplish the simplest of things like actually running let alone have good performance. The problem is that many publishers even with huge budgets think it's OK to release a broken game on the market. I think this is where consoles and PC differ greatly. How can PC gamers hold developers and publishers accountable?
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,098
It's definitely been a problem on PC for decades. You have to be a certain person to be able to enjoy PC gaming. It's definitely not for everyone and I think people should stop recommending PC as platform for everyone. Also games with poor ports to PC are not because of the platform being terrible to develop for. It just requires a certain level of work and effort to get it to where it will make people happy. Games like RDR2 fail to accomplish the simplest of things like actually running let alone have good performance. The problem is that many publishers even with huge budgets think it's OK to release a broken game on the market. I think this is where consoles and PC differ greatly. How can PC gamers hold developers and publishers accountable?
I read these takes and wonder if I've been doing it wrong. This forum would make people believe PC gaming requires an advanced degree. I don't get it.

My kid is 14 and he's been gaming on PC for years, for some reason doesn't touch our consoles. Occasionally I will update the GPU driver or bump Windows to the next revision (have it set to hold off major releases for 180 days). I -might- do the GPU quarterly at most. Otherwise he just plays games. I don't think he's asked a question in a couple years. Thrilled to have a genius in the house I guess.
 
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XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
1,448
It's definitely been a problem on PC for decades. You have to be a certain person to be able to enjoy PC gaming. It's definitely not for everyone and I think people should stop recommending PC as platform for everyone. Also games with poor ports to PC are not because of the platform being terrible to develop for. It just requires a certain level of work and effort to get it to where it will make people happy. Games like RDR2 fail to accomplish the simplest of things like actually running let alone have good performance. The problem is that many publishers even with huge budgets think it's OK to release a broken game on the market. I think this is where consoles and PC differ greatly. How can PC gamers hold developers and publishers accountable?
It's perfectly fine for you to avoid a platform for any reason whatsoever, but you can't tell people what to do in regards to what platform they prefer/recommend.

I understand if people don't desire the open nature and what it entails, but anecdotally I have several people within my family and other circles who know nothing about computers but can game fine without "constant troubleshooting". They don't tweak or change settings so it naturally decreases the risk of a corrupt system or incompatible settings.

I don't know what kind of experience you've had, but do you really think it's representative for everyone?
 
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GameAddict411

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,090
It's perfectly fine for you to avoid a platform for any reason whatsoever, but you can't tell people what to do in regards to what platform they prefer/recommend.

I understand if people don't desire the open nature and what it entails, but anecdotally I have several people within my family and other circles who know nothing about computers but can game fine without "constant troubleshooting". They don't tweak or change settings so it naturally decreases the risk of a corrupt system or incompatible settings.

I don't know what kind of experience you've had, but do you really think it's representative for everyone?
I am not saying to outright not recommend PC gaming. What I am saying is that people shouldn't blindly recommend it to everyone. And that's just an opinion.
 

Nax

Member
Oct 10, 2018
1,579
Definitely the biggest reason why I like console gaming. Support forums for PC versions of games are always way more crowded than console. Because unfortunately, the games don't always "just work" like they do on consoles. Way more variability.

I'm happy to just put a disc in/click a button and expect everything to go haha.
 

Bluelote

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,063
Reason why i left PC gaming for a long time, rather just keep my laptop to play some indies, magic the gathering. Iv spend soo much on PC with upgrades for like a good 15 years, everytime it was a thing that i need to tweaks x and y settings in game or on pc. No , never going back into that boat.
that's on your spending habits, not on the platform,
now if you "need" to max out games, yeah, you are going to spend a fortune and never be happy, but if that's the case, you wouldn't be able accept a console I would assume.

PC can be a budget friendly gaming platform or not, it's up to you, PC just gives you choice like no console.

if you want RDR2 at PS4 settings and 30FPS I'm sure it doesn't take the latest hardware to play.
 

Sankt Ra

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,851
Any game on PC where you can't hit 60fps without stuttering is basically called rubbish. Half the games on console can't even hit locked 30 on Pro consoles but don't get anywhere near as much complaining.
Of course that's the case since most enthusiasts in the PC gaming scene are not gaming on a 400$ system... More likely then not their gpu alone costs as much. With it the expectations are also higher.
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,907
I read these takes and wonder if I've been doing it wrong. This forum would make people believe PC gaming requires an advanced degree. I don't get it.

My kid is 14 and he's been gaming on PC for years, for some reason doesn't touch our consoles. Occasionally I will update the GPU driver or bump Windows to the next revision (have it set to hold off major releases for 180 days). I -might- do the GPU quarterly at most. Otherwise he just plays games. I don't think he's asked a question in a couple years. Thrilled to have a genius in the house I guess.
I jumped in at the start of the gen and had heard all the talk about the complexity, was honestly a bit worried.
But...

If Steam isn’t already running:
Double click the Steam icon on the desktop

If Steam is running:
click on the game I want to play

If the game isn’t installed:
click install

If the game is installed:
click start

In rare occasions I have to go into the settings to change something or confirm a Steam update but I’m super lazy and basically never fiddle with anything, I bought the computer from a custom PC shop too that preinstalled Windows and made sure everything was stable. Of course you can always be unfortunate to stumble upon an instability but that really isn’t the norm at all from my experience. As far as I’m concerned the complexity talk must come from an idea that you need to overclock and fiddle with ini files to play a game. Or maybe it was more complex years ago? Otherwise I don’t understand the origin. I really don’t do anything besides play the games.

(Haven’t played RDR2 on PC yet though)
 

Phantom88

Banned
Jan 7, 2018
726
But at least your games work, and they work well.
i dont think you can find a single game on ps4 in the lasst 4 years that can hold its framerate constant throughout.

Actually, the age old idea that console games just work seems to be more and more of a bullshit myth now that we have tools to measure performance and we have videos going back to all sorts of games even from the 90's. ocarina ran like shit, goldeneye ran like shit. ps2 gtas ran like shit. turok 2 ran like in single digit framerates.

I myself would rather give up gaming than be reduced to consoles for playing games if this is how "games that work" looks like
 

mxbison

Member
Jan 14, 2019
1,593
people love to act like they never have issues but thats simply a lie (or they are the luckiest person on earth).

computers are incredibly complex machines, with windows being an incredibly complex OS, trying to run a game which is an incredibly complex application. things simply go wrong, and sometimes you have no idea why.

I've been a life long PC player and always will be, but the whole "its just as easy as playing on a console" is annoying and wrong.
 

Pazee

Member
Nov 5, 2019
8
I finally got the game looking better than on the One X. You definitely need all the lighting and shadows on ultra to get all the different systems to look natural imo. I also switched over to direct X 12 which may have helped(?). I put about 60+ hours on the One X on a 4K OLED and am about 5 hours in on PC walking around Saint Denis and am finally happy with how the game looks comparatively.

Keen for the digital foundry findings.
 

Kraken3dfx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,626
Denver, CO
Today I upgraded to a beta motherboard bios obtained from a questionable German tech store site that was linked from some dude on an obscure motherboard forum with roughly a dozen posts under his belt to fix a freezing problem with RDR2, and it was the coolest PC shit I've done in ages, not going to lie.

PC gaming is still awesome.
 

georaldc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,025
people love to act like they never have issues but thats simply a lie (or they are the luckiest person on earth).

computers are incredibly complex machines, with windows being an incredibly complex OS, trying to run a game which is an incredibly complex application. things simply go wrong, and sometimes you have no idea why.

I've been a life long PC player and always will be, but the whole "its just as easy as playing on a console" is annoying and wrong.
I've run into way too many random, irritating problems when gaming on PCs that I would never encounter with consoles. Just earlier today, my motherboard's bluetooth adapter started acting up after an hour of working just fine, randomly disconnecting and reconnecting/detecting my xbox one controller over and over again every 10 seconds, even after I switched off the controller. Little things like that just become really frustrating especially when there are no obvious solutions.
 

DALE

Member
Nov 25, 2017
77
This thing still going on?

Not sure if there's a need for a PC versus Consoles thread. Feels like beating a dead horse.

Sure, RDR2 release could've been better. There are quite a number of people being quite vocal about it. On the other end there are folks like me who've had the game crashing once or twice, or thrice. Not that bad, regardless. Also, I've spent like 15 minutes fiddling with the settings alongside playing the game. I'm having a lovely time. This thing might turn out as my "game of the generation" regardless of the performance issues.

People are different and hashing things out through the platforms they use is, I think, pointless. Tends to shift the blame on the wrong things. Because I could just go and say that playing this thing on a console never was an option for me, for the obvious reasons. But, even the obvious reasons aren't really the consoles' fault: the developers make the decisions on the platforms they use.

The thread should be renamed into: "Rockstar's Red Dead Redemption 2 is a technical arsehole on the PC".
 

Fredrik

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,907
people love to act like they never have issues but thats simply a lie (or they are the luckiest person on earth).

computers are incredibly complex machines, with windows being an incredibly complex OS, trying to run a game which is an incredibly complex application. things simply go wrong, and sometimes you have no idea why.

I've been a life long PC player and always will be, but the whole "its just as easy as playing on a console" is annoying and wrong.
It can be just as easy as I explained earlier. My wife is a PC gamer as well and she knows exactly nothing at all about hardware and fiddling with ini files or driver or whatever. So I guess we're two of those luckiest persons on earth here then. Gsync is a tweak-saver though, since I never see much stutter I just never bother to try tweaking things to perfection, I just start the games and make sure vsync is off and start gaming.

I had some issues at one point when I tried to benchmark and overlock my GPU when the factory overclock for the GPU didn't work. But after someone said those benchmark points would in reality mean 3-4 extra frames I just stopped and forgot all about it. And still, Gears 5, 100fps on average on Ultra. Its enough.
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,098
I've run into way too many random, irritating problems when gaming on PCs that I would never encounter with consoles. Just earlier today, my motherboard's bluetooth adapter started acting up after an hour of working just fine, randomly disconnecting and reconnecting/detecting my xbox one controller over and over again every 10 seconds, even after I switched off the controller. Little things like that just become really frustrating especially when there are no obvious solutions.
Not sure if you are aware but this is one of the more common problems with Xbox One as well.
 

Cripterion

Member
Oct 27, 2017
795
Speak for yourself. I love revisiting titles with updated specs after a rig upgrade
I'm not disputing that but that doesn't make their settings "future proof" in the least. Game doesn't even have ray tracing features. Besides running at a better framerate you'll only get a substantial visual upgrade.

Right now it's highly playable with a mix of high/ultra/med settings, crank up everything to ultra and your fps will plummet but can you really pinpoint the visual differences while playing? In 5 years the game will look old, not better.

Once again I'm taking mods out of the equation of course.
 

Alexandros

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,719
people love to act like they never have issues but thats simply a lie (or they are the luckiest person on earth).

computers are incredibly complex machines, with windows being an incredibly complex OS, trying to run a game which is an incredibly complex application. things simply go wrong, and sometimes you have no idea why.

I've been a life long PC player and always will be, but the whole "its just as easy as playing on a console" is annoying and wrong.
That's not the argument being made here. Consoles are simpler to use than PCs. However, presenting the modern PC gaming experience as this nightmare of tweaking and troubleshooting is a lie too. For the vast majority of people and the vast majority of games the experience is smooth and straightforward.
 

georaldc

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,025
Not sure if you are aware but this is one of the more common problems with Xbox One as well.
I know about the controller losing sync, but I've never had the same issue I described with my xbox one. The one that happened to me earlier was strange because my PC kept cycling a controller from connected and disconnected states repeatedly eventhough the controller wasn't even powered on (and everytime it did it, my PC would stutter for a second or 2)
 

Lakeside

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,098
Hardware issues are basically the only PC exclusive, don'tcha know?

It is absolutely no wonder at all to me why PC enthusiasts avoid this forum. Jesus.
I am legitimately surprised that nobody has flipped this over and made a parody thread at this point. I guess nobody wants to eat the ban when you can just ignore this dumpster of a thread.