Ori and the Blind Forest is a beautiful disappointment...

[DominicanGlory]

When I bought the Switch in August of this year, there were two games that topped my list. One was Cuphead which by a significant amount surpassed my expectations and the other was Ori. I had already played Super Mario Odyssey and Breath of the Wild in 2017 on a relative's Switch so my top 5 consisted of other not so obvious must haves... I am a huge Metroidvania fan so never having an Xbox 360 stung whenever people would heap praise on Ori... Soon as the rumors started to float around that it'd hit the Switch I was salivating at the thought of it finally getting into my hands. As soon as it was available for preorder I went ahead and did that. After a couple of months between release and me whittling down the backlog I finally got to it.

It started with a lotta promise. Ori moves and feels great to handle, the gorgeous world seemed ripe for secrets and exploration and the gameplay albeit simple seemed like it would ramp up to something special... But it didn't.

I'm probably about ~70% through the game and it's so shameful how the combat, enemy encounter variety and general loop has not evolved a lick from the 1st half hour. You're fighting the same 3-4 enemies in the same ways, navigating the environments in pretty much a repeated loop that makes none of the areas stand out on their own despite how visually impressive they are.

The game also unfortunately seems to be artificially difficult to make up for its mechanical shortcomings on the encounters. Ori can only sustain two or three hits from pretty much any enemy or hazard and it's pretty annoying and cheap a lotta the time, yes there's a checkpoint system that mitigates a lot of the hassle and repetition but I feel like that was a cop-out implementation to not properly balance the game.

I am maybe coming off rough in this post but I've mostly enjoyed my time with the game, it's just that I think it's vastly underachieving on its potential. A borderline 7/10 experience atm. Hopefully Will of the Wisp is a big improvement because it has a lot of promise as a series.

 

[defaltoption]

I can only speak for myself as someone who has never really been into or played metroidvanias ever, im probably 40% through the game and im really enjoying it. I die all the time and don't know where im going quite often but between the art and music and nothing to compare it to mechanic wise its really fun for me.

 

[NLCPRESIDENT]

Ori is amazing man. Definitely one of the top Metroidvanias of this gen. Haven't played it on switch, but on Xbox it's still amazing.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Nah, that game is one of the best of the generation. Played on Hard and didn't find anything particularly unfair.
Enemy/combat variety isn't its strong suit but its so successful on every other level and fighting certainly wasn't the focus.

 

[ryushe]

One of the few games where I literally do not understand the immense praise it receives.

Which is fine, mind you, but I'm always just so baffled by it.

 

[Mugman]

LIke you I consider Ori a pretty good game, but I agree its combat design and encounters are pretty bad. I enjoyed my time with it, but it does not come close to approaching the best that the genre has to offer. I also wasn't really a fan of the skill trees and how they were handled. All of that said I still bought and played through the game three times, so I hope I don't sound too negative

Will of the Wisps looks like it's fixed the combat issues already though, and I'm really looking forward to it

 

[Stoze]

Ori and the Blind Forest is a platformer. You don't criticize Mario, Donkey Kong, or Rayman for having "bad combat" so I don't know why you would here. You typically use enemies as stepping stones just as you would in those games, otherwise instead of throwing fireballs, shells, or punches when you need to dispatch enemies, you throw little orb things instead.

 

[HK-47]

Never felt like the game needed to have more combat when it's platforming was so fluid. They focused on the correct thing.

 

[giapel]

This has been my experience with it. It shows a lot of promise early on and looks gorgeous but the gameplay loop is just frustrating. Doesn't help that the platforming is so imprecise. It's currently in my backlog at 50% complete. I just don't have fun when playing it and feels like trial and error most of the time. I think it got the metroidvania formula all wrong

 

[NediarPT88]

Ori has poor combat, that's a common complaint. I read about it before playing it so I had no expectations in that regard which was good because otherwise I would've been disappointed.

It compensates that with really cool platforming sections and a awesome presentation.

 

[Mass Effect]

I really liked it. It's definitely not a deep game by any means, especially compared to other Metroidvanias like Hollow Knight, but it's still great nonetheless.

 

[Dr. Ludwig]

Having limited enemy variety isn't that much of an issue since it's primarily a platforming game and your comment about navigation is just... not true. The game is constantly evolving Ori's core moveset and presenting challenges to scale with the new abilities till the end of the game and some secrets that need backtracking.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

You typically use enemies as stepping stones just as you would in those games

Click to shrink...

Id say even more so in this game where Bash was a means of using enemies and projectiles as a mid air boost in any direction.
You don't even have to fight most enemies in the game.

 

[Grudy]

I don't really agree with your comments about the areas feeling bland just because of the combat and enemies, they were some of the most memorable levels in this gen for me simply due to the art style and different platforming in each area (arguably due to the skills obtained in each). You're right about the combat but as others have said, I had no expectations for it. It didn't really detract anything from the game for me.

 

[DrScissorsMD]

Ori and the Blind Forest is a platformer. You don't criticize Mario, Donkey Kong, or Rayman for having "bad combat" so I don't know why you would here. You typically use enemies as stepping stones just as you would in those games, otherwise instead of throwing fireballs, shells, or punches when you need to dispatch enemies, you throw little orb things instead.

Click to shrink...

/thread

 

[ryushe]

Ori and the Blind Forest is a platformer. You don't criticize Mario, Donkey Kong, or Rayman for having "bad combat" so I don't know why you would here.

Click to shrink...

Because it is often billed as a Metroidvania and those almost always have good combat.

I personally agree that Ori is a platformer and is, for me at least, first and foremost in that genre more than it is in the Metroidvania camp but if you're walking into this game expecting a Metroidvania, you're expecting good combat as well.

 

[DNgamers]

I played the demo and like the style but disliked the floatiness, the combat and the very apparent feeling of linearity. Which is ironic since every Metroidvania is linear (but some manage to hide it better) and Ori should be judged by its own merrits more as a platformer I guess. I can see myself finishing it in one week and liking it if I can stop comparing everything to Hollow Knight.

Btw, you probably already have but after Ori you could tackle Hollow Knight, OP!

 

[HiLife]

Wow I genuinely feel some type of way about that title lol.

As of a week ago, this has been my surprise LTTP GOTY for me. Every other metroidvania esque platformers I played the past few years never resonated with me like Ori has. Great music. Great platforming. Great art style. Great story. And the combat loop is fun when the skill tree opens up. And the game doesn't overstay it's welcome.

The sequel is one of my most anticipated for 2020.

 

[Stoze]

Id say even more so in this game where Bash was a means of using enemies and projectiles as a mid air boost in any direction.
You don't even have to fight most enemies in the game.

Click to shrink...

Yep. I think seeing the health bars combined with people hearing "Metroidvania" warp people's expectations. It's a platformer-ass platformer, not an action adventure ala Hollow Knight or Castlevania or whatever.

Never felt like the game needed to have more combat when it's platforming was so fluid. They focused on the correct thing.

Click to shrink...

And weirdly enough that's what makes me slightly cautious about the sequel, as they are adding weaponry, full combat, NPCs, etc. But I think Moon Studio knows what they're doing.

 

[HK-47]

Because it is often billed as a Metroidvania and those almost always have good combat.

I personally agree that Ori is a platformer and is, for me at least, first and foremost in that genre more than it is in the Metroidvania camp but if you're walking into this game expecting a Metroidvania, you're expecting good combat as well.

Click to shrink...

They do? Nothing about a Metroidvania presupposes great combat.

 

[Deleted member 873]

Ori is not about its combat. It's almost a non-violent game, all about the exploration.

Super Metroid also had combat but it was not about it.

 

[Stoze]

Because it is often billed as a Metroidvania and those almost always have good combat.

I personally agree that Ori is a platformer and is, for me at least, first and foremost in that genre more than it is in the Metroidvania camp but if you're walking into this game expecting a Metroidvania, you're expecting good combat as well.

Click to shrink...

Metroidvania or "Abilikey" is more of a game structure or design ideology than it is a genre, and if people go in expecting it to play like Castlevania or whatever I think that's their own fault.

Also having played a ton of Metroidvanias, I vehemently disagree with the idea that those "almost always have good combat".

 

[TheKeyPit]

You don't have to engage in the "combat".

The game also unfortunately seems to be artificially difficult

Click to shrink...

No.

 

[ryushe]

They do? Nothing about a Metroidvania presupposes great combat.

Click to shrink...

Absolutely. Next to getting lost in a world, the combat (and how much you grow to be more successful at said combat) is the entire point of the genre.

 

[Cantaim]

Really enjoyed my time with Ori though I didn't finish it. Played it for around 5 hours and got to the one section of the world with all the lava and I gave up there. Just wasn't feeling it anymore. Will more then likely pick up the next Ori game when it comes out. I just have that much faith in the devs haha

 

[jaymzi]

Yeah I never really got the love for this game. Was a decent Metroidvania, that's about it. Doesn't come anywhere near close to the greats of the genre.

 

[JudgmentJay]

The combat is definitely mediocre and the low point of the game; however, that doesn't stop it from being a 10/10 masterpiece. As others have said, it's much more of a platformer than a metroidvania.

Really excited to see what they did with the combat in Will of the Wisps.

 

[AgeEighty]

It's like this is 2002 and I'm reading a thread about Prince of Persia: Sands of Time. The complaints about the "combat" in a platformer missed the point just as much then.

 

[giapel]

Also having played a ton of Metroidvanias, I vehemently disagree with the idea that those "almost always have good combat".

Click to shrink...

True. Most have really basic combat. Problem is Ori has bad combat where you have to actively avoid any encounter because it's just not fun.

 

[DailyCalmSpirit]

I wish they'd put it out on PS4. It's the only console with a good D-Pad and I can't play these types of games without one.

 

[lvl 99 Pixel]

Absolutely. Next to getting lost in a world, the combat (and how much you grow to be more successful at said combat) is the entire point of the genre.

Click to shrink...

To you maybe. Its always been a genre about exploration as well as your character growing more adept in doing so, in which this game does largely through its very well designed movement mechanics.

Honestly just sounds a lot like the whole "games shouldn't be like movies" criticism that keeps happening on repeat. Genres and mediums being restricted to narrow specifications that adhere to one players preferences just reads like narcissism.

 

[ryushe]

Metroidvania or "Abilikey" is more of a game structure or design ideology than it is a genre, and if people go in expecting it to play like Castlevania or whatever I think that's their own fault.

Click to shrink...

Well, preconvived ideologies aside, I also think Ori is a poor Metroidvania because of how linear it is. So it being linear with bad combat didn't win it any favors with me.

Also having played a ton of Metroidvanias, I vehemently disagree with the idea that those "almost always have good combat".

Click to shrink...

I also play a ton of Metroidvanias and while there are definitely standouts (Hollow Knight, Valdis Story, Guacamelee), every Metroidvania I've played had at the very least good combat.

It's the secondary whole point of the entire genre.

 

[Odeko]

I totally agree OP. Ori is beautiful and has incredible music and some great ideas for power-ups, but the combat and exploration is so lacking that it really brings down the whole experience. I really hope Ori 2 spends some more time on those aspects to bring them up to the level of quality as the rest of the game, since exploration in particular is pretty essential to the genre.

and that's why anyone who says Ori is better than Hollow Knight is clearly mistaken

 

[Shpeshal Nick]

It never came out on 360. The 360 version was quietly cancelled and it only released on Xbox One

 

[RedOnePunch]

I don't think it's all that great either. Never finished it on PC so I decided to play again on the switch and lost interest quickly.

 

[Fortinbras]

It's ok to not like a game as much as others do. I think Hollow Knight is bad and I will never understand why people like it but people like it.

 

[JadedGhost]

Just weighing in... your post was actually very well written Op and had a lot of detailed discussion...

Having been a lover of platformers and metroidvanias for decades (old gamer here) I think it is the best hybrid of both genres i have ever played. If you tilt too much one way (combat or platforming) I believe the other areas suffer with a lack of focus or purpose. It is hard to pull off both and I think Ori does it sublimely. The traversal mechanics are "the game" and that is why the combat is never used as a building block much like in other metroidvanias (ie. Axiom verge)

The only other game in genre this current gen that comes close to nailing its purpose is "Hollow Knight" which is a much more zoned in, difficult, metroidvania game. Its combat is amazing and has great movement but its platforming is nowhere near as detailed and focussed on the experience as Ori... which is fine as it's a different wonderful beast. No need to compare them or state which is better. They are both number 1 in their own respective sub genres. I think it would be hard to go between thesd two games back to back.

Ori is a relatively hard game and the one thing that it does better than other "similar" games is appeal to both hardcore and casual gaming audiences due to its focus on platforming first and foremost rather than difficult evolving combat/weapon mechanics. You die alot but it is never a turn off as you are aware of exactly what to do and how to execute.

I see a lot of people come to the party after years of hype and try to value a game by comparing it to another. Just let the game be what it wants to be and judge it with flexible guidelines made by yourself rather than others. You will enjoy it a whole lot more and if its still not for you.. that's okay!! Maybe platformer based metroidvanias arent your cup of tea!

All personal opinion :)

 

[gogosox82]

Ori is one of those games were people rave about it and I say "well its ok but I don't see what it does that makes it gotg worthy".

 

[Huey]

i agree it's hard and can even be frustrating but the way the mechanics of platforming evolve with new abilities over the course of the game result in the player executing some absolutely incredible stuff by the end of the game. coupled with the incredible art, world and story, it all came together as definitely one of my favourites of the generation. The combat is certainly it's weakest aspect though, hard to argue with that

 

[eXistor]

I never even made it that far, but I agree. I've really tried to pay the game a few times now and every time I just give up after a few hours because it's just not engaging. Other recent Metroidvania's like Momodora, Axiom Verge or Hollow Knight had me hooked literally within minutes of starting it, but Ori just doesn't click with me.

 

[Jeffrey Guang]

I think you should think of it as a platformer instead of metroidvania.
The point the not really the combat but flow of movement.
Have you gotten "that movement mechanic" yet. In my opinion it changed the whole game.

 

[eXistor]

As others have said, it's much more of a platformer than a metroidvania..

Click to shrink...

This was my impression as well, but I didn't want to mention it because I never made it that far into the game (Maybe 2 hours). It barely even felt like a Metroidvania to me, just a linear platformer. That's not necessarily a knock against the game, but people always say it's one of the best Metroidvania's. Maybe it becomes one later on?

 

[Deleted member 8688]

It's ok but personally I think there have been several better metroidvanias this gen.

The vertical chase sequences are annoying AF and soured me on the game quite a bit.

 

[Cup O' Tea?]

I wish they'd put it out on PS4. It's the only console with a good D-Pad and I can't play these types of games without one.

Click to shrink...

I feel you. The lack of decent dpads this generation is really frustrating given the plethora of outstanding 2D games being released these days.

 

[Deleted member 20852]

A lot of comments here pointing out it's a platformer first and foremost. I think this is a very good point and probably calls for more accurate labeling of 2D platformers with continuous maps. There are games like Ori or, say, Guacamelee, which are heavily based on platforming challenges. Then there are games that have what I'd call Zelda-like dungeons in 2D "Metroidvania" space, like Monster Boy and the Cursed Kingdom or Shantae and the Pirate's Curse. The dungeons are a part of the map, but feel like isolated areas you can complete by solving the puzzles and killing the boss. I feel Ori does this to, but maybe to a lesser extent. Neither of these are really present in Metroid. Those games are more about exploration of a complex, inter-connected map, power-ups and boss fights.

 

[Deleted member 46489]

I honestly find this post baffling. I thought the number of hits you could take from enemies (especially after upgrades to your health) was ridiculously forgiving. It actually annoyed me a bit cause it allowed me to play messily and still get through.

I haven't played Cuphead, but Mario (in his early games) dies in one hit (at max two hits). Spelunky can also be pretty brutal in that respect. You also die in one hit in Limbo. And in Super Meat Boy. Shovel Knight allows you to upgrade your health, but can be pretty difficult despite that.

I guess Ori is just not for you. And that's fine. Plenty of other games you can play and enjoy.

 

[nogoodnamesleft]

It's legitimately one of the best games of the generation tbh

 

[Techno]

Combat is good enough imo, that's not really the focus of the game. With that said I like what they've shown of the second game, seems like there are some new combat mechanics. I personally loved the chase sequences, everything just clicks once you get the hang of it.

Anyway, Ori is one of my favourite games ever.

 

[RedRum]

$8 masterpiece on steam right now. 96% of reviews on steam have been positive in the last 30 days.

The other 4% are in this thread. Can't take ERA enthusiasts seriously.

 

[Genetrik]

I fully agree with you OP. I am now probably in the last part of the game and despite being beautiful it doesn't hold a candle against Hollow Knight.

Was anyone else disappointed after the initial story part and right when the game really starts, that the camera was now so far away that I lost my emotional connection to the game?