- High Critical Reception
- High Box Office Returns
- High Audience Score (Cinemascore: A)
- Ranked 3rd for Best SW Film on SW.com
-"Divisive" amongst "fans."
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Oscar Nominee Rian Johnson on ‘Knives Out’ Sequel and His Future With ‘Star Wars’
- Thread starter DiipuSurotu
- Start date
- High Critical Reception
- High Box Office Returns
- High Audience Score (Cinemascore: A)
- Ranked 3rd for Best SW Film on SW.com
-"Divisive" amongst "fans."
the last jedi isn't divisive, calling the last jedi divisive is divisive
mostly because of the people who don't want to come to grips with the former
mostly because of the people who don't want to come to grips with the former
Are we really doing the stupid thing where we claim you aren't a real fan if you didn't like it?
I like how part of the argument for not having Rian Johnson do another Star Wars (in addition to "he could make anything at any studio now!" concern for his career, and a sudden interest in diversifying SW directors beyond white men which I guess wasn't a concern for episode IX) is that Lucasfilm should hire someone who can unite the fandom. Putting aside that that'll never happen no matter who they hire or what movie they make, a mission statement of uniting all the fans shouldn't be part of the calculus in creating a story. The drive should be for the filmmakers to tell a story they're most interested in and passionate about, that they think is good and worth telling and adding to the SW canon. And whoever's on board with that is on board, and whoever isn't isn't. But going out of your way to throw all possible manner of fans a bone is a wrong-headed way to go about creating a story and a movie. Fanservice often backfires anyway, so why bother?
Nah, the quotes indicate the idea that TLJ is divisive amongst real "fans." Thus, you can't use positive critical or audience scores since those aren't "fans," the only fans are those that believe TLJ is bad or divisive. You can be a fan and not like TLJ, it's not a perfect film. But, that doesn't mean you represent the majority of fandom.
No, the Rise of Skywalker is everything haters asked for:
1) 80 seconds of Rose screen time
2) The gang's all back together
3) Reverence for lightsabers
4) ReyLo
5) Regurgitation of Palpatine
6) Lineage and importance of Rey
Don't willfully ignore the obvious then try to blanket yourself in a shroud of intellectual honesty. It's...not hard. TROS is the film that TLJ haters asked for. They got it.
JGL is indeed awesome, but he was pretty terrible in TLJ.
- How does Rose having little screen time contribute to making the movie a disappointment? Like, sure you can assume that the reason that was given for her playing a small role in the movie was a blatant lie, and it was done to appease toxic fans. But she was never an important character either way, so why you think her having a small role is something that contributed to the movie being a disappointment I can't quite grasp
- How does the gang being together contribute to making the movie a disappointment, and why does wanting that make you a TLJ hater? As far as I can tell even many of the people that love TLJ agree that having Finn go off on his own sidequest in TLJ was the weakest part of TLJ. Them being together and interacting was one of the nicer things about the TROS.
- I have no idea what you mean by reverence for light sabers. Honestly the first time I've seen this mentioned as a thing.
- People that wanted ReyLo to be a thing are TLJ haters now? What? That's called shipping, it happens with practically all characters in all pieces of entertainment. Has nothing to do specifically with people that hate TLJ. If anything I imagine people that wanted ReyLo to be a thing liked TLJ and the relationship of the two in that movie
- Bringing back Palpatine was pretty much the only thing they could have done after Snoke was killed off in TLJ. People "wanted" Palpatine back because TLJ killed of the emperor like villain, and Kylo was never gonna work as a main villain despite what some think. Pretending people wanting him back was primarily TLJ haters is also pretty damn disingenuous. Him coming back was one of the main thing people got hyped about early on when that first trailer released
- I agree with you on this
Honestly the only one of your points I can recognize as being something that was primarily called for by TLJ haters, is Rose and the Rey lineage stuff. And of those two thing, only the lineage stuff actually has any notable impact on TROS
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Nah. They had Adam Driver; one the the most talented actors of his generation playing the main villain. Given the right material he could have carried the entire movie. Bringing back palpatine was a creative bankrupt decision and shows a total lack of faith in the new generation of characters.
These people are paid millions and are considered professional writers and TROS is the best shit they came up with?
L.M.A.O.
She was a major character in TLJ and Finn's moral compass. His arc would not have worked without the inclusion of Rose. So yes she was a important character.
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LOL saying the only thing you could do is bring back Palpatine.
Maybe if your an uncreative Hollywood writer
Maybe if your an uncreative Hollywood writer
I hope he does both of these things. Knives Out was one of the best movies I saw this year and definitely the best movie I have seen from him. And as much as I do not think the Last Jedi is a very good movie (not bad necessarily just nowhere near as good as some people make it out to be) I would love to see what he could do with a trilogy that he has complete control over from the start. Something far separated from the "Skywalker saga".
Talented Adam Driver who has like one line in the latter half of the movie.
really pissed me off
If TLJ had ended with Kylo Ren in a place mentally where it felt like he could be the big baddie in the last movie I'd agree. But TLJ ends with him looking like an angry fool that couldn't possibly be taken seriously as a leader of the First Order
Kylo Ren does not need to be Darth Vader 2.0 to be a interesting villain.
Irreparable harm? This is a franchise that survived the prequels. In those films Darth Vader was talking about how much he was afraid of sand.
His poor suitability for the Supreme Leader role could have led to some excellent drama. Not every Star Wars trilogy needs to end with the baddest guy in the galaxy being confronted in the throne room.
Yep. An unstable person in a position of power quick to anger. That's not terrifying or compelling at all.
You know what makes a great antagonist. Someone who claims to be a machiavellian genius yet we have no access to their thoughts and is clearly making things up as they go along. "Kill the girl. No bring the girl to me. Kill me girl. Wait you're a force Dyad? I'll just do that instead and lighting everyone to death."
Fucking WHAT? No, it was not the only thing they could do. How about, you know, you actually finish the arc of the best villain and actor Star Wars has ever had in Kylo Ren/Adam Driver?
Also, show me someone who loved TLJ that was legitimately excited for Palp. Not "This is going to be a train wreck lets see what they do." Or "This is a mess but I'm day one for the memes"
Even if you're intent on staying in SW incredibly small OT focused sandbox bringing back Palp makes no sense. Every time we've seen an apprentice kill their master the apprentice takes over and starts the cycle anew. They don't go out and find someone else to be subservient to.
I have some significant issues with TLJ but I thought it set up a "Resistance builds upon Luke's sacrifice to rally what's left of the Republic and rest of the galaxy against a First Order torn apart by infighting between Kylo and Hux/allies" story pretty well, which (if done well, of course) would have been a lot more interesting than the crap we got in ROS, and would have offered something different than yet another throne room confrontation with Palpatine with a space battle going on outside (and the Exegol space battle was terrible, too).
I really don't understand how you can think bringing back Palpatine was the "only" thing they could do after TLJ.
I really don't understand how you can think bringing back Palpatine was the "only" thing they could do after TLJ.
It's funny because RJ already did a throne room confrontation with stuff happening outside on TLJ. It's like JJ was like NO I WANT TO DO THAT
You have no creativity or imagination if, following TLJ, a movie I've admittedly grown to dislike over time despite initially having a ton of praise, you think Palpatine was the only thing you could do going forward. There is always a choice. Why? Because it's up to a person's imagination to come up with the idea. There is no finite number of ideas. You cannot reasonably say something so stupid as "Palpatine was the only thing they could've done," regardless of your opinion of TLJ. You can't say that about anything when it comes to fiction because at the end of the day, the only limit is your inability to imagine.
Nah got to bring back a dead villain who has no connections/dynamics or developments with our main cast because reasons.
This.
The notion that "Bringing back Palps was the only thing JJ could've done after TLJ" is something I've been seeing more and more often lately, and it's horseshit. It perfectly shows the lack of imagination that SW fans are used to after being fed the same shit over and over for decades.
Bringing back Palps was basically the creators admitting that their audience is incapable of ingesting new material and new ideas, which I don't necessarily blame Disney for. Alot of Star Wars fandom is trash.
The theorizing of media has kind of ruined people's ability to enjoy a story. They watched TFA and saw everyone was just a stand-in for OT characters and mapped out the ST in their heads. "Kylo has to kill the emperor and be redeemed in episode 3! You messed it up RJ."
This rigid way of consuming media is one of the reasons comic book movies are so popular. For the people who care about theorizing they KNOW Cap will wield mjolnir and yell 'Avengers Assemble!'. People just like being comfortable and watching stories they already know play out.
I think a big part of why the backlash persisted is that many can't accept they aren't in the majority. Their hate isn't widely shared
I hope all those clever "Nah bringing Palpatine back was totally avoidable" people realize that Palpatine's return was already set in stone when they did TLJ. When Snoke lifts Rey in the air, it plays Palpatine's theme for a reason.
One day, RJ will confirm that when he made TLJ he already knew about Palpatine and a lot of folks will look very stupid.
More on-topic, gotta see Knifes Out eventually to find out what the hype about RJ's work is. He sure seems like an extremely likeable guy and he had some great ideas for TLJ, but there's so much stupid stuff in it that kind of contradicts his supposed genius.
One day, RJ will confirm that when he made TLJ he already knew about Palpatine and a lot of folks will look very stupid.
More on-topic, gotta see Knifes Out eventually to find out what the hype about RJ's work is. He sure seems like an extremely likeable guy and he had some great ideas for TLJ, but there's so much stupid stuff in it that kind of contradicts his supposed genius.
This shows a complete lack of imagination at best and is factually wrong at worst.
lol, ok guys. "Amazing" is a pretty strong word to describe the universal reception of The Last Jedi. Sorry to burst your bubbles. It's generally positively received but even its most glowing reviews have to cede that there are missed opportunities, cheesy scenes, and glaring flaws. We will not remember Canto Bight, Leia Poppins, or the kiss-and-faint favorably ever, and other elements will remain divisive, such as Sad Luke and the Holdo plot/maneuver. I know you know this, but if you won't admit it, I'm not sure why you feel like you can confidently post to others about "deluding" themselves.
- Since when was "giving an entire plot all their own" a good thing to do to a black co-protagonist? What kind of separate-but-equal shit are you advocating for here?
- This is after a movie where he was teased as a black force user in the posters and trailers, an arc that was totally dropped on the floor and had to be picked back up in TRoS.
- Instead, what TLJ does to Finn is rob him of his agency (he goes from being locked in a cell by Rose to being lectured to by Rose to being crashed into by Rose), separate him from the main plot, sever his connection to the main protagonist, and leave his development as a person in complete stasis.
- There is not a single black person in the cast of Knives Out. I didn't even think it was possible to do that nowadays, but This Specific Guy somehow pulled it off.
Look, I was excited for the teasers that seemed to be hinting at a black force using protagonist ahead of TFA's release, and was very disappointed by the end of TLJ. And why wouldn't I be? John Boyega himself has expressed the same thing. You can dismiss all this and just tell people to be happy with their b-plot nonsense, but given that JJ picked up the force sensitivity thread in TRoS, it's hard not to call out Rain on this one. How about you just reflect on that instead of posting sassy bullshit to me, thanks.
Fake news. I am not gonna even read the rest of your post.
Would be prolly like talking to a brick wall.
I haven't seen it but if I'm wrong, the black character is apparently so minor they aren't even on a poster with 11 other people on it, so... Shruggie.
I would absolutely love if they had him back for an original Star Wars story, but at this point I'd be equally as happy to get more original-original stuff from him. I loved TLJ dearly but my overall Star Wars fandom has really taken a hit over the last couple years lol
[Was going to edit in the KO poster here but was beaten to it lol]
[Was going to edit in the KO poster here but was beaten to it lol]
Uh huh. I'm sure he must have been criticial to the movie - or at least, the 12th most important character at worst, right?
Man, Lakeith is awesome, too, that's a shitty thing to do to him.
You're a moron. That the picture of the in universe family with the grand fathers nurse. Notice how Daniel Craig isn't there either.
Sure, I'm a "moron" for not knowing "the in universe family with the gran fathers nurse" in a movie I haven't seen because I posted literally the most publicized cast photo that is also literally the first image you see when googling "Knives Out."
I'm happy the TLJ fans found a technicality in my post that lets them continuing to stan for Rian, but if you really think he's a great steward of black characters, ask John Boyega about it.
The image you posted is the family portrait. He's not in the family, so he's not in that photo. I don't know what to tell you other than that (Daniel Craig isn't in that photo for similar reasons). His character is in nearly every scene with Craig since he is a police detective helping in the case. You can read the script here and see all of his lines if you want: https://lionsgate.brightspotcdn.com/fb/14/23cd58a147afbb5c758ecb3dff0a/knivesout-final.pdf
Why would you talk with such confidence about a movie you haven't even seen?
Lmao all that only to clown yourself with " I haven't seen knives out it has no black people". Keep doubling tripling and quadrupling down. Sass is all clown posts like yours deserve, keep whining into that void though
Yes, you certainly are a moron for speaking with certainty about something you apparently only have the most basic of surface-level knowledge about
Stop giving attention to bad faith actors trying to hijack the issues black people face in Hollywood in order to "prove" an asinine point about a movie that hurt their feelings.
Did TFA even hint that Finn was force sensitive? It seems that only the trailers did that.
Everyone involved with the sequel trilogy is to blame for how they handled Finn's character. TRoS did him little favor as he literally doesn't do anything but thirst for a white girl in it.
Everyone involved with the sequel trilogy is to blame for how they handled Finn's character. TRoS did him little favor as he literally doesn't do anything but thirst for a white girl in it.