I guess this is just something so that we can point on to say, "well at least we're doing something."
I mean, I signed it, but I'm not under the illusion that this is more than just that.
Our gaming hardware is linked to slave labour, concentration camps and genocide. Here's what to do about it.
- Thread starter Salient_Lion
- Start date
I mean, I signed it, but I'm not under the illusion that this is more than just that.
Not strictly gaming consoles related but I spent hours researching smoke detectors today that I needed for my house. But researching into the ones I really wanted, found out they were made in China. China has flooded Amazon with their products that look fancy and legit. Eventually opted for the slightly more expensive ones made in USA by Kidde. A year or two ago I would have bought the Chinese ones without much thought.
Oh well. I am doing my part and will continue to do so. Really making an effort to avoid Made in China where ever I can.
Oh well. I am doing my part and will continue to do so. Really making an effort to avoid Made in China where ever I can.
I mean, I get the point "no ethical consumption under capitalism" and I'm not here to blame people for buying stuff. But it feels like an attempt to have their cake and eat it.
You can't have a thread pinned about slavery in working camps to make hardware and on the very same page threads celebrating said hardware sales or announcement of the new RTX, PS5, Switch Pro, Series X, whatever hot new gadget coming/selling.
It's downright insulting. It's even more insulting with all those threads complaining about "not enough stocks being produced".
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I found it helpful around the time of the Cyberpunk 2077 launch that the OT and other major threads related to that game all had prominent disclaimers at the top of each thread, outlining CDPR's history concerning trans people and linking to a specific thread detailing the issue in depth. I found it informative and it helped make it an easy decision for me to not buy that game (in addition to all its glaring technical problems). Perhaps something like that for hardware-related threads from companies implicated in forced Uighur labour might be good?
Thank you. Added to the OP.
I mean, Resetera is a pretty big online presence as far as videogame communities go, right? What if we just went all in and refused to buy from companies that benefit from slave labor?
I know people might dogpile me for this, but consider: One year of boycotting any product from a company that benefits from this inhumane horror. Just one year. Hit your backlog. Explore indies.
What kind of effect would that have?
I know people might dogpile me for this, but consider: One year of boycotting any product from a company that benefits from this inhumane horror. Just one year. Hit your backlog. Explore indies.
What kind of effect would that have?
Negligible. The daily traffic this place gets is probably what Reddit gets in an hour.
If this whole forum just up and stopped, the vast, vast, vast majority of the consumer base wouldn't shift. Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, and Reddit will still drive things, and that's only speaking from the frame of reference of a market where those things are the most relevant. In regions and countries where there's solid alternatives to those, the same would happen.
This board wouldn't move the needle. This place is a niche of a niche of a niche, which is why people are trying to push this into the general consciousness.
Signed and donated $25. I think any who are able should try and donate that amount as well. Spending less than half of the amount of only a single video game should be doable by us here, of those that regularly buy games. Obviously only give if you can responsibly do so.
100% agreed. That is what I donated as well. If you regularly spend money on games, you can donate 25 bucks to back this.
When that Reddit thread is made it would help if people leave comments too aswell as upvoting helps push the algorithm toward that thread
Week one update and details of upcoming Reddit push.
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I just sent out a update to the 1,500+ supporters we've currently gathered, thanking them for signing, letting them know about the news item that came up last week (check threadmarks) and asking for support to push this petition on Reddit. If you've signed you've probably received the update in your inbox already, but I wanted to post an overview of the Reddit push here too:
On Thursday 11th March at 9am PST/12pm EST/5pm GMT/6pm CET I will make a post to r/gaming on Reddit, detailing the issue and asking people to support the petition. r/gaming currently has over 29 million subscribers, which is a lot of visibility and potential supporters. Like this thread, the post will be titled 'Our gaming hardware is linked to slave labour, concentration camps and genocide. Here's what to do about it.' It will contain a synopsis of the info in this thread's OP and a link to the petition. It will be edited slightly to conform to r/gaming's submission guidelines.
Set an alert for this date in your calendars. The idea is that if we get enough people to upvote it on Thursday we can keep it on the front page of r/gaming and expose it to the 29 million subscribers for as long as possible. If you can go to r/gaming on Thursday at the correct time in your region and upvote the post (and comment on it too) that will be a huge help. I'll also post a direct link here when the time comes on Thursday. If we are lucky it will take off and people from r/gaming will upvote it too, leading to further exposure.
I'm concerned that the mods of r/gaming might take the post down, even though I will word it to comply with their guidelines as best I can. I'm also concerned there might be some sort of automatic bot moderation that will scan the post for political keywords and take it down as soon as it's posted. If anyone has any insight into this (and how to avoid having the post removed) then please feel free to share.
Hopefully this will work.
On Thursday 11th March at 9am PST/12pm EST/5pm GMT/6pm CET I will make a post to r/gaming on Reddit, detailing the issue and asking people to support the petition. r/gaming currently has over 29 million subscribers, which is a lot of visibility and potential supporters. Like this thread, the post will be titled 'Our gaming hardware is linked to slave labour, concentration camps and genocide. Here's what to do about it.' It will contain a synopsis of the info in this thread's OP and a link to the petition. It will be edited slightly to conform to r/gaming's submission guidelines.
Set an alert for this date in your calendars. The idea is that if we get enough people to upvote it on Thursday we can keep it on the front page of r/gaming and expose it to the 29 million subscribers for as long as possible. If you can go to r/gaming on Thursday at the correct time in your region and upvote the post (and comment on it too) that will be a huge help. I'll also post a direct link here when the time comes on Thursday. If we are lucky it will take off and people from r/gaming will upvote it too, leading to further exposure.
I'm concerned that the mods of r/gaming might take the post down, even though I will word it to comply with their guidelines as best I can. I'm also concerned there might be some sort of automatic bot moderation that will scan the post for political keywords and take it down as soon as it's posted. If anyone has any insight into this (and how to avoid having the post removed) then please feel free to share.
Hopefully this will work.
Yes, this is a good point. Please upvote and comment.
I support this idea, and it's something I can mention in a future petition update too.
I don't have a Reddit account, but I wish you the best of luck, Salient_Lion. I'll post an update on my Discord servers to alert those who do have Reddit accounts, though.
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lol, reset gets sub 1% of the volume a site like reddit gets
micro consumer trends have no impact. a staple free market lie. govt regulation and in this case sanctions coupled w international govt pressure that adversely affect them is the only thing that will ever impact this situation. at least the new administration does acknowledge openly that what is happening to the uighur is genocide. you would hope this acknowledgement will lead to action.
Yeah I have been accurately corrected on my misapprehension of scale in regard to our little community. And thank you for solidifying that.
I guess I am just wondering what WE could do even on a small scale. Like, if a thing matters to you, don't you just do what matters?
Edit: I am buying nothing from any of the companies benefiting from slave labor. Ever again. But even though this post will be seen by a small portion of the Reddit viewers, it's still useful if it affects one.
Landmark US legal report: CCP has breached every single article of UN genocide convention in its treatment of Uighurs.
China breaching every article in genocide convention, says legal report on Uighurs
Thinktank publishes first non-governmental legal examination of China’s actions in Xinjiang
www.theguardian.com
The report
The Uyghur Genocide: An Examination of China's Breaches of the 1948 Genocide Convention - Newlines Institute
This report is the first independent expert application of the 1948 Genocide Convention to the ongoing treatment of the Uyghurs in China.
newlinesinstitute.org
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I hope this means everyone can not decide to ignore the problem, self included.China breaching every article in genocide convention, says legal report on Uighurs
Thinktank publishes first non-governmental legal examination of China’s actions in Xinjiang
The report
The Uyghur Genocide: An Examination of China's Breaches of the 1948 Genocide Convention - Newlines Institute
This report is the first independent expert application of the 1948 Genocide Convention to the ongoing treatment of the Uyghurs in China.
What is needed is a supply chain law https://english.bdi.eu/article/news/towards-a-european-supply-chain-law/
The German government will bring one into parliament later this year, but it's a joke.
It is so shallow, that sub-companies are not considered into it and can stil do every shit they want.
Because this isn't a video game industry problem, but a problem of the capitalistic system.
The German government will bring one into parliament later this year, but it's a joke.
It is so shallow, that sub-companies are not considered into it and can stil do every shit they want.
Because this isn't a video game industry problem, but a problem of the capitalistic system.
Contingency plan - If and when you meet resistance in r/gaming consider making a post on r/gamingcirclejerk highlighting the hypocrisy. You might have to frame it to be 'funny' but it'll likely get attention nonetheless.
Yeah, I think as important as it is to raise awareness of these atrocities, money talks. However, I'm woefully ignorant about how these petitions work or what exactly a donation will help to accomplish. Would there be any way to make that more clear for people who wish to contribute? Knowing tangible results always makes an impact.
I'll certainly help upvote the Reddit push.
I was also thinking we should contact these companies individually.
Starting with Sony, I have created this link.
Clicking it will start an email to Lisa Gephardt (Sr. Dir. of Corporate Communications/Sony Corp of America), Cheryl Goodman (Head of Corporate Communications/Sony Electronics), Jennifer Clark (Sr. VP of Communications/Sony Interactive Entertainment), Karen Kelson (VP/Sony Corp of America), Julie Wenzel (Sr. Mgr. of Community Relations/Sony Electronics), and Lani Monos (VP for Global Corporate Social Responsibility/Sony Pictures--wasn't sure whether to include this one but the relevance of her job title seems appropriate).
The subject and body of the email should also prepopulate (with information taken from the petition). Feel free to personalize it before you send it. Also let me know if the link doesn't work.
I was also thinking we should contact these companies individually.
Starting with Sony, I have created this link.
Clicking it will start an email to Lisa Gephardt (Sr. Dir. of Corporate Communications/Sony Corp of America), Cheryl Goodman (Head of Corporate Communications/Sony Electronics), Jennifer Clark (Sr. VP of Communications/Sony Interactive Entertainment), Karen Kelson (VP/Sony Corp of America), Julie Wenzel (Sr. Mgr. of Community Relations/Sony Electronics), and Lani Monos (VP for Global Corporate Social Responsibility/Sony Pictures--wasn't sure whether to include this one but the relevance of her job title seems appropriate).
The subject and body of the email should also prepopulate (with information taken from the petition). Feel free to personalize it before you send it. Also let me know if the link doesn't work.
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Excellent idea, thanks for that. The link works for me, but the links to the ASPI report and summary in the body are left out for me.
Good catch, thanks! I edited the link to just remove that reference so it doesn't get confusing.
I like petitions, but am concerned some will be content that 30 seconds of signing absolves them of any further responsibility or efforts.
A couple of questions and thoughts:
1.) Where are the donations going? I see it says "to distribute the petition" on the change site, but I'd like to understand more what the goal there is.
2.) Is it possible to add additional mechanisms of realizing change to the OP? Because while a petition is a nice thing to do, helping people learn how to write their Representatives, Congressmen and women, and other political leaders -- who are in a position to pressure Bejing -- is probably more important.
3.) Is there any push to actually vote with wallets? The fastest way to help capitalist pigs hear you is to tighten the purse strings. You want to know when the Civil Rights movement really started hitting hard? When people stopped shopping at businesses participating in or otherwise featured in the beatings of protesters. They hear money. The loss of said money hurts them in demonstrable ways. Stop buying games and consoles from companies that can't demonstrate that they have separated themselves and all parts of their products from slavery. If they can't or won't, don't give them another fucking dime.
A couple of questions and thoughts:
1.) Where are the donations going? I see it says "to distribute the petition" on the change site, but I'd like to understand more what the goal there is.
2.) Is it possible to add additional mechanisms of realizing change to the OP? Because while a petition is a nice thing to do, helping people learn how to write their Representatives, Congressmen and women, and other political leaders -- who are in a position to pressure Bejing -- is probably more important.
3.) Is there any push to actually vote with wallets? The fastest way to help capitalist pigs hear you is to tighten the purse strings. You want to know when the Civil Rights movement really started hitting hard? When people stopped shopping at businesses participating in or otherwise featured in the beatings of protesters. They hear money. The loss of said money hurts them in demonstrable ways. Stop buying games and consoles from companies that can't demonstrate that they have separated themselves and all parts of their products from slavery. If they can't or won't, don't give them another fucking dime.
You're paying to advertise the petition. After donating €25, I recieved an email the next day which said all the donations for this petition together lead to 36k extra petition views and 670 extra signatures.
This was sunday night btw.
I certainly don't regret donating, but this would not fall under "effective altruïsm". If anyone knows of other organisations to donate to for this cause, I would like to hear it!
I've put together a link to automatically generate an email to Microsoft now, too. It will email the following departments: Media relations, Xbox assembly, Emma Richards (Head of Communications, Asia), Susan Prakasam (Senior Analyst Relations Manager, Asia), Simran Singh Sethi (Consumer Communications Lead, Asia), Joanna Frackowiak (Commerical Communications Lead, Asia), Allison Larkin (Gaming Communications Lead, Asia), Supriya Addanki (Director of Communications, Asia), Elizabeth Greene (Director of Corporate Communications, Australia), and Steffi Cao (Director of Communications, China). I had trouble finding email addresses for any specific US or UK contacts (other than the media relations and Xbox assembly departments), but I can edit the link if anyone knows of any.
So to recap, here are the two links so far:
EMAIL SONY
EMAIL MICROSOFT
So to recap, here are the two links so far:
EMAIL SONY
EMAIL MICROSOFT
Are Nvidia, Amazon, Facebook & Google lumped in here with their hardware? I don't think we should forget them in terms of being platform holders now. Nvidia loosely so, but GeForceNow is still an ecosystem.
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Tried to post the Reddit thread but it was taken down by mods pretty much instantly. I was concerned this might happen.
At work right now, but will update later.
At work right now, but will update later.
Thank you, Run Goku. I've sent the email to Microsoft's people as well. If you need any help gathering other industry names, please let me know.
Cheers! I'll look for Nintendo next, but feel free to contribute any names you can find, and I'll add them in. Can't hurt to cast a wider net.
I'm trying to get contacts for Google's people. Does anyone know how to find the email of Phil Harrison (a VP and general manager of Google)
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So looks like pushing this on r/gaming is not going to happen. A few seconds after the post went live it was taken down. This is infuriating, as the post fully complied with the submission guidelines. I suspect moderation bots scanned the link in the thread to change.org and blocked it based on his, or the content of the post sounding too 'political' to their moderation algorithms.
On the positive side, people are still signing up, even though overall momentum has slowed since last week. If anyone else has any ideas of an effective platform to push this on, or otherwise grow our numbers from the current 2000 supporters, please feel free to say.
One point of feedback: I wonder if it's possible to directly link to the ASPI report (to save the reader for having to search for it) and the petition itself (to show there is some consumer demand to oppose this)? Not sure if mailto allows for this sort of hyperlinking though.
2. Yes, we have a few links in the OP giving people easy access to contact their representatives. Or were you thinking of suggesting some sort of template for people to use when they follow the links to make contact?
3. I agree that boycotts work, but they are significantly harder to organise from scratch. I think one of the advantages of signing a petition and building a mailing list is that it easily gets people emotionally invested in the issue, after which more suggestions and calls for action can take place. We can certainly build out suggestions of other actions people can take, including boycotting companies or non-violent direct action, depending on how much people are willing to give up for the cause.
On the positive side, people are still signing up, even though overall momentum has slowed since last week. If anyone else has any ideas of an effective platform to push this on, or otherwise grow our numbers from the current 2000 supporters, please feel free to say.
This is fantastic, and gives people an easy way to contact these companies. Thank you. I will add these links to the OP.
One point of feedback: I wonder if it's possible to directly link to the ASPI report (to save the reader for having to search for it) and the petition itself (to show there is some consumer demand to oppose this)? Not sure if mailto allows for this sort of hyperlinking though.
1. The donations people are referring to are on change.org, which helps expose the petition to more people on that platform. If you know of any charities directly related to this matter we can link them in the OP too.
2. Yes, we have a few links in the OP giving people easy access to contact their representatives. Or were you thinking of suggesting some sort of template for people to use when they follow the links to make contact?
3. I agree that boycotts work, but they are significantly harder to organise from scratch. I think one of the advantages of signing a petition and building a mailing list is that it easily gets people emotionally invested in the issue, after which more suggestions and calls for action can take place. We can certainly build out suggestions of other actions people can take, including boycotting companies or non-violent direct action, depending on how much people are willing to give up for the cause.
The donations people are referring to here are to push the petition on change.org. If you know of charities directly related to this issue please let me know and I can add them to the OP.
Sorry to hear that the Reddit push didn't quite pan out. I'll think of alternatives in the meanwhile.
Thanks! Unfortunately I can't seem to make mailto work with a link in the body of the email. We could definitely add it in if anyone else knows how.
I thought I'd be able to find this, but there is like...nothing out there. He's on Twitter, apparently, but I'm not very well versed in that platform.
Congrats on 2000!
That being said, is rising the petition signatures still going to be the main objective to drive the media’s attention?
If so, I really don’t understand why the thread’s title still doesn’t have a tag or mention like [Come sign!] or [We need signatures!] or something. The thread seems to have slowed down significantly.
Got 3 members of Era to sign that saw the thread’s pinned but kept postponing a read for “when I’ll have an hour on my hands to dedicate to it” (which then of course almost never happens because you’re going to forget about it - no judgment at all here-). They had no idea there was a petition going.
That being said, is rising the petition signatures still going to be the main objective to drive the media’s attention?
If so, I really don’t understand why the thread’s title still doesn’t have a tag or mention like [Come sign!] or [We need signatures!] or something. The thread seems to have slowed down significantly.
Got 3 members of Era to sign that saw the thread’s pinned but kept postponing a read for “when I’ll have an hour on my hands to dedicate to it” (which then of course almost never happens because you’re going to forget about it - no judgment at all here-). They had no idea there was a petition going.
It would be pretty much impossible to ask people to boycott gaming companies over this. You'd think people would actually let go the ability to get xbox or ps or continue gaming on them because they care about Muslims who built them? Yeah right.
I highly doubt even people who are here in this thread and/or signing the petition would be willing to do it.
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