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DirtyLarry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,113
Yes. The previous model of corporate media inculcated something resembling agreed upon principals and adults were in control operated as moral arbiters. But now you have people bypassing that system and being famous for ??? like Jake Paul; Jake Paul who doesn't know anything about morality becomes that moral authority. Also, I feel like there might be something psychologically instructive about media with a narrative structure vs game streams and YouTube vlogs and endless Instagram stories. I feel like this stuff turns your brain to mush. (Note that corporate media is not faultless: it's inherently conservative, capitalist and facilitates a patriarchal power structure that allows for endless abuse.)

Also, this might be a contrarian position, but: Epic Games isn't faultless here—they created a game with a purposefully designed gameplay loop designed to trigger dopamine reactions and be addictive. It feels immoral to me that gaming companies employ psychologists to make products to exploit people like this.
Thank you for this post, specifically the first paragraph. I started seeing some comments earlier in the thread about how it was no different than people consuming TV, etc., and I was scanning the thread to see if anyone actually pointed out there is a huge difference.

Simply put, YouTube is the wild fucking west. That is the big difference with kids consuming it these days. There is no comparison to kids 20-30 years ago consuming TV instead. Literally the only comparison is they are consuming something. What they are consuming is 2 wildly different mediums. One that was fairly regulated and only a very small percentage had access to, and one where any fucking idiot can post content. It is such a paradigm shift it is insane.
 

Deleted member 388

User Requested Account Deletion
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,813
Politician says games and TV makes people aggressive - Era retaliates, "you're out of touch!".

Twitter poster says Youtuber playing games makes people aggressive - Era becomes "Mothers against Fortnite".

🤔
 

Fallout-NL

Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,718
That mother fucker.



I guess my mind goes towards another point of - Is this the same as how music was treated in the 80s and 90s when parents blamed rock and hip hop for "radicalizing the youth"?

I feel like its not, but the parallels are there it seems.

And video games in general. It's a good question though.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
It's almost like living your entire life online streaming games all day rots your brain and makes you lose all sense of perspective. These people aren't role models and I wouldn't want my kid watching them either (if I had one).
Politician says games and TV makes people aggressive - Era retaliates, "you're out of touch!".

Twitter poster says Youtuber playing games makes people aggressive - Era becomes "Mothers against Fortnite".

🤔
Don't be dense, it's about his behavior which the kid is emulating, not the game. The OP states the kid still plays the game and is now calmer and more rational. Bad faith post.
 

Crocodilelogic

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
728
It's almost like living your entire life online streaming games all day rots your brain and makes you lose all sense of perspective. These people aren't role models and I wouldn't want my kid watching them either (if I had one).

Don't be dense, it's about his behavior which the kid is emulating, not the game. The OP states the kid still plays the game and is now calmer and more rational. Bad faith post.

Has anyone even confirmed this story is even true it sure doesn't sound like it to me. It sounds more like someone on Twitter trying to get browny points and followers. Has this mother /aunt followed up with any proof of her claims?

Not like that will stop the huge hate boner this place has with ninja.
 

ANDS

Banned
Jun 25, 2019
566
I can absolutely see the incredibly impressionable kid emulating their favorite streamer; why wouldn't they. I do think it's a bit of a leap to go from that to "See Ninja is toxic!"

So we should take this one lady's Twitter story as an important data point?

Yes. You can still get estimates from a single data point.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
So we should take this one lady's Twitter story as an important data point?
They might know more than you about what's affecting the behavior of the kid they're raising.
Has anyone even confirmed this story is even true it sure doesn't sound like it to me. It sounds more like someone on Twitter trying to get browny points and followers.

Not like that will stop the huge hate boner this place has with ninja.
Yes let's send some detectives over to her house to confirm this.

Very normal replies in this thread. Totally not a bunch of sealioning and kneejerk defense of fucking NINJA of all people. Known toxic, sexist pos.
 

travisbickle

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,953
I used to watch Fortnite streams a little when I was playing last year, all the streamers get aggressive when they lose. I couldn't tell you, and I think they'd be hard pushed, if it was actually a natural response or played up for the cameras. I sometimes think it's part of the culture now, everything is an over reaction for clicks, but kids watching think its normal to respond in this way. You're sitting in a room on your own getting angry at dots on a screen, it's not normal and shouldn't be encouraged.
 

ANDS

Banned
Jun 25, 2019
566
Very normal replies in this thread. Totally not a bunch of sealioning and kneejerk defense of fucking NINJA of all people. Known toxic, sexist pos.

I mean. . .you did kind of pain ALL streamers with that brush so it's not surprising when you get out equally out of perspective responses. Cohhcarnage is a prolific streamer I wouldn't mind my kid watching. There's tons of other examples that easily shut down this overly broad "watching streams is bad!" line.
 

RingRang

Alt account banned
Banned
Oct 2, 2019
2,442
Yes. You can still get estimates from a single data point.
What kind of estimates are you referring to?

They might know more than you about what's affecting the behavior of the kid they're raising.

Yes let's send some detectives over to her house to confirm this.

Very normal replies in this thread. Totally not a bunch of sealioning and kneejerk defense of fucking NINJA of all people. Known toxic, sexist pos.
Ninja might be exactly what you say he is, but that does not make this one Twitter story any more important that a single person's Twitter story.
 

blacktout

Member
Jan 16, 2018
1,209
After reading the OP, I'm honestly not sure if that 7 year old was emulating Ninja or if Ninja just emulates a 7 year old.
 

Crocodilelogic

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
728
They might know more than you about what's affecting the behavior of the kid they're raising.

Yes let's send some detectives over to her house to confirm this.

Very normal replies in this thread. Totally not a bunch of sealioning and kneejerk defense of fucking NINJA of all people. Known toxic, sexist pos.

You are so angry Jesus I'm just pointing out the chic on twitter trying to gain followers might not be a good source. She is awfully excited about her boosted follower account.

She didn't even post a photos let's see those notes he takes to improve lmao. The story just sounds rediculous and let's be real posting shit like.this is how you get followers now.

You sure seem to love judging others you must be a perfect human to use such strong language about other People you don't even know.
 

Deleted member 179

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,548
You are so angry Jesus I'm just pointing out the chic on twitter trying to gain followers might not be a good source. She is awfully excited about her boosted follower account.

She didn't even post a photos let's see those notes he takes to improve lmao. The story just sounds rediculous and let's be real posting shit like.this is how you get followers now.

You sure seem to love judging others you must be a perfect human to use such strong language about other People you don't even know.
I'd be excited about getting followers too? I'm a human it's a simple pleasure when you see people follow you on social.

You're calling out this poster for judging others but aren't you doing the same by immediately assuming she's lying to get followers?
 

Arkeband

Banned
Nov 8, 2017
7,663
Anyone who's spent any time around people playing League or Fortnite know that some people completely lose their fucking minds when they lose. To be a professional, kid-centric streamer who basically says "let the hate flow through you, it's cool when you rage like a lunatic" is boneheaded to the max, even if that's not what he might have intended.
 

Crocodilelogic

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
728
I'd be excited about getting followers too? I'm a human it's a simple pleasure when you see people follow you on social.

You're calling out this poster for judging others but aren't you doing the same by immediately assuming she's lying to get followers?

Actually no I'm not that "poster" is name calling and being generally toxic over some random twItter post 😂.

I'm pointing out basing a thread on some rando Twitter account just becuase it fits your narrative is a fools errand.
 

McScroggz

The Fallen
Jan 11, 2018
5,973
As somebody who doesn't watch any of these streamers what behavior does Ninja display that is reminiscent of domestic abuse? That's terrifying.
 

Crocodilelogic

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
728
As somebody who doesn't watch any of these streamers what behavior does Ninja display that is reminiscent of domestic abuse? That's terrifying.

Lmao I havent watched ninja much since he left twitch but I'm gonna guess none. People hate him here he could do anything and it would get hated on. The tweet he made was so misconstrued it's hilarious.

Here's a good discussion about it from competitive gamers point of view.



Ninja stuff starts around 28 minutes in I'm not sure if I linked to the timestamp. All the people tripping out in this thread should really check it out.
 

Gaiseric

Member
Aug 4, 2019
188
My nephew is only 2, and I would advise his mother to absolutely ban watching ultra-irresponsible streamers like Ninja.

You put your kid in front of someone like that you're basically spoiling all the hard work you're doing raising him/her.
 

deepFlaw

Knights of Favonius World Tour '21
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,496
Politician says games and TV makes people aggressive - Era retaliates, "you're out of touch!".

Twitter poster says Youtuber playing games makes people aggressive - Era becomes "Mothers against Fortnite".

🤔

It's almost like there's a difference between a kid watching violence on TV and a kid watching a real person that they feel overly connected to who's setting a bad example for them!

Like you can't argue for "separating fiction from reality" when it's literally just a real person doing whatever they want...
 

Zero315

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,193
There are tacky fucking Ninja-licensed headbands for sale at Toys R Us. You can't hand-wave away his shitty bevahiour with "oh, kids that age shouldn't be watching him."

We've gone from Ninja Turtles to just Ninja. I wouldn't say that's a step up.
Yep, people keep saying that kids shouldn't be watching Ninja but...

GUEST_8219c340-4e78-4d47-865c-5b5859b8271c

GUEST_89842e40-5fbf-4d73-8ade-9fdcf31c38d3

GUEST_7d513960-a67f-4aea-9e61-b28086b2c63e

GUEST_25eff15c-2195-42d9-b539-5bb8145fea0e


Ninja is directly marketing himself to kids. These are all from the Target website and he has a dedicated section in the toy aisles at the one I frequent.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,813
Obviously not every time but I've seen videos where he does.
Thanks. Today I can say "I don't understand that behavior", but back when I was playing SF2T and Soul Calibur rather competitively with my friends, I fully admit that I may have raged and thrown a controller... or two. LOL Hopefully we grow out of this, right? :)
 

Instro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,015
The quoted story seems kind of dumb. They have a 7 year old who is acting like a shit, and instead of punishing him they attempt to talk and rationalize with him like he is twice his age. Is it so shocking that when they finally did punish him by taking away something he likes, he suddenly started acting better?
 

Deleted member 36578

Dec 21, 2017
26,561
Thanks. Today I can say "I don't understand that behavior", but back when I was playing SF2T and Soul Calibur rather competitively with my friends, I fully admit that I may have raged and thrown a controller... or two. LOL Hopefully we grow out of this, right? :)
I grew up with two younger brothers and some of our fighting game sessions definitely got us heated, so I can relate :p
 

Nocturno

Member
Oct 27, 2017
860
Dude gives terrible advice to children on how to handle defeat.

Can't blame any parent for doing this.
 

ReginaldXIV

Member
Nov 4, 2017
7,801
Minnesota
I mean. . .you did kind of pain ALL streamers with that brush so it's not surprising when you get out equally out of perspective responses. Cohhcarnage is a prolific streamer I wouldn't mind my kid watching. There's tons of other examples that easily shut down this overly broad "watching streams is bad!" line.

Cohh is generally fine, until he starts talking about topics that doesn't relate to video games. Then he gets very "all lives matter!" and goes wild on defending police, which is unfortunate.
 

Suedemaker

Linked the Fire
Member
Jun 4, 2019
1,776
As somebody who doesn't watch any of these streamers what behavior does Ninja display that is reminiscent of domestic abuse? That's terrifying.
I don't watch him (or streamers in general really) but most of the clips I find are of him just screaming "NOOOOO" and saying "are you out of your mind" a lot. Which....overreactions for sure but not something that emulates domestic abuse. Of course, just searching for rage videos ends up with those put up by fans that showcase the "funny" reactions and not the toxic behavior.

Then there are instances like these, which don't get clipped and shared as much



While it's easy for us to tell he was amused by the "lata bitch" and was saying his stuff in jest, to an impressionable kid (especially one with a history of abuse) it comes off as "This is how people react to things"



This one is just bad and clearly along the lines of domestic abuse (not all abuse is physical, obviously)
 

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,597
Cologne (Germany)
It genuinely frightens me how many young children are just absorbing hours of YouTube and twitch.
Yeah, it was probably better to grow up without this stuff. I've seen a lot of trash on German TV in the 90s but it wasn't any right-wing hate, conspiracy theories or other bullshit.

I wouldn't allow my kids to watch YouTube or have a PC with internet access.
 

oreomunsta

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,342
As somebody who doesn't watch any of these streamers what behavior does Ninja display that is reminiscent of domestic abuse? That's terrifying.

I think the point was that the boy sees a lot of similarities between his father and Ninja, not that all of Ninja's behaviour is to be considered abusive. The boy looked up to Ninja, while Ninja exhibited behaviour similar to the father who also posed issues when interacting with his son

The boy and the father would play Fortnite together, as well, so we can see how the boy's ties to the game and Ninja get even deeper

I blame the parents. 7 years olds shouldn't play PEGI 12 games.

This isn't wrong at face value, but as the twitter thread pointed out, all of the boy's friends play Fortnite. Banning FN altogether would have lead to the boy having difficulties sharing interests with his peers, and if the twitter author is to be believed, the boy does demonstrate acceptable emotional responses to a loss in FN when Ninja's influence is taken out of the equation

I think it's fine for the boy to play FN as long as it's done in an appropriate manner. I think many people who played games since being young have played a game out of their age range at some point or another, and it's okay depending on what kind of content the game has
 

foxbeldin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
747
You're not wrong, but it doesn't work like a switch as explained from the twitter thread.

Good parenting is way harder than us without kids like to imagine, and people like Ninja isn't helping it either
I have a 6 years old. He's not allowed to play fn and i avoid playing when he's here/awake. Even if he asked about it. He gets to play minecraft, luigi's mansion and the goose game.
He's also not allowed to watch streamers. (for now).
If he threw such tantrums he'd be barred from playing for a few days.
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
1,932
See , I don't think Ninja should have any responsibility when it comes to monitoring his attitude (within reason of course). He use to break up his streams into family friendly/adult, but i'm not sure if he does that anymore. Streaming is his job so he should maintain some type of professionalism, but he's his own boss in theory. If he wants to scream cuss words, and go baby-rage when he dies, more power to him.

If parents are against it, then they should restrict viewing habits. I don't want him to be someone he's not because a group of kids wondered into his stream. Getting mad and yelling in a video game doesn't make you a bad person. If kids are young enough to where they don't know right from wrong or that it's a game, then they probably shouldn't be visiting these places in the first place.

As Zero315 pointed out, Ninja markets specifically to kids. So you saying that he can do whatever he wants because he's his own boss still doesn't address the issue that a large part of his audience are kids. As people in this thread have already pointed out, YouTube is the wild west compared to TV and other media content that kids have access to. Kids are easily influenced. Of course they're going to pick up on Ninja's bad behaviors. So you can sit there and say that he can do whatever he wants, but that doesn't absolve Ninja of his responsibility to younger viewers that he makes money off of (as shown earlier on this page).

A group of kids didn't wander into his stream. He markets to kids. How do you reconcile the fact that Ninja markets to kids AND makes money from them with your claim that he also shouldn't be responsible for the content he presents to kids?

Well, the aunt in this case removed Ninja as an influence from this kid's life and his behavior improved. So... good parenting. But that doesn't change the fact that Ninja is a bad influence.

Simply put, YouTube is the wild fucking west. That is the big difference with kids consuming it these days. There is no comparison to kids 20-30 years ago consuming TV instead. Literally the only comparison is they are consuming something. What they are consuming is 2 wildly different mediums. One that was fairly regulated and only a very small percentage had access to, and one where any fucking idiot can post content. It is such a paradigm shift it is insane.

The fact that people in this thread refuse to acknowledge this fact is depressing.

Has anyone even confirmed this story is even true it sure doesn't sound like it to me. It sounds more like someone on Twitter trying to get browny points and followers. Has this mother /aunt followed up with any proof of her claims?

Not like that will stop the huge hate boner this place has with ninja.

I mean, we can't necessarily verify the truth of everything online these days. Looking at this woman's other tweets, she's an academic that studies games on some level. She did mention getting more followers, but it also seemed to be expressed with mixed excitement and dread (a reaction a lot of people have when a post of theirs unexpectedly goes viral).

Brownie points? That sounds an awful lot like "virtue signaling." Tell me, what does this Twitter user have to gain in making up a story about her nephew? Getting on the hate train for Ninja just gets her negative attention. Maybe clout isn't the most important thing to everyone out there?

People can criticize Ninja without having a hate boner for him.
 

DirtyLarry

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,113
The fact that people in this thread refuse to acknowledge this fact is depressing.
Ironically enough about 30 minutes after posting, I saw a Vice Motherboard video entitled "YouTube Programming for Children Is Hell." It is not actually on YouTube right now, with a title like that it may never be (I saw it on Facebook), but if this single video does not illustrate how different YouTube is from traditional TV, especially for children, I do not know what does. granted, it is discussing very different content from Ninja, but i does a very good job of illustrating the whole "wild-west" aspect that YT actually is.
If you have Facebook and are interested, this is the link to the video I am talking about.
 

Vexii

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,386
UK
This thread is about the game teaching a child how to cope with explosive emotional outbursts and to develop rational, critical thinking skills and there are so many of you seem to have missed that point, reducing the message to a blanket statement about how the game is unsuitable for minors because the number on the front of the box says so.

is little ironic, no?