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Outer Wilds confirmed EpicStore timed exclusive after luring crowdfundees with a steamrelease. [see EGS guidelines]
- Thread starter Hektor
- Start date
The mindset in these threads is kinda interesting imo. Not saying whos right or whos wrong.
Console: "Is it time for publishers to raise the prices for games?" or my favourite "Nintendo games should never have price drops"
Music: "I cant support spotify when they give such a small share to artists"
PC: "Boycott developers who sellout"
If they are funding anything from the beginning we likely wont know about it until there is something to show. The store hasn't been around that long and if they funded from the beginning since around then it would still be early in development. We probably wouldn't find out for another year depending on how big the project is if that's the case.
I mean, it's there and if you "support" Epic then you have to live with that.
And I stand by that. I'm tired of people telling others who paid money and didnt get what they paid for to "deal with it".
To be fair, I think he's been banned for conduct in EGS threads (could be wrong). So, the mods are pretty equal in handing out the bans.
EGS doesn't support regional pricing in many countries and also charges extra for non-standard payment methods, so while it may sounds sensationalist, it's not exactly untrue.
Lol nope about the middle east part, heck they don't even have regional pricing where I am unlike steam
I'm surprised and disappointed by the kind of behaviour that people are apparently willing to excuse. There's two main points people keep making, so lets deal with them one by one.
First, the claim that just because the Outer Wilds devs didn't "cross my heart, hope to die" swear that the game would come out on Steam, that what they've done is absolutely fine. The devs made statements on a crowdfunding page that any reasonable person would take to mean that the devs would make every effort to release the game on Steam. It is to be expected that anyone considering backing the game would take those statements at face value, and moreover, the devs would know this, and that's why they made them. They didn't just say that they would release on Steam for shits-and-giggles. They did it because being clear about what platforms you're going to release on will make people more comfortable giving you money.
Second, the claim that since it was a crowdfunding campaign backers should have known that they were taking a risk; that backing a game is not the same as a pre-order. That's true as far as it goes, but it can only excuse so much. Backers have every right to expect the devs to make a good faith effort to fulfill the promises they make. If they try and fail, well, that's sad but that's life. If they take all the money, fly to Tahiti, and are never heard from again that is clearly a very different scenario.
Sadly, in this case I feel we're closer to the Tahiti example. Epic essentially came up to the Outer Wilds devs and said "Say, you see those people over there, the ones who were there for you at the very beginning, the ones whose support got you this far? Yeah, here's a huge bag of money and we'll give it to you if you just totally screw them." and the Outer Wilds devs replied "Sure! Sounds fair." There's no world in which that's an ok thing to do.
First, the claim that just because the Outer Wilds devs didn't "cross my heart, hope to die" swear that the game would come out on Steam, that what they've done is absolutely fine. The devs made statements on a crowdfunding page that any reasonable person would take to mean that the devs would make every effort to release the game on Steam. It is to be expected that anyone considering backing the game would take those statements at face value, and moreover, the devs would know this, and that's why they made them. They didn't just say that they would release on Steam for shits-and-giggles. They did it because being clear about what platforms you're going to release on will make people more comfortable giving you money.
Second, the claim that since it was a crowdfunding campaign backers should have known that they were taking a risk; that backing a game is not the same as a pre-order. That's true as far as it goes, but it can only excuse so much. Backers have every right to expect the devs to make a good faith effort to fulfill the promises they make. If they try and fail, well, that's sad but that's life. If they take all the money, fly to Tahiti, and are never heard from again that is clearly a very different scenario.
Sadly, in this case I feel we're closer to the Tahiti example. Epic essentially came up to the Outer Wilds devs and said "Say, you see those people over there, the ones who were there for you at the very beginning, the ones whose support got you this far? Yeah, here's a huge bag of money and we'll give it to you if you just totally screw them." and the Outer Wilds devs replied "Sure! Sounds fair." There's no world in which that's an ok thing to do.
Of course I'm not being serious
I thought I was laying it on thick but I forgot about Poe's Law
For me is that I want to see Valve's dominance of the pc market get challenged. On a personal level I couldn't care less about every single one of the features you list, and like the idea of a more minimal launcher that allows publishers/developers to retain more of the revenue from my purchases.
I think timed exclusives are silly but I can't fault a company for trying to maximize their profit.
What exactly do you mean with Valve having dominance in the PC market?
I'm pretty sure if the original Kickstarter page says launch day on steam then they can argue it, since it will be launch day on EGS
I don't understand why so many people take statements ahead of actual release as gospel.
Until I can hand you money for the product and get it right then, I don't assume any detail beyond say, the core premise, is set in stone. Especially not platforms, PC hardware specs, high-end graphic elements, multiplayer modes, etc.
Of course, if you're going to take money ahead of time, IMO, you gotta provide a way for people to get refunds if the parameters of the product change and they no longer want it.
Until I can hand you money for the product and get it right then, I don't assume any detail beyond say, the core premise, is set in stone. Especially not platforms, PC hardware specs, high-end graphic elements, multiplayer modes, etc.
Of course, if you're going to take money ahead of time, IMO, you gotta provide a way for people to get refunds if the parameters of the product change and they no longer want it.
A lot of the wording on steam versions with Kickstarter like projects comes from the fact that for many years they couldn't guarantee that they're game would be accepted on steam. That was a chance. Now it's incredibly unlikely it wouldn't be, but the very cautious we will do everything we can wording never changed.
They should offer it anyway just to mitigate some of the bad PR. It's not like the previous case hasn't shown us that they can easily afford it now.
Epic isn't """challenging""" Valve's """dominance""" at all. All their doing is taking games I could have got elsewhere, locking them to their own store, and telling me to live with less features and their shitty client.
Fuck that. :)
I believe that they control way too much of the overall pc gaming marketplace. It's getting more competitive now, which I am happy to see.
Yes true, "hey, it's releasing on steam later.....when that happens we will send you a key. For now here is an EGS key to use."
if they want to challenge valve they can do it with competing with actual features. Make people want to use your product given the option, not required to.
Again that takes effort and time that so far it doesn't look like they're willing to commit to.
You didn't explain what they are actually controlling.
Considering before EGS happened we had a ton of other clients that still lives or has died (GOG Galaxy, Origin, UPlay, GFWL, Battle.net, Desura, GMG Client) and tons of different stores that has given users Steam keys when upon purchase since devs and pubs are free to generate as many Steam keys free or charge so stores can sell Steam copies of games.
What exactly has this increased competition brought us so far, if I may be so bold to ask?
Good to know that they could put the files on USB drives and bury them in the desert and some of you would still defend it.
The beauty of PC gaming is that there is an endless backlog of games. So I don't have to think twice when it comes to whether I skip a single game or not.
My bank account thanks Epic for every new moneyhat.
Im in China right now. You know which pub blocks chinese IPs, not even letting them access the store?
Its not Ubisoft.
Its not EA.
Its not Valve.
Its not GOG.
Its not itch.io.
Its not Ubisoft.
Its not EA.
Its not Valve.
Its not GOG.
Its not itch.io.
Higher prices by locking out 3rd party stores, games not being available in china and a weaker launcher.
The store exists already around 4 to 5 years which is long enough to fund and show games. The only thing that hasn't been around that long is their cashcow.
It's good that someone finally dared break the disgusting chokehold Atari has on buried games. COMPETITION will be good for the consumer. Or at least it will probably not be bad for me personally and therefore it's ok.
You are correct, my bad. I should have said making an effort to compete with steam only started recently.
Me too I always wanted to see a company in the PC market removing games from all the other place selling them.
I'll take Valve's dominance over Epic's competition or even the so called competition in the console market where all 3 "competitors" decided to have an online paywall.
He can't, because the notion is laughable. Especially considering the vast majority of Valve's work is open-source and freely shared with the industry at no cost.
Valve also is not holding guns to dev's heads, or money-hatting for games, or demanding exclusivity periods so... In-fact, Valve lets them generate free keys they can sell elsewhere on the net or other stores such as Humble. And Valve see's 0% of that sale.
I'm not sure what answer this person could conjure...
Oh really? So Nintendo, Apple, Sony and Microsoft don't have issues in China as well? Tell me, what exactly was disengenuous about what I said?
It's not when you realize most of them are just here for the chair throwing and trolling. Most don't care about the platform one bit, and it shows.
This is such a bad faith reading of the situation. Do you really think 125k four years ago supported game dev enough that they had "fly to Tahiti" money from this?
This isn't Gearbox just adding an nth million into their piggybank, it's a small unproven dev that likely eeked out another year of development time with the extra funds.
The articles about games being EGS exclusive are probably the marketing department for the EGS, those
Pretending that EGS is competing against Steam from years ago and not 2019 Steam, therefore missing features is OK i.e. the same argument that gets trotted out for the lack of cloud saves or a shopping cart
Also, last I checked, Nintendo and Sony don't run PC game marketplaces, and Apple and MS only run tiny ones that aren't trying to compete with Steam
"More competitive"
Sure Jan.
EGS is really like the Brexit of PC storefronts.
"But competition!"
"No, that's really not how this works, and it actually disadvantages some users in terms of price, features, support and availability"
"Lalalala, that doesn't affect me, break the monopoly! Steam is flooded with garbage!"
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The point is China has its own issues and all those companies have had their own troubles getting products there. Why is letting people know Steam wasn't officially supported in China until June of last year not relevant? To me it shows how difficult it can be getting support in China but like I said, I expect Epic to get there as well but even when they do many still won't want to support Epic.
I would say most care about the content first. We can all act like we're noble but who do you see selling the most consoles and are they the most consumer friendly? If GTA 6 comes to Epic Store only on the PC do you think the majority will ignore it?
Lmao, the hyperbole in this thread.
I hope people do realize that this particular brand of "competition" only leads to a monopoly, right? That's what a race to the bottom does, and this has been Epic's playbook since day 1.
But I'm sure this is all for the benefit of the PC platform and moneyhats will very logically lead Steam to improve, which it clearly needs to do because reasons.
But I'm sure this is all for the benefit of the PC platform and moneyhats will very logically lead Steam to improve, which it clearly needs to do because reasons.
You're right, I should stop picking on the poor little underdog Epic Games, the $15 billion dollar company
It's a shame that being 40% owned by basically the biggest company in China can't do anything to help them.
I understand they can only afford like 5 employees, so of course China (or any of the tons of other countries de facto unsupported b/c those countries don't do online shopping and Epic isn't going where their money is like Steam is) isn't a priority
I'm sure someone held a gun to Tim Sweeny's and the developers' heads when they made them create and sign a contract that didn't include any provisions for Chinese gamers
/s
EGS isn't competing with the Steam of last year, or of 2017, or of 2004 for that matter.
EGS is competing with the Steam that currently exists.
Steam has China support. Epic doesn't.
Steam didn't have cloud saves when it launched back in 2004. It's cool if Epic doesn't have them, yeah? Their scrappy little underdog company is barely scraping by, they couldn't have delayed the launch of their store until they had a half decent feature set
We don't know how much money was involved, and we don't know what the state of their bank account was. If the choice was to release the game as an Epic exclusive or never release the game at all, then that would be a mitigating circumstance, but we have no way to know if that was the case.
All we know for sure is that they took money from Epic, and now the game won't be on Steam for at least another year. For me personally that means that I won't be able to play the game until then, because my main gaming machine at the moment runs Linux. Because of that, I would not have backed the game had they said at the time it would be an Epic exclusive. I think I, and anyone else in similar circumstances, have a right to be a little pissed-off.