Outer Wilds confirmed EpicStore timed exclusive after luring crowdfundees with a steamrelease. [see EGS guidelines]

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
475
The point is China has its own issues and all those companies have had their own troubles getting products there. Why is letting people know Steam wasn't officially supported in China until June of last year not relevant? To me it shows how difficult it can be getting support in China but like I said, I expect Epic to get there as well but even when they do many still won't want to support Epic.
You know that Epic is pro-actively blocking all IPs from China, right? It's not like China told them to stay away.
 

GhostTrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,050
I hope people do realize that this particular brand of "competition" only leads to a monopoly, right? That's what a race to the bottom does, and this has been Epic's playbook since day 1.

But I'm sure this is all for the benefit of the PC platform and moneyhats will very logically lead Steam to improve, which it clearly needs to do because reasons.



Nah. If Epic gets a sizeable marketshare, they'll stop here and be competitive. And then the wealth will trickle down.
 
Oct 27, 2017
881
It's strange that so many people are defending this. Has any of Epic's moneyhatting actually benefited consumers yet? All it seems to have done so far is increase hostility in the PC gaming community.
It's not when you realize most of them are just here for the chair throwing and trolling. Most don't care about the platform one bit, and it shows.
My favorite thing about this situation is that Epic was one of the main propagators of "PC gaming is dying." It's why they took their ball and went to play in the console and iOS space. They spent 10 years salting the earth around an audience they said wasn't worth it until Fortnite blew up. Now they're trying to brute force their way into a market they said wasn't supposed to be around anymore, against the entity that helped stabilize it in the first place.

Anyone defending Epic's practices or how they've handled anything regarding the EGS is either naive or a troll. There's no goodwill here.
 

PaladinXII

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17
you know they could offer it there in addition to somewhere else and then also receive that benefit if the customer cares to use the service themselves
And the exclusivity deal almost certainly comes with a cash incentive that will help keep the developer afloat. Plus, they want to funnel as many sales as possible to the place with the 88/12 split and not toward the place with the 70/30 split.
 

Spongehead56

Member
Jul 6, 2018
102
Wisconsin
I'm fine with this. I can still play it on my PC, like I planned to, and I have both launchers, so that's cool. Hopefully this results in some positive financial benefits for Mobius Digital and Annapurna Interactive.
 

AshenOne

Member
Feb 21, 2018
631
Just outright disgusting really. Won't support and be hopeful for any dev. that goes in bed with epic for any reason. Maybe the dev. in question isn't that guilty of being greedy and prioritizing profit a lot more than respecting its customer but the Epic entity itself is the definition of scum these days. Epic is hugely jeopardizing PC's openness with its shit and these deals are certainly not helping in pushing that shit back. PC is different because its audience wants it to be different from the console market space. In no condition should it be allowed to become like the console market space. Its stinks with all its pay to pay, exclusivity BS thats why i haven't bought a console up till now.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
5,547
My favorite thing about this situation is that Epic was one of the main propagators of "PC gaming is dying." It's why they took their ball and went to play in the console and iOS space. They spent 10 years salting the earth around an audience they said wasn't worth it until Fortnite blew up. Now they're trying to brute force their way into a market they said wasn't supposed to be around anymore, against the entity that helped stabilize it in the first place.

Anyone defending Epic's practices or how they've handled anything regarding the EGS is either naive or a troll. There's no goodwill here.
Way to put everyone into a box for saying anything you disagree with. Are you being completely honest with your own comments btw? Did Epic say it was dying? Did they "salt the earth"? Or did they in fact say around 2010 that they still love PC but high piracy at the time drove them to consoles?
 

Nome

Designer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,199
NYC
You know that Epic is pro-actively blocking all IPs from China, right? It's not like China told them to stay away.
Because Tencent has a large stake in the company and needs to be in the government's good graces.
For a company that loves revenue, it'd be dumb for them to turn down China for any other reason.
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,284
USA USA USA
My favorite thing about this situation is that Epic was one of the main propagators of "PC gaming is dying." It's why they took their ball and went to play in the console and iOS space. They spent 10 years salting the earth around an audience they said wasn't worth it until Fortnite blew up. Now they're trying to brute force their way into a market they said wasn't supposed to be around anymore, against the entity that helped stabilize it in the first place.

Anyone defending Epic's practices or how they've handled anything regarding the EGS is either naive or a troll. There's no goodwill here.
and while that was all happening microsoft tried twice to make some dumb walled garden garbage that was heartily dismissed, making everyone even more skeptical of random big companies trying to get into the PC market

once even having the gall to charge us for online

it's almost like pc customers have learned to fight for what they want and that it ends up working out for them
 

SteveWinwood

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,284
USA USA USA
Way to put everyone into a box for saying anything you disagree with. Are you being completely honest with your own comments btw? Did Epic say it was dying? Did they "salt the earth"? Or did they in fact say around 2010 that they still love PC but high piracy at the time drove them to consoles?
i too abandon things i supposedly love and not work to make them better
 

merf

Member
Oct 27, 2017
384
I feel like we're seeing this post-GG swing where, not only are people not entitled to developers' time or ideas, which they aren't, but now they also are not entitled to things that they paid for. Yes, it is obviously not legally binding but it is implicit. Backers assumed they were getting Steam keys because they had no reason to assume they weren't getting Steam keys because Mobius basically said, "You're getting Steam keys," even if they didn't say, "WE'RE DISTRIBUTING DIGITAL COPIES THROUGH STEAM."

If that's beyond your comprehension you either haven't closely followed the campaign (you know, like myself and other longtime fans that supported the game and assumed we would receive Steam keys at launch), you're a fucking idiot or you're just being an obtuse douche.
 

abracadaver

Member
Nov 30, 2017
1,461
Would love to see Valve banning some devs from Steam for doing shit like this. I want to see how they earn money on PC without Steam once Epic stops paying for exclusivity
 

EloKa

GSP
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
475
Because Tencent has a large stake in the company and needs to be in the government's good graces.
For a company that loves revenue, it'd be dumb for them to turn down China for any other reason.
Do you suggest that Tim Sweeney is a liar when he says that Tencent has absolutely no say in the operative strategies of Epic?

Why would they purposely not want to sell content in China?
We don't know but there are several possible reasons.
 

Khamsinvera

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,156
I was going to forsake Bethesda's games for OutWorld.

Then Bethesda came back to Steam and OutWorld moved to Epic.

So now, Bethesda's gonna get my money and OutWorld can s*** my d***
 

Solaris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,317
It's strange that so many people are defending this. Has any of Epic's moneyhatting actually benefited consumers yet? All it seems to have done so far is increase hostility in the PC gaming community.
They fall into either:

a) Don't play games on PC, don't care and/or are grossly mis-informed about why people are bothered as they just repeat shit like 'iT's JuSt aNoThEr lAuNcHeR'
or
b) Have some kind of grudge against Valve and will routinely say things like 'Valve isn't doing anything to improve Steam'
or
c) epic troll xD
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
1,092
Exclusivity deals aren't necessarily terrible in my view but it becomes a problem when the party that holds the exclusivity isn't interested in offering a good service. Epic's client is currently nothing more than a mere launcher, without features such as an overlay, trophies, cloud saves, community etc. but that's far from the biggest issue in my opinion; the biggest issue is their whole strategy and unwillingness to implement features they know people want, such as forums, reviews and refunds. I'm aware they backtracked on refunds because they got a lot of flak for it, but I think their stance is still relevant since it's quite telling how they're completely oblivious as to how a good service is provided.

They also mentioned they're not going to implement any form of trading card system. It's a minor thing and I don't care for trading cards myself but I just find that statement odd and makes me wonder why that is important to point out, or what even the harm would be by implementing it. Their whole approach of going "no, we're not going to be Steam or compete with Steam" and refusal to do anything that Steam is doing is not something I think of as a benefit in any capacity. It seems more like a silly temper tantrum than anything else, especially after Sweeney's comment "we'll stop doing this if Valve concedes"... I mean, what.

I have a lot of issues with Valve and their hands-off approach but Epic's strategy is simply not viable from where I stand.
 
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rpm

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,543
the 24th century
Way to put everyone into a box for saying anything you disagree with. Are you being completely honest with your own comments btw? Did Epic say it was dying? Did they "salt the earth"? Or did they in fact say around 2010 that they still love PC but high piracy at the time drove them to consoles?
"The thing that is killing me the most is; the PC industry for games is just dying." - Mike Capps, then President of Epic Games, 2007

“I think people would rather make a game that sells 4.5 million copies than a million and “Gears” is at 4.5 million right now on the 360. I think the PC is just in disarray… what’s driving the PC right now is ‘Sims’-type games and ‘WoW‘ and a lot of stuff that’s in a web-based interface. You just click on it and play it. That’s the direction PC is evolving into. So for me, the PC is kind of the secondary part of what we’re doing. It’s important for us, but right now making AAA games on consoles is where we’re at.” - CliffyB, 2008

"There will always be a market for casual games and online games like World of Warcraft. But at the end of the day, consoles have definitely left PC games behind." - Tim Sweeney, 2008

Did you only look up one quote?
 

Yas

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
384
Arctic Circle, Finland
Because Tencent has a large stake in the company and needs to be in the government's good graces.
For a company that loves revenue, it'd be dumb for them to turn down China for any other reason.
I don't think you know what you're talking about. Please do enlighten me how Tencent's 关系 is relevant here?
Tencent has good enough relations with the Party that they probably would get away with EGS coming to mainland.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
Epic makes people of color pay more than they would have on Steam.
I’m not a fan of the EGS by any means (it’s a shit service that is lacking in several decade old basic features for game buyers) but they have regional pricing in parts of Africa and the Caribbean while Steam does not have any. End result is much cheaper prices.

So that’s a load of horseshit.
 

sredgrin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,187
I don't think you know what you're talking about. Please do enlighten me how Tencent's 关系 is relevant here? Oh right, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

Tencent has good enough relations with the Party that they probably would get away with EGS coming to mainland.

Didn't Tencent's Wegame just like 6 months ago get majorly fucked over by the government when it cratered things like Monster Hunter World?
 

khamakazee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,907
User Banned (1 week) - History of Bad Faith arguments and trolling
They fall into either:

a) Don't play games on PC, don't care and/or are grossly mis-informed about why people are bothered as they just repeat shit like 'iT's JuSt aNoThEr lAuNcHeR'
or
b) Have some kind of grudge against Valve and will routinely say things like 'Valve isn't doing anything to improve Steam'
or
c) epic troll xD
Bullshit.

I have 146 games on Steam, I have nothing against them other than think it is ridiculouss they stopped making traditional games. Maybe, just maybe, some of the things people have against Epic don't affect me as much as they do to them.

Any other ridiculous labels you want to place on others who don't share your opinion?

"The thing that is killing me the most is; the PC industry for games is just dying." - Mike Capps, then President of Epic Games, 2007

“I think people would rather make a game that sells 4.5 million copies than a million and “Gears” is at 4.5 million right now on the 360. I think the PC is just in disarray… what’s driving the PC right now is ‘Sims’-type games and ‘WoW‘ and a lot of stuff that’s in a web-based interface. You just click on it and play it. That’s the direction PC is evolving into. So for me, the PC is kind of the secondary part of what we’re doing. It’s important for us, but right now making AAA games on consoles is where we’re at.” - CliffyB, 2008

"There will always be a market for casual games and online games like World of Warcraft. But at the end of the day, consoles have definitely left PC games behind." - Tim Sweeney, 2008

Did you only look up one quote?
lol, quoting things from 12 years ago.

Here's another,

Digital Equipment Corp. founder Ken Olsen's in 1977, "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home."

Bill Gates in 1981 "No one will need more than 637KB of memory for a personal computer. 640KB ought to be enough for anybody,"
 
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Nome

Designer
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
2,199
NYC
I don't think you know what you're talking about. Please do enlighten me how Tencent's 关系 is relevant here? Oh right, you probably have no idea what I'm talking about.

Tencent has good enough relations with the Party that they probably would get away with EGS coming to mainland.
I've worked at several Tencent-owned or affiliated companies, and have insight into several others.
Their relationship with the government is strained at the moment due to gaming being perceived as a social threat (and Tencent's growth being a major contributor), hence the licensing freezes.

What's your source for Tencent having a good relationship with the government?
Because you sound like you're talking out of your ass.
 

YuSuzzune

Member
Nov 21, 2018
1,131
Didn't epic tell they won't do such a thing anymore? Why they keep doing it? Fucking backers is simply a scummy thing, because those people funded your game which otherwise wouldn't exist at all.
There should be some kind of regulation in act by Kickstarter, Fig and similar platforms in which you are forced to provide your backers what they paid for, otherwise you are out of that platform meaning you won't be able to kickstart your projects anymore simply because you are not a reliable, trusty development company.
 

Yas

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
384
Arctic Circle, Finland
I've worked at several Tencent-owned or affiliated companies, and have insight into several others.
Their relationship with the government is strained at the moment due to gaming being perceived as a social threat, hence the licensing freezes.

What's your source for Tencent having a good relationship with the government?
Because you sound like you're talking out of your ass.
Funny, I've also worked with several Tencent's companies. They've told me completely different story, off the record of course.
But glad to see you're talking out of your ass!
 
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rpm

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,543
the 24th century
lol, quoting things from 12 years ago.

Here's another,

Digital Equipment Corp. founder Ken Olsen's in 1977, "There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home."

Bill Gates in 1981 "No one will need more than 637KB of memory for a personal computer. 640KB ought to be enough for anybody,"
We're talking about the 2007ish-2012ish time frame where Epic was actively shitting on PCs
Why do you think the person I was replying to was talking about a 2010 quote?
Why even jump in on a convo if you don't even read it
It's a three post long conversation, not War and Peace, ffs
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
5,547
I looked into the background of this game. When it was announced in mid 2015 it was supposed to be a Q2 2016 release. I can't find when they said they planned to release on Steam. That's stated in the OP here, with no source.

tldr - If any gamer should be upset with any company here, it's either Annapurna for making the deal with Epic, or Mobius for taking years longer than they estimated to finish the game.

The game wasn't just crowd-funded, it was crowd-invested. The developer Mobius Digital was using the new crowd funding platform Fig for this.

"In their first-of-its-kind campaign, Mobius was asking for $125,000 total with up to $50,000 of that open for investors."

"Looking through [our potential investor's backgrounds," Bailey said, "the majority are people who had a background in games and are people you would actually want to be your investors. They were like people in key places in the game industry."

Fig explained it as follows: On a $50,000 investment, the investors will receive 15 percent of gross receipts from the game until they get their principal back, and then 10 percent until they achieve a 25 percent return — a total of $62,500. Then investors receive five percent thereafter in perpetuity. Terms will change from campaign to campaign.
https://www.polygon.com/2015/10/13/9522551/fig-first-equity-crowdfunding-campaign-outer-wilds-sec

The developer therefore has a responsibility to not just deliver the game to consumers, but also to return a profit for the crowd funders. Consequently, they partnered with Annapurna and MS. In 2018, Annapurna bought out the rights from Fig. This returned 220% of early investors original investment, which is a good thing. Epic then presumably offered some money to Annapurna to bring it to EGS, i.e. Mobius probably didn't have a say in it.

https://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2018-03-16-fig-turns-a-profit-for-some-investors
 

SirBaron

Member
Oct 27, 2017
451
I don't really care about consumer this, exclusive buy that. I'm just not buying it on epic store because the store is shit.
 

Delusibeta

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,243
This is one part I never really understood. Why is EGS not allowed in China?
Officially, it's illegal to sell games in China that's hasn't been approved by the government. This isn't unusual: most countries have similar regulations when it comes to media, including videogames. What is unusual is a) the sheer size of the Chinese market, and b) said government being highly active in blocking and regulating games, except they have something of a big blind spot in PC digital distributors not based within China itself (e.g. Steam, Uplay, GOG etc).
 

fantomena

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
9,637
Norway.
Bullshit.

I have 146 games on Steam, I have nothing against them other than think it is ridiculouss thhey stopped making traditional games. maybe just maybe some of the things people have against Epic don't affect me as much as they do to them.

Any other ridiculous labels you want to place on others who don't share your opinion?
I have 3549 games on Steam, 262 on GOG, 87 on Origin, 41 on UPlay and I think every game that is buyable on Battle.net (there's very few of them), a bunch on Oculus Client and some on Win 10 Store.

So no, the Epic Store is not "just another launcher" for me.

I have no problems with buying games on Steam, GOG, Origin, UPlay, Battle.net, Oculus and the Win 10 Store, but until further, Im not buying anything from the Epic Store.
 
Oct 27, 2017
881
Way to put everyone into a box for saying anything you disagree with. Are you being completely honest with your own comments btw? Did Epic say it was dying? Did they "salt the earth"? Or did they in fact say around 2010 that they still love PC but high piracy at the time drove them to consoles?
I don't see much to disagree with in my post.

"PC gamers are filthy pirates" was a go-to excuse for developers riding the "PC gaming is dying" narrative that wanted to explain away their dwindling or embarrassing activities. Even Sega had a go with it when they gimped the PC release of Sonic & Sega All Stars Racing by cutting out online play.

“Truth is we did look at online support, be it GFW or some other method,” Lycett said. “When we looked into the cost vs the projected sales, the two didn’t add up. So as a result the feature wasn’t added to the game. One of the main reasons is that on PC people will steal it rather than buy it.
Even the fucking DS version had online play! There's a reason Transformed did so much better on Steam. Not surprisingly, Sega is all in on PC gaming now, just like Epic, after spending years shitting on the consumer base.

It's peculiar that this mass-piracy issue just upped and vanished~
 

Deleted member 1759

User requested account closure
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khamakazee

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,907
I have 3549 games on Steam, 262 on GOG, 87 on Origin, 41 on UPlay and I think every game that is buyable on Battle.net (there's very few of them), a bunch on Oculus Client and some on Win 10 Store.

So no, the Epic Store is not "just another launcher".

I have no problems with buying games on Steam, GOG, Origin, UPlay, Battle.net, Oculus and the Win 10 Store, but until further, Im not buying anything from the Epic Store.
That's great but your post did nothing at all to counter what i said.
 

Hate

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,671
User Warned: Misrepresenting arguments of members
I fully expect people here to go ahead and say the same shit to Igarashi and his team for abandoning the Vita version of Bloodstained or is this just selective outrage?
 

Solaris

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,317
Bullshit.

I have 146 games on Steam, I have nothing against them other than think it is ridiculouss they stopped making traditional games. Maybe, just maybe, some of the things people have against Epic don't affect me as much as they do to them.

Any other ridiculous labels you want to place on others who don't share your opinion?
Yeah.

Anyone that defends the EGS in its current state and the practices they employ is an idiot.

Great, you aren't affected or bothered by Epic money-hatting exclusives in an attempt to directly reduce competition and gain a monopoly. It's also a platform that lacks any kind of decent feature set and has a history of security concerns

In short: No one gives a shit that you aren't 'affected' by blatant anti-consumer practices.