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People keep saying they want heroes faster but then we get sigma. With the hope of 222 blizzard decides to pair the release with another game breaking hero. And everyone saw it coming except for blizzard.
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Overwatch League Offseason |OT| Support Tier Two Overwatch!
- Thread starter Solidsnakejej
- Start date
All the more reason why I liked Moira's inclusion to the game, as she was a balanced hero that didn't throw things out of whack.
He's probably been around since before they decided on 2/2/2 so his counters would rely on other types of compositions ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ the whole game is unbalaced now though, sigma is just a consequence... though i do think that if symmetra had that goddamn barrier instead of the shitty one we got in 2.0 she'd be pretty damn broken
That thing needs a cooldown
All of her abilities are boring as hell, quite literally 0 skill, have almost 0 counterplay, is boring as FUCK to play, and is infuriating to play against because of all her auto lock bullshit and fade bullshit.
She's like if you took Ana but removed basically everything that made her cool. At least Sigma has a unique kit.
Nope, nope, nope, nope, and nope.
It's really sad to read opinions from people who don't play the characters they talk about. I just hope blizzard don't take stupid opinions like this one seriously.
Moira is workable, but she's just too good right now. Zen needs a buff and hopefully the Lucio changes bring Rein back into certain maps. Sigma is the obvious target right now though: high damage, pseudo-defense matrix, shield, small hotbox for a tank, with the only weaknesses being a lack of mobility and a so-so ult which aren't that bad when you consider he has a full team with him and no problem attacking high ground.
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That's probably true. Less double shield would likely mean more Ana but I think Moira will still see the most usage as long as burst healing and brawly comps are so strong. But I think healing needs a nerf across the board. DPS is in a sorry state with the level of health pools and burst healing they have to deal with.
Moira is fine, not every healer has to be Ana levels of skill/aim and this is one of two metas where she was any good at all.
The problem heros Orisa and Sigma by FAR, Orisa is so much worse and less engaging to play than Moira, abd unlike Moira the entire game revolves around her sitting behind shield to an absurd degree.
The problem heros Orisa and Sigma by FAR, Orisa is so much worse and less engaging to play than Moira, abd unlike Moira the entire game revolves around her sitting behind shield to an absurd degree.
You got points beyond nuh uh or what? I'll agree with just about everything Optimus said. What aspects of Moira's kit involves any form of mechanical skill or engaging play? Her attack is an autolock, her left click is an AOE with minimal resource management. Her E's bouncing is just about the only thing that has variance in her kit but I'll get on that later. Her shift lets Moira escape bad positioning and danger. Her beam requires you to have some amount of aim but it''s also an AOE and has a forgiving radius anyways. Moira isn't engaging to play at all compared to any hero in the game.
And this is where the crux of Moira's problem is. There is nothing mechanically demanding about her. Other heroes that are considered low skill have tons more complexity to them. Mercy has her Guardian Angel techs plus the dependency on teammates to have an escape at all. Junkrat's primary fire while spammy has an entirely unique aim compared to any other hero in the game. Symmetra's right click requires good predictive aim and using her ultimate is the ultimate test of gamesense in OW IMO. Even heroes that I despise playing for having lower skill ceilings like Reaper have something. Moira? Literally nothing. You can quite literally never practice her and perform well on her by relying on your accumulated game sense from playing OW on other heroes and even roles.
She's a complete bore to play and I always feel like I could be playing any other hero in the game and improving in some way, whereas I feel nothing when I play her
And that's just my complaints about her coming from the player engagement side of things, don't get me started on how risk free she is in lower ranks where people outright play her like a DPS
Orisa's niche seems to be risk-free pushing and having very few counters due to most counters being CC-based and Fortify stopping everything short of a full team collapsing on top of her. Meanwhile every single push Rein, Winston, and to a lesser extent Hammond make is risky and requires burst healing and DPS support to pull off safely. Widow/Hanzo are the most notable counters but good luck playing Widow into double shield, and Hanzo will be full-time hustling to get value and can't always be on Orisa.
You could literally say the same thing about Mercy about most of everything you just said.
Say what you will about Sigma but he finally took D.va out of the meta
Unrelated, but this joke tweet got me so bad today lol
Unrelated, but this joke tweet got me so bad today lol
No you can't, I literally said otherwise in the post lmao
Mercy:
A) Has a much higher mechanical ceiling with Guardian Angel techs plus her pistol
B) Doesn't have a get out of jail free card at all times
C) Doesn't crisscross into a DPS role at lower ranks poisoning game quality for everyone involved that has to play with 1 less healer
D) Swapping between heal and damage boost on the right target at the right time actually requires using your brain versus Moira's plain af resource management
And I say this as someone who dislikes playing Mercy a lot
A. No. You should rarely should be whipping out pistol and even then arguing that it takes more skill to do an incredibly niche move that gets you less value than healing or damage boosting.
B. She has a flying ability with no cool down. I don't see how thats not as good as Moira's shift which does act on a cooldonw.
C. Player error does not equate to character problems.
D. Don't agree at all about this because spamming too much healing means you run out of heals whereas Mercy has no punishment to her kit for switching between the two.
I couldn't disagree more with your assessment.
A. Do you not know what Mercy's Guardian Angel techs are? Because nice sidestep. As to the pistol, there are absolutely times to whip out the pistol in some situations and unlike Moira...that requires you to aim. Like finishing up a 1v1 to go into a res that your DPS lost the duel on
B. Mercy's Guardian Angel is dependent on having a teammate around with clear LOS to them, and if you're actually a decent Mercy, using the right techs at the right time to reposition yourself and evade fire. That's the beauty of it. Basic af ability with actual depth that you can see being utilized differently as you go up the ranks. Moira's fade is literally free. No conditions beyond a cooldown, and a low one at that.
I honestly can't believe that you're downplaying Guardian Angel in the competitive OW OT after Season 1's moth meta
C. The original point this started on was hero design. This is a knock against Moira from a hero design perspective. Where all other heroes scale with player ability, Moira falls flat. Stop dodging
D. Moira's resource management is stupid easy. Have you seen the current meta? Moira doesn't run out of juice in a burst meta. If you're regularly running out of juice in double shield it's because your tanks failed in rotating their abilities properly and you're stalling out a lost fight. Mercy's only brainless in a Pharah pocket matchup at low ranks. At higher ranks or pro, everything I said about Guardian Angel applies and you have to manage more than one thing at a time...unlike Moira
You really got me there with those nopes
Explain to me how this hero with a lock on weapon that self heals, a heal that requires spraying in general direction, a lock on orb, the best escape ability of any supports that is not only instant but doesn't tell you where she's going, and an ult that literally cannot be blocked by anything except geometry, requires skill.
And since you're quick to make assumptions - Moira is my most played support this season. She's boring as fuck to play and I don't think there is anything in this game more infuriating than that fucking damage orb.
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Moira is literally the most one dimensional hero in the game. No clutch factor, no aim required, boring ass ultimate, low-key broken almost RNG damage abilities like that fucking orb, easy get out of jail free card that THANK GOD blizzard didn't buff.
People that are like "Bro I can't play Moira" are literally just saying "Fuck this boring ass hero I wanna have fun. SPEED BOOOST"
One day Blizzard will nerf damage values across the board for non dps players and categorize main and off tank as two different roles. Until then, let's all enjoy this braindead being being meta.
People that are like "Bro I can't play Moira" are literally just saying "Fuck this boring ass hero I wanna have fun. SPEED BOOOST"
One day Blizzard will nerf damage values across the board for non dps players and categorize main and off tank as two different roles. Until then, let's all enjoy this braindead being being meta.
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I'd like to play Ana as much as the next person, but it's suicidal to play her with how the game is at this present time.
As a high master support main, Moira was very good before double shield in certain situations, such as holding full of chokes points like King's Row / El Dorado A and whatnot. If anything I'm glad that Zen isn't mandatory any longer because he kinda was for two years.
However saying that Moira doesn't need any skill is flatout false, with her atrocious dps your awareness has to be on point and maximizing her healing output as much as possible isn't as braindead as nading your mates. That mechanical "requirement" determining what is and what isn't skilled is so ridiculous its amazing
Besides, the best escape ability of any healer is baptiste's exo boots since ya know, it doesnt have any cd
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Nah fade is easily better than exo boots. Fade gets you out of pretty much every ult in the game. Exo boots doesn't even get you out of LOS most of the time unless you're aware of your positioning (skill required). With fade you can make a massive positioning mistake and not get punished for it.
Managing her healing is really not difficult at all. Calling Ana nade braindead is a real hot take I don't even want to get into right now, but you're ignoring Moira's orbs being essentially the same with a much better cooldown and without the risk of missing or it getting blocked by anything
I don't know what you're trying to prove or tell me with fade usage, its not some magical button, at high level people communicate every single CD used by the team in front. The moment you hit fade when you were not really supposed to, you're dead, its that easy. Best believe doomfist will be there
Also yeah ana's nade doesn't require any special skill at all when it comes down to nading your teamates
Look I get it, I mained Ana from the moment she got released, then transitioned to Zen / Moira, and now I play Moira - Baptiste pretty much all the time and got quite a ridiculous k/d - heal per 10 on the later. Mechanical prowess on a healer doesn't matter at all when it comes to make judgment calls, you're just being haughty for zero good reasons. "lol just click to heal lolol so unskilled", if its not Moira its mercy. What about Lucio btw since you dont even need to press a button for that, or Zen which is actually a lock on heal mechanic ?
That argument is ridiculous, as a support you're the one person who has to play perfectly with the team to get ults faster than anyone else. That's where the true skill of the role resides in, not how mechanically intensive it is to play one.
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Moira is not difficult to play. At a high level you don't think using Ana nade or sleep gets punished twice as hard as fade?
If Doomfist gets on your arse as Moira, you get peel from your team or you fade and you're blessed. If Doomfist gets on you as Ana, you have to land sleep or get peel from your team. Which of those is easier? If Doomfist gets on you and you're Baptiste, idgaf if you have exo boots he just knocked you into the air.
Mechanical prowess on a support does matter unless they're Moira or Mercy. They have a lower skill-ceiling and you should stop pretending otherwise:
Nah you can get an ult and have to aim at the same time
You're beyond bad if you can't avoid a doomfist coming at you on baptiste, its that simple. You got all the tools to bait his slam and then get your team peeling for you straight up. DF use the same pattern over and over and over, Exo will save you every single time. Even better if they completely miss slam.
Doomfist engaging on Ana is also some of the most predictable stuff out there, there's no reason whatsoever for a good, high level Ana to not know the rollout spots and position accordingly. Only scenario you'd get killed is you wasting dart, that's it. Lets not pretend it takes an amazing level of skill to land a dart on DF please. The only justification to that is the time it takes for dart to actually be shot, because even roadhog's hook animation is faster
None of the supports are hard to play, that was my whole point. And the role is flexible enough for any player to avoid playing the most aim intensive ones yet still be valuable to your team, kind reminder that even a lucio player such as Runner made it to Apex finals. People being somehow haughty or whatever when it comes down to the no skill aspect of it are just jealous jackasses, its that simple.
I could find you a bunch of heroes in every role that aren't demanding to play, yet are very high impact in their own meta if played well. And for the sake of the argument which you doesn't seem to understand, it absolutely doesn't matter, unless your ego is the most important thing to consider in a competitive team based game.
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Okay last time before I give up with you. Skill ceiling != skill. Skill ceiling != skill floor
Lucio has a high skill floor and a high skill ceiling. Moira has a high skill floor and a low skill ceiling.
Landing a sleep is harder than using fade. Jumping as Baptiste before a Doomfist jumps on you is easier than using fade. Do you get what I'm trying to say?
Plus if you can see the Doomfist coming predictably that says a lot more about him as a player than it does you.
This is such a smarmy non-point. You make these low skill ceiling heroes meta and the game gets boring and isn't as rewarding. You can have Ana be meta and still be playing in a team game.
https://youtu.be/AQ4BAG520LY - outdated but still relevant
Outdated and irrelevant, have a great day. Goats was the most intensive meta the game has ever known yet it also showed all the flaws of the game in full force. OW just isn't a game where you can consistently clutch by having better mechanical skills at identical levels since they killed dive / double sniper
That you find it less rewarding is absolutely not mutually exclusive in any way
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No we don't lol. Also, exo boots sends you almost straight upwards which can set you up for disaster and the DF counterplay mostly relies on using drone IF you survive rocket, since you know, actual good fist players won't give you time to cast your boots
The game literally is decided by whose DF is the better player right now.
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Its not to the extent of supports, not being disrespectful or anything but you wanna be able to get your ult much pretty much first at every major fight. We're the ones saving people
That's vastly over simplifying, he just gets to "shine" more since Reaper has a much harder time than DF in this meta to kill things quickly. Plus you know, you still gotta do meteor strike + halt and thats not just on him either
That's a fair point but to be honest DF vs Baptiste is very easy if you don't have tunnel vision. If he misses his slam you can kill him straight
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