He needs something, but the Doomfist pre-nerf was too good. On the PTR he was a team killer too. No one hero should be able to solo a team.
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Overwatch |OT| Mercy May I?
- Thread starter EssBeeVee
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He needs something, but the Doomfist pre-nerf was too good. On the PTR he was a team killer too. No one hero should be able to solo a team.
Fine, maybe I overreacted, I just don't see Moira getting through this first month unscathed.
Really they just need to fix the punch, hitbox like the old but without the whole punching through obstacles thing, and have the wall impact stuff have more consistency.
No way, it's not just about going through obstacles, this was definitely NOT ok:
I will always maintain the horizontal axis of DF's old punch was fine. The vertical was too much, yes, but just look at the size of his model and the punch effect. It's huge. It should have a big hitbox.
Got blamed for the loss of a match by switching off of Lucio to Reaper to counter the double tanks that kept killing me because fuck protecting your healers. Said blaming was done by our Soldier who couldn't pressure the goddamn Pharmercy they also had worth shit, as well as contributed to the trickling I took time out of the match to explain in detail in the chat.
Just delete the fucking DPS class already. Too many talentless, arrogant bastards.
Just delete the fucking DPS class already. Too many talentless, arrogant bastards.
Honestly I was just being lazy and not being bothered to type "also keeping the fixed vertical axis".
With Bones regarding the horizontal point though, it's a giant gauntlet lunge of death after all.
I think horizontal was too wide but I would like to see a comparison to it's current state to see how much it was nerfed and if by increasing the hitbox a little they could hit the sweet spot.
Being able to aim the punch vertically is the dream but that would make the character broken.
I would like to see them mess with the other abilities too, maybe slighty reduce the cooldowns for seismic slam/uppercut and doing something about his primary fire. But I can't say I feel that confident talking about this characters since I don't really play with him that much.
Doomfist felt extremely awkward, even before the hitbox changes
a good doomfist was extremely annoying since he would just murder your squishies and healers with the dreaded one shot and a bad doomfist would just flop around all match with seismic slam, really annoying for both teams
I really dont get what are the devs expectations of the character, his kit just doesn't feel like it should belong in this game
a good doomfist was extremely annoying since he would just murder your squishies and healers with the dreaded one shot and a bad doomfist would just flop around all match with seismic slam, really annoying for both teams
I really dont get what are the devs expectations of the character, his kit just doesn't feel like it should belong in this game
First time playing in months and discovering they added 8 player FFA to Arcade. Dear god that's such a cluster but yet I just couldn't stop playing it. Wasn't expecting it but ended up being a good way to draw me back in.
Here is a video that shows Doomfist's rocket punch hitbox being smaller than that of Mercy's pistol projectiles:
I also don't necessarily agree that letting rocket punch being aimed vertically would be overpowered, as it would make it less likely that your target would hit the wall. Think pythagorean theorem - the diagonal angle would have to be the longest one.
However, after Doomfist's initial nerf I started to toy with the idea of reworking him. A lot of the outcry was that he had a 1SKO ability on a 4-second cooldown, not just that it was super easy to land. His other two abilities, seismic slam and rising uppercut, are for mobility and a little bit of disruption. My idea involved changing Doomfist from effectively a close-range sniper to a disrupting juggler.
- 4-5 second cooldown for both slam and uppercut
- 7-12 second cooldown for rocket punch
- Give slam and uppercut 0.25-0.5 second stun, and triple the size of the hitbox for both
Now Doomfist flies in and batters the enemy around, completely shattering entrenchments and causing chaos, while not necessarily killing the entire team by himself.
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I don't think a one shot on a 4 second CD with that much mobility should also have a huge hitbox
If he misses it, he's probably dead. As it currently stands, rocket punch carries a titanic risk with middling payoff.
If he misses he can use his other abilities to escape.
An ability with the perks I mentioned earlier should have a high risk.
Ok, so then DF spends the whole match punching, missing, then jumping and flying away, waiting for his cooldowns so he can repeat this process and maybe land a handful of lucky shots.
This is what playing him is like now. That's why nobody plays him. The nerf killed the character and it's very sad to see.
And what is the real perk of the mobility of rocket punch? So he can get himself into prime position to be exploded by the other team? Hardly a perk. Is it to run away? If so, then the hitbox doesn't matter. Is it so that he can get himself in position to use his other abilities? His BB-gun and other abilities are hardly impressive, and better used to get away in the first place. Rocket punch's only two perks are the cooldown and the potential damage, and one of those is nullified by having a useless hitbox.
Keep putting me in games that are almost over blizz. Oh, and continue putting me IN games and then back to the menu, that's fun too.
Regarding Doomfist, it really just takes a look at his stats to confirm he's trash. His winrate is barely a couple points above Ana's across pretty much all platforms and ranks. He's bad and needs a rework to be viable.
Whether people want the kind of burst damage he offers to be in the game at all is a separate question.
Whether people want the kind of burst damage he offers to be in the game at all is a separate question.
OP
OP
she still has the lowest dps ingame. think of the initial burst of the damage orb as winston when hes landing on someone + doing a punch before using his tesla. Dps wise Ana is way more dangerous, and so is Zen. Ive seen a lot of people trying to play cat and mouse versus Moira inside corridors ... that of course doesn't really work
Other than that I kinda like that Moira actually is a pretty accessible support for people willing to give a shot. Maybe they ll nerf the ult charge but its a bit like Ana, she's getting it really fast only with deathball comps
if they just added a big shield-like shader on the punch hitbox the larger one would be fine -- it's all about expectations
you should really watch some videos of Chipsa playing Doomfist if you think the mobility is worthless
So once again Blizzard fucked things up by over nerfing things.
I vaguely remember seeing that comparison with mercy pistol, it's as ridiculous as the previous hitbox but now in the opposite way.
I can't understand why Blizz doesn't aim for the middle ground, always goes from one extreme to the other. Perhaps that's the best way to tune things, but if they take so long to adjust it's kinda pointless imo, this way the only thing they are doing is just killing a character for months.
Jeff said that before thinking about buffing Doomfist they were working on getting the hit detection right, maybe having a smaller hitbox makes it easier for them to tune that? I can't think of other possibility for such a severe nerf.
Anyway, maybe a rework is on the way like you said. Don't know about those cooldowns since the punch is by far my favorite ability to use even if just as a mobility tool but I can see your point, it will depend on what they want the character to be.
Doomfist really isn't fun to play against. Like Widow, one shots with little or no recourse just aren't compelling gameplay in my opinion.
I agree he needs buffs, but I'd definitely like them to be more in the vein of mobility options and disruption. The fist should be a high risk high reward. Giving it a shorter cooldown would be a mistake.
I agree he needs buffs, but I'd definitely like them to be more in the vein of mobility options and disruption. The fist should be a high risk high reward. Giving it a shorter cooldown would be a mistake.
Oh damn bones, that hitbox video just gave me nightmare flashbacks and triggered me at the same time.
I've certainly had my share of recorded "totally punched this guy" clips, but that Mercy pistol comparison man, I can't deal.
You're always in a bit of a tricky spot with handling hitboxes, I have after all often griped about Genji's deflect, but that's mainly due to its visual inconsistency (I'd actually make it so you can somehow see the width of its range with some kind of small aura effect. in any case you don't want the player to be crying bullshit all the time but you don't want them to be overly strict.
Really if they hit the middle ground between the previous and current punches I think Doom will be fine, lowering his other cooldowns to me seems like it would lean towards being too good for him when you consider their small stun and shield aspects as well as upping his mobility perhaps a bit too much.
Of course deep down I'd love uppercut on a smaller cooldown so I could use it to get around more but sometimes these things are right to be reigned in.
I've certainly had my share of recorded "totally punched this guy" clips, but that Mercy pistol comparison man, I can't deal.
You're always in a bit of a tricky spot with handling hitboxes, I have after all often griped about Genji's deflect, but that's mainly due to its visual inconsistency (I'd actually make it so you can somehow see the width of its range with some kind of small aura effect. in any case you don't want the player to be crying bullshit all the time but you don't want them to be overly strict.
Really if they hit the middle ground between the previous and current punches I think Doom will be fine, lowering his other cooldowns to me seems like it would lean towards being too good for him when you consider their small stun and shield aspects as well as upping his mobility perhaps a bit too much.
Of course deep down I'd love uppercut on a smaller cooldown so I could use it to get around more but sometimes these things are right to be reigned in.
This is exactly what happened to me. It popped after a quite frankly shite coalescence.
Poor Doomfist. If this was Doomfist's future, I'm glad Terry Crews didn't voice him. The character went from "Hype af" to "Is that a Doomfist? They're throwing."
It's hilarious watching a Doomfist whiff his abilities and then try to manage with his goofy shotgun. I wish he was better.
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I love Moira, but I can see her ult charge taking a hit in the future. Use two or three death orbs and you're basically at 100% charge. I just hope that the people that use her in comp remember that healing is just as important as melting the other team.
It's hilarious watching a Doomfist whiff his abilities and then try to manage with his goofy shotgun. I wish he was better.
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I love Moira, but I can see her ult charge taking a hit in the future. Use two or three death orbs and you're basically at 100% charge. I just hope that the people that use her in comp remember that healing is just as important as melting the other team.
Quick question I'm playing for the first time and want to know if I can turn off the movie it plays on boot up and just go straight to the main screen?
I could also watch videos of Chro from before Junkrat's buff but that didn't stop JR from being a trash pick
In fact, that's not even a great comparison because Junk was at least good for spam damage and area control. DF right now is just playing with a handicap. Good players are succeeding with him because they're good, not because they're playing Doomfist.
So how much does QP/Arcade factor in on your placements SR? Does it even do that or is it just a rumor?
I ranked like almost 200 sr lower than last season while my gf ranked almost 100sr higher than me despite me having 10 times more hours played (and wins).
Is it connected to what role you decide to play often? I've mained Tracer/Soldier with Pharah, D.va, Zarya and most recently Widow thrown into the mix (although i flex almost always). My SO mainly just runs D.va, but are beginning to branch out to trashmouse and other stuffs.
At our low sr tanks are rarely seen and percentage-wise i do believe she's got more tank hours than me (on QP).
Last season we only did placements and she ranked like only 30sr lower than me. I don't care if she ranks higher than me or close to me, it's just kind of disheartening knowing you've spent like 400 hours yourself fucking around in QP with some comp play while someone else just picks up the game, plays for 10 hours and ranks the same or a bit higher.
Maybe i've been doing too much drunk QPing and lost more than i've realized...
I ranked like almost 200 sr lower than last season while my gf ranked almost 100sr higher than me despite me having 10 times more hours played (and wins).
Is it connected to what role you decide to play often? I've mained Tracer/Soldier with Pharah, D.va, Zarya and most recently Widow thrown into the mix (although i flex almost always). My SO mainly just runs D.va, but are beginning to branch out to trashmouse and other stuffs.
At our low sr tanks are rarely seen and percentage-wise i do believe she's got more tank hours than me (on QP).
Last season we only did placements and she ranked like only 30sr lower than me. I don't care if she ranks higher than me or close to me, it's just kind of disheartening knowing you've spent like 400 hours yourself fucking around in QP with some comp play while someone else just picks up the game, plays for 10 hours and ranks the same or a bit higher.
Maybe i've been doing too much drunk QPing and lost more than i've realized...
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Blizzard confirmed that QP MMR does impact Competitive placements on a brand new account, but honestly not by much. I made a second account this past summer and it was playing against Master/GM in QP well before it hit level 25, but it still placed at 2300, lol. I think they only use QP MMR to decide where your first placement game should be, and then all following placements are informed by the previous ones.
If it's not your first placement matches on a new account, literally nothing matters except where you ended the previous season and the placement games just count as normal games, with normal SR gains and losses (that you just can't see until you finish all 10).
It doesn't make any sense why they make you play 10 placement matches at the start of a season that's not your first. In StarCraft 2, they only make you play 1 placement match to get placed into a season that's not your first. Why Overwatch makes you do all fucking 10 over and over and over and over and over again, I have noooooo idea. And Overwatch's seasons are CONSIDERABLY shorter than StarCraft 2's. It's fucked. That they dropped seasons from 3 months to 2 months now makes it even that much worse.
Blizzard isn't clear about how placement matches work at all, which makes it even fucking dumber that they force players to play so God damn many of them. A lot of people are under the impression your SR resets every season and the placement matches are starting you fresh, when that is not the case at all.
People think the system is broken that you can go 0-10 and still place Grandmaster, but if you finished the previous season high enough in Grandmaster that 10 losses wouldn't drop you out, the system isn't broken at all. It's completely Blizzard's fault for not distinguishing the difference between initial placements and further arbitrary placements, like they already did in a game they made 7 fucking years ago.
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Ohhhhhhhhhhhh. That makes more sense now I guess. I feel like it's a shame that it's literally impossible for you to get placed in a higher rank next season unless you finished super super close to the boundary this season and you win all your placements though.
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Thanks for that Blizzard, now I'm back in Bronze :(
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lol, why do they tease you with the GM icon when they give you that message. Kind of a dick move.EDIT:
Thanks for that Blizzard, now I'm back in Bronze :(
Yea, thanks for reminding me how the system works and also confirm how i thought it was. Everything you've said i agree with and honestly the whole "invisible mmr"-shenanigans makes it even more frustrating. I think the current system (sans placements) kind of works for people in GM/top500;
but for most of us lower it's a never ending frustrating system. IMO a kind of "always progressing" system in lower ranks would help with some of the toxicity for example. I dunno, i think it's fucked up that you're doing competitive for 2 months a season, trying to climb only to return to the next season and get knocked down X sr (what i've seen it looks like most ranks about 100 sr behind what they finished at past season). I get that it's trying to inflate or whatever but eh...
I've only been doing placements each season and running QP (since i only play during the night a couple of nights a month), but since my gf started playing her interest in competitive drew me back to it and... yea.
At least people are running tanks nowadays at my SR!
It used to work in a way similar to what you're describing. If you were placing for a season that wasn't your first, it would arbitrarily knock you down 200-300SR from where you ended the previous season, and then pad the shit out of your SR gains and losses (meaning losing very little SR for losses and gaining tons for wins) for about 50 games to attempt to get you back to where you were before.
They got rid of that shit and now the system works as I described above, but they still haven't fixed making you do 10 full placement matches every new season.
I'm guessing because it used to be only GM that decayed ranks? And they just didn't update the message?
Decay has always impacted Diamond-Top500, but that message isn't about decay.
Not too long ago they changed the way it works to derank to any lower rank. The way it was before was that you would be whatever rank your SR fell into the range of (If you dropped to 1499, you would automatically be Bronze), but now you will only drop to the lower rank if you can't get back above the threshold within 5 games. This is what happened to you, you didn't get back above 1500 within 5 games, causing you to derank to Bronze.
The reason they did this was because of the confusion around GM/Top500 players that had decayed to Diamond still being in GM-level games (because the matchmaker uses your MMR and decay only drops your SR, not your MMR). So now a GM that decays to 3000 will still have the GM icon when they get back to the game. The reason they made this change was because it wasn't obvious the Diamond players in these GM games were decayed, and not actually real Diamond players.
Also it makes people that care more about the icon than their SR feel better about themselves, I guess.
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Also, aren't the SR gains and losses greater right after placements? They seem that way for me anyway. Last season I lost my first game after placements and lost 57 SR for that one game. And continued to lose or gain 50 SR for the next 4 or so games after.
On another note, I still have 4 placement matches to do I've been putting off for a while. I should do them during the week when games are better.
Not anymore. They were doing that to give players an artificial sense of progress, when in reality they were just running you on a treadmill. People saw through their bullshit and they fixed it.
And they weren't causing you to lose more points, only causing you to gain more SR for victories and lose less for defeats (like, a post-placement game in the old system would give you something around +35 SR for a win and only -15 SR for a loss). So they would artificially deflate your SR by several hundred, and then try to pad it back out like that over another 50 games to get you back to where you were. They thought this would make players feel more accomplished, but how many people have short-term memory awful enough to completely forget where they ended the last season, right? I don't know why they ever thought that was a good idea.
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Right, but I just meant the larger increase or decrease right after placements. I know last season when they didn't have that system in place that places you lower, I was both gaining and losing tons of SR per match for the first 5 or so matches. After that it went back to the standard 20-30 ish that I normally get. It was just 50+ per match which seemed like a lot. For example last season, I lost my first 3 games after placements and went down 157 SR, for just 3 games. But gained 50 back for each of the two games after.
However, it was my first season of competitive, so maybe it was doing a lot of adjusting, I dunno. Because after that it was normal gains and losses that I see everyone else get. I guess I'll check again this season when I finish placements.
I'm going to assume it was because it was your first season.
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