Overwatch |OT2-2-2| Role With It

Hella

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,926
Just seeing if anyone else has some insight for me, here, because I’m at a loss.
Overwatch kept crashing on me last night, couldn’t even get through a whole round. Happened at least a dozen times while I was playing arcade mystery heroes, if that matters.

This starting happening for no apparent reason. I didn’t patch/update the game, didn’t change anything about my config, and other games seem to run just fine (though I didn’t really run extensive tests to definitively rule out hardware issue).

When it crashes, it just quits out if the game and presents me with a prompt with option to submit bug report (which I did every time). Client is still running. I tried to scan and fix the game, didn’t help.
I'm no computer doctor, but basic things to do would be:

Update your GPU drivers
Make sure Windows is up to date

If it's something hardware related I'd think it would manifest in other programs. So basically you want to just make sure everything on your end is optimal.


If it keeps happening check the event viewer and see if that gives you any hints as to the cause. It could be a symptom of some deeper problem, or just a software quirk with your setup. Overwatch can do live updates so it's not necessarily due to something that you changed.
 

Rirse

Member
Jun 29, 2019
112
Is it sad that I don't see the difference between 30 FPS and 60? The video there for the most part just looked normal for me.
 

carlos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
127
Holy shit at the wait times on PS4. Is this game dead on the console?
Nothing better than waiting 10 minutes for DPS, start rolling, other team guy leaves, match canceled, wait 15+ minutes, and no match found.

That's nearly half an hour of wait time for 30 seconds or so of gameplay. Terrible.
 

dralla

Member
Oct 27, 2017
626
I know people hate(d)? Brig but her shield being 200HP is a joke. It's also annoying hearing her say "My shield's about to break!" every time you pull it out and take some random splash damage.
 

bardo

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,767
Nothing better than waiting 10 minutes for DPS, start rolling, other team guy leaves, match canceled, wait 15+ minutes, and no match found.

That's nearly half an hour of wait time for 30 seconds or so of gameplay. Terrible.
Yeah that put me off this morning.

I'll play it later when more peeps will be on.
I get insta-queue on heals and tank. Northeast US.
East coast NA is crazy populated.

<2 mins tank/support. 7 mins damage.
I'll try again during peak times.

Thanks, all.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,588
I need to stay off resetera during the day so I can have all new threads to read in between dps queues. I swear I spend just as much time waiting as I do playing.
 

raketenrolf

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,435
Germany
everytime I see a Sigma/Rein team combo I just want to turn the game off. Really makes me want to just stop playing the game for a few months. Which I will probably do.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,086
az
I need to stay off resetera during the day so I can have all new threads to read in between dps queues. I swear I spend just as much time waiting as I do playing.
What rank is your dps? I think my longest queue time has been about 7 minutes, but my dps rank is also like 1800. My average queue time is probably between 4 - 6 minutes.

My tank is about 2350 right now and my longest queue time was around 40 seconds, lol.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,588
I hope OW2 is just all shield characters, new dps with shields, more support with shields. Just sextuplet shield meta.

What rank is your dps? I think my longest queue time has been about 7 minutes, but my dps rank is also like 1800. My average queue time is probably between 4 - 6 minutes.

My tank is about 2350 right now and my longest queue time was around 40 seconds, lol.
Just moved to PC two weeks ago so I'm plat. Queue times are at least ten minutes minimum.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,861
No thanks, as a tank/support main the game is actually playable now
Besides that, top 500 high end players always had long queues, or are we suddenly pretending they didn't have to wait for long times before?

Reverting 2/2/2 is not the solution, as the game is in a better state now, regardless of what you think of the meta or DPS queue times. Blizzard does need to do something to improve the situation, we can all agree on that. Perhaps priority queues after playing X games as Tank/Support, priority queues for your role after a game was cancelled, stuff like that.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,588
I never thought the game was better because of 2-2-2. And I think a lot of people are starting to realize that as well. It brought in all new problems and shield meta is so much worse than goats ever was. Especially because the last few months of the goats meta, the vast majority of ranks were not playing goats and the meta allowed or so much creativity. In addition to long queues now were treated to the worst, most boring meta the game has ever had.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,861
I never thought the game was better because of 2-2-2. And I think a lot of people are starting to realize that as well. It brought in all new problems and shield meta is so much worse than goats ever was. Especially because the last few months of the goats meta, the vast majority of ranks were not playing goats and the meta allowed or so much creativity. In addition to long queues now were treated to the worst, most boring meta the game has ever had.
Please read my post again. Nice stealth edit.

The issue with what you're saying is that people were, in fact, still playing goats and even if you weren't: the second a team swapped to GOATS, you either swapped also or lose. It was a very unhealthy, unbalanced time where an entire class of characters were unplayable. People are greatly overreacting to Double Shield meta. We're yet to get our first big balance patch since 2/2/2 was incorporated (besides the initial patch).

And I can tell you what will happen: people will hate the next meta more than this one, just like people are suddenly forgiving goats for ever existing, moth before that and who knows what else. There is no meta people will universally like or hate and the sentiment 'worst, most boring meta' is true for every meta.
 
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jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,588
Please read my post again. Nice stealth edit.

The issue with what you're saying is that people were, in fact, still playing goats and even if you weren't: the second a team swapped to GOATS, you either swapped also or lose. It was a very unhealthy, unbalanced time where an entire class of characters were unplayable. People are greatly overreacting to Double Shield meta. We're yet to get our first big balance patch since 2/2/2 was incorporated (besides the initial patch).

And I can tell you what will happen: people will hate the next meta more than this one, just like people are suddenly forgiving goats for ever existing, moth before that and who knows what else. There is no meta people will universally like or hate and the sentiment 'worst, most boring meta' is true for every meta.
Haha I just had my coffee this morning so I misread the "all agree with" part.

I also disagree. The last few seasons I was ranking up smurf accounts playing nothing but torb and from gold to GM people weren't playing much goats. Especially in the lower ranks where coordination is essential for that comp. People in the upper ranks hated goats and anytime someone suggested doing it it was usually shot down because the other team would mirror it and no one wanted to play it. Goats was not the predominant meta for most overwatch players. It was prominent for GM and top 500 for sure, but it wasn't for anything under that.

Also before goats and now shield meta I never had an issue with any of the changing metas before hand. Shield meta is far less fun than goats ever was. And thats not even getting into the fact that 2-2-2 also changes how team compositions work and brings a ton of other problems to the game as well. This is all in addition to absurd queue times for most ranks trying to play dps.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,588
Goats. Goats largely ignores shields because youre just speed boosting rein into teams and sigma and orisa cant do much once a team is already on top of them.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,804
I for one would rather ply goats then shield meta but even besides this as I pointed out goats was not the predominant meta or the majority of OW ranks previously anyway. But my response was addressing why shield meta wouldn't be worse without 2-2-2.
So why wouldn't a deathball/GOATS hybrid of Rein Zarya, two close range heroes (Reaper Mei?), Lucio and Brig/Moira work against double shield? The speed boost charging principle is the same
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,588
So why wouldn't a deathball/GOATS hybrid of Rein Zarya, two close range heroes (Reaper Mei?), Lucio and Brig/Moira work against double shield? The speed boost charging principle is the same
Brig only works as a third healer. She doesn't do enough raw healing to keep up a rein charging into the entire enemy team. It worked because you could plug Brig in as a third support who also functioned as a hybrid tank/added dps. And you can't replace lucio who is the necessary support character because of speed boost. So brig/lucio would never work to achieve a similar support role in 2-2-2. You needed all 3. Further diva's ability to peel and eat up reaper's damage was another integral part of goats (not just for reaper obviously as he was never meta). You can't just take that away and assume the rein zarya lucio will be able to function exactly as it did before.

I'll also add it isn't JUST the speed boost principle. Its having three tanks with large health pools coming at you with 3 support characters that can keep you up and speed down singe targets. Having 1 less 500+ health character and 1 less hybrid support character is a significant nerf to goats which is why you didn't see it replaced with a 2-2-2 equivalent. If it would have worked you would have seen the pros jump to it immediately after spending so much time learning the goat meta.
 

BriareosGAF

Member
Oct 28, 2017
986
We're basically on 2-2-2 version 1, we're waiting for version 2 tweaks from PTR, no? 2-2-2 is great other than tweaks to shield meta and tweaks to DF that are needed, which are incoming.
 

jviggy43

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,588
See even nerfing shield meta still leaves a ton of problems.

The obvious one is queue time for DPS (stop saying to not play DPS lol thats not a real solution)

The other is having one queue for tank where we have players who play main tank and off tank queueing. You get games where you get two off tanks who refuse to try and give you a main tank, and in a shield meta its an instant loss.

Less flexibility with team compositions and filling. Before if you got two people on tank who couldn't main tank there was always the chance one of the other 4 players could hop over and fill. Youve now lost that ability and after queuing for 10 minutes now are stuck in a match where you know youve lost but have to play it out without being able to switch. Same with dps who don't swap or support characters either.

I just don't think some tweaks to characters are going to fix those issues. Not to mention after having to change how the entire game plays to balance the meta, I don't have a ton of faith Blizzard will be fixing shield meta anytime soon.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,804
Brig only works as a third healer. She doesn't do enough raw healing to keep up a rein charging into the entire enemy team. It worked because you could plug Brig in as a third support who also functioned as a hybrid tank/added dps. And you can't replace lucio who is the necessary support character because of speed boost. So brig/lucio would never work to achieve a similar support role in 2-2-2. You needed all 3. Further diva's ability to peel and eat up reaper's damage was another integral part of goats (not just for reaper obviously as he was never meta). You can't just take that away and assume the rein zarya lucio will be able to function exactly as it did before.

I'll also add it isn't JUST the speed boost principle. Its having three tanks with large health pools coming at you with 3 support characters that can keep you up and speed down singe targets. Having 1 less 500+ health character and 1 less hybrid support character is a significant nerf to goats which is why you didn't see it replaced with a 2-2-2 equivalent. If it would have worked you would have seen the pros jump to it immediately after spending so much time learning the goat meta.
Which of course brings us back to the fundamental balance issue in Overwatch that both GOATS and double shield exploit: time.

Time is everything in OW. DPS, HPS, TTK, objective time, etc. Big health pools mean more survivability time. More survivability time means more time to do damage and fill the objective. So the goal, then, is not to out-damage the other team, but to out-survive them. Only when you're confident that you have the optimal strategy to survive the longest, then you focus on damage optimization. This is why Rein/Sigma is less viable than Orisa/Sigma, despite Rein having an objectively more versatile shield - it's harder to damage optimize.

Without 2/2/2, even with severe nerfs to GOATS heroes, the optimal strategy will always be either the biggest health pools, the strongest damage mitigation, the highest HPS, optimized for damage within these limitations, and then stacking as many of them as possible. I sincerely doubt that there would be any stable future meta from this point forward that follows a traditional 2/2/2 structure because the benefits of stacking survivability will always outweigh DPS efficiency. On a similar note, I doubt Shanghai's Cinderella trip-dips run in stage 3 finals would've lasted because they already had a less-than-stellar performance with that exact composition in stage 3, and triple-DPS dive (before OWL) was quickly subsumed by a two-tank dive with D.va. The principles of that fast, aggressive mobile damage comp would have eventually been supplemented with some kind of additional survivability.

2/2/2 isn't a magic fix, but it's a start. A basis to (hopefully) lower HPS, shields, and maybe health pools. Then maybe a reduction to DPS if necessary. Speed up the game where it needs it, and slow it down in other areas. That kind of balance could not be achieved where any nerfs or deficiencies could be compensated for with an additional stack of that role.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,606
I never thought the game was better because of 2-2-2. And I think a lot of people are starting to realize that as well.
I am of the opinion that it is 1000% better. The problem is, which I've stated stated before 2-2-2 came out, that the meta will have to be rebalanced for it. Brig's release fucked everything up, to the point where they had to rework something as fundamental as armor to try and control the goats meta. Now that is gone and we have a game that has been balanced for goats for the last year suddenly goatsless.

I'm confident that once they rebalance the heroes), things will improve, but I would still rather have a guarenteed 2 healers and 2 tanks than go back to the old way of doing things. No one ever thought that 2-2-2 would be perfect, but it's still better than what we had. If anything, Sigma just happened to be a really awkward hero to introduce along with it because that shield synergy with Orisa is whats leading the double shield meta right now.

(That said, I think Sigma himself is something of a problematic design. He's another hero that can seemingly do everything really well with no obvious weakness like Orisa, Rein Winston and Hammond have.)
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,606
2/2/2 isn't a magic fix, but it's a start. A basis to (hopefully) lower HPS, shields, and maybe health pools. Then maybe a reduction to DPS if necessary. Speed up the game where it needs it, and slow it down in other areas. That kind of balance could not be achieved where any nerfs or deficiencies could be compensated for with an additional stack of that role.
The only problem is that they are making the wrong changes imo so far, atleast in regards to damage. We'll see, but I think Tracer's damage buff is leaning into the power creep when they should be moving away from it instead. But power creep has been caused by sustain creep. The game launched with Mercy's 55 hps being the highest amount of healing you could get outside of a zen ult. Now moira can aoe heal at 80 hps. To compensate, sustain damage became unfavored compared to burst, so sustain dps had to be buffed just so they could barely keep up with the burst heroes, while burst damage can barely keep up with the insane amount of heals had.

OW only became more complicated as more heroes have been added, but if they reign back the sustain creep, they can reign back the power creep, and we can get something closer to what we had at launch.
 

StallionDan

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,754
Besides that, top 500 high end players always had long queues, or are we suddenly pretending they didn't have to wait for long times before?

Reverting 2/2/2 is not the solution, as the game is in a better state now, regardless of what you think of the meta or DPS queue times. Blizzard does need to do something to improve the situation, we can all agree on that. Perhaps priority queues after playing X games as Tank/Support, priority queues for your role after a game was cancelled, stuff like that.
They need let you queue jump in DPS if you play a few games as tank or support. As it is it feels like 1/3 of the game is missing since I don't find 10+ minute queues remotely worth my time.
 

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,060
When is Blizz gonna make a char with a railgun that pierces shields to combat the shield meta?
 
OP
OP
Dead Prince

Dead Prince

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,298
Mccree can’t take down pharah. Blames it on sigma and dva. Then sym goes 76. Pharah still can’t be killed. Switches off 76 and picks doom. blames the hog. Says he was throwing and to avoid him in chat.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,606
Okay, I can't believe I didn't think of this before in regards to double shield meta, but....I think the solution may lie in reverting roadhog.

If we try to imagine that 2-2-2 isn't a thing and also that goats wouldn't just come back, then a potential solution to double shields would be a triple DPS comp that destroys or flanks the shields with overwhelming damage. But with 2-2-2, that's not possible right?

So...remember back in the day when Roadhog was mocked for not being a real tank and instead just a fat dps? Well, maybe he could use that damage back. Give the DPS that extra bit of shield break they need.
 
OP
OP
Dead Prince

Dead Prince

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,298
just played hollywood. dps ana/moira on the constant flank. i wouldn't be surprise healing for them got over 2k (without counting self healing)
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,086
az
There must be a lot of people on right now. Even my QP dps queues are short.

Although I played a game on support and somehow got a GM in every role player on my team. Maybe he had a duo partner in silver/bronze.