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Overwatch |OT2-2-2| Role With It

kurahador

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,570
I find Brigg to be highly dependant on the other healer. If your other healer prioritize healing you during a teamfight, Brigg will work great.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,973
Now that they've nerfed barriers surely they can get rid of Sigma's cooldown for his one right?
Prolly not. It's important that Sigma offers some kind of window for the enemy player to hit him through. The annoyign thing about his shield wasn't just that the HP pool was big, but that he always had it all the time and could just put it in your face at any moment.

However, they could remove the cooldown and instead extend the animation for extending and retrieving the shield to be a 1 second equivalent, so that it's atleast smoother in terms of animation.
 

Kirblar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
27,826

Pretty amusing interview with Jeff Kaplan. Not very new info, but somewhat new info especially if you have not followed OW2 closely.
At 11:12 the interviewer asks about the Shimada clan ever thinking to use Guns, and Jeff responds saying that players should be thinking more about who the other members of the Clan are.

There was spec that one of the silhouettes shown to journalists might be an updated version of an Asian female hero concept from early development, and a sister for Genji/Hanzo (perhaps the one actually leading the Clan today w/ the bros being absent?) would fit right into that.
 

Mariip

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,351
At 11:12 the interviewer asks about the Shimada clan ever thinking to use Guns, and Jeff responds saying that players should be thinking more about who the other members of the Clan are.

There was spec that one of the silhouettes shown to journalists might be an updated version of an Asian female hero concept from early development, and a sister for Genji/Hanzo (perhaps the one actually leading the Clan today w/ the bros being absent?) would fit right into that.
One of the sillhouetes had a huge shuriken, like Yuffie’s
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,368
az
Well, did my tank placements. Went 2-3 and placed 67 SR down from where I ended last season.

Its a friday afternoon so I expected bad games, kind of evened out. Got stomped twice, we stomped once, and another won because of a leaver. One of those losses was super close though.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,973
I was hypothesizing that there was a Shimada sister way before. A thriving criminal empire doesn't just collapse with no consequences, so there had to be someone still running it.

Or atleast thats what I hypothesized when I still had any hope for OW's story. Now, it's more likely a case of "Oh, a new hero? Er....wait, how about a totally unmentioned Shimada sister!"
 

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,207
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
At 11:12 the interviewer asks about the Shimada clan ever thinking to use Guns, and Jeff responds saying that players should be thinking more about who the other members of the Clan are.

There was spec that one of the silhouettes shown to journalists might be an updated version of an Asian female hero concept from early development, and a sister for Genji/Hanzo (perhaps the one actually leading the Clan today w/ the bros being absent?) would fit right into that.
Speaking personally, that sounds like a relative to Hanzo and Genji's father that had taken reigns of the empire, instead of a sister both of them have never heard about. Such as an aunt or grandmother, for example.
 

GLAVONAK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,628
doing my comp placements
two minute queue for tank
three minute queue for support
nine minute queue for damage

😔
 

Rirse

Member
Jun 29, 2019
221
I wish Capture the Flag didn't have sudden death. Every since it was added, I without fail will always lose when it happens.
 

xaosslug

Member
Oct 27, 2017
159
so, everytime a new season starts my hidden rank is tanked, so I have to play 2/2/2 qp to bring it back up, right? Because since the the new season started I've mainly only played Total Mayhem, and I keep being grouped with peeps that seemingly don't know how to play. It's not fun at all. T__T
 

Solidsnakejej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,501
Fort Lauderdale
so, everytime a new season starts my hidden rank is tanked, so I have to play 2/2/2 qp to bring it back up, right? Because since the the new season started I've mainly only played Total Mayhem, and I keep being grouped with peeps that seemingly don't know how to play. It's not fun at all. T__T
Seasons don't do anything to your MMR in any mode. Plus each mode has its own MMR. Seasons are meaningless.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,973
This doesn't seem to be internally consistent? If the Shimada clan collapsed, is that not the consequence? Who would run a collapsed clan?
What I mean is, this is a criminal enterprise. Those things don't just die because the family member that inherited the throne decides to quit.

That said, there is some confusion here. The Overwatch wiki says that there are Shimada elders that have sent assassins after Hanzo, so I assume they're the ones running things now, but the dialogue in the game outright states that the Shimada clan has fallen into disrepair in some form after Hanzo left. ( Widowmaker: "Talon could restore your family's empire." Hanzo: "But at what cost?").

So idk, maybe it's not collapsed but it's just not doing well atm.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,107
What I mean is, this is a criminal enterprise. Those things don't just die because the family member that inherited the throne decides to quit.

That said, there is some confusion here. The Overwatch wiki says that there are Shimada elders that have sent assassins after Hanzo, so I assume they're the ones running things now, but the dialogue in the game outright states that the Shimada clan has fallen into disrepair in some form after Hanzo left. ( Widowmaker: "Talon could restore your family's empire." Hanzo: "But at what cost?").

So idk, maybe it's not collapsed but it's just not doing well atm.
Yeah, we don't know the extent of any consequences of Hanzo leaving
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,464
I love having a realization that the enemy is farming GravDragon, you call it out and tell people to spread out, you spread out, and then watch people get caught in it anyway.
 

GLAVONAK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,628
finished my placements last night; tank matches were all abysmal, support matches were mostly fine aside from one where it felt like half my team decided to soft throw, damage matches were all really fun and felt pretty evenly matched (except for the last one which was a very-fun-for-us stomp on hanamura)
placed exactly where I was when I did my placements last season lol

the best part of role queue is that I no longer feel any need or urge to play comp beyond doing placements so I can get my gold weapon credits lol
 

ISOM

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,446
Who is gonna want to play SIgma as a solo shield tank with the new nerfs? It's gonna be a situation where you pretty much won't be able to run him it feels like.
 

ISOM

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,446
And that was part of his problem, he does too much. Reason brig was broken. He has too much peel potential to be a MT.
How does that make sense? The problem was double shields not him as a main tank. He has the same peel ability as an off tank but he doesn't have to worry about protecting the team. As main tank, your job is to protect the team which if you played him in that role, he was not overpowered.
 

ISOM

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,446
With the nerf of his shield, you're forcing him to stay as that peel off tank player now because you absolutely can't run him as main tank now.
 

Solidsnakejej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,501
Fort Lauderdale
How does that make sense? The problem was double shields not him as a main tank. He has the same peel ability as an off tank but he doesn't have to worry about protecting the team. As main tank, your job is to protect the team which if you played him in that role, he was not overpowered.
We've had 3 characters with shields in the game why haven't we had double shield meta before? His ability to peel was what made double shield meta.

Sombra can't do damage because instant shield in the face, his rock to stop any flanker. His peel for the back line was what made double shield so strong or else you get a flankers to disrupt it.

He is a off tank, they messed up by trying to make him a main tank. He shouldn't have had a high hp shield as an off tank.

Main tanks protect their team by taking up attention, they don't peel, Rein doesn't peel, Orisa doesn't peel, Winston doesn't peel. It's not part of the role.
 

ISOM

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,446
We've had 3 characters with shields in the game why haven't we had double shield meta before? His ability to peel was what made double shield meta.

Sombra can't do damage because instant shield in the face, his rock to stop any flanker. His peel for the back line was what made double shield so strong or else you get a flankers to disrupt it.

He is a off tank, they messed up by trying to make him a main tank. He shouldn't have had a high hp shield as an off tank.

Main tanks protect their team by taking up attention, they don't peel, Rein doesn't peel, Orisa doesn't peel, Winston doesn't peel. It's not part of the role.
He was not overpowered as fucking main tank. I don't know how hard it is to keep saying this. HIs problem is in the double shield meta as offtank/peeler, he is really fucking good in that role. So Blizzard to take away the shield tank meta, nerfed the fuck out of his shield and everyone else's. When Sigma played main tank, that means you were the only shield. You can't peel for much when you're trying to proiect your team. Why is this so hard to understand?
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,973
He was not overpowered as fucking main tank. I don't know how hard it is to keep saying this. HIs problem is in the double shield meta as offtank/peeler, he is really fucking good in that role. So Blizzard to take away the shield tank meta, nerfed the fuck out of his shield and everyone else's. When Sigma played main tank, that means you were the only shield. You can't peel for much when you're trying to proiect your team. Why is this so hard to understand?
Your acting like if you pick Sigma and decide to play him as MT, then that's all your gonna do for every second of the entire match. If your the only shield, then yeah, you'll be pulling MT duties in a lot of instances, but your also going to peel for your supports when you have the opportunity inbetween shielding.

By the same token, if double shield is going to be played, yes, Sigma will have to pull less shielding duty, but that doesn't mean he won't be doing any main-tanking at all. In fact, it's Orisa in particular that his abilities synergize with such that makes getting past the shielding such an frustrating, arduous task that is only worse for the fact taht once you get past those sheilds, you have a master peel tank in Sigma to reckon with.
 

ISOM

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,446
Your acting like if you pick Sigma and decide to play him as MT, then that's all your gonna do for every second of the entire match. If your the only shield, then yeah, you'll be pulling MT duties in a lot of instances, but your also going to peel for your supports when you have the opportunity inbetween shielding.

By the same token, if double shield is going to be played, yes, Sigma will have to pull less shielding duty, but that doesn't mean he won't be doing any main-tanking at all. In fact, it's Orisa in particular that his abilities synergize with such that makes getting past the shielding such an frustrating, arduous task that is only worse for the fact taht once you get past those sheilds, you have a master peel tank in Sigma to reckon with.
My point is that his role as main tank isn't the reason why he's getting a nerf. It's because he's a great off tank player is why and now with the nerfs he will pretty much only be able to be played in that role. You ask any high level Overwatch player and not many would say he's overpowered as main tank even with his peel ability.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,973
My point is that his role as main tank isn't the reason why he's getting a nerf. It's because he's a great off tank player is why and now with the nerfs he will pretty much only be able to be played in that role. You ask any high level Overwatch player and no many would say he's overpowered as main tank even with his peel ability.
Power in OW is different from how most other games express it.

Like, consider pharah. Many people consider her underpowered on her own because she'd hyper vulnerable in the sky by herself. But with a Mercy, she's not only viable, she's one of the biggest threats you can have. It's a beautiful symbiotic relationship where Pharah gets the sustainability she needs while Mercy gets vertical evasiveness she would not otherwise have in most situations. Maybe that's not true at all ranks, but there is a reason you basically never see any Pharah player that doesn't have Mercy covering their butt. But there has been discussion that Pharah has to be considered underpowered if she is inadequate on her own terms. Which is true in a sense. Every other DPS that can function just fine without a mercy pocketing them, but Pharah NEEDS Mercy to be viable. So, logic would seemingly dictate that Pharah should get a buff. But you can't buff Pharah without also buffing the Pharah-Mercy combo, which would result in that combo being overpowered. So they're in this weird situation where for Pharah-Mercy to be balanced, Pharah on her own has to be underpowered.

In short, you can't just look at the hero on their own. That's the situation with Sigma. You have to consider the synergies they have with others. Him being a good but not overpowered main tank doesn't change that his synergy with Orisa mades double shields overpowered, and you can only nerf double shields by nerfing the main tanking abilities of Sigma so that you don't play him as MT alone.
 

ISOM

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,446
Power in OW is different from how most other games express it. Like, consider pharah. Many people consider her underpowered on her own because she'd hyper vulnerable in the sky by herself. But with a Mercy, she's not only viable, she's one of the biggest threats you can have. It's a beautiful symbiotic relationship where Pharah gets the sustainability she needs while Mercy gets vertical evasiveness she would not otherwise have in most situations. But there has been discussion that Pharah has to be considered underpowered if she is inadequate on her own terms, unlike other DPS that can function just fine without a mercy pocketing them. But you can't buff Pharah without also buffing the Pharah-Mercy combo, which would result in that combo being overpowered. So they're in this weird situation where for Pharah-Mercy to be balanced, Pharah on her own has to be underpowered.

In short, you can't just look at the hero on their own. That's the situation with Sigma. You have to consider the synergies they have with others. Him being a good but not overpowered main tank doesn't change that his synergy with Orisa mades double shields overpowered, and you can only nerf double shields by nerfing the main tanking abilities of Sigma so that you don't play him as MT alone.
I know, I'm just sad that I probably won't be able to play him in that role when there's an off tank player on my team. He was that main shield tank that was fun to play when you didn't want to play Orisa/Rein.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,973
I know, I'm just sad that I probably won't be able to play him in that role when there's an off tank player on my team. He was that main shield tank that was fun to play when you didn't want to play Orisa/Rein.
Well, depending on your rank, you probably still can. And there's always the possibility that Blizzard decide to rework his abilities in some way to emphasize his MT abilities over off-tank. But he can't be both at the same and not have that introduce problems with how he works with other members of his team.
 

ISOM

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,446
Well, depending on your rank, you probably still can. And there's always the possibility that Blizzard decide to rework his abilities in some way to emphasize his MT abilities over off-tank. But he can't be both at the same and not have that introduce problems with how he works with other members of his team.
My fix was to only allow one shield tank per team. I think that is the better solution vs nerfing shields into the ground and making those shield heros less fun to play.
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,107
My fix was to only allow one shield tank per team. I think that is the better solution vs nerfing shields into the ground and making those shield heros less fun to play.
Yeah, nah. Sigma is the only shield tank that is less fun to play now, and even then, he is still a blast

Plus, shooting into thousands upon thousands of shield HP isn't fun for anyone
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,205
My fix was to only allow one shield tank per team. I think that is the better solution vs nerfing shields into the ground and making those shield heros less fun to play.
But those shield heroes aren't less fun to play, it's why they buffed other parts of their kits. Rein and Orisa in particular finally feel like actual tanks instead of shieldbots.
 

ISOM

Member
Nov 6, 2017
2,446
But those shield heroes aren't less fun to play, it's why they buffed other parts of their kits. Rein and Orisa in particular finally feel like actual tanks instead of shieldbots.
Well I haven't played the ptr, so I wouldn't know. I guess I will wait to see how it goes when it hits live.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,973
Well I haven't played the ptr, so I wouldn't know. I guess I will wait to see how it goes when it hits live.
I only had a few games on the PTR, but I'll tell you this: I was a tank main that couldn't stand to play tank (except for Hammond) ever since Role Queue hit and those PTR matches were the first time I had fun as a tank since then.
 

SimpleCRIPPLE

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,246
I love it when certain players who obviously need to swap to a more effective character refuse to the entire match, then finally decide to switch it up in Overtime.

You haven't done shit but die the entire match on that Bastion, but NOW you finally decide to swap to the Reaper we've desperately needed.

Love it.

Also, I can't wait for the shield meta to die.