Overwatch |OT2-2-2| Role With It

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,615
Mesa, AZ
I ended up on a stream tonight!


Starts at 4:09 mark. You will also get to hear my voice.
Now you can review your game from someone elses perspective, lol.

I wonder what the chances of being on a stream at average ranks. Its probably pretty low due to number of players and few streamers. I've only gotten on one stream that was a random encounter.
 

MG310

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,478
Multiple games tonight where the damage players have ended the match with less kills than the number of minutes they spent in the queue. Sometimes combined less than 10.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,846
Now you can review your game from someone elses perspective, lol.
One thing I've been trying to keep in mind is my positioning in relation to my team and better aura prioritization, even when I'm in the mind to try some solo actions like guarding a flanking route, because there's been cringy times in older VODS where I escape or tunnel on something and my aura is doing jack shit because I'm just too far away from the team fight. So I pleasantly surprised myself watching back his stream and noticing how often my aura was actually on Rein when we were both on the field.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,528
If Paris isn't in comp for 2 seasons in a row, I feel it's pretty indicative that they are reworking the map. Good.
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,528
They might be reworking Horizon too since most people seem to still have problems with it, but I've actually turned around on Horizon since the rework. I'd consider it one of the better 2CP maps, actually.

But hey, if they work to make it even better, I'm not gonna complain. I'm surprised Volskaya never got this kind of hatred though to justify reworking it a bit. I don't really hate volskaya, but it seems like the worst 2CP map to me other than Paris.

I don't envy the design team on this one tho. I don't have nearly as good a handle on how to design a good map as I feel I do a good hero, and after 4 years, I still don't really see people's issue with 2CP in general. I'm not even 100% sure what it is about Paris that makes it so dreadful for me to play compared to other 2CP maps which I'm usually fine with.
 
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Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,483
I'm not even 100% sure what it is about Paris that makes it so dreadful for me to play compared to other 2CP maps which I'm usually fine with.
For me it comes down to there only being 1 way to push through the choke where defense has high ground by default. Second point is a complete clusterfuck of open space (which might be personal, but I hate it. I dislike 2/3 points on Oasis for similar reasons).
 

Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,528
For me it comes down to there only being 1 way to push through the coke where defense has high ground by default. Second point is a complete clusterfuck of open space (which might be personal, but I hate it. I dislike 2/3 points on Oasis for similar reasons).
With regards to the first point...yeah, maybe, but so does Anubis. In fact, it's a pretty similar set up where the defenders have a ledge they can look down on while attacks have 3 paths they can go after they pass the choke, and that map seems to be relatively well liked. Horizon has high ground for defenders too, but admittedly attackers can bypass that one a bit more easily by going under them.

With regards to the second point, aren't all 2CP maps open space? Paris is admittedly somewhat large, but I'd say it's on par with Hanamura's Point B atleast.


I think if I was in charge of fixing Paris, I'd allow one other alternative path for the first choke, but idk how to fix point B. Throw in more stuff in it? Idk.
 
OP
OP
Dead Prince

Dead Prince

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,830
If Paris isn't in comp for 2 seasons in a row, I feel it's pretty indicative that they are reworking the map. Good.
just keep it hidden until OW2.
also i miss rialto. glad to see it back and King's Row better stay in rotation forever.

but man, the map rotation when you get in a game is poop. its so hard to get some random maps instead of the same 3
 
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turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,615
Mesa, AZ
One thing I've been trying to keep in mind is my positioning in relation to my team and better aura prioritization, even when I'm in the mind to try some solo actions like guarding a flanking route, because there's been cringy times in older VODS where I escape or tunnel on something and my aura is doing jack shit because I'm just too far away from the team fight. So I pleasantly surprised myself watching back his stream and noticing how often my aura was actually on Rein when we were both on the field.
Yeah, it is actually nice to see you on someone elses screen and doing well. I record my games sometimes and my older ones are depressing because of how bad I'm playing, lol.

I probably mentioned it, but I played in a twitch sub tournament a month or two ago, and you do feel the pressure knowing people are watching you/your team. Especially when you're one of the lower rank people on the team, and you're losing like we did.

If Paris isn't in comp for 2 seasons in a row, I feel it's pretty indicative that they are reworking the map. Good.
I don't mind Paris that much, I think its a lot better than Horizon, but its still a bottom tier map and I don't like playing it.

I wouldn't mind a re-work of the first point choke.
 

Protoman200X

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,330
N. Vancouver, BC, Canada
If Paris isn't in comp for 2 seasons in a row, I feel it's pretty indicative that they are reworking the map. Good.
I'm all for Horizon Lunar Colony and Paris to be reworked, but the issue with 2CP (as a game mode for Overwatch) is it requires too much coordination to make it work. High levels of coordination and communication in an eSports or tournament setting can give off the illusion, but on ladder, it's just not feasible when there are a multitude of factors to make it a teeth-pulling experience.
 

Solidsnakejej

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,670
Fort Lauderdale
Placements need to be removed, doesn't matter your record you'll still get place the same as where you were last season, people just throw throughout them, they're the worst part of comp
 

BriareosGAF

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,189
Yeah it's a known good strategy for climbing. That said it's painful if neither healer can rotate zen or bap if you're up against aggressive genji/reaper with no cc on dps.
 

aeolist

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
because she's been either suboptimal or just bad for quite a while now.

there's basically no comp outside of pharah pairings on some maps where mercy could not be replaced by a better healer pick. she gives low heal per second to a single target, damage boost is worse than discord orb, and she has no damage or utility of her own. then her ult just makes her slightly less bad.
Yeah it's a known good strategy for climbing. That said it's painful if neither healer can rotate zen or bap if you're up against aggressive genji/reaper with no cc on dps.
yeah she's basically a pick for people who mechanically can't play anything else.
 

Yogi

Member
Nov 10, 2019
885
She's fun, especially when you know the game very well.

I haven't been getting my SR for 2 games now :S

Also, yesterday we played against a hacker widow who was making it look like she was doing constant flick shots and rarely missing. We reported her and the game got shutdown in the second-half and said no points will be deducted as they detected a cheater. I mentioned it in my next game and this guy said he had played against her a few times that day so I guess the reports stacked up.
 

aeolist

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
You can one trick anything to a high rank if you're good. Mercy isn't the best support, but still decent. In lower ranks it doesn't even matter who you play most of the time.
i hate the "there is no meta in plat" bullshit honestly, yes you can win with anything if you outplay the other team but all things being equal there are better and worse picks. mercy is worse than any other support right now outside of a tiny number of situations. if she is on your team the other healer will have a lot of slack to pick up.
 

Salty_Josh

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,294
i hate the "there is no meta in plat" bullshit honestly, yes you can win with anything if you outplay the other team but all things being equal there are better and worse picks. mercy is worse than any other support right now outside of a tiny number of situations. if she is on your team the other healer will have a lot of slack to pick up.
I don't think they meant plat was a high rank
 

BriareosGAF

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,189
Unrelated, in addition to watching Surefour earlier in the break I've been watching Jake the past few nights. Very interesting stuff, especially his between-match Doomfist Parkour sessions, which I'd never seen before. I also like the lucidity of his analysis and how calm he is in his matches. Hope he keeps streaming with some regularity.
 

turbobrick

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,615
Mesa, AZ
i hate the "there is no meta in plat" bullshit honestly, yes you can win with anything if you outplay the other team but all things being equal there are better and worse picks. mercy is worse than any other support right now outside of a tiny number of situations. if she is on your team the other healer will have a lot of slack to pick up.
I somewhat agree. There isn't really a meta in plat because no one plays what the actual high level meta is. You can get away with bad hero picks if you're good at that hero, and abuse enemy mistakes. I played Zen into double shield in S18 with a positive win-rate because no one stays behind shields like they should. Granted this is around 2500-2600 SR.

I don't think Mercy is so bad you can't play her, but of course it also depends on what the rest of your team picks. I can't really comment about diamond and above other than what I see on Twitch, so I can't say how successful it would be. There are definitely better choices than mercy though, and I agree it will be harder, but nowhere near unwinnable.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,483
because she's been either suboptimal or just bad for quite a while now.

there's basically no comp outside of pharah pairings on some maps where mercy could not be replaced by a better healer pick. she gives low heal per second to a single target, damage boost is worse than discord orb, and she has no damage or utility of her own. then her ult just makes her slightly less bad.
None of this tells my why onetricks wouldn't be a thing above bronze. Onetricks have always and will always be a thing, regardless of strength.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,846
I have no idea why OBS is being awful. Regardless, why the fuck did this fight last this long? LET ME CAPTURE POINT:

 
Oct 25, 2017
9,336
Mercy is great, and offers much more effectiveness/utility at levels lower than diamond/master than other healers. Yeah, Ana and Baptiste offer more HPS, if your positioning isn't shit and you're not wasting your cooldowns or missing shots. Yeah, discord is better if you're not (again) positioning poorly and getting picked off with the biggest fucking healer hitbox in the game.

Mercy gets a free repositioning button, and while you can technically waste res, there aren't too many situations where ressurecting someone creates a worse outcome than if you had saved it. Where as you can definitely fuck over yourself and your team with a bad bionade, immortality lamp, amp it up, and even fade away. Plus, any one trick worth their salt knows the GA tech, so Mercy is probably the most mobile healer aside from maybe Lucio.

So no, Mercy isn't subpar, and one tricking her isn't bad because chances are, you don't want that individual on another healer.
 

aeolist

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,191
Mercy is great, and offers much more effectiveness/utility at levels lower than diamond/master than other healers. Yeah, Ana and Baptiste offer more HPS, if your positioning isn't shit and you're not wasting your cooldowns or missing shots. Yeah, discord is better if you're not (again) positioning poorly and getting picked off with the biggest fucking healer hitbox in the game.

Mercy gets a free repositioning button, and while you can technically waste res, there aren't too many situations where ressurecting someone creates a worse outcome than if you had saved it. Where as you can definitely fuck over yourself and your team with a bad bionade, immortality lamp, amp it up, and even fade away. Plus, any one trick worth their salt knows the GA tech, so Mercy is probably the most mobile healer aside from maybe Lucio.

So no, Mercy isn't subpar, and one tricking her isn't bad because chances are, you don't want that individual on another healer.
you're just saying that other healers have a higher skill ceiling, which is correct. any game in plat or above the healers should be able to play at a reasonable level though, which means you will get way more value from literally anyone else than from mercy.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,846
There are times were I could just read the room and be like "We need a Mercy," such as really spread-out or shield lacking comps, because I knew Rez would come in clutch to just keep the numbers up. At lower levels, so long as you have a basic sense of target prioritization you should be able to get value from her. And hell, rez everything. What is that gold McCree going to do to you?
 

Rirse

Member
Jun 29, 2019
387
I have no idea why OBS is being awful. Regardless, why the fuck did this fight last this long? LET ME CAPTURE POINT:

Reminds me when I had a match a few years ago where the other team kept contesting the point in overtime for about four minutes straight before they finally lose.


And since I am posting a old video, here a without audio potg from Hanzo on the enemy team that is probably the worst PotG ever seen, even more then the Tjob does nothing ones.

 
Oct 25, 2017
9,336
you're just saying that other healers have a higher skill ceiling, which is correct. any game in plat or above the healers should be able to play at a reasonable level though, which means you will get way more value from literally anyone else than from mercy.
You have much too high expectations from plat players, and oddly, way too low of an assessment of plat Mercy's.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,846
Reminds me when I had a match a few years ago where the other team kept contesting the point in overtime for about four minutes straight before they finally lose.
Oh my god. Only time I've had Overtime that long and arduous was in old-school Total Mayhem. Closest I came to that in normal play was this attack on Anubis Point B. The entire latter half was basically one big team fight. I tip my hat to the enemy:


With the respawn time lowered, there's no reason not to keep trickling in to run down the clock or maybe have a chance to hold.
That is true, but I mean; we had numbers advantage for so long, and it's not like they were employing the step trick. KILL AND BODYBLOCK. I WANT TO WIN. (I lost this match.)
 
Oct 25, 2017
9,336
if you can't hit heal shots with ana/bap or get damage with zen you shouldn't be in plat, and my assessment of plat mercys comes from playing with them. they suck shit.
Heal shots with Bap are easy, lol. I mixed up my communication by pairing them so that's my bad. Low value Baptistes come from other mistakes.

Heal shots from a plat Ana? They should be easy to land on a tank, I guess?? Again, you're expecting too much from plat players and I think it's 100% accurate to say that, at times, Mercy has higher effective HPS than Ana in platinum because she does not have to aim her healing. Like, divey DPS and even snipers can have trouble getting heals from Ana unless they're standing still.

Getting damage with Zen doesn't mean you're contributing. You could be plinking away into a pocketed Roadhog and just feeding ult to two enemy heroes. If that's honestly all you believe Zen has to do, I'm beginning to understand your mentality.
 

Nepenthe

When the music hits, you feel no pain.
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
6,846
Anas at gold and plat mainly get value from their Nades if they can land them and Nano Boosts. I rarely run into Anas that are so good at landing shots they outheal me on that parameter alone. If anything I would much rather have a Moira or a Baptiste; I'm a trash Baptiste myself but all you have to do is rely on the splash.
 

Yogi

Member
Nov 10, 2019
885
The good thing about these 10 minute queue slots is that I haven't gotten Horizon in over 4 days! I feel it's somewhat related as this never used to happen. I do get lots of repeat maps though. Soon as I get Horizon I'll know to skip that day :P

I find Mercy much funner to play than Moira. Knowing when to switch between damage boost and heal perfectly is really satisfying too. I can switch off the part of my brain that deals with aiming, like moira, but I can also fly pretty much constantly which is a big plus.

I prefer having mercys on my team vs anas, even in masters, as at least I know I'll get some healing. Ana is just too unreliable - you need good aim, line of sight, team not being behind enemy shields, good grenade and heal shot timing, to be looking at the team and not scoping on enemies, not to be bullied by flankers and to have ammo... the stars just don't usually line up, you need more consistency from a main heal.
 
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Shambalakan

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
1,538
Guys, is it too late to play Overwatch for the first time these days?
I really want to play this game, but there are lots of heroes and it scares me to start it from the beginning, 4 years after release!
I'm not a multiplayer gamer these days, but the heroes of Overwatch make me want to play it. And besides that, I loved Unreal Tournament 2003,2004 back then and was really good in those games and Overwatch gives me the same feeling, but maybe I'm wrong.
 

Noppie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,483
Guys, is it too late to play Overwatch for the first time these days?
I really want to play this game, but there are lots of heroes and it scares me to start it from the beginning, 4 years after release!
I'm not a multiplayer gamer these days, but the heroes of Overwatch make me want to play it. And besides that, I loved Unreal Tournament 2003,2004 back then and was really good in those games and Overwatch gives me the same feeling, but maybe I'm wrong.
You can always jump in, the game is not overly complicated even with so many heroes. Their designs are unique, so easy to tell apart, and you'll soon learn all of their abilities. I don't think the game will scratch that UT '03/'04 itch, but it's a fun game in it's own rights obviously :)