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Overwatch |OT2-2-2| Role With It
- Thread starter EssBeeVee
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This is why people don't understand tier lists. Sure, you can win with any character, but some are undertuned relative to the rest of the playable options, and winning consistently with them required more work and means you actually should be at a higher rank than where you are, so all else is not actually equal. People who say "aw, is it's just low ranks, you can play whatever" ignore that with two equally skilled players, the one who isn't countered or a weaker option relative to the opponent is going to be the one with the >50% winrate.
I'm really hoping tomorrow is the day Blizzard finally cops to Reaper's life steal being too much and lowers it. It wouldn't be if he had his old wraith and old shadow step, but with these abilities buffed, he's actually functional as a hero. He doesn't need that absurd amount of health steal. I just had a game where he was the only one left alive, vs my team of 4, so I left my 3 teammates to take him out because I assumed they could finish him off while I look for stragglers, but then I find out that he escaped and was nano'd in our backline when his ana came back.
It's just so blatantly stupid.
It's just so blatantly stupid.
A heads up, 3 OWL teams will be getting new skins, based on this tweet current Shock, Valiant, and Mayhem skins will be unavailable to buy after January 15th
This will probably included Shock and Valiant
This will probably included Shock and Valiant
From Kaplan on reddit
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I don't think Immortality Field as an ability is unworkable, but like defense matrix, it needs to be severely limited due to how powerful it is.
But honestly, there are better ability concepts. I would like to hear how they justified this in discussions with regards to baps hero design overall
immortality field is such a weird concept for an ability in this game anyway
if I were testing changes, I would suggest moving it to an ult (and moving amp matrix to a weaker, long cool down ability) that behaves sort of like a combo of Mei's and Zen's; a few seconds of cant-be-killed in this area (but not through healing) that goes away on its own but can be emp'd out (like Lucio's ult)
basically make it more costly to use (and more costly to misfire or have it cancelled by a Sombra) and make it less frequent (which should make it less annoying to play against)
like most of the characters they've added since the game's launch, Bap feels like he's got one thing too many and I really hope they go simpler with future characters
if I were testing changes, I would suggest moving it to an ult (and moving amp matrix to a weaker, long cool down ability) that behaves sort of like a combo of Mei's and Zen's; a few seconds of cant-be-killed in this area (but not through healing) that goes away on its own but can be emp'd out (like Lucio's ult)
basically make it more costly to use (and more costly to misfire or have it cancelled by a Sombra) and make it less frequent (which should make it less annoying to play against)
like most of the characters they've added since the game's launch, Bap feels like he's got one thing too many and I really hope they go simpler with future characters
Wrecking Ball is an oppressive PoS if you're team won't swap to counter. So much forced movement when the other team runs something like Lucio, Ball, Orisa, and Doomfist.
You're constantly being booked around.
You're constantly being booked around.
I'm seriously over the ages it takes for matchmaking. I tried a "quick game" and it was >10min wait for tank, shooter (my preference) and healer - each of them 10 min at least wait...20min later i still wasnt in a game. I've been playing since launch and am at a very healthy level 72.
So i switched over to arcade and tried every single one of the options...not one of them matched me in 20min waiting for EACH.
WTF is up with this? it didnt use to be this bad...i'm based in Australia and can see the server cloud i'm loading into is Americas. i used to enjoy playing mostly weekends/evenings but the last 2 weeks i've been on holiday and really wanted to get my Overwatch gaming i've played maybe 5 games total.
This is losing me and i loved this game - far and away my favourite multiplayer given Quake Champions is Dead and i had the same issue with DOOM(2016) where matches just wouldnt get filled.
Time to find a new multiplayer FPS i guess...maybe go back to counterstrike; but that is full of ninja-sniper like players now...sigh >>loads up fortnite>>
Sad.
So i switched over to arcade and tried every single one of the options...not one of them matched me in 20min waiting for EACH.
WTF is up with this? it didnt use to be this bad...i'm based in Australia and can see the server cloud i'm loading into is Americas. i used to enjoy playing mostly weekends/evenings but the last 2 weeks i've been on holiday and really wanted to get my Overwatch gaming i've played maybe 5 games total.
This is losing me and i loved this game - far and away my favourite multiplayer given Quake Champions is Dead and i had the same issue with DOOM(2016) where matches just wouldnt get filled.
Time to find a new multiplayer FPS i guess...maybe go back to counterstrike; but that is full of ninja-sniper like players now...sigh >>loads up fortnite>>
Sad.
The past two nights in quickplay it's said between 8 and 10 minutes for tank, but I haven't waited more than 3 minutes. I'm in the 50s, but I'm in the US, fwiw.
Was expecting this to be honest. I love playing as Baptiste but even I have to admit the character is too well rounded. Even if they were to nerf immortality, or move it to an Ult ability he would still be stupidly good with his healing output, DPS and movement.
I still like A_Seagull's idea of having Baptiste's healing heal more on direct hits, rather than how it is now. Would encourage aiming while not completely punishing his splash heals. Along with a nerf to Immortality or damage output, because that's still insanity.
I just feel like Bap has one ability too many.
If we take Immortality field and his gun as a given, taking out either jump boots or his AoE heal would result in a balanced character.
Bap without his jump boots - Super powerful healer and fighter that with a large hitbox and no escape ability
Bap without his AoE heal - Strong healer and fighter with large hitbox but ultra-high skill requirement and lack of self healing
If we take Immortality field and his gun as a given, taking out either jump boots or his AoE heal would result in a balanced character.
Bap without his jump boots - Super powerful healer and fighter that with a large hitbox and no escape ability
Bap without his AoE heal - Strong healer and fighter with large hitbox but ultra-high skill requirement and lack of self healing
Next live patch should be the 15th so PTR within a week of that with mid-February release
did my support placements: four wins and a draw, played as Lucio in all but one match and had gold healing every time (32k my last match lmao)
placed 100 sr higher than last season, not like I really care anymore lol
just give me as many gold weapon points as I can get
placed 100 sr higher than last season, not like I really care anymore lol
just give me as many gold weapon points as I can get
Meh. Permanent flying D.Va completely dominating the mid-range field isn't something I'm particularly interested in, as much as I like the character. Not that she'll see any play as long as mei is a thing.
The latest Dev post that is getting the community riled up, not surprised they don't post more.
I would like to assume they're not looking at win rates in a vacuum, I would personally say that I think power creep in Supports/tanks is more an issue in DPS. I would also say Reaper is fairly countered by Brig and Sigma and not as big of a problem as a Doomfist who can yolo out of nowhere take out a support and get out.
Also viability shouldn't be the only judge of a character in the game.
Ultimate power creep is definitely an issue though, Sigma, Doomfist, Sombra ults should be considerably change to allow for actual counter play rather then relying on a support having a defensive ult, a shield tank blocking doom's or a support with defensive ult hiding to avoid emp which harkens back to the issues with old Mercy
I would like to assume they're not looking at win rates in a vacuum, I would personally say that I think power creep in Supports/tanks is more an issue in DPS. I would also say Reaper is fairly countered by Brig and Sigma and not as big of a problem as a Doomfist who can yolo out of nowhere take out a support and get out.
Also viability shouldn't be the only judge of a character in the game.
Ultimate power creep is definitely an issue though, Sigma, Doomfist, Sombra ults should be considerably change to allow for actual counter play rather then relying on a support having a defensive ult, a shield tank blocking doom's or a support with defensive ult hiding to avoid emp which harkens back to the issues with old Mercy
Bolded is very true. There aren't enough material differences between heroes in 2-2-2 roles for ow to get to a spot where every hero can be viable in certain situations. Some heroes are always gonna be kind of unviable at a pro level. They just need to balance it so the unviable heroes are the low skill ones that are boring to watch (moira, orisa, mercy, Brigitte, etc).
edit: although they should still buff under performers obviously.
The problems as I see them in the game right now:
Baptiste - He basically has no weaknesses
Sigma - His damage output is equivalent to that of a dps with none (or few) of the drawbacks of being a tank. Seriously, they need to keep weaknesses in mind when they design characters.
Mei - Her freeze is simply too strong.
D.Va - she's not the most powerful character in the game and that is a crime
Reaper - 40% lifesteal is stupid with his buffed mobility.
Baptiste - He basically has no weaknesses
Sigma - His damage output is equivalent to that of a dps with none (or few) of the drawbacks of being a tank. Seriously, they need to keep weaknesses in mind when they design characters.
Mei - Her freeze is simply too strong.
D.Va - she's not the most powerful character in the game and that is a crime
Reaper - 40% lifesteal is stupid with his buffed mobility.
Veelk
You were right. Blizzard are too stubborn to admit their mistake.
Thier comment on the powercreep thingy is ignorant and awful. They got no clue how to balance at all.
They also doing nerf to the field cooldown and yay more mobility creep for D.VA. Yaaaay just buff buff buff nerf nerf nerf.
So damn tired of this. I'm gonna play Sekiro again and again till they wake up.
You were right. Blizzard are too stubborn to admit their mistake.
Thier comment on the powercreep thingy is ignorant and awful. They got no clue how to balance at all.
They also doing nerf to the field cooldown and yay more mobility creep for D.VA. Yaaaay just buff buff buff nerf nerf nerf.
So damn tired of this. I'm gonna play Sekiro again and again till they wake up.
Baptiste can be effectively countered by dive (although he still needs tweaks), but the number 2 and 4 on that list prevent dive from being played. Honestly the problems are not as bad as people are trying to make them (like the user above resulting to insults and generalizing the comments of one developer to the entire team) and a handful of proper changes could result in a fun game.
I'm not hopeful for anything, nor am I particularly fond of defending multibillion dollar companies on their decisions. I just roll eith what we get and take a break if I don't enjoy something.
You do you though.
I haven't played in a week actually. I was just disheartened to read the devs out of touch comment so I will probably take my break further.
r/cow is a complete shitshow atm because of this. A dev pokes his head out and a million cannons are shot it's way... I really liked Yiska's article on the matter, on how the dev didn't read the room, but the community is overreacting
I'm surprised that comment caused a shit storm. I disagree with it and evidently so does the community, but it's no like he said anything offensive. At worst, it's just that the balance is being done in a way most people don't like, which is... Welcome to Overwatch lol
Dev keeps dancing around pick rates and not really addressing power creep.
Changes to Mei is a good step but Ball is one piece of shit hero that Mei is needed for. Let's see how this goes.
Sorry if I sounded rude btw. I just don't trust the w current state of things.
Changes to Mei is a good step but Ball is one piece of shit hero that Mei is needed for. Let's see how this goes.
Sorry if I sounded rude btw. I just don't trust the w current state of things.
Regard to shield tanks, every one of them is designed with certian limitations.
Winstons is....well, it used to be the weakest of all shields, but it covered the greatest area. And, attached to Winston's jetpack, it allowed itself to be placed anywhere Winston decided to dive. In contrast, Orisa can only place her shield in front of her. She can shoot it out over a long distance, I suppose, but that's very rarely optimal, as it's shape is meant to encompass her. But once that shield is placed, Orisa is committed to staying in that spot for atleast 10 seconds. If the enemy flanks, she can't reposition the shield and, lacking mobility, all she can do is hope to survive the battle (which she might as her other abilities are handly in keeping her alive). And with Rein, his shield has the greatest hitpoints, but it's deployable at will, but perpetually attached to Rein himself, who has abiltiies that can help him in a brawl but do little over a distance.
So...Sigma
His Shield is attached to his person, like Reins, but is deployable to an area, like Orisa's. But his commitment with it is much closer to Rein's since he can recall and redeploy it with basically just a one second cooldown. His abilities that pair with it are like super charged versions of Rein adn Orisa's. Where Rein's brawler capabilities were limited by his range, Sigma has extreme midrange damage and even a stun on cooldown. Where Orisa has fortify to shield her when her shield breaks, Sigma has an absorption ability that gives him more shields.
So, it's honestly like someone took Rein's and Orisa's shield, then paired him with abilities that scrub away any limitation that shield leaves him.
Like Baptiste, Sigma feels like he has one ability too many. If he is meant to be an attack tank, one that can brawl with dps like Roadhog or D.Va, then he shouldn't have Kinetic Grasp. He should have his shield and otherwise rely on his offensive abilities. Or, he should be a defender tank, something like a more mobile Orisa, and just be super hard to actually do damage to and lack that Accretion ability. But if he has both, then he basically has no weakness.
Winstons is....well, it used to be the weakest of all shields, but it covered the greatest area. And, attached to Winston's jetpack, it allowed itself to be placed anywhere Winston decided to dive. In contrast, Orisa can only place her shield in front of her. She can shoot it out over a long distance, I suppose, but that's very rarely optimal, as it's shape is meant to encompass her. But once that shield is placed, Orisa is committed to staying in that spot for atleast 10 seconds. If the enemy flanks, she can't reposition the shield and, lacking mobility, all she can do is hope to survive the battle (which she might as her other abilities are handly in keeping her alive). And with Rein, his shield has the greatest hitpoints, but it's deployable at will, but perpetually attached to Rein himself, who has abiltiies that can help him in a brawl but do little over a distance.
So...Sigma
His Shield is attached to his person, like Reins, but is deployable to an area, like Orisa's. But his commitment with it is much closer to Rein's since he can recall and redeploy it with basically just a one second cooldown. His abilities that pair with it are like super charged versions of Rein adn Orisa's. Where Rein's brawler capabilities were limited by his range, Sigma has extreme midrange damage and even a stun on cooldown. Where Orisa has fortify to shield her when her shield breaks, Sigma has an absorption ability that gives him more shields.
So, it's honestly like someone took Rein's and Orisa's shield, then paired him with abilities that scrub away any limitation that shield leaves him.
Like Baptiste, Sigma feels like he has one ability too many. If he is meant to be an attack tank, one that can brawl with dps like Roadhog or D.Va, then he shouldn't have Kinetic Grasp. He should have his shield and otherwise rely on his offensive abilities. Or, he should be a defender tank, something like a more mobile Orisa, and just be super hard to actually do damage to and lack that Accretion ability. But if he has both, then he basically has no weakness.
Mei is the strongest counter to Ball there is, but it's not that bad. He feels kind of like Doom where if you don't CC him, he's unstoppable but if you do, he's helpless. Doom was only powerful during goats and double shield since he was one of the few that could ignore shields, but otherwise is always going to be extremely vulnerable to CC, and that's kind of where Hammond is at.
Ball mobility and tankness are way too strong. Add D.VA boosters buff and you got another tank flying and CCing your face.
I don't believe it's as simple as one CC and they are done. Mei kept him in check. If they touch Mei, they also need to see Ball.
Doom is still strong. Same with Hanzo but the devs refuse to see that and rather tell us how Genji and Soldier are fine in GM.
I don't mind Doom being strong. I just don't want him too strong. He has his counters in CC (and long range damage), so he can be contained, but is a terror if he isn't. He has a clear weakness. I'm fine with that as game design (see my sigma commentary above).
With Ball, no, 1 CC doesn't do the trick, but it does severely damage him and gives you plenty of ult charge. But if you CC him twice, he's almost certainly dead. McCree Flashbangs him and Brig stuns him with the team focusing him (which they should), you feast on his corpse. Sombra can also hack him or Ana can sleep him or Orisa can Halt him or Hog can Hook him. Also high damage dealers like Reaper or Bastion eat him alive.
If you nerf Mei into unplayableness (which I don't think most people want anyway, they just want her tuned down a bit), then his worst fear sans maybe sombra is off the table, but there's still plenty of counters. And if not, then he will just get patched accordingly in another month or two. Such is the way of OW.
I'm not saying he has literally everything. Just enough to not have a notable weakness. His lack of mobility isn't a weakness if his defense is so strong that he doesn't need mobility.
That said, he can fly with his ultimate ability, so he has mobility, relatively minor and circumstantial though it may be.
You can touch Mei while still having her viable and a counter to Ball. It's a bit overreactionary, as usual with the community I guess, to assume 'changes to X = garbage, Y is OP now'. Especially when we don't even know the changes.
As I said, we shall see. Knowing Blizzard, they either buff alll the way or nerf all the way. That's why I don't fancy their balance much.
Remember how they lied how they are not doing big nerfs or big buffs, only small changes?? Because i do.
I don't see it. As he is now, he's awful unless he's paired with another shield tank, as he doesn't have the defensive capabilities to be able to front-line by himself. Of course, once he does have that second shield to play around, he can feel oppressive as his left click has a bit too much going on for how much damage it does (it has aoe, can be angled round corners, and is very bursty).
So...I burnt out in the beta waay back and only ever played two hours after the actual release and dropped it. For no reason at all I got the urge to play some Overwatch today.
Game is so different from what I remember but I am having a good time. Probably need to hunt down some guides /primers to catch up a bit.
The commend system seems very cool though, pretty certain it wasn't in the game when I played.
Game is so different from what I remember but I am having a good time. Probably need to hunt down some guides /primers to catch up a bit.
The commend system seems very cool though, pretty certain it wasn't in the game when I played.
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