PAL Charts - Week 26, 2018

Deleted member 32018 · Jul 2, 2018

MrTired said:
He said talking to someone with access to numbers.

Which I said in my post if you actually read it? Just because he has the data doesn't mean his interpretation of the data is always 100% right lol. I even agreed that it being a mature game hasn't helped sales but there are other contributing factors.

ZhugeEX said:
It depends on the game but I think in general that is true for most.

The reason I'm calling out mature games is because whilst late ports may sell X. Late ports of mature games in general usually sell lower than X.

That's fair.

Plum · Jul 2, 2018

ZhugeEX said:
Wolf 2 absolutely bombed on Switch. It sold less than the packaged PC version did in its first week. I didn't know people even purchased packaged PC games anymore. Switch is suffering from a similar issue to prior Nintendo consoles where mature games never sold well.

Maybe that's because Wolfenstein 2 was a full-priced port of a relatively content-lacking game that was both barely advertised and didn't sell all that well in the first place? I just find this "mature games don't sell!" argument useless when it's only one (unproven) factor in a massive sea of other factors. That and, as of right now, the only major mature game to have a day-and-date release on Switch has been L.A. Noire which, even then, had a higher price, a mandatory download and a lack of overall popularity to muddy the argument. I know you have access to the numbers but to throw away any form of scientific logic behind what is essentially a scientific argument (mature games don't sell because Nintendo fans don't like mature games) just seems weird to me.

It's even more hokey when, even to your admission, games like Skyrim have done well on the console, why does that suddenly not count whereas this does?

Braaier · Jul 2, 2018

MrTired said:
He said talking to someone with access to numbers.

Which is why he is being questioned because we have a good idea that certain mature games have sold well on the Switch. So of course he will be questioned when he makes a blanket statement that mature games do not sell well on Switch.

Plum said:
Maybe that's because Wolfenstein 2 was a full-priced port of a relatively content-lacking game that was both barely advertised and didn't sell all that well in the first place? I just find this "mature games don't sell!" argument useless when it's only one (unproven) factor in a massive sea of other factors. I know you have access to the numbers but to throw away any form of scientific logic behind what is essentially a scientific argument (mature games don't sell because Nintendo fans don't like mature games) just seems weird to me.

It's even more hokey when, even to your admission, games like Skyrim have done well on the console, why does that suddenly not count whereas this does?

He's thrown quite the caveat in there. Mature games that are not popular do not do well on the Switch. Ooooookay

Sander VF · Jul 2, 2018

I'm still really curious about DOOM.

Tiber · Jul 2, 2018

I imagine that heads are literally exploding within Nintendo HQ - a port released under 4 years after original release, that isn't £15 more expensive than the other versions sold well? I assume this possibly (especially the price) never even occurred to them, it certainly isnt the Nintendo way

808s & Villainy · Jul 2, 2018

ZhugeEX said:
It depends on the game but I think in general that is true for most.

The reason I'm calling out mature games is because whilst late ports may sell X. Late ports of mature games in general usually sell lower than X.

Aren't the late ports of mature games usually among the more expensive Switch titles as well?

MrTired · Jul 2, 2018

steviejd1 said:
It being a "mature" game isn't the biggest issue either...It launched same day as Crash, it doesn't have great WoM, although I may have over exaggerated saying it completely bombed when it first came out it still didn't do great (was only 4th in the UK charts on release) and it's too expensive for a year late port (only games like Skyrim and GTAV would be able to get away with being full price in my opinion).

Chart position tells you only relative sales not how much it's sold. Again the price didn't help nor coming out after the other SKU's however to porting is difficult and they need to recuperate the cost. What bad WoM do you refer to.

Gotdatmoney · Jul 2, 2018

I agree that mature ganes have harder times selling on Nintendo systems in general. But I also think that the same way you have to build an audience for family friendly and kid oriented games or shooter or sports games etc etc you have to build an audience for Mature titles too. And the best way to do that is to have consistent releases of the biggest franchises.

Getting CoD, GTA and Battlefield would do more to position a Nintendo console as a legitimate place to play Mature games than getting a 20 decent selling Mature titles.

As is now though I bought Crash and didn't buy Wolfenstein so I'm part of the problem. Crash had a good price.

~Fake · Jul 2, 2018

ZhugeEX said:
Looking at the numbers, The Crew 2 is much lower than expected, especially when compared to the original game. I'm conscious GfK data is pretty much not worth looking at given lack of digital sales, but I'd be surprised if it gets anywhere near Crew 1's opening with digital.

Crash did well for a year late port. Switch ver. opening was higher than DKTF but not significantly so.

Wolf 2 absolutely bombed on Switch. It sold less than the packaged PC version did in its first week. I didn't know people even purchased packaged PC games anymore. Switch is suffering from a similar issue to prior Nintendo consoles where mature games never sold well.

Well, no so good for people hyped about the miracle port (god save us about that df thread), but I was expected a better job for Wolf2.
Never get much hype for crew, but maybe the car games have a good competition or just not the fame people claim early. Who knows...
Still happy for Crash even with the NS catalogy this year. Happy to see you speaking about 'year latter' because this is really matters. Crash its already a year old game, but the combo + price give people a amazing deal unlike selling old game at full price.

Good for everyone, well except for Wolf2. Hope Doom Eternal change thinks.

Visanideth · Jul 2, 2018

The endless cycle of rationalization about third party ports failing on Nintendo platforms is mesmerizing.

There's always excuses, and ultimately they all boil down to "We can't tell if third party games would do well on Nintendo platforms because they're never released at the same time as other versions with their features intact" and I'm here scratching my head thinking "That's never going to happen unless Nintendo starts launching up-to-date hardware with a release window somewhat aligned to the other 2 companies", which basically means we're forever cursed with discussing third party games selling a small fraction of what they sell on other platforms and debate on the same what ifs we were discussing during the Wii and WiiU days... every week.

Braaier · Jul 2, 2018

MrTired said:
Chart position tells you only relative sales not how much it's sold. Again the price didn't help nor coming out after the other SKU's however to porting is difficult and they need to recuperate the cost. What bad WoM do you refer to.

What's funny is the reviews were actually pretty good, but it definitely had bad word of mouth. I recall seeing numerous threads on here with folks being disappointed in the game.

Visanideth said:
The endless cycle of rationalization about third party ports failing on Nintendo platforms is mesmerizing.

There's always excuses, and ultimately they all boil down to "We can't tell if third party games would do well on Nintendo platforms because they're never released at the same time as other versions with their features intact" and I'm here scratching my head thinking "That's never going to happen unless Nintendo starts launching up-to-date hardware with a release window somewhat aligned to the other 2 companies", which basically means we're forever cursed with discussing third party games selling a small fraction of what they sell on other platforms and debate on the same what ifs we were discussing during the Wii and WiiU days... every week.

Huh? What other games are you referencing? This is the only third party Switch game I can think of that bombed on the Switch and sold better relatively on the other consoles. Maybe South Park. What else you got? Switch games have tended to do well actually, so I'm not sure what I'm missing here

Saint-14 · Jul 2, 2018

silva1991 said:
I wonder if Crash sold more than 4m units at this point. The great word of mouth for this masterpiece keeps it selling great.

I think Zhuge once said the PS4 version is above 4 million.

Braaier said:
Regardless as to WHY it was only on the PS4 for the past year, there is no evidence to suggest that Activision was reluctant to port it to the Switch. If they were reluctant, why did they release it on the Switch the same day as the Xbox and PC versions? If they were reluctant a Switch port would come much later. Or is that poster stating they were reluctant to port it to any other platform, including the Xbox and PC? That would not make any sense at all. The game sold well on the PS4. Why would they be reluctant to port it to as many platforms as possible? I'm still scratching my head at that post. Reluctant? Really??

No, they weren't reluctant, they just couldn't because there was an exclusivity deal, I was just talking about the nature of the deal which as far as the devs have said it looks like Sony had a hand in the making of the game and not just money swap.

MrTired · Jul 2, 2018

Braaier said:
What's funny is the reviews were actually pretty good, but it definitely had bad word of mouth. I recall seeing numerous threads on here with folks being disappointed in the game.

The only thread I seen is where there's been negativity is the DF thread. As you said it review really well.

808s & Villainy · Jul 2, 2018

Visanideth said:
The endless cycle of rationalization about third party ports failing on Nintendo platforms is mesmerizing.

More like whenever a port does well it's discredited in some way ("Switch has no games", "It only actually did so-so", and a host of reasons, but whenever one does badly it's instantly "3rd parties don't sell"

Tiber · Jul 2, 2018

Interfectum said:
How did South Park end up doing on Switch? Disappointment?

Perfect game for the Switch and I wanted it for ages on that platform, but it launched so late and at the wrong price. As someone who dearly wanted to play it on Switch I didn't even consider buying it

Deleted member 32018 · Jul 2, 2018

MrTired said:
Chart position tells you only relative sales not how much it's sold. Again the price didn't help nor coming out after the other SKU's however to porting is difficult and they need to recuperate the cost. What bad WoM do you refer to.

WoM such as the difficulty, bugs especially in the steam version, some didn't like the story or the blandness of the levels and many thought that the first was better. It reviewed well by critics yes I would agree with that obviously with the 87 meta.

This link describes a few of the issues:

https://kotaku.com/wolfenstein-ii-six-months-later-1825582710

Tiber said:
Perfect game for the Switch and I wanted it for ages, but it launched so late and at the wrong price. As someone who dearly wanted to play it on Switch I didn't even consider buying it

South Park needed to have both games bundled I think but at least we know Ubisoft is continuing to support the Switch anyway.

dragonbane · Jul 2, 2018

Jarod McChicken said:
Detroit remained on the top 10 value (and unit) one month after the release.

That's fantastic legs for the kind of game it is. At least ranking wise those legs are better than even Heavy Rain.

mejin · Jul 2, 2018

How does the multi Crash launch compares to the PS4 one last year?

Pancakes R Us · Jul 2, 2018

mrfusticle said:
I'm happy for people who buy and enjoy Crash but It's still a shit game.
My missus (by no measure a gamer) is pondering forking out 35 quid to buy it having only played Puyo Tetris so far since Switch launch. The pull of nostalgia is mighty.

Haters gonna hate.

Glad this game is doing really well. Hopefully Activision will be persuaded to bring Spyro to Switch also. Audience is perfect for it.

~Fake · Jul 2, 2018

dragonbane said:
That's fantastic legs for the kind of game it is. At least ranking wise those legs are better than even Heavy Rain.

Indeed. Very happy about all those android legs.

silva1991 · Jul 2, 2018

Saint-14 said:
I think Zhuge once said the PS4 version is above 4 million.

No, they weren't reluctant, they just couldn't because there was an exclusivity deal, I was just talking about the nature of the deal which as far as the devs have said it looks like Sony had a hand in the making of the game and not just money swap.

Good to know. 5m when all said and done is possible then.

Crash Racing when Sony/Acti?

Gotdatmoney · Jul 2, 2018

Visanideth said:
The endless cycle of rationalization about third party ports failing on Nintendo platforms is mesmerizing.

There's always excuses, and ultimately they all boil down to "We can't tell if third party games would do well on Nintendo platforms because they're never released at the same time as other versions with their features intact" and I'm here scratching my head thinking "That's never going to happen unless Nintendo starts launching up-to-date hardware with a release window somewhat aligned to the other 2 companies", which basically means we're forever cursed with discussing third party games selling a small fraction of what they sell on other platforms and debate on the same what ifs we were discussing during the Wii and WiiU days... every week.

Tbh I think it's more simple than that. If I'm a third party and I want to port a mature game to the Switch I should port my biggest franchise.

Skyrim, CoD, RE have done well because they are big franchises most people have heard of and would be down to try.

Porting smaller stuff is probably going to get you in trouble in a lot of markets.

Braaier · Jul 2, 2018

MrTired said:
The only thread I seen is where there's been negativity is the DF thread. As you said it review really well.

There was actually quite a bit of negativity in the OT, which is unusual.

And then you had these types of threads (found them after a very quick search):

https://www.resetera.com/threads/wolfenstein-2-is-surprisingly-bad-shooter.6680/

https://www.resetera.com/threads/so-is-wolfenstein-2-not-worth-playing.21866/

So yes, there was negative wom around this game.

Lord Brady · Jul 2, 2018

ZhugeEX said:
It depends on the game but I think in general that is true for most.

The reason I'm calling out mature games is because whilst late ports may sell X. Late ports of mature games in general usually sell lower than X.

Where would that put the upcoming Dark Souls remaster? Is the thinking that it's going to bomb as well? And do we know if Skyrim sold well on Switch?

MrTired · Jul 2, 2018

Visanideth said:
The endless cycle of rationalization about third party ports failing on Nintendo platforms is mesmerizing.

There's always excuses, and ultimately they all boil down to "We can't tell if third party games would do well on Nintendo platforms because they're never released at the same time as other versions with their features intact" and I'm here scratching my head thinking "That's never going to happen unless Nintendo starts launching up-to-date hardware with a release window somewhat aligned to the other 2 companies", which basically means we're forever cursed with discussing third party games selling a small fraction of what they sell on other platforms and debate on the same what ifs we were discussing during the Wii and WiiU days... every week.

Tiber · Jul 2, 2018

Is the steam top sellers list an actual chart? Or is this kinda random?

Plum · Jul 2, 2018

ZhugeEX said:
It depends on the game but I think in general that is true for most.

The reason I'm calling out mature games is because whilst late ports may sell X. Late ports of mature games in general usually sell lower than X.

That is still ignoring a whole host of factors. For one, the late ports of mature games on Switch... all 5 of them so far, have generally been undermarketed, overpriced and launched with mediocre performance or other issues such as mandatory downloads (LA Noire, DOOM, Wolf 2) or game-breaking bugs (South Park). They also, apart from Skyrim (which, coincidentally, sold quite well on Switch), haven't been in terribly 'large' franchises, whereas many of the late ports of more casual games have massive names like Mario, Crash and Zelda behind them.

So, right now, we have three categories. Correct me if I'm wrong:

Mature late ports that sold decently-to-well on Switch:
- Skyrim
- Bayonetta 1+2

Mature late ports that sold 'OK' on Switch:
- DOOM

Mature late ports that sold poorly on Switch:
- South Park: TFBH
- Wolfenstein 2
- Payday 2 (?)

And then add in LA Noire, which I'm assuming sold OK, and the not-mature-but-still-not-like-Nintendo-games such as Fifa, NBA and WWE (which, again, I'm assuming sold OK, OK and Poorly respectively) and I don't really see enough evidence there to conclusively decide that Nintendo fans don't buy mature third party games. This is especially true when many of the games that sold poorly were either broken ports, overpriced ports, or both. Dark Souls could have been a good indicator of how well a third party mature game could do on Switch but, of course, that had to be delayed as well.

Deleted member 32018 · Jul 2, 2018

Lord Brady said:
Where would that put the upcoming Dark Souls remaster? Is the thinking that it's going to bomb as well? And do we know if Skyrim sold well on Switch?

Dark Souls certainly isn't going to do as well as it could have due to the delay but it's difficult to say. From the information out in the public so far it's sales for the other consoles seems kind of soft so I don't expect great numbers for the Switch either.

Deleted member 8408 · Jul 2, 2018

Tiber said:
Is the steam top sellers list an actual chart? Or is this kinda random?

It's an actual chart based on value rather than "units" AFAIK.

~Fake · Jul 2, 2018

Wow... Crash shook the head of many people here.

Gotdatmoney · Jul 2, 2018

I think era and other enthusiast boards are like the only places that care about mandatory downloads for physical. Likewise I dont think many average buyers inform themselves of a lot of the nuance that people quote here.

All I have really deduced is launch big franchises and you'll do okay and if you launch day and date you do significantly better than being late on Nintendo platforms.

Other than that I dont see huge huge indicators that WoM and stuff hurt Wolf or other similar games. Maybe price since its expensive but the cost is built into the justification for porting so.

OG_Thrills · Jul 2, 2018

SOD2 has been preforming quite badly these past weeks in terms of physical sales here in the UK. It's making me wonder how SOD2 and SOT are actually doing for XBOX beyond the PR players spin. Especially since I played both and never dropped a penny for the privilege in either instance.

Gnorman · Jul 2, 2018

Gotdatmoney said:
I agree that mature ganes have harder times selling on Nintendo systems in general. But I also think that the same way you have to build an audience for family friendly and kid oriented games or shooter or sports games etc etc you have to build an audience for Mature titles too. And the best way to do that is to have consistent releases of the biggest franchises.

Getting CoD, GTA and Battlefield would do more to position a Nintendo console as a legitimate place to play Mature games than getting a 20 decent selling Mature titles.

As is now though I bought Crash and didn't buy Wolfenstein so I'm part of the problem. Crash had a good price.

Some of the responsibility for building an audience for mature games falls to Nintendo.

Mory Dunz · Jul 2, 2018

ARMS charting in the Switch chart in the UK?

That's the most surprising thing today lol

Deleted member 32018 · Jul 2, 2018

Visanideth said:
The endless cycle of rationalization about third party ports failing on Nintendo platforms is mesmerizing.

There's always excuses, and ultimately they all boil down to "We can't tell if third party games would do well on Nintendo platforms because they're never released at the same time as other versions with their features intact" and I'm here scratching my head thinking "That's never going to happen unless Nintendo starts launching up-to-date hardware with a release window somewhat aligned to the other 2 companies", which basically means we're forever cursed with discussing third party games selling a small fraction of what they sell on other platforms and debate on the same what ifs we were discussing during the Wii and WiiU days... every week.

You realise you are saying this in a thread where a third party port has actually done well and missed out on top spot in the individual charts by 250 copies right?

Kelanflyter · Jul 2, 2018

ZhugeEX said:
Let me put it this way. The PS4 and XB1 versions sold almost the same amount as the Switch version this week alone. Which isn't much different from what those two versions sold last week. Wolf 2 has been out for almost a year. It didn't bomb everywhere, it just isn't on par with more popular shooters for obvious reasons. Hence my explanation that the Switch version did terribly all things considered.

The reason I mention mature games is because it's a longstanding trend. Skyrim did well but others have suffered.

To be fair, Wolf2 onPS4/XO could be bought for a fraction of the price of the Switch SKU.

For exemple in France, the week of WOlf 2 on Switch (49€), FNAC.COM had the PS4/XO Sku at 7€ (Still 10€ now)
Also, the game came the same week as Crash, and didn't even stand a chance

Sander VF · Jul 2, 2018

Gotdatmoney said:
Other than that I dont see huge huge indicators that WoM and stuff hurt Wolf or other similar games. Maybe price since its expensive but the cost is built into the justification for porting so.

Perhaps I'm being fooled by the ERA bubble, but there was certainly greater excitement for DOOM than for Wolfenstein 2.

Tiber · Jul 2, 2018

Tiber said:
Is the steam top sellers list an actual chart? Or is this kinda random?

Top on (presumably the UK) steam chart, Same with the UK Amazon (I know some don't care for these lists, but I find them interesting)

On a side note.... I really want Jurassic World Evolution

Gotdatmoney · Jul 2, 2018

Gnorman said:
Some of the responsibility for building an audience for mature games falls to Nintendo.

Most of it falls on Nintendo imo. Doesn't really change my point though. Big games create market for small games. Unless some medium to small franchise blows up its gonna be tough to get that mind share.

Sander VF said:
Perhaps I'm being fooled by the ERA bubble, but there was certainly greater excitement for DOOM than for Wolfenstein 2.

You're not wrong but era WoM doesn't translate into regular people perception.

Visanideth · Jul 2, 2018

steviejd1 said:
You realise you are saying this in a thread where a third party port has actually done well and missed out on top spot in the individual charts by 250 copies right?

It's Crash Bandicoot in the UK. It's also a budget price title and it sold more on XBox One. It's really not the example you want to prove that 3rd parties are thriving on Switch.

In fact, here you have a case of a game that could be released with all of its features including graphics intact on Switch, in the genre that is most popular on the console, and it still lost... to XBox One. Not a very good look.

Saint-14 · Jul 2, 2018

mejin said:
How does the multi Crash launch compares to the PS4 one last year?

I think Crash opened over 100k on PS4, it isn't even close.

Plum · Jul 2, 2018

Gotdatmoney said:
I think era and other enthusiast boards are like the only places that care about mandatory downloads for physical. Likewise I dont think many average buyers inform themselves of a lot of the nuance that people quote here.

All I have really deduced is launch big franchises and you'll do okay and if you launch day and date you do significantly better than being late on Nintendo platforms.

Other than that I dont see huge huge indicators that WoM and stuff hurt Wolf or other similar games. Maybe price since its expensive but the cost is built into the justification for porting so.

Saying that "consumers don't care about mandatory downloads that directly affect them," whilst also saying "consumers feel a high price is justified due to porting costs," is strange. Mandatory downloads and price are both things that negatively affect the consumer yet consumers only care about one of them, and care in a way that goes against their own best interests?

mrfusticle · Jul 2, 2018

Pancakes R Us said:
Haters gonna hate.

Glad this game is doing really well. Hopefully Activision will be persuaded to bring Spyro to Switch also. Audience is perfect for it.

No hate here mate :)
I'm happy for everyone it's a successful game.. I'm just saying it's selling point is not that it's a good one.

Sander VF · Jul 2, 2018

Visanideth said:
In fact, here you have a case of a game that could be released with all of its features including graphics intact on Switch, in the genre that is most popular on the console, and it still lost... to XBox One. Not a very good look.

I'd almost be willing to do an avatar bet that it will outdo Xbone worldwide.

Especially if it lost so incredibly narrowly in a market where Switch performs relatively weaker.

As well as Xbone's second biggest market.

Visanideth · Jul 2, 2018

Sander VF said:
I'd almost be willing to do an avatar bet that it will outdo Xbone worldwide.

Especially if it lost so incredibly narrowly in a market where Switch performs relatively weaker.

As well as Xbone's second biggest market.

I don't think anyone would take that bet. It MUST sell more worldwide. Significantly. The XBox version selling more than the Switch one would actually be a meaningful event.

patapon · Jul 2, 2018

mejin said:
How does the multi Crash launch compares to the PS4 one last year?

According to zhuge Crash sold a bit better than DK on switch, which I think was near 12k. Xbox version must also be in the same range. On PS4, crash sold over 100k. I doubt the sales of these versions combined can come even close to what Crash sold on PS4 in UK and globally.

Sander VF · Jul 2, 2018

Visanideth said:
I don't think anyone would take that bet. It MUST sell more worldwide. Significantly. The XBox version selling more than the Switch one would actually be a meaningful event.

So then you expect a third party game to sell well on Switch.

As have numerous others.

Deleted member 32018 · Jul 2, 2018

Visanideth said:
It's Crash Bandicoot in the UK. It's also a budget price title and it sold more on XBox One. It's really not the example you want to prove that 3rd parties are thriving on Switch.

In fact, here you have a case of a game that could be released with all of its features including graphics intact on Switch, in the genre that is most popular on the console, and it still lost... to XBox One. Not a very good look.

I'm not sure why you think it selling as well as the XB1 version is bad? I'm not sure that you understand the UK market and the fact that the XB1 sells well here compared to most other European countries.

Visanideth · Jul 2, 2018

Sander VF said:
So then you expect a third party game to sell well on Switch.

As have numerous others.

First a disclaimer: we should agree on a definition of "selling well". Because if Skyrim did the numbers it did on Switch on the other big consoles, the Elder Scrolls series would be dead. And this ultimately brings us to discussing "selling well for the platform" vs "selling well for the developer" and we're back to square one.

Nobody is arguing that third party games will never sell on Switch. The point of discussion is that in this world were Tomb Raider can sell 4 million copies and be considered a failure, the Switch is a platform were 250.000 units are considered a success, and that makes it a non-entity for third party developers. Sure, they'll have their late ports because nobody hates money but if you expect any third party dev to start creating a game with the Switch in mind you're delusional, and that's the problem for Switch users.

mejin · Jul 2, 2018

patapon said:
According to zhuge Crash sold a bit better than DK on switch, which I think was near 12k. Xbox version must also be in the same range. On PS4, crash sold over 100k. I doubt the sales of these versions combined can come even close to what Crash sold on PS4 globally.

Saint-14 said:
I think Crash opened over 100k on PS4, it isn't even close.

ah, I see. thanks

PAL Charts - Week 26, 2018

User requested account closure

User requested permanent ban

User requested account closure

User requested permanent ban

User requested account closure

User requested account closure

User requested permanent ban

User requested account closure

User requested account closure