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PAL Charts - Week 26, 2018

Nov 8, 2017
3,643
0
30
If we really have to suffer through ya'll arguing, you did say "sold well going by your standards" which was 20k.
Where did we determine that was the standard? I could have continued arguing and saying what about 30k and he would have said that wouldn't matter either. That's not what I meant at all lol. I can name about 20 titles that would have crossed 20k.

Still doesn't answer the less than 5 comment but I'll drop it for the sake of the thread.
 
Oct 28, 2017
5,243
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Saying that "consumers don't care about mandatory downloads that directly affect them," whilst also saying "consumers feel a high price is justified due to porting costs," is strange. Mandatory downloads and price are both things that negatively affect the consumer yet consumers only care about one of them, and care in a way that goes against their own best interests?
Eh, I absolutely didnt say that. Read it again
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,575
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Good to know. 5m when all said and done is possible then.

Crash Racing when Sony/Acti?
They lost 1 million fans from Japan, don’t know how it didn’t do well there. Japanese Crash has some differences so maybe the western edition didn’t appeal to them.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,524
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They lost 1 million fans from Japan, don’t know how it didn’t do well there. Japanese Crash has some differences so maybe the western edition didn’t appeal to them.
Eh, outside of stuff like DQ and MH I couldn't care less about how games sell in Japan. Thankfully the rest of the world knows what's up and are appreciating Crash.
 
Mar 13, 2018
405
0
It's Crash Bandicoot in the UK. It's also a budget price title and it sold more on XBox One. It's really not the example you want to prove that 3rd parties are thriving on Switch.


In fact, here you have a case of a game that could be released with all of its features including graphics intact on Switch, in the genre that is most popular on the console, and it still lost... to XBox One. Not a very good look.
It lost to a Console with a userbase over 4 times as large. If I'm looking at this regarding potential sales then if xbox and switch had an equal userbase, Switch would have thrashed the xbox.
 
Dec 7, 2017
3,006
0
It lost to a Console with a userbase over 4 times as large. If I'm looking at this regarding potential sales then if xbox and switch had an equal userbase, Switch would have thrashed the xbox.
Yup. I imagine switch version must have thrashed xbox version already if we take whole EU into account.
 
Switch is suffering from a similar issue to prior Nintendo consoles where mature games never sold well.
As I noted. Some mature games do well. Mature games didn't sell on Wii but that didn't stop Call of Duty and Resident Evil selling well. It's just they never sold on the same level as other platforms of course.

The reason I note mature games is because it's the same cycle with every recent hardware generation, both home and portable. The majority of units sold on PS/XB are mature games whereas the least number of units sold on Nintendo platforms are mature games. Whilst some mature games like Skyrim and Nintendo pushing Bayonetta has led to good results, the majority of mature games don't sell on the same level as other games.
You made a backpedalling after your strawmen was shot down by many posters here.
They already brought solid facts about how your remark is not being accurate, besides your credibility and access to sales numbers.
Actually, it's not the first time you made such negativity rethoric. You also said this on another thread:

Absolutely.

It's an unfortunate truth many on gaming forums have yet to realise and is one of the many reasons why Western AAA GaaS titles (outside of sports, racing, casual/family) are not really coming to the system. The third party games that do sell well on Switch are Indies, niche AA games, ports, Japanese games and IP that utilises the USP's of the Switch or have a collab with Nintendo in some way.

Things take time and we'll see more games come in the future. But thinking that every big game will come to Switch is just unrealistic.
Like this thread, also generated controversy.
 
Nov 2, 2017
8,059
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Would be cool to know Crash Bandicoot sales. If it outsold Mario Tennis Aces on Switch then we surely talk about nice performance. I guess at least 30K but really, could be anytihng more than that.
Zhuge said more than DK but not by much, add the same copies from Xbox and we have a good guess.
 
Nov 8, 2017
3,643
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30
You made a backpedalling after your strawmen was shot down by many posters here.
They already brought solid facts about how your remaker not being accurate, besides your credibility and access to sales numbers.
Actually, it's not the first time you made such negativity rethoric. You also said this on another thread:
As someone who did argue against Zhuge in this thread I do have to disagree with you. I see fully where he is coming from. Perhaps he didn't articulate it as well as he could have but when do any of us articulate all that well.

The quote you posted from him is also true as well. We are not getting many if any AAA multiplats. Where's CoD for example? That's an obvious one.

He also goes on to say that the situation should improve but we can't expect every AAA multiplat to come to the Switch and I think most of us have accepted that.
 
As someone who did argue against Zhuge in this thread I do have to disagree with you. I see fully where he is coming from. Perhaps he didn't articulate it as well as he could have but when do any of us articulate all that well.

The quote you posted from him is also true as well. We are not getting many if any AAA multiplats. Where's CoD for example? That's an obvious one.

He also goes on to say that the situation should improve but we can't expect every AAA multiplat to come to the Switch and I think most of us have accepted that.
No he didn't. He said AAA titles aren't selling on Switch, when in fact, the few ones who came out actually had satisfactory results which pleased the pubs who invested on it. Yes, they don't have PS4/XBO numbers, but it's far from "not selling", which he implied. Hence why the reaction when he said that, and now here on this thread.
Yeah, it's true that not every AAA will come to Switch, but this isn't a valid argument to undermine the ones who performed well.
 
May 12, 2018
511
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Digital rate on Switch should still be much lower than Xbox.
Well yeah. There are more Xbox in general out there. But digital sales for indies on Switch has been really high, and mascots like Sonic always performed better on Nintendo hardware, despite hardware sales. Like Sonic and Sega ASRT, on Wii U outselling 360 and PS3 despite Wii U just launching.

So the same wouldn't apply to every scenario.
 
Oct 27, 2017
145
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I'm conscious GfK data is pretty much not worth looking at given lack of digital sales, but I'd be surprised if it gets anywhere near Crew 1's opening with digital.
I'm pretty surprised you'd say that as an analyst, the numbers must be pretty meaningful for retail, and that will be a large reason why the data is collected in the first place. Much like old Gallup music charts. Though hopefully game charts won't become as useless as music ones are currently should they start fudging in other sources (hours played anyone?).
 
Nov 2, 2017
8,059
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Well yeah. There are more Xbox in general out there. But digital sales for indies on Switch has been really high, and mascots like Sonic always performed better on Nintendo hardware, despite hardware sales. Like Sonic and Sega ASRT, on Wii U outselling 360 and PS3 despite Wii U just launching.

So the same wouldn't apply to every scenario.
It’s not even about having more consoles sold, Nintendo in general have a much lower digital share compared to the other two.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,465
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Like this thread, also generated controversy.

It generates controversy because some people are delusional, honestly.

There's really no amount of evidence or logic you can show to Nintendo fans that will make them realize AAA third party support isn't going to happen and for good reasons.
 
Oct 31, 2017
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man you don't have a clue about what you're saying, huh?

either it's that or you're being intentionally disingenuos

Skyrim was declared a success by Bethesda when it passed the 200.000 unit mark on Switch, for example. I know precisely what I'm talking about and what are the expectations of third party developers for the platform.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,465
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It lost to a Console with a userbase over 4 times as large. If I'm looking at this regarding potential sales then if xbox and switch had an equal userbase, Switch would have thrashed the xbox.

Do you realize all this is completely irrelevant when we're talking about less than 25.000 units overall? The split between the two consoles is 250 units. We're literally talking about hot air.

The subject here is: why aren't AAA games with budgets that frequently break the 30-40 million dollar mark coming to the Switch? "But this budget-priced one year old port of a remaster almost beat the XBox One version with 12.000 units sold, third party games are totally viable on Switch!" is not a valid answer.

It's like people refuse to think about the numbers behind the chart. Do you know how much revenue 12.000 units sold generate for Nintendo and Activision? Activision two months from now is going to look at numbers and see Crash sold millions on PS4 and probably less than 500.000 on Switch worldwide and that is going to inform their strategy for the platform.

And during that meeting nobody is going to say "But if you released Crash at the same time on Switch! And keep in mind the userbase is much smaller!". Nobody is going to say "Is it really fair to compare PS4 sales and Switch sales considering all this? Stop thinking about the money, we need to be just!".

This entire conversation is bizzarre. We should be discussing business, not cheerleading for companies.
 
Oct 25, 2017
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Skyrim was declared a success by Bethesda when it passed the 200.000 unit mark on Switch, for example. I know precisely what I'm talking about and what are the expectations of third party developers for the platform.
Skyrim originally came out in 2011. Of course it passing 200k copies was a success.

I'm not arguing that Switch will get as much support as PS4/Xbox One get from third parties, of course it won't, but using that as an example doesn't really make any sense. Having a late port do well just shows that there's a possibility that it would do better releasing the same day.

That's how it (slowly) evolved on PC, for example. First there were late ports, then day 1 releases.

Activision two months from now is going to look at numbers and see Crash sold millions on PS4 and probably less than 500.000 on Switch worldwide and that is going to inform their strategy for the platform.
That's.. That's not how this works.
 
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Kilrogg

Resettlement Advisor
Member
Oct 25, 2017
882
0
Japanese pop-culture is pretty big in France.
To specify, it's not some recent thing either. It's been snow-balling since the 80s and only got bigger once stuff like Dragon Ball (which, btw, is absolutely huge and still relevant today, even more so than in the US) hit the market. We've got pretty much the single biggest Japanese pop culture convention in the world in the form of Japan Expo. It's so big that Japan sometimes talks about it on the news lol.

We're hugely receptive to anything that even vaguely smells like it's from Japan haha.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,558
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Tbilisi, Georgia
Activision two months from now is going to look at numbers and see Crash sold millions on PS4 and probably less than 500.000 on Switch worldwide and that is going to inform their strategy for the platfor
I think they are gonna inform their strategy based on how the Switch sales have stacked up with Xbox One and PC sales, which Switch version is not unlikely to beat.

Unless you want to tell me that they are going to conclude that their colorful platformers are only worth releasing on PS4 and keep them exclusive from this point forward.
So much fanboy delusion in this thread
Combined EU digital+retail chart will make some people cry
Could you please elaborate?
 
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Oct 31, 2017
3,465
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Skyrim originally came out in 2011. Of course it passing 200k copies was a success.

I'm not arguing that Switch will get as much support as PS4/Xbox One get from third parties, of course it won't, but using that as an example doesn't really make any sense. Having a late port do well just shows that there's a possibility that it would do better releasing the same day.

That's how it (slowly) evolved on PC, for example. First there were late ports, then day 1 releases.

Look, try to distance yourself a second from the issue.

The things we use as "excuses" for Switch versions (small userbase, older tech forcing late ports, requiring substantial extra dev time if the port is meant to be any good - see Wolfenstein) become reasons for not risking money once you look at it from a business side.

"It can't sell as well as the PS4 version, of course!" is a solid point in a discussion between game fans.

"It's not going to sell as well as it would on PS4" is also a solid argument for making business decisions.


What I'm trying to saying is that while here we play at what ifs and say "Have you really tried putting money in first and develop the Switch version along the others and sell it at the same time?" the people who actually make these decisions are legitimate to answer "No I'm fine fam this business is already shaky enough and we'll just put the games on the three platforms that have a 150 million+ userbase and that don't require extra dev costs because we ain't playing here, this isn't monopoly money".

I'm a business man and I'm reasoning as a business man, so maybe I'm a bit dry, but the problem is this. Could AAA third party game do well on Switch? Maybe, but I definitely wouldn't be the one to try. What's the point? What's the reward? I can develop the game for the other platforms and pretty much be guaranteed bigger sales.

This should be such an easy concept to grasp if people could detach themselves a bit from their allegiances.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,465
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I think they are gonna inform their strategy based on how the Switch sales have stacked up with Xbox One and PC sales, which Switch version is not unlikely to beat.

Unless you want to tell me that they are going to conclude that their colorful platformers are only worth releasing on PS4 and keep them exclusive from this point forward.

And they will think "we got some money from this inexpensive cash in, which is fine, but at 100.000 units sold first week in Europe, we ain't going to take any cues for our AAA strategy from this".

It's not about the placement on charts. It's about the numbers.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,558
0
Tbilisi, Georgia
Look, try to distance yourself a second from the issue.

The things we use as "excuses" for Switch versions (small userbase, older tech forcing late ports, requiring substantial extra dev time if the port is meant to be any good - see Wolfenstein) become reasons for not risking money once you look at it from a business side.

"It can't sell as well as the PS4 version, of course!" is a solid point in a discussion between game fans.

"It's not going to sell as well as it would on PS4" is also a solid argument for making business decisions.


What I'm trying to saying is that while here we play at what ifs and say "Have you really tried putting money in first and develop the Switch version along the others and sell it at the same time?" the people who actually make these decisions are legitimate to answer "No I'm fine fam this business is already shaky enough and we'll just put the games on the three platforms that have a 150 million+ userbase and that don't require extra dev costs because we ain't playing here, this isn't monopoly money".

I'm a business man and I'm reasoning as a business man, so maybe I'm a bit dry, but the problem is this. Could AAA third party game do well on Switch? Maybe, but I definitely wouldn't be the one to try. What's the point? What's the reward? I can develop the game for the other platforms and pretty much be guaranteed bigger sales.

This should be such an easy concept to grasp if people could detach themselves a bit from their allegiances.
I think I'd inform myself based on the following:

"Did this Crash port on Switch sell as well or better in comparison to other multiplatform versions it released alongside with?"
"Did Skyrim perform in line with Special Edition releases on Xbox One and PS4 that we released back in 2016?"

If the answer is positive I commit to more releases of the same nature.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,465
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I think I'd inform myself based on the following:

"Did this Crash port on Switch sell as well or better in comparison to other multiplatform versions it released alongside with?"
"Did Skyrim perform in line with Special Edition releases on Xbox One and PS4 that we released back in 2016?"

If the answer is positive I commit to more releases of the same nature.

I don't think anybody is discussing the opportunity of having PS1 remasters on Switch. Indies are doing great on Switch and it doesn't take a genius to see why - feature parity plus portability, favourable release window, equal prices, less competition on the platform.

The question was the usual "AAA third party games on Nintendo platforms".


We're gonna see Spiro on Switch. I have zero doubts about it. We're probably not going to see Resident Evil 2: REmake, and if we do it's going to take a good year after the other versions. That's where the problem lies, and there's no solution because developers and publishers are being business-smart in approaching the Switch this way.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,558
0
Tbilisi, Georgia
And they will think "we got some money from this inexpensive cash in, which is fine, but at 100.000 units sold first week in Europe, we ain't going to take any cues for our AAA strategy from this".

It's not about the placement on charts. It's about the numbers.
Or "hey it seems Switch audience is as receptive to Crash as any other platform, maybe better than all the non-PS ones. Should include it into our list of multiplatform releases for the brand new Crash game Vicarious is doing".

Becaue if it's performance isn't enticing enough than might as well throw away Xbox and PC and keep Crash as PS exclusive forever.

EDIT: Wait, if you weren't even disputing the viability of Crash and Spyro games on Switch than this whole line discussion was pretty pointless on my part.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,465
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Or "hey it seems Switch audience is as receptive to Crash as any other platform, maybe better than all the non-PS ones. Should include it into our list of multiplatform releases for the brand new Crash game Vicarious is doing".

Becaue if it's performance isn't enticing enough than might as well throw away Xbox and PC as well and keep Crash as PS exclusive forever.

I think in this very specific case we could see something like that happening, but I also think there's a lot of better evidence than this incredibly limp performance by an old port for putting the game on Switch. It's a choice that makes sense, and it made sense BEFORE we got these numbers. It makes sense DESPITE these numbers.
 
Oct 25, 2017
789
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Look, try to distance yourself a second from the issue.

The things we use as "excuses" for Switch versions (small userbase, older tech forcing late ports, requiring substantial extra dev time if the port is meant to be any good - see Wolfenstein) become reasons for not risking money once you look at it from a business side.

"It can't sell as well as the PS4 version, of course!" is a solid point in a discussion between game fans.

"It's not going to sell as well as it would on PS4" is also a solid argument for making business decisions.


What I'm trying to saying is that while here we play at what ifs and say "Have you really tried putting money in first and develop the Switch version along the others and sell it at the same time?" the people who actually make these decisions are legitimate to answer "No I'm fine fam this business is already shaky enough and we'll just put the games on the three platforms that have a 150 million+ userbase and that don't require extra dev costs because we ain't playing here, this isn't monopoly money".

I'm a business man and I'm reasoning as a business man, so maybe I'm a bit dry, but the problem is this. Could AAA third party game do well on Switch? Maybe, but I definitely wouldn't be the one to try. What's the point? What's the reward? I can develop the game for the other platforms and pretty much be guaranteed bigger sales.

This should be such an easy concept to grasp if people could detach themselves a bit from their allegiances.
lol i'm chill dude, i just think you're not making a good point here, as proved tons of times in the industry. More plataforms equals more sales, generally speaking, and having it on release day on all of said platforms also equals in more sales.

You don't have to be a revolutionary or out of common business man to see that, as shown by a lot of publishers in a lot of cases. It's that simple.

I do agree that doesn't mean that we'll got a lot of AAA games or that Skyrim doing well means that Elder Scrolls VI is day one on the Switch, i don't think it will. I just don't believe your point really adds up in a lot of cases.
 
Oct 28, 2017
4,558
0
Tbilisi, Georgia
I think in this very specific case we could see something like that happening, but I also think there's a lot of better evidence than this incredibly limp performance by an old port for putting the game on Switch. It's a choice that makes sense, and it made sense BEFORE we got these numbers. It makes sense DESPITE these numbers.
Just out of interest, how much do you expect this port to sell on Switch worldwide?

I really don't think it's LTD is gonna be "limp" after everything is said and done. Maybe compared to the PS4 version, but not the others.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,465
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Just out of interest, how much do you expect this port to sell on Switch worldwide?

I really don't think it's LTD is gonna be "limp" after everything is said and done. Maybe compared to the PS4 version, but not the others.

Lifetime? I would expect something between 500.000 and 750.000. Maybe it's a bit generous but Crash has shown incredible legs on PS4. A lot depends on how it performs in the US. AFAIK there's no japanese version coming (for now) and that's going to hurt a lot on Switch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,902
0
Right, someone enlighten me. I really didn't like the OG Crash when it first released. Was it just me being spoiled by Rare or is there a good game there? Is 2 and 3 better than 1? Should I buy this game? Still erring on the side of no as it is likely I still won't enjoy it but interested to see if someone can change my mind.
 
Oct 26, 2017
4,884
0
Right, someone enlighten me. I really didn't like the OG Crash when it first released. Was it just me being spoiled by Rare or is there a good game there? Is 2 and 3 better than 1? Should I buy this game? Still erring on the side of no as it is likely I still won't enjoy it but interested to see if someone can change my mind.
Crash 1 is an abomination of bad game design. Way too long cycles and near pixel perfect platforming with a fixed and distant camera leads to just a horribly unfun experience.

Naughty Dog learned from Crash 1 though. Crash 2 shortened the cycles and reduced some of the needed super precision and made the camera slightly better, but they only made real and good 3D platforming mechanics by Crash 3 and Crash 3 has a lot of vehicle sections which people are split on (I liked them a lot other than the motorcycle though).

So basically

Crash 3 >> Crash 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Crash 1

The first game really just really like a miserable experiment to bring DKC into 3D without considering any of the challenges of 3D and the later games are Naughty Dog understanding how 3D works.
 
Oct 25, 2017
859
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Lifetime? I would expect something between 500.000 and 750.000. Maybe it's a bit generous but Crash has shown incredible legs on PS4. A lot depends on how it performs in the US. AFAIK there's no japanese version coming (for now) and that's going to hurt a lot on Switch.
You are entirely incorrect about the Japanese version hurting Switch sales considerably because Crash is a non-event in Japan.
.... Crash sold like 30K at launch last year on the PS4 in Japan, pretty sure Japan is like the least important market for the game. It's not going to do much better on the Switch because Japanese don't care about Crash and don't have the same level of nostalgia we've seen in the west.
So I very much doubt the 50K or so it could potentially sell on the Switch in Japan is going to make a big impact compared to what it wil sell in the West.
 
Oct 31, 2017
3,465
0
You are entirely incorrect about the Japanese version hurting Switch sales considerably because Crash is a non-event in Japan.
.... Crash sold like 30K at launch last year on the PS4 in Japan, pretty sure Japan is like the least important market for the game. It's not going to do much better on the Switch because Japanese don't care about Crash and don't have the same level of nostalgia we've seen in the west.
So I very much doubt the 50K or so it could potentially sell on the Switch in Japan is going to make a big impact compared to what it wil sell in the West.
Considering the game is probably going to sell less than a million worldwide, even 50-75.000 units would be a good share.
 
OP
OP
Bruno MB
Oct 25, 2017
395
0
I think in this very specific case we could see something like that happening, but I also think there's a lot of better evidence than this incredibly limp performance by an old port for putting the game on Switch. It's a choice that makes sense, and it made sense BEFORE we got these numbers. It makes sense DESPITE these numbers.
You couldn't have chosen a more misguided adjective to measure the performance of Crash Bandicoot N. Sane Trilogy on Nintendo Switch.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,902
0
Crash 1 is an abomination of bad game design. Way too long cycles and near pixel perfect platforming with a fixed and distant camera leads to just a horribly unfun experience.

Naughty Dog learned from Crash 1 though. Crash 2 shortened the cycles and reduced some of the needed super precision and made the camera slightly better, but they only made real and good 3D platforming mechanics by Crash 3 and Crash 3 has a lot of vehicle sections which people are split on (I liked them a lot other than the motorcycle though).

So basically

Crash 3 >> Crash 2 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Crash 1

The first game really just really like a miserable experiment to bring DKC into 3D without considering any of the challenges of 3D and the later games are Naughty Dog understanding how 3D works.
Ok, I might give it a shot in that case. Thanks for the summary, that was pretty much my memory of crash 1. I just didn't find it fun.
 

cw_sasuke

Banned
Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,625
0
Less than 20.000 isn't limp?
Why are you acting like these are lifetime sales for that version and not first week retail only numbers ?
Your lack of perspective is impressive tbh.

Then again you seem convinced to proof a point so....whatever it takes i guess.