Agreed. It's taken quite the beating online. I quickly figured out this game wasn't for me. The more savvy buyers will likely be turned away after much of this negative wom
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PAL Charts - Week 43, 2017
- Thread starter Bruno MB
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Agreed. It's taken quite the beating online. I quickly figured out this game wasn't for me. The more savvy buyers will likely be turned away after much of this negative wom
Amazon reviews... well let's see Forza 7 for example... looks to be in line with GTS reviews.
Forza 7 has bad eWOM too?
What about Project Cars 2? XB1 version close to GTS and Forza 7... PS4 a bit better... has it bad eWOM too?
Yeap Japan has a big drop but which game/franchise didn't have this big drop in Japan this gen? It is basically the gen of half or less userbase compared with previous gens... software will take a hit for sure... PS4 is selling extremely well in Japan but compared with previous gens looks like a looser.
Now let't see the real deal here... GT5 is the second best GT selling game and it is not the first because GT3 was bundled with all PS2 sold during a holiday in US... the difference between sales of GT5 and GT3 are these US bundles... without them GT5 should be king.
People thought GT franchise is dead after GT6 and now GTS is pulling numbers way ahead GT6 (except of course Japan) and it is tracking to close the 10 million dream... you can expect big numbers even compared with others GT games.
But you say the eWOM is destroying it but you can't show this eWOM because it is possible something only you see.
It is like the campaign hate from reviews... it is basically the same events put in a new/different way... if you play all events you will say it has close to the same events found in GT6... maybe a big less but the campaign you played in previous GTs is there like before just now the menu is in a different way to choose the events.
The lack of content is true... 160ish cars, 17 tracks but that is what you get today with the new GAAS model... PD choose to publish at extreme the base of GTS delivering to notch driving physics, visuals, sound and online experience to late progressively add content and more content... it is a choice in a world where gamers request more and more new content, new DLCs, new support in a GAAS model.
Let't see how this "eWOM" affect the game after all.
If that negative WOM really exists to begin with... I remember the Destiny and it "bad WOM" that ended being a huge hit.
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Yes to all questions. On Metacritic, Gran Turismo Sport has an average score of 6.2 out of 10 among users. On Amazon Japan, for example, the game has 2.5 stars out of 5.
We are talking about a drop in sales of about 65%, first week speaking. This is not the typical drop in sales during current generation versus past generation. Also, companies are not evaluating budgets by looking at sales in relative terms.
When GT5 launched, PS3 had 5.6m units in Japan. When GTS launched, PS4 had 5.3m units in Japan. Hardware sales were totally comparable.
GT5 was also heavily bundled.
The fact that Sony tainted the GT franchise with GT6 through a wrong release period is Sony's fault. GTS is performing bad, and PD should understand how to go from this entry onwards.
Now we reached the Metacritic user score level.
Just look how many 0 these Metacritic/Amazon users scores has... do you think it is really right?
Big franchises in Japan had over 50% drop in sales from last gen to this gen. Why and how it is another discussion but that happened and it is not exclusive to GTS.
I think you didn't understand the bundles comparison here.
GT3 had over 4 million bundles sold in one single period of 2 months in US because every PS2 in that November/December was bundled with GT3.
GT5 sold a bit over 2.5m million units in US with that "heavily" bundle plus game box sales.
See? GT3 sold over 7 million in US because these 4 million bundles.
I agree with GT6 bad release time but I disagree with the GTS part...
PD probably delivered the best Gran Turismo ever created... they finally found the level of quality this franchise deserved.
They have absolutely assurance of how to envolve and recreate the franchise and luckily they where successfull.
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Of course. It was expected to sell very good in the beginning. Wom spreads not so fast and the numbers include bundles, too.
GTS will have to prove its concept as something working for the general audience in the coming months and perhaps years, not in terms of sales for two weeks.
That is how GAAS games works, no? I mean it support more sales thought lifetime than usual models.
I mean, it doesn't matter. Consumers use heuristic cues during product search and adoption. The most common and used heuristic cue, according to many researchers, is the star rating (or the average score). If user reviews are low, eWOM is negative/mediocre and this might affect sales. You can see, for example, Chevalier, J. A. and Mayzlin, D. (2006). The effect of word of mouth on sales: Online book reviews. Journal of Marketing Research, 43(3):345–354. (but there are plenty of studies showing that).
And this means that, if the installed base was constant across generation (as in this example), those franchises were mismanaged. See, for example, Final Fantasy XV, or Minna no Golf. Many franchises stayed constant (Animal Crossing), grew (Persona, Dark Souls) or didn't drop as much as GT.
GTS saw a huge drop with basically constant installed base.
So what? Also, source?
GTS marketing was not that good as they weren't able to convey the message of the game actually is.
Do you have any suggestions on what they should do differently to keep the same sales for those franchises?
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Support depends on success in the end. You are expecting close to 10 million sales but do you really believe all of these people are playing the game day by day, trying to become a better driver and wait several minutes to play the game as intended per race?
I don't say GTS is a bad game but the way its built has limited mass appeal, in my opinion.
I've expressed my take on GT several times before. GT6 should have not happened as it happened. Either one year earlier on PS3 and then ready for PS4 launch (but there was Driveclub at that time); or GTS happening instead of GT6, and then GT6 in 2016 on PS4.
Then, there are many ways to prevent franchises from dying or dropping. For example, Minna no Golf: the last proper home console episode was released in 2007; PS3 also got a porting of the PSV entry in 2013. Then a 4-year hiatus. This likely affected franchise sales.
Fair enough, but you think that GT would still be a 10 million seller if they just released it at a different time? Forza has also been declining eventhough they have released games more frequently. Project Cars 2 also saw a decline. Other franchises that have seen more steady releases have also seen declines. What do you think is the reason for this?
There arent many franchises in Japan (that ethomaz mention) that havnt dropped compared to the previous generation. This cant all be just to simple mismanaging?
Yes.
Of course, GTS as a late PS3 release would have reached about 4-5m, but a new, shiny, GT6 for PS4 would have not had problems in selling on par with other mainline entries, especially considering the fact that PS4 is hugely successful. You cannot compare GT with franchises like Forza and Project Cars as, for one reason or the other, they don't have the status and reputation GT has in the genre.
Some drops are due to the fact that console sales dropped (DS->3DS transition saw many huge drops, quite expected given the fact that 3DS is a less successful console overall and DS tapped a whole new market). Some drops are due to mismanagement, especially Sony franchises (after all, Sony has shown how it doesn't care much about the internal market). Some drops are due because of external competition, like puzzle games, now available on mobile for free.
Fair enough. Personally, i dont think so. I think the interest for those games have declined, and even if they made the "world's best game", i still think it would seen a decline.
We dont need to compare Forza and Project Cars to Gran Turismo. The thing is that both those franchises (Forza and Project Cars) have also seen decline in sales. In other words, these series used to be more popular, and why do you think the popularity has declined there as well?
Exactly, there are indeed more factors than just mismanagement, and factors that basically are out of hands from the developers/publishers. Maybe i misunderstood you earlier, but i read it as you said that mismanagement was basically the only reason for the declines for these franchises, and that if they simply had done something differently (making it sound quite easy), the sales would have still been just as strong as before.
Project Cars didn't have much consumer patronization to begin with: very recent IP, busy period, small company (hence small marketing budget). Forza is at its 7th entry in 12 years + 3 spin-offs; it became a yearly series so franchise fatigue kicked in. Also, Horizon 3 did well if I remember correctly. But the racing genre was losing some steam during previous generation as well---nevertheless, GT5 was able to sell >10m units.
Yes, I think that mismanagement is the main reason because those franchises I mentioned lost sales across entries, including GT.
Yes, I think that mismanagement is the main reason because those franchises I mentioned lost sales across entries, including GT.
But does that mean that those franchises were mismanaged as well? I mean, Microsoft could have released the games less frequently if fatigue is the reason for the decline. Project Cars is published by Bandai Namco, its not a small company, but here they could have released it in a less busy period and increased the marketing budget.
Yeah, Forza Horizon 3 did very well. It was also bundled for quite some time (maybe it still is), so that is one reason why it keeps selling.
I agree that there is always some things that could be done differently, but its quite easy to look at those things in hindsight. I also think that many people who played these franchises many years ago arent interested any longer, so theres not much that can be done about that (people might have quit gaming, are satisfied with playing on mobile/tablet etc.).
Yes, they were mismanaged in my opinion. Too frequent releases leads to franchise fatigue. Too small marketing budget and inadequate release window also affect sales. These were surely factors that impacted Forza and Project Cars. Hard to say that the racing genre was affected by mobile gaming as there are not valuable and popular racing games on iOS/Android. Also, again, those franchises don't have the status and reputation GT has. GT has been a consistent >10m across 5 entries, 3 generations, 15 years.
If Sony didn't see GT6 performing badly and leading to possible franchise disaffection then they should hire better analysts, lol. I think there are also some dynamics with PD that we are not aware of. For example, if PD does have much freedom in developing and deciding release schedule, then Sony cannot do much. But I think GTS was something pushed from the upper management.
If Sony didn't see GT6 performing badly and leading to possible franchise disaffection then they should hire better analysts, lol. I think there are also some dynamics with PD that we are not aware of. For example, if PD does have much freedom in developing and deciding release schedule, then Sony cannot do much. But I think GTS was something pushed from the upper management.
Well, basically every decline in sales can be described as mismanagement in that case, because looking a things in hindsight, we can see what went wrong and take guesses on what could be done differently, likely resulting in better sales. There is some truth to that, but i think in several cases, i think its too easy to say those things in hindsight. Makes it sound like there was easy to see how things could be done differently even back then, in my opinion.
Yeah, i dont think that theres much of a replacement for car sims on mobile, so those who still crave that wont find that on mobile. Its more about that many people dont crave those things as they did before. Do you still enjoy all the same games/genres as you did before? Personally, i used to play many RTS games (Command & Conquer, Warcraft, Warhammer etc.), but now its probably been like 8-10 years since i've last played a RTS game. Mobile gaming is also the main reason for why dedicated systems have seen a decline in sales. GT5 was also released before mobile gaming took of (as we know it today).
I'm pretty sure they saw that, why do say that? Just wondering. They just needed to look at the sales numbers to figure that out.
I agree that GT6 might have done better if it was released at a different time. But the developement probably started after GT5 was released (late 2010). At this stage, the PS4 probably still just on paper. GT6 was also released about 3 months before the release of the PS4 in Japan, still GT6 saw a big decline from GT5.
I just dont think think mismanagement is the only reason for the decline, in the sense that it was easy for them to see what they could have done differently. I think general decrease in popularity is also a bigger reason. I dont think racing sims can substain ~10 million sellers in today's market.
Which reviews or opinions should be considered instead? Which will be most important for millions of potential customers?
Not at all. Some declines were due to external circumstances that were totally out of control of the software house. For example, puzzle/training games on console, following the rise of cheaper substitutes on mobile devices and digital channels. High-quality and well-positioned franchises couldn't compete with similar products sold at a much lower price. There was a shock in consumer preferences which couldn't be controlled. Or think about the drop between Pokémon RGB and Pokémon GS (around 2 million units), which was physiological given how much the former sold---numbers that couldn't have been replicated any under circumstance. Sometimes declines occur because the franchise itself loses popularity, without the software house being able to do anything. Think about the Run for Money series by Namco Bandai on 3DS. It sold incredibly well on the wave of the TV show but when the TV show started to become less popular, the series start to lose sales. This was totally outside the control of Namco Bandai, which in fact managed well the franchise with regular entries and increasing quality across them.
Yes.
The point is that, Gran Turismo survived with huge sales across 15 years, 3 generations and 5 mainline entries (and plenty of demos, spin-offs and such) showing that userbase was faithful and wasn't tired of the formula. You don't lose 6m units across the board for external reason/consumer shocks only.
Racing sims can't sustain 10m sales in today's market strictly because Sony wasn't able to manage the GT franchise well enough.
Yes, a lot. It has been shown by several studies that user reviews affect both product adoption and rating attitude. Star ratings and average user score are used as heuristic cues during search and valuation in augmenting the information set.
Then they could just have released the games on mobile instead. They didnt have to release those games on consoles. Or make sure that people were still interested in Run For Money. The interest was there at some time, the same goes for Pokemon at those levels, so technically we can argue that things could be done differently to maintain that, and that ties into maintaining something. I think this is a lot easier said than done however, so i wouldnt expect everyone to be able to be able to pull something like this off, and i agree that these are reasons that are valid. But what you say in this quote is a key to my argument:
This also applies to gaming franchises as well. I mentioned earlier that even if Polyphony Digital had made "the world's greatest racing sim", i still think there would be a decline. To me, it seems that you think that GT is immune to these reasons, and what is the reason for that? If Pokemon can drop in sales just because "sales couldnt be replicated", this is something that can happen to any franchise.
I guess i should added "as much". I can still enjoy RTS, but my interest is lower now. You never felt the lack/decrease i interest in something gaming related?
But regardless, my point was just that many people have moved over to gaming pretty much exclusively on mobile platforms instead, and this means less potential consumers. GT is/was a more casual game (appealed to everyone), so games like this can easily be affected by this change in the market. This is also the main reason why dedicated gaming hardware have declined over the years as well.
Sure, i've never ment to say that this is the only reason. I agree that there could be done things differently that might have lead to better sales. GT Sports being online focused is also an gamble for the sales. Its not only because the lack of popularity, i fully agree. My main point is just that lack of interest can also also be one of the bigger reasons. Things changes as time goes by. How things were 10 years ago, or even 5 years ago, this doesnt necessarily apply today.
I disagree. GT6 was a "traditional" GT game, and not limited by design, as far as i know. I cant see that the only reason for why GT6 sold much less than GT5 is because it was released at the launch of the PS4. Those people still had a PS3 at the time, and it shows that they werent faithful to the serie. And as mentioned, GT6 still saw a big decline in Japan despite PS4 not coming out before months later.
I do however believe that GT6 could have seen higher sales if being released earlier, but i still believe that a noticeably drop would have been there without heavy bundling. Its the same with GT Sports. Sony can start bundling the game heavily to achieve higher sales numbers, but the days where you basically have 10 million people interested in the GT franchise and want to buy the game seperately, i'm pretty sure those days are over, at least for the time being.
EDIT: I added some text.
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That is sad. I would hope a new hyped Mario woul outsell a collection.
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Highly Unlikely on a Machine that only had 300k machines sold in the UK.
It's Nintendo's 6th highest launch ever in the region, on a system that just sold 300k and it will obviously continue to sell well. There's nothing sad about it.
Obviously GTS could of done better. There's definitely a subset of fans that would of bought it if it was a more inclusive game, though it still wouldn't reach the heights of GT5 at launch. 270k just seems insane looking at what PS4 software titles have done.
UK console game sales now 30 - 45% digital
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-11-02-the-uk-console-game-sales-now-30-45-percent-digital
Cant make a thread. So if anyone wants. :)
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/2017-11-02-the-uk-console-game-sales-now-30-45-percent-digital
Cant make a thread. So if anyone wants. :)
Hahaha yep, always amazed to see posts saying "it's 59.99 digital but 39.99 in stores, so digital sales should be mĂnimum".
Anyway, does Chart-track track any digital sales? (for paying members maybe?)
Spain, October top 10
http://www.aevi.org.es/los-videojuegos-mas-vendidos-octubre-2017/
All:
1 - FIFA 18 (PS4)
2 - SUPER MARIO ODYSSEY (SWITCH)
3 - ASSASSIN'S CREED: ORIGINS (INCL. EXCLUSIVE ED.) (PS4)
4 - GRAN TURISMO SPORT EDICION LIMITADA (INCL. EXCLUSIVE ED.) (PS4)
5 - LA TIERRA MEDIA: SOMBRAS DE GUERRA (INCL. EXCLUSIVE ED.) (PS4)
6 - FIFA 18 LEGACY EDITION (PS3)
7 - FIFA 18 (XBOXONE)
8 - GRAND THEFT AUTO V (PS4)
9 - YO-KAI WATCH 2: MENTESPECTROS (NINTENDO 3DS)
10 - FIFA 18 (SWITCH)
More at the link.
http://www.aevi.org.es/los-videojuegos-mas-vendidos-octubre-2017/
All:
1 - FIFA 18 (PS4)
2 - SUPER MARIO ODYSSEY (SWITCH)
3 - ASSASSIN'S CREED: ORIGINS (INCL. EXCLUSIVE ED.) (PS4)
4 - GRAN TURISMO SPORT EDICION LIMITADA (INCL. EXCLUSIVE ED.) (PS4)
5 - LA TIERRA MEDIA: SOMBRAS DE GUERRA (INCL. EXCLUSIVE ED.) (PS4)
6 - FIFA 18 LEGACY EDITION (PS3)
7 - FIFA 18 (XBOXONE)
8 - GRAND THEFT AUTO V (PS4)
9 - YO-KAI WATCH 2: MENTESPECTROS (NINTENDO 3DS)
10 - FIFA 18 (SWITCH)
More at the link.
Spain:
Week 43, 2017 - All Formats (Units)
01 (NE) NSW Super Mario Odyssey - 55,000 / NEW
02 (NE) PS4 Assassin's Creed Origins - 34,000 / NEW (All platforms: 38,000)
03 (02) PS4 FIFA 18 - 13,000 / 350,000
04 (01) PS4 Gran Turismo Sport - 6,000 / 36,000
05 (NE) PC Destiny 2 - 3,000 / NEW
LTD Numbers:
Assassin's Creed IV: Black Flag - PS4: 70,000
Assassin's Creed Unity: Special Edition - PS4: 130,000
Spain:
Week 43, 2017 - All Formats (Units)
01 (NE) NSW Super Mario Odyssey - 55,000 / NEW
02 (NE) PS4 Assassin's Creed Origins - 34,000 / NEW (All platforms: 38,000)
03 (02) PS4 FIFA 18 - 13,000 / 350,000
04 (01) PS4 Gran Turismo Sport - 6,000 / 36,000
05 (NE) PC Destiny 2 - 3,000 / NEW
GT Sport not looking good, GT7 will define franchise future, those drops are insane.
FIFA and Mario on the other hand selling like hotcakes.
Spain:
Week 43, 2017 - All Formats (Units)
01 (NE) NSW Super Mario Odyssey - 55,000 / NEW
02 (NE) PS4 Assassin's Creed Origins - 34,000 / NEW (All platforms: 38,000)
03 (02) PS4 FIFA 18 - 13,000 / 350,000
04 (01) PS4 Gran Turismo Sport - 6,000 / 36,000
05 (NE) PC Destiny 2 - 3,000 / NEW
Thank you for these, can anyone tell us about crash sales figures?
Same source said 126.000 units sold until Week 34.
Hobby Consolas source said 111,768 until Week 37.
I don't have them.
It sold 75,494 units LTD until week 3 (Week 28, 2017). Closest sales to the launch that I have.
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Fifa PS3 > Fifa Xbox One, Fifa Switch in the top 10. I said wow!
Compare those Fifa PS3/One sales to the UK, where the PS3 version is below 3% of all sales, while Xbox One is like 30+% (?), i.e. 10:1 in favor of the One.
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