"I'm not a conservative but the left is to blame". Let me guess, you're not islamophobic but islam is to blame? You're not fooling anybody
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Palestinian Authority Bans All LGBT Activities in West Bank
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"I'm not a conservative but the left is to blame". Let me guess, you're not islamophobic but islam is to blame? You're not fooling anybody
Way to miss the point and deflect. Are you really trying to claim that religion doesn't have an LGBT issue?
User banned (permanent): Minimizing and defending the violent oppression of LGBT people
The world has diversity issues however your framing of those issues is telling. There's this myth that the middle east has been a "no gay zone" and that
yet there is no evidence of such systematic killing. If you have some, that is not pinkwashing by zionist propaganda then feel free to share it. Am I saying middle eastern countries are "lgbt friendly" or trying undermine and handwave away the real and often severe issues and challenges lgbt individuals are facing in the region? Don't be ridiculous but at the same time i'm not going to pretend there's some sort of anti-lgbt genocide occurring. What is occurring and is certifiable is the genocide and ethnic cleansing of a people based on their race no matter their gender/orientation. What's even more egregious is that lgbt marginalization is being used as political tool to justify said racism and genocide - just as the palestinian based lgbt organizations attest to.
What myth, being openly gay in SA can be a literal death sentence.
This is some deflection alright. Please identify in this thread where the PA's actions are being used to justify Israel's ethnic cleansing.
You mean that same SA that israel has proudly improved economic and political ties with and supports? That same SA that is a key US ally in the region? That SA? SA is also not the entire middle east but rather constantly in competition with israel to see who could outdo the other in terms of atrocities
Where did I say that I think that "the PA's actions are being used to justify Israel's ethnic cleansing" aka pinkwashing? Palestinian lgbt-rights activists and organizations are saying that. Your argument is therefore with them not me.
The way YOU are framing this is telling, diversity issues is some sort of bs understatement, being gay is literally against the law and punishable by death in numerous Islamic countries.
I wasn't the one bringing up Israel in this thread so your argument isn't with me, nor did I see anyone justifying ethnic cleansing.
Im sorry, but countries with their noses deep down in religion, these type of subjects and liberal thinking will never happen. As an atheist, I will never understand or respect religious countries if they can't respect each individuals value no matter (in this case) their sexual orientation is. It's fucking backwards thinking, has always been, will always be.
The discussion wasn't "What regional dictatorships is Israel buddies with". Homosexuality is punishable almost everywhere in MENA bar Jordan, Bahrain and Iraq.
This is some disingenuous shit. It's illegal to even be gay in over half of ME countries.
One day the Palestinians people wont have to suffer under an oppressive rule in the west bank, or in israel...one day...
It seems like no matter where they are right now, the Palestinians just trying to live their lives are the ones suffering the absolute most
It seems like no matter where they are right now, the Palestinians just trying to live their lives are the ones suffering the absolute most
the majority of the religous world outside the US is pretty fucked up, especially in the middle east, not that we're anywhere near perfect.
Our Muslim population is significantly less conservative for example, certainly more progressive then say white evangelicals.
Our Muslim population is significantly less conservative for example, certainly more progressive then say white evangelicals.
did we really expect Palestine to catch up with the rest of the world whilst being stuck in an oppressive hell hole
they haven't even had a chance to get going really
they haven't even had a chance to get going really
Unfortunate.
Although I hope there will be none in here who will cite this as a good enough reason to let Israel continue with their genocide.
Although I hope there will be none in here who will cite this as a good enough reason to let Israel continue with their genocide.
Religion turns people into shitty human beings devoid of empathy.
Yep. Instead of banning LGBT+ activity, we should just ban religion worldwide. Surprise, the world is suddenly a way better place!
I'm absolutely serious. Fuck religion and all the bad it has done to our world.
Well, proper viewpoint about matters such as these require investments in education, and communication with other culture.
It's hard to do that when you're facing genocidal attempt from a militaristic entity hell bent on erasing you from the world every single day.
I'm arab, and I live in the ME region. There is clear proof of recent increasing state sponsored action being taken against LGBT communities in Egypt, Lebanon, Palestine. Homosexuality is seen as a threat and an easy boogeyman for religious authority figures to point to as a scapegoat. And in the case of Lebanon, you even have Christians doing the same exact thing. We're not even going to address countries where committing homosexual acts is punishable by death. While I do not doubt there are ulterior motives in painting the PA as anti-LGBT, the reality is the entire region has a backward perspective on gay people.
I'm sorry but accepting people to be different is a matter of decency to me, not education.
I'm done making excuses for racists and bigots.
The Palestinian plight is an awful one. But actively deciding to enact oppressive and horrific rules doesn't get excused by being oppressed yourself.
This isn't something they've been compelled to do, they've chosen to do it. It's disgusting that people are actually trying to downplay this.
It isn't "unfortunate"... it is a disgrace
So what's the deal then with Brunei, the 5th richest country in the world, very recently implementing laws that allow for gay people to be stoned to death?
There are also other shitty laws being enforced there, including:
We are going to stone gay people to death because we need men to marry women!!
Are you saying that countries like Indonesia and Malaysia that cane and fine gay people don't invest in education?
The recent news about Saudi women being allowed to travel independently for the first time made me literally laugh. Like damn. It's the 21st fucking century and only now can these Saudi women travel by themselves without being accompanied by a man. Like how fucking medieval can one be...
I understand. Again, I am merely hoping that this is not enough excuse for anyone to allow the genocidal attempt being pulled against them to go unabated.
Speaking as a non binary lesbian, the LGBT folks in here going "welp fuck Palestine, I'm supporting Israel now" is fucking disgusting. Fuck all the LGBT people living in Palestine who are being oppressed on two fronts, I guess? "Israel can give them shelter to pwn those dirty muslims" Israel will fucking blackmail them into becoming informants and likely get them hurt/killed. Israel doesn't give a FUCK about Palestinian lives, LGBT or not. Palestine deserves freedom. Palestinian LGBT people deserve freedom. By supporting Israel, you are betraying them. Think about that.
Palestine is a Muslim population, therefore how is this not expected? This, alongside terrorism, doesn't excuse Palestinians rights to freedom.
Yeah, no one is excusing that. That ethnic cleansing is once again being done in the name of religion and religion is used to justify and support what Israel does to the Palestinians.
Like Kwigo said above, if religion were eradicated, the world would be a far better place.
This thread has been most enlightening. Many people don't know that LGBTQ rights are non-existent in a large part of the world, or that the 2 biggest religions in the world, worth 4 billion people forbid it in their holy texts. Most people are nowhere near woke.
Does this mean they should be oppressed? What about their children? Do they deserve it as well? Yeaaaaah, good luck making that moral case!
People need to travel more. That's my take.
Does this mean they should be oppressed? What about their children? Do they deserve it as well? Yeaaaaah, good luck making that moral case!
People need to travel more. That's my take.
Who is doing that? It is okay to say that Israel is a monstrous apartheid state, and that Palestine is enacting horrific and oppressive rules on some of their most vulnerable.
What's annoying is the posts that basically downplay how shitty this is by stating they're oppressed. No shit, does that make it okay to oppress others now?
Didn't realise you could only condemn one thing at once.
A tool and trap the PA fell into by their own doing . It's absurd to insinuate calling oppressors what they are is wrong even if they themselves are being oppressed. Don't even peddle that garbage. They should know better than anyone.
Yeah, it's really not hard to have a thought like, "wow, that guy is acting a real asshole", while also thinking, "whoa! Just cause I said they're acting like an asshole doesn't mean I think they deserve to get the shit kicked out of them."
Friendly reminder since it's overlooked page after page.
THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PACTS WITH THE OPPRESORS OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.
Let that sink in.
THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY PACTS WITH THE OPPRESORS OF THE PALESTINIAN PEOPLE.
Let that sink in.
yup, they're collaborators with the Israeli occupation and directly benefit from keeping it in place
And they're also not the only part where the homophobia is coming from, stop defending this.
And you know those are LGBT posters? Even though one seems to implicitly indicate he's not? Further, saying you have problems with the Palestine side isn't "Fuck Palestine, I support Israel now" as you do eloquently put it.
The first poster sure has a sketchy view of regretting supporting Palestine, the second doesn't move to support Israel but says he'd stand back from 100% supporting Palestine, which again isn't "Fuck them, I support Israel now" - The fact is, there are a LOT more people in this thread downplaying how shitty this is.
Again, what is wrong with condemning both of these horrible things?
It depresses me that so many people put fundamentalist religion over actual tangible LGBT realities. "Don't be so shocked though!" Fuck off with this patronising shit, we NEVER said that when Israel pushed for apartheid and the eradication of the Palestinian people and identity. This is just a bully victim deciding to bully even more vulnerable people than themselves, and I feel as though your attempts to portray a religious wannabe dictatorship as greater victims out of a hatred of Israel rather than a love of Palestinians is just dehumanising to our people. Fuck Israel AND Palestine. I still refuse to allow an identity to die, but I'm hardly enthusiastic about it when they want an even more vulnerable identity to die.
It's ok to want justice and peace for the palestinian people
and to condemn an organizations/people in power/government bodies that support this shit.
What is not ok is to
1. Blanket "well fuck palestine then" statements
2. "It's ok that some of them hate gay people, the important thing is fuck israel" statements.
Dunno why everything nowadays have to be such a one track only discussion. Political discussion especially has no nuance anymore. The moment you try to inject some in people on your side start blaming you for muddling shit up and being self defeating.
and to condemn an organizations/people in power/government bodies that support this shit.
What is not ok is to
1. Blanket "well fuck palestine then" statements
2. "It's ok that some of them hate gay people, the important thing is fuck israel" statements.
Dunno why everything nowadays have to be such a one track only discussion. Political discussion especially has no nuance anymore. The moment you try to inject some in people on your side start blaming you for muddling shit up and being self defeating.
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I agree with this so much. But I'm just so fucking ANGRY that they would do this to us. It's suicidally stupid too. Actively criminalising your allies is hardly a clever strategy when you're already on the brink of annihilation. Fuck, it's just painful. I wanna support them but they evidently don't want my support. Like, you can hardly blame people for losing interest in their cause when they give us a big fuck you. Where's the precedent? Were there LGBT terror attacks against Muslims in the country? Nope, there never was, as per usual.
Once again, the LGBT people lose and have to perpetually fight to justify their existence even towards those oppressed themselves, just as we always have and will continue to do so.
I'm condemning it. They are enemy of the Palestine people too.
I'm not goign to say "Well, fuck Palestine too" when the ones pushing for this are the same pacting with Israel.
Should we say "fuck everyone in the US" for Trump?
These shitheads deserve to lose everything they have.
Of course, then you'd have extremists whining about persecution.
"Boohoo, what about my right to be an irrational bigoted asshole who makes everyone's lives worse based on made up nonsense?"
Seriously though, this could actually lead to a nontrivial improvement in human rights around the world.
Of course, then you'd have extremists whining about persecution.
"Boohoo, what about my right to be an irrational bigoted asshole who makes everyone's lives worse based on made up nonsense?"
You are whatabouting. I never asked or expected you to say ''fuck Palestine'', I'm just really tired of LGBT rights coming with ifs or buts and what aboutisms when it comes to the religion. If you do proper research, you'd know where the homophobia and transphobia is coming from and how widespread it is.
It's not whataboutism when what's being pointed has everything to do with the problem discussed.
The thing is, in that region is not just LGBT rights. It's EVERYONE's rights. It's not like in the US where the "all lives matters" is bullshit, in this case the Palestine Authority is part of the bigger problem of the region, using the LGBT rights as hostage just as Israel (AKA The "beacon" of LGBT rights") blackmail LGBT palestine people for information. Is a place where Palestine people are killed just for being what they are, and the PA is making it worse for LGBT people.
I'm not acting like there aren't major LGBT problems in the Middle East. And they won't go away since there are major fundamentalists at play.This is an announcement made by the shithead Palestine Authority since it wasn't banned before.
Again, if Trumps does the same, it will have support in the US. He is part of that major problem. Now think that Trump pacts with people that kills and tortures for ethnic and geopolitical purposes. Who also extorsion the people he's banning for that very discrimination. Think about that.
Agreed, the Palestinian National Authority is bigoted. So is Israel. However, this ban accurately reflects the ideals the Palestinian people: who are by a vast majority composed of bigoted anti-gay Muslims. This statement is not stereotyping. This is not Islamophobia. This should be an freely voiced progressive position. Anyone who values civil rights should view socially conservative Muslims in the same light as a Republican from Alabama. They are statistically evangelical southern baptists on crack.
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