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Paradox removed Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines 2 from EGS until the end of Epic Mega Sale

benzopil

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,968
Russian source with Epic's comment

If the developer or publisher decides not to participate in our sale, we respect this decision.

Paradox decided to abandon Epic Mega Sale.

If players bought Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2 at a discount, Epic will not charge you extra money.
From Sergey Galyonkin himself (in comments):

1. Anyone who managed to buy the game at a discount - will receive it at a discount.
2. The game will return to the store.
3. We fully compensate the discount to the publisher, they do not lose money.
4. The publisher was informed in advance about the sale mechanism and was aware of its conditions.
UPD:

Okay, regarding point 4.

I was sure that Paradox was aware of the sale mechanism. After a little investigation, it turned out that I was wrong.
 
Last edited:

cw_sasuke

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,380
lol.

...but why? Doesn't it make no difference to them?
No, since Epic is compensating publishers and they all knew about the conditions ahead of the sale.
Wait the developer still gets the amount they usually would if it’s full priced right? So why back out
They might worry about the price perception for the title down the line - when comparing the current sale with what it will likely cost on consoles on day 1. We have often people that refuse to pay full price for a game if it was much cheaper everywhere else before.
 

TheGreenArrow

lmayo
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,929
Epic devalued the game by putting it on sale way before its even released. So I get it. Sucks for people that wanted to get it cheaper there though.
 

Transistor

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Oct 25, 2017
10,671
Cloudbank
I mean, the publisher isn't taking a hit. This would have only gotten more sales for Paradox. Just an odd decision
 

NeoRaider

Member
Feb 7, 2018
3,024
That's just stupid decision imo. They are still getting the same money, i don't understand why would they do this and screw over potential buyers.
 

Dusk Golem

Local Horror Enthusiast
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
3,272
I get the feeling the sale they were doing was not approved by Paradox.

For the record, the game was like, in some territories on EGS being sold for like 50%, and the game doesn't have an approved release date yet. I'm assuming Paradox did NOT approve that, Epic set the sale, and Paradox was not happy.

The thing is, game devaluation is a real thing, and I can completely see why they didn't want this since that sets a standard that they don't want, ESPECIALLY before release. Everyone who is saying it was a stupid choice probably are thinking of this in a short-term, not long-term way. Especially since games are expensive to make and it'd devalue the game down the line from a way a storefront is handling their game.

Anyone who is claiming this is "scummy" is very short-sighted, and this is completely within Paradox's right to do, and honestly it's a good move for them as it is their product and this would have negative long-term consequences due to how Epic decided to handle the sale.
 

bluexy

Freelance Games Journalist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,075
How weird. Seems like nothing but benefit for a single-player offline game like Bloodline 2. I could maybe see an early access online game wanting to avoid getting hit with a lot of new players... but... hmm.
 
Possible explanation, prices during sale

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,131
To explain it better:
There is a % base discount first in some games that takes it from the base price in the different regions:
Imagine a game that is 60€ in one region and 18 in another, both have a 10% discount, making the game:
60*0.9=54€
18*0.9=16.2€

Then if the game is above the 15€ barrier, it gets a 10€ fixed cut:
60*0.9-10=44€
18*0.9-10=6.2€

The second flat discount makes the first game a total of 27% discount in the normal region but a 75% discount in the poorer region.

In the case of VtM:Bloodlines 2, it was only the flat 10€, which makes it 50 (down from 60) and 8 (down from 18) repectively (and 17% and 54% discount), making it so that they probably fucked their own sales in their own store as well as any possibility of price parity in other stores (such as GMG and GOG running a 10€ discount).

But Paradox already knew about this, apparently, and changed their mind at the last moment.
They probably knew it was a 10€ discount in big regions, not that it would be a 10€ discount OVER ANY PRICE, creating loopsided discount % in some regions, discounts that VtM:Bloodlines 2, their biggest game ever is too young to have yet.

Edit: I want to say that I already called this move a dick move by PDX, but I can understand why it happened.
 

Rodjer

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Jan 28, 2018
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The game was selling as low as 5$ bucks, that's a VERY LOW price lol

It's perfecty understandable.
 

HardRojo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,921
Epic devalued the game by putting it on sale way before its even released. So I get it. Sucks for people that wanted to get it cheaper there though.
This is the first thing that came to mind. Yes, it's easy to say "They don't lose money because they'll receive the whole amount as if it hadn't been discounted", but there are a few other factors to take into account.
The thing is, game devaluation is a real thing
See Nintendo. Their first party titles hardly get any discounts (which fucking sucks for the consumer if you ask me, so it sucks for me), but knowing their games don't get these kinds of deep sales often, if ever, is what made me buy BotW at full price in October 2018 and why I'll get Mario Kart 8 at basically full price soon as well.
 

KaiLeng

Member
Sep 8, 2018
516
I think they don't want to tank their sales in the future in the regions in which it was VERY low priced. Here in Russia it was like 5$ - people who did not buy it on Epic would just want to wait for steam summer sale or something and expect the same price cut as EGS gave.
 

Angeal78

Member
Oct 26, 2017
233
Using VPN you can purchase Detoit and Control at 9-10$ and 12-13$ so I understand this decision xD...
 

Rodjer

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Banned
Jan 28, 2018
4,808
To explain it better:
There is a % base discount first in some games that takes it from the base price in the different regions:
Imagine a game that is 60€ in one region and 18 in another, both have a 10% discount, making the game:
60*0.9=54€
18*0.9=16.2€

Then if the game is above the 15€ barrier, it gets a 10€ fixed cut:
60*0.9-10=44€
18*0.9-10=6.2€

The second flat discount makes the first game a total of 27% discount in the normal region but a 75% discount in the poorer region.

In the case of VtM:Bloodlines 2, it was only the flat 10€, which makes it 50 and 18 repectively (and 17% and 54% discount), making it so that they probably fucked their own sales in their own store as well as any possibility of price parity in other stores (such as GMG and GOG running a 10€ discount).
benzopil threadmark this.

. Seems like nothing but benefit for a single-player offline game like Bloodline 2
There's no benefit if your game is being sold as low as 5$ in several regions.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
20,087
To explain it better:
There is a % base discount first in some games that takes it from the base price in the different regions:
Imagine a game that is 60€ in one region and 18 in another, both have a 10% discount, making the game:
60*0.9=54€
18*0.9=16.2€

Then if the game is above the 15€ barrier, it gets a 10€ fixed cut:
60*0.9-10=44€
18*0.9-10=6.2€

The second flat discount makes the first game a total of 27% discount in the normal region but a 75% discount in the poorer region.

In the case of VtM:Bloodlines 2, it was only the flat 10€, which makes it 50 and 18 repectively (and 17% and 54% discount), making it so that they probably fucked their own sales in their own store as well as any possibility of price parity in other stores (such as GMG and GOG running a 10€ discount).


They probably knew it was a 10€ discount in big regions, not that it would be a 10€ discount OVER ANY PRICE, creating loopsided discount % in some regions, discounts that VtM:Bloodlines 2, their biggest game ever is too young to have yet.
Wow, thanks professor. Not even being sarcastic, this explained it really well.
 

KaiLeng

Member
Sep 8, 2018
516
I get the feeling the sale they were doing was not approved by Paradox.

For the record, the game was like, in some territories on EGS being sold for like 50%, and the game doesn't have an approved release date yet. I'm assuming Paradox did NOT approve that, Epic set the sale, and Paradox was not happy.

The thing is, game devaluation is a real thing, and I can completely see why they didn't want this since that sets a standard that they don't want, ESPECIALLY before release. Everyone who is saying it was a stupid choice probably are thinking of this in a short-term, not long-term way. Especially since games are expensive to make and it'd devalue the game down the line from a way a storefront is handling their game.
In that DTF article Galyonkin actually says that Paradox approved the sale.

4. Издатель был заранее информирован о механизме распродажи и знал о её условиях. - "The publisher was informed beforehand about the particular aspects of the sale and it's conditions"
 

Dusk Golem

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Oct 25, 2017
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In that DTF article Galyonkin actually says that Paradox approved the sale.
I'm sure they approved it, but I also am just as certain that "approving" in this case didn't include how the game ended up priced in certain territories since Epic's really weird with regional pricing. I'd also place a bet there was a developer/publisher split on this viewpoint, but ultimately they changed their mind and I think it's for the best. So contribute probably not everyone being on-board, and how stupidly cheap Epic made the game in some territories, and yeah it's really easy to tell the extent of the sale wasn't exactly approved by Paradox in how it was being priced in some regions.
 

Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,600
I get the feeling the sale they were doing was not approved by Paradox.

For the record, the game was like, in some territories on EGS being sold for like 50%, and the game doesn't have an approved release date yet. I'm assuming Paradox did NOT approve that, Epic set the sale, and Paradox was not happy.

The thing is, game devaluation is a real thing, and I can completely see why they didn't want this since that sets a standard that they don't want, ESPECIALLY before release. Everyone who is saying it was a stupid choice probably are thinking of this in a short-term, not long-term way. Especially since games are expensive to make and it'd devalue the game down the line from a way a storefront is handling their game.

Anyone who is claiming this is "scummy" is very short-sighted.
Cheapest region was $15 - $10 = $5 that's 92% discount a year before release. (well cheapest that was eligible for $10 discount)
 

Kinsei

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,099
Understandable as the game was like 50% off in ome regions. Why would anyone in those regions buy the game at full price when it had such a big discount before release.
 

Uzzy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,803
In that DTF article Galyonkin actually says that Paradox approved the sale.
At the very least, Paradox weren't aware of all the aspects and repercussions of this sale. That's the only reason they'd pull it.

Whether or not that's due to poor communication from Epic or poor understanding from Paradox we'll likely never know.
 

LewieP

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,913
Curious as to why the game was removed from the store rather than just opting out of the sale...
 

Rodjer

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People are really blaming Paradox on this?
Do you think a publisher will ever sell their own game at 5$ in pre-order 1 year before the release? Come on!
 

Angeal78

Member
Oct 26, 2017
233
You can't actually complete a purchase while running a VPN though. It will block you from doing such, you can only get regional prices of this nature if those prices are active in your region.
I read that you can actually use it if you use VPN + Real addres from that country and something more...

In fact theres people buying games on that forum with this method.
 

Stiler

Avenger
Oct 29, 2017
6,280
Epic devalued the game by putting it on sale way before its even released. So I get it. Sucks for people that wanted to get it cheaper there though.
I mean...this is common? Like you can find almost any new pc game for a discounted price on storefronts like gmg/gamersgate/cdkeys, etc and it doesn't hurt those games.
 

collige

Member
Oct 31, 2017
5,055
My big takeway from this is that the EGS back end infrastructure is apparently so busted that it was easier to take the game off the store entirely that blacklist it from this sale.

I mean...this is common? Like you can find almost any new pc game for a discounted price on storefronts like gmg/gamersgate/cdkeys, etc and it doesn't hurt those games.
I believe the problem in this case is that the formula for calculation the discount wasn't thought out very well, so the customer ends up with unintended massive percent drops in some regions.
 

Rodjer

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I mean...this is common? Like you can find almost any new pc game for a discounted price on storefronts like gmg/gamersgate/cdkeys, etc and it doesn't hurt those games.
There's a difference between 20% off out of 60$ game and selling your game at 5$.