ParentERA |OT| What To Expect When You’re Not Sleeping

Kyuur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,602
Keep at it, you'll find a groove eventually!

Have you tried out any on-person carriers? The baby k'tan worked really well for my wife to do stuff during the day. I can't remember how old our daughter was when we started using it though.
 

Nephtes

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,298
Keep at it, you'll find a groove eventually!

Have you tried out any on-person carriers? The baby k'tan worked really well for my wife to do stuff during the day. I can't remember how old our daughter was when we started using it though.
We have one, but I think it's for when the kid is a bit bigger and has head control.
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,437
Columbus, Ohio
We have one, but I think it's for when the kid is a bit bigger and has head control.
The wrap ones can be used right away I think. We found some video on YouTube about how to wrap it so that it makes a little nest on your chest that cocoons the baby and supports her head and that’s how we got stuff done around the house and outside while she slept from I think the first week.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
I'm still waiting for the groove where I get to play videogames again with some regularity and feel like a normal person... 🙄
Regularly? You're talking maybe 5+ years, when they can go down decently at night for a few hours before you and/or nap separately and, again decently or occupy themselves for a bit.

I was able to get in some gaming on switch during naps and while taking him for the night so my wife could get sleep. Nowadays though it's easier to pull out my phone and read or watch a show since I'm probably not getting much anyway. If you couldn't get any in that first month you likely won't find it any easier in the subsequent months.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,857
I'm still waiting for the groove where I get to play videogames again with some regularity and feel like a normal person... 🙄
Hang in there. I was there when my kid was young too, but eventually you get to the point where the kid go to bed at a set time, and sleep through the night by themselves.

That's when it starts getting easier, and that's when we both started having a few hours to ourselves before we went to bed too. I've managed to play and finish a few games in these "after the kid's gone to bed" hours in the past few months, so your life does return to some sense of order eventually.
 

Rocketz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,949
Ferndale, Michigan
Well tomorrow we're flying to Boston and then heading to Maine for a wedding. My son will be a lap child on the flight and thankfully it's early enough and two hours long I don't think it will be a big deal at all.

The car right though after is what I'm dreading. He already gets mad now when he wants to get out and do baby things but he's going to be stuck for a few hours. I hope he sleeps some of it but well have to see.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
331
Well tomorrow we're flying to Boston and then heading to Maine for a wedding. My son will be a lap child on the flight and thankfully it's early enough and two hours long I don't think it will be a big deal at all.

The car right though after is what I'm dreading. He already gets mad now when he wants to get out and do baby things but he's going to be stuck for a few hours. I hope he sleeps some of it but well have to see.
As much as I hate promoting screens, iPads are your friend here. My daughter gets antsy after an hour or so in the car, but then an episode of Sesame Street keeps her calm for a while. We'll be doing the drive from NY to Acadia in about a month...gonna be interesting....
 

Rocketz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,949
Ferndale, Michigan
As much as I hate promoting screens, iPads are your friend here. My daughter gets antsy after an hour or so in the car, but then an episode of Sesame Street keeps her calm for a while. We'll be doing the drive from NY to Acadia in about a month...gonna be interesting....
Yeah Baby TV is our best friend on Sling. We have a kindle that we’re planning on taking but those only last so long before were on to something else.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
Eh, the swing wasn't so much for sleep as I just need something we can put the baby in to soothe her so we can get things done around the house. Like, we just just cannot keep up with things between me working and her focusing on the baby while she has maternity leave.

So typically what happens is, I get home and I get handed off a baby and my wife passes out. If I try to put her down to cook dinner or clean house, 7 times out of 10, she cries because she likes to be rocked The swing was mostly supposed to be for the purposes of quieting her so things could get done around the house.

We're looking forward to "cry it out" and "sleep training", but we've read you don't want to start that till they're 4 or 5 months old...
Yeah, with little babies if they're crying it's because they need something... hungry, diaper, gassy, upset. Still, at ~2mos or so I think our daughter started sleeping pretty reliably for stretches. I remember that first night that she slept ~5 hours in a row we woke up like... terrified something was wrong.

There's some things you have to get used to not having any time to do for a stretch, but it gets easier. Like you we only really used the swing to get some quick stuff done around the house, take a shower, etc.

Nice thing about little infants is you can put them down on you and they'll fall asleep and you can do something like play videogames for a short stretch. My wife would be passed out, baby would be passed out, and I'd crush some levels of ... Hollow Knight or play games that I'd never normally play like Madden Ultimate Team. IT was a good mode for having an infant because play segments would be like 2-3mins long and you could just give up on them if baby woke up.. Once she got a little bigger and cogniscant of the world around her that wasn't really possible.

These days, baby goes to sleep at about 7-730, give or take, and my wife usually passes out by 930 or so, so if it's a weekend I'll try and get through a couple hours of whatever.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,721
Well tomorrow we're flying to Boston and then heading to Maine for a wedding. My son will be a lap child on the flight and thankfully it's early enough and two hours long I don't think it will be a big deal at all.

The car right though after is what I'm dreading. He already gets mad now when he wants to get out and do baby things but he's going to be stuck for a few hours. I hope he sleeps some of it but well have to see.
Good luck on the flight + Drive. We're flying to Europe from Boston on Tuesday with our ~11mos old and .. I'm not exactly looking forward to it ..

She's usually pretty good in the car, but strictly for like an hour. SHe'll fall asleep and be passed out but longer than an hour and she'll wake up and get fussy. So far I Don't think we've had any drives longer than 60-90mins so hasn't been too bad.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,857
Well tomorrow we're flying to Boston and then heading to Maine for a wedding. My son will be a lap child on the flight and thankfully it's early enough and two hours long I don't think it will be a big deal at all.

The car right though after is what I'm dreading. He already gets mad now when he wants to get out and do baby things but he's going to be stuck for a few hours. I hope he sleeps some of it but well have to see.
Have some toys handy to distract him when he gets fussy. I've taken my kid on car trips and while he is usually pretty happy sightseeing for a while and naps for a while, he inevitably gets bored of both of those things and then starts whining to get out. So you need a few distractions on hand to keep him from getting too bored.

You may also need more rest stops during the car trip, just to give him a chance to get out of the car for a bit. Stop now and then to get a coffee or something. Anything that breaks the monotony is good.
 

Rocketz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,949
Ferndale, Michigan
Thanks everyone. We’re in Boston now. The flight from Detroit was quicker than I thought. Thankfully he slept half of the flight. He was only slightly fussy when he wanted to explore and we wouldn’t let him. Delta gave him his own set of pilot wings. I’m in the backseat with him and he has all kinds of toys and a Kindle if needed.

He’s back sleeping so I’m hoping he does until we get to our lunch spot.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,205
About to start sleep training, sorely needed but not looking forward to it. They were sleeping well and then around 4 months we took them out of swaddles completely as they could roll. They spent some time in those sleep suits but then began to start to roll in those as well. We were getting a few nights a week of sleeping all the way through. Now at 6 months old and for the past month they've been waking up between 3:30 and 4:30 every night and I don't think it is because they are hungry. Thank God they at least don't wake each other up when one starts crying. So the weening off night feedings and tough love begins soon, going to get out doctor's blessing at their 6 month check-up next week. Going to break my heart to let them cry it out ):
 

Anno

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,437
Columbus, Ohio
About to start sleep training, sorely needed but not looking forward to it. They were sleeping well and then around 4 months we took them out of swaddles completely as they could roll. They spent some time in those sleep suits but then began to start to roll in those as well. We were getting a few nights a week of sleeping all the way through. Now at 6 months old and for the past month they've been waking up between 3:30 and 4:30 every night and I don't think it is because they are hungry. Thank God they at least don't wake each other up when one starts crying. So the weening off night feedings and tough love begins soon, going to get out doctor's blessing at their 6 month check-up next week. Going to break my heart to let them cry it out ):
If it makes you feel any better we did this when our daughter was about 6.5 months old and she cried for maybe 20 minutes. The second night she went straight to sleep and has only rarely cried at bedtime since then.

We did take all her previous diet and compress it into the day, plus maybe a little bit more. Not sure how instrumental that was in it working so well, though.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
About to start sleep training, sorely needed but not looking forward to it. They were sleeping well and then around 4 months we took them out of swaddles completely as they could roll. They spent some time in those sleep suits but then began to start to roll in those as well. We were getting a few nights a week of sleeping all the way through. Now at 6 months old and for the past month they've been waking up between 3:30 and 4:30 every night and I don't think it is because they are hungry. Thank God they at least don't wake each other up when one starts crying. So the weening off night feedings and tough love begins soon, going to get out doctor's blessing at their 6 month check-up next week. Going to break my heart to let them cry it out ):
Wow, sounds like you've already got it pretty lucky. Ours wakes up at least 6 or 7 times throughout the night. Every hour and a half on average. 4 months destroyed his sleeping. Before that he would sleep a chunk about 4 hours sometimes. Since then he won't get past two except on occasion. He's had a 4 hour sleep every couple weeks. He's never slept through the night. 10 months old now.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,205
Wow, sounds like you've already got it pretty lucky. Ours wakes up at least 6 or 7 times throughout the night. Every hour and a half on average. 4 months destroyed his sleeping. Before that he would sleep a chunk about 4 hours sometimes. Since then he won't get past two except on occasion. He's had a 4 hour sleep every couple weeks. He's never slept through the night. 10 months old now.
Yeah, it's not all bad, just want to get all the way there! That sounds rough, I'm sure you've been searching high and low for answers.

If it makes you feel any better we did this when our daughter was about 6.5 months old and she cried for maybe 20 minutes. The second night she went straight to sleep and has only rarely cried at bedtime since then.

We did take all her previous diet and compress it into the day, plus maybe a little bit more. Not sure how instrumental that was in it working so well, though.
We have the bed-time routine down pretty good now and do a little Cry It Out if needed then. Our issue now is the middle of the night wake-ups. For a while the assumption was they must be hungry, or they weren't used to no swaddle, or they were going through sleep regression. At this point I think it's just for attention and we're ready for that tough love. I think like you said we need to compress their diet and do a little more cluster feeding at night before bed. Get em all stocked up.

I'm OK with the crying it out before bed because I know they are well fed and are just fighting it, there's just still that instinct in the middle of the night that something is wrong and wanting to go save them.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
Yeah, it's not all bad, just want to get all the way there! That sounds rough, I'm sure you've been searching high and low for answers.
It's pretty rough. We've averaged probably 4-5 hours of sleep per night since he's been born. Never really continuous. There aren't answers except sleep training, really, but we don't want to do that. Self soothing is a myth for babies and children until they're much older. Babies don't wake up less because of sleep training. You're just teaching them not to communicate their needs with you at night. They still feel the same emotions, just don't cry.

I guess the other answer is co-sleep and we're contemplating that at this time. We both wouldn't do it with him as a tiny baby. Too afraid, but now that he's older and more substantial we're both a bit more ok with that possibility. We don't have any of the big risk factors like drinking or smoking, so it's much safer if you set things up right.

We have the bed-time routine down pretty good now and do a little Cry It Out if needed then. Our issue now is the middle of the night wake-ups. For a while the assumption was they must be hungry, or they weren't used to no swaddle, or they were going through sleep regression. At this point I think it's just for attention and we're ready for that tough love. I think like you said we need to compress their diet and do a little more cluster feeding at night before bed. Get em all stocked up.

I'm OK with the crying it out before bed because I know they are well fed and are just fighting it, there's just still that instinct in the middle of the night that something is wrong and wanting to go save them.
Just for attention is such a bizarre thing to say about a baby though. They have no idea where their primary caregiver is, they don't know where they are. They wake up in fear and doubt. They're disoriented and cry out because that's the only way they communicate. They can't deal with emotions and won't have that ability for years afterwards. They don't have impulse control. They're crying because they literally need you. You're life for them.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it or anything like that. I know sleep training is needed to, well, live for some parents. Everything's a tradeoff. I just get a bit weird about the phrasing when it comes to babies and toddlers and the whole "for attention" thing.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,205
It's pretty rough. We've averaged probably 4-5 hours of sleep per night since he's been born. Never really continuous. There aren't answers except sleep training, really, but we don't want to do that. Self soothing is a myth for babies and children until they're much older. Babies don't wake up less because of sleep training. You're just teaching them not to communicate their needs with you at night. They still feel the same emotions, just don't cry.

I guess the other answer is co-sleep and we're contemplating that at this time. We both wouldn't do it with him as a tiny baby. Too afraid, but now that he's older and more substantial we're both a bit more ok with that possibility. We don't have any of the big risk factors like drinking or smoking, so it's much safer if you set things up right.



Just for attention is such a bizarre thing to say about a baby though. They have no idea where their primary caregiver is, they don't know where they are. They wake up in fear and doubt. They're disoriented and cry out because that's the only way they communicate. They can't deal with emotions and won't have that ability for years afterwards. They don't have impulse control. They're crying because they literally need you. You're life for them.

I'm not trying to talk you out of it or anything like that. I know sleep training is needed to, well, live for some parents. Everything's a tradeoff. I just get a bit weird about the phrasing when it comes to babies and toddlers and the whole "for attention" thing.
Harsh wording, for attention is probably a poor choice. I’m not trying to accuse them of being needy lol. It’s why sleep training is so tough, you know they are crying because they are afraid and want mom/dad.

But as you stated, it is for us to be functioning human beings. Twins is a full time task for two people and we both work full-time jobs. Going to work on as little sleep as you are mentioning is not an option as it’ll either result in an accident or not performing and then not being able to support two kids.

What’s better in the long run? Them learning to put themselves back to sleep when there isn’t an actual emergency or having two brain dead parents that can’t give them the love and attention they need during their “awake” hours.

I’ll choose loving and caring parents for 12 hours and tough love parents for the other 12.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
Harsh wording, for attention is probably a poor choice. I’m not trying to accuse them of being needy lol. It’s why sleep training is so tough, you know they are crying because they are afraid and want mom/dad.

But as you stated, it is for us to be functioning human beings. Twins is a full time task for two people and we both work full-time jobs. Going to work on as little sleep as you are mentioning is not an option as it’ll either result in an accident or not performing and then not being able to support two kids.

What’s better in the long run? Them learning to put themselves back to sleep when there isn’t an actual emergency or having two brain dead parents that can’t give them the love and attention they need during their “awake” hours.

I’ll choose loving and caring parents for 12 hours and tough love parents for the other 12.
Right, sorry I just had a bit of an issue with the wording. I'm not shitting on anyone for doing the sleep training. Parenting is full of making tough decisions unfortunately. That's one of them. You know your situation and you know what's going on.

I just don't like it when people characterize babies, especially like under 1 as weirdly unnecessarily attention seeking like they're manipulative assholes or something. They're babies! As you said, they're afraid and want the only security they've ever known, and they communicate it in the only way they've ever known. It really sucks to have to teach them not too communicate instead.

I still think we sugar coat it by calling it sleep training, etc. You're not training them to sleep. They wake up the same amount. They're still afraid the same amount. They're just not communicating. It's communication training. Or lack thereof. Which, again, if you have to do it you have to do it.
 

lt519

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,205
Right, sorry I just had a bit of an issue with the wording. I'm not shitting on anyone for doing the sleep training. Parenting is full of making tough decisions unfortunately. That's one of them. You know your situation and you know what's going on.

I just don't like it when people characterize babies, especially like under 1 as weirdly unnecessarily attention seeking like they're manipulative assholes or something. They're babies! As you said, they're afraid and want the only security they've ever known, and they communicate it in the only way they've ever known. It really sucks to have to teach them not too communicate instead.

I still think we sugar coat it by calling it sleep training, etc. You're not training them to sleep. They wake up the same amount. They're still afraid the same amount. They're just not communicating. It's communication training. Or lack thereof. Which, again, if you have to do it you have to do it.
That’s all fair and not something I’ve thought too deeply about so I’m glad you bring up another perspective. It’s always good to understand all opinions and I’ll certainly be thinking about it. No worries, I appreciate the input.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
That’s all fair and not something I’ve thought too deeply about so I’m glad you bring up another perspective. It’s always good to understand all opinions and I’ll certainly be thinking about it. No worries, I appreciate the input.
In any case I hope things go well for you guys!
 

splash wave

Member
Oct 25, 2017
552
Bay Area, CA
Are there any breastfeeding videos/guides that really helped you/your partner nail the technique? We’re doing a mix of bottle and breast with our daughter, but it’s been tough to fully wean her off the former. There are so many times when we get her ready to breastfeed and give up out of frustration.
 

emag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,914
Are there any breastfeeding videos/guides that really helped you/your partner nail the technique? We’re doing a mix of bottle and breast with our daughter, but it’s been tough to fully wean her off the former. There are so many times when we get her ready to breastfeed and give up out of frustration.
I'd recommend working with a lactation consultant in person. Most insurance plans should cover at least one session.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
331
I'd recommend working with a lactation consultant in person. Most insurance plans should cover at least one session.
I'll second this. My wife had a REALLY hard time getting my daughter to latch. We worked with two different lactation consultants, probably had a total of 6 or 7 visits. Every situation is different, so having a skilled person evaluate your specific situation is critical. The first one we had was just OK, but the second one we had was amazing and made a huge difference.
 

CrudeDiatribe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
702
Eastern Canada

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
No, indeed, it's training them to go back to sleep. There are ways to do it that don't involve abandoning them in the crib— not sure there's any less crying in the end, but I'm not unhappy we didn't stick with cry it out.
Nope. It trains them not to communicate with you that they're awake and scared/needy, because you're not there at all or are not coming. They go back to sleep either way not because they're trained, but because their body and mind are still tired. They still wake up the same amount of times, and babies are literally not developed enough to actually deal with their emotions and 'self sooth.' The difference is in communicating with you.

Being fine with your decision to cry it out has nothing to do with it. I'm not trying to chastise anyone for doing it. I've said a multitude of times that you've got to make these tough decisions as a parent. But basically our some fucking Orwellian terms on here to make ourselves feel better about it.

A lot of parents do sleep training because they think their baby then sleeps through the night, but they do not. There's even a study that shows babies with training and without wake up the same amount but parents report far less wake ups. So we're kind of tricking ourselves as to what's going on. Yes, parents of those trained babies feel better and sleep better, too. That's a good tradeoff for some.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,857
Are there any breastfeeding videos/guides that really helped you/your partner nail the technique? We’re doing a mix of bottle and breast with our daughter, but it’s been tough to fully wean her off the former. There are so many times when we get her ready to breastfeed and give up out of frustration.
We had feeding aversion issues and they were solved by a consultation with the lady who runs this site: https://www.babycareadvice.com/

It sounds like you're just looking for breastfeeding guides, and I think there are some articles about that there too. I didn't look at that section of the site in particular, but I can vouch that this person knows what she's doing and is generally extremely understanding.
 

CrudeDiatribe

Member
Oct 25, 2017
702
Eastern Canada
Nope. It trains them not to communicate with you that they're awake and scared/needy, because you're not there at all or are not coming
I feel the same way about CIO as you've broadly painted sleep training, but really don't think that that is the effect of all sleep training.

I've only had one kid, and she's nearly two now, but she has absolutely no problem communicating her unhappiness if there is any when she wakes in the middle of the night— just that for the past year or whatever (I don't remember? 15 months?) she has mostly been sleeping fine (that is, when she inevitably wakes, as we all do, she usually goes back to sleep on her own without fuss).

Of course, I have no way of knowing to what degree our current sleep-related successes and failures (bed time takes too long and is too late at night) is a product of (epi-) genetics vs our efforts to teach her that her crib is a safe place and that a parent will come quickly if she wants one.

Being fine with your decision to cry it out has nothing to do with it.
My memory is that studies have found no longterm (5Y) difference between kids who were left to cry it out versus those that weren't, and given that the baby won't remember any of it as they grow into childhood, I think how it affects us as parents has everything to do with it.
 

Hamrub

Member
Oct 27, 2017
379
Glasgow
I'll second this. My wife had a REALLY hard time getting my daughter to latch. We worked with two different lactation consultants, probably had a total of 6 or 7 visits. Every situation is different, so having a skilled person evaluate your specific situation is critical. The first one we had was just OK, but the second one we had was amazing and made a huge difference.
We also did this and it made a big difference for us too.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
My memory is that studies have found no longterm (5Y) difference between kids who were left to cry it out versus those that weren't, and given that the baby won't remember any of it as they grow into childhood, I think how it affects us as parents has everything to do with it.
I meant has nothing to do with my issue on word/phrasing definition. Of course the effects it has on the child (which limited studies do seem to say it's fine long-term) and the effects it has on the adults should be taken into account.
 

Septimus Prime

EA
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
4,196
So, I finally watched Daniel Tiger's Neighborhood (we're doing this thing where we introduce my son to a character via book first, then TV show, and I'm finding that he ends up looking them a lot more that way), and while it's good, holy shit does it make me miss Mr. Rogers. Like, there's a huge void where he should be when I'm watching this show. Doubly so when I hear a new version of one of his old songs. "It's such a good feeling, a very good feeling, a feeling you know that I'll be back when the day is new." But he won't be back, and that sucks so much.
 

Rocketz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,949
Ferndale, Michigan
Well I think teething is officially here right before he turns 9 months. Dude has been out of it all day. He’ll only sleep with mom holding him. Lots of drool yesterday and and you can tell he’s in pain today. Didn’t sleep very well last night at all.

Looks like his top teeth are going to come in first.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
331
Well I think teething is officially here right before he turns 9 months. Dude has been out of it all day. He’ll only sleep with mom holding him. Lots of drool yesterday and and you can tell he’s in pain today. Didn’t sleep very well last night at all.

Looks like his top teeth are going to come in first.
Tylenol. And if he’s ok with Motrin you can piggyback those every 3ish hours if he’s really uncomfortable.

It’s a rough time for the kid...and it happens again around 1.5 years when the canines come in...
 

Rocketz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,949
Ferndale, Michigan
Tylenol. And if he’s ok with Motrin you can piggyback those every 3ish hours if he’s really uncomfortable.

It’s a rough time for the kid...and it happens again around 1.5 years when the canines come in...
Yep we’re every 6 hours with liquid Tylenol. Normally 30 minutes after a dose he’s somewhat back to normal for a little bit at least.

Hoping he passes out at his normal time for bed tonight.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,857
Teething sucks but thankfully it's usually over within a few days.

Unless the kid has multiple teeth in succession, like mine lol.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,099
Indonesia
Hello folks~!

New parent here, literally just a week ago I became a parent of a baby boy. Besides constantly being tired, the past several days have been an amazing for me and my wife. We're mostly doing okay, she gave birth normally and we're planning to give the baby 100% breast milk until he's ready for the real food later. There are a couple of concerns though. First, it looks like he's having trouble breathing every now and then, it's like he's having a flu. Second, he's sleeping a lot, and it's hard to wake him up for meal time. Any tips would be so much appreciated.
 

Kyuur

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,602
Hello folks~!

New parent here, literally just a week ago I became a parent of a baby boy. Besides constantly being tired, the past several days have been an amazing for me and my wife. We're mostly doing okay, she gave birth normally and we're planning to give the baby 100% breast milk until he's ready for the real food later. There are a couple of concerns though. First, it looks like he's having trouble breathing every now and then, it's like he's having a flu. Second, he's sleeping a lot, and it's hard to wake him up for meal time. Any tips would be so much appreciated.
Our baby was super congested for several weeks after birth and had real problems sleeping certain ways because of it. There were some off the counter drops we used to unknown effect, but it's nice to have a placebo sometimes.

I would definitely consult your doctor or public health nurse (if you have them) though. Don't want to miss something more serious.
 

texhnolyze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,099
Indonesia
Our baby was super congested for several weeks after birth and had real problems sleeping certain ways because of it. There were some off the counter drops we used to unknown effect, but it's nice to have a placebo sometimes.

I would definitely consult your doctor or public health nurse (if you have them) though. Don't want to miss something more serious.
Yeah, we're planning to consult the doctor tomorrow in the morning. Thanks for the input.
 
Hello folks~!

New parent here, literally just a week ago I became a parent of a baby boy. Besides constantly being tired, the past several days have been an amazing for me and my wife. We're mostly doing okay, she gave birth normally and we're planning to give the baby 100% breast milk until he's ready for the real food later. There are a couple of concerns though. First, it looks like he's having trouble breathing every now and then, it's like he's having a flu. Second, he's sleeping a lot, and it's hard to wake him up for meal time. Any tips would be so much appreciated.
For the sleeping through meal times, sometimes you have to tickle their feet or nose to wake them up enough to latch. Once they get it, they're usually pretty good to go with "dream feeding." Just run your fingers lightly along the pads of his feet or on the cheek/nose to get his attention, then pop the boob in. 👍
 

GiJose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
111
A lot of parents do sleep training because they think their baby then sleeps through the night, but they do not. There's even a study that shows babies with training and without wake up the same amount but parents report far less wake ups. So we're kind of tricking ourselves as to what's going on. Yes, parents of those trained babies feel better and sleep better, too. That's a good tradeoff for some.
But what does a similar number of wakeups even mean? In normal sleep we constantly go through periods where we toss and turn, often in a nearly wakeful state, but we don't remember those occurrences usually and drift back onto deeper sleep.

You're making a lot of assumptions of what babies think and feel. What if you're doing the reverse of sleep training, and you're essentially training your child to wake up those 7 times at night?

I get that sleep training is not for you, but the things you say make it sound like you have rationalized that sleep training is bad or wrong in some way, and there is absolutely zero evidence for that
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
But what does a similar number of wakeups even mean? In normal sleep we constantly go through periods where we toss and turn, often in a nearly wakeful state, but we don't remember those occurrences usually and drift back onto deeper sleep.

You're making a lot of assumptions of what babies think and feel. What if you're doing the reverse of sleep training, and you're essentially training your child to wake up those 7 times at night?

I get that sleep training is not for you, but the things you say make it sound like you have rationalized that sleep training is bad or wrong in some way, and there is absolutely zero evidence for that

Huh? If scientifically they wake up the same amount of times with training and without then how would not sleep training actually be training them to wake up? There’s be more wake ups if that were true and less if training were making them sleep longer rather than wake up.

And I don’t need to make any assumptions for what I’m saying. Babies communicate need via crying. Ignoring that communication until they no longer do it is training them not to communicate. That’s all I’m saying.

My issue is with misleading wording of all this. Babies can’t self-soothe, either. Regulating emotions requires a far more developed neocortex. Instead of expressing their emotions through communication they freeze up. But the emotions are still there. It’s like a deer in headlights. It’s still fearful but it’s not communicating that.

Other studies show that chemically a baby still experiences elevated cortisol levels, they just don’t outwardly express it. So they wake up the same amount and experience the same chemical changes to indicate they are not ‘soothed.’
 
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O-Zips

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,335
Hello folks~!

New parent here, literally just a week ago I became a parent of a baby boy. Besides constantly being tired, the past several days have been an amazing for me and my wife. We're mostly doing okay, she gave birth normally and we're planning to give the baby 100% breast milk until he's ready for the real food later. There are a couple of concerns though. First, it looks like he's having trouble breathing every now and then, it's like he's having a flu. Second, he's sleeping a lot, and it's hard to wake him up for meal time. Any tips would be so much appreciated.
Our little guy was super congested for the first month or so, with another flare up (possibly from a cold) before finally clearing up for good at about two+ months. Saline drops can be used to help loosen any globs of mucus - especially ones too far back to see. With a little luck that got out a big glob and gave him a couple hours of relief. We also got a humidifier to help keep the air from getting really dry. The snot suckers never really worked. I -hated- the congestion as it would wake him up after we'd finally gotten him to sleep, and I worried he might just stop breathing while asleep because of it. Nurses said they'd never seen a baby more congested. That + gas cramps made the first one to two months super fun.

Gentle touching or blowing on the hair/face was usually enough to wake up the little guy during feeding.


Anyone dealing/dealt with baby eczema? Poor guy has been so itchy lately even with moisturizer and prescribed cream. It might have been made worse by a bout of diarrhea he's had this past week, either from a virus or teething. Really want to give him some relief, and worry he might get a scratch or eczema lesion infected with staph or something.
 

RedNalgene

Member
Oct 25, 2017
331
Anyone dealing/dealt with baby eczema? Poor guy has been so itchy lately even with moisturizer and prescribed cream. It might have been made worse by a bout of diarrhea he's had this past week, either from a virus or teething. Really want to give him some relief, and worry he might get a scratch or eczema lesion infected with staph or something.
My daughter has really sensitive skin, and it took us a month or two to figure out we need to use the very gentle wipes and creams. Specifically, we're using Water Wipes, Cerave moisturizers/soaps, and Mustela cleaning rinse. She will get a rash if we use anything else. Our ped and allergist both recommended those brands for her, and everything went away when we used them religiously.

Also, because my kid has food allergies, we've learned ALOT about general food allergies, and lots of people swear that eczema is caused by the food mom eats (if breastfeeding) or ingredients in the formula. If switching creams doesn't work, have you tried either eliminating major food allergens and/or switching formulas? Could be worth a try if it's really bad.
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
Our little one is definitely on the verge of walking in the next few days/week or so. It's really exciting. We'll watch him stand up and kind of hesitate with one foot. He'll stomp forward with one and maybe drag the other once or twice before tumbling or giving up because it's currently faster to crawl, but he's definitely trying for it. Going to be a whole new world!
 
Our little one is definitely on the verge of walking in the next few days/week or so. It's really exciting. We'll watch him stand up and kind of hesitate with one foot. He'll stomp forward with one and maybe drag the other once or twice before tumbling or giving up because it's currently faster to crawl, but he's definitely trying for it. Going to be a whole new world!
A whole new world of "Final Destination: Oh Baby" will open up! \[-_-]/
 

RDreamer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,713
A whole new world of "Final Destination: Oh Baby" will open up! \[-_-]/
Hahah, yeah I've been preparing for the dread. When he started crawling I joked it was basically 'two hands on the baby at all times.'

I swear every time he got near something this was me:



Calculating and visualizing every way he could be injured.

I'm sure walking will be like that, though I'm thankful he's really good at falling on his butt.

Also thankful this'll come during summer when we can take him outside for some practice in the grass and at the playground rather than 100% indoors.
 

GiJose

Member
Oct 25, 2017
111
Huh? If scientifically they wake up the same amount of times with training and without then how would not sleep training actually be training them to wake up? There’s be more wake ups if that were true and less if training were making them sleep longer rather than wake up.

And I don’t need to make any assumptions for what I’m saying. Babies communicate need via crying. Ignoring that communication until they no longer do it is training them not to communicate. That’s all I’m saying.

My issue is with misleading wording of all this. Babies can’t self-soothe, either. Regulating emotions requires a far more developed neocortex. Instead of expressing their emotions through communication they freeze up. But the emotions are still there. It’s like a deer in headlights. It’s still fearful but it’s not communicating that.

Other studies show that chemically a baby still experiences elevated cortisol levels, they just don’t outwardly express it. So they wake up the same amount and experience the same chemical changes to indicate they are not ‘soothed.’

the study you quoted uses a tool that detects movement, they state nothing more about these 'wake-ups'. the only real takeaway from that is that these movements still happen whether you go in or not, so how does that guide you to sleep train or not? to a certain extent babies develop in all the same ways with similar progression of skills learned, and on top of that, they learn patterns. if your baby learns that whenever they wake up and cry -> mommy and/or daddy appear - that reinforces that pattern. that's a pattern that you have developed with your child.

i'm not sure what you're trying to say with the crying. if you are saying that as parents, you decided to not allow your child to cry without being soothed, then that's cool, that's your decision as parents to make. if you are trying to say that all babies every time they cry they are trying to communicate, and if you don't respond you are causing some negative change in your child, I don't understand how you reach that conclusion.

my child is 'sleep trained' (i agree that it's a stupid name), they cry as much as they like during the day when awake and they get a response (unless it's obviously a tantrum). regardless of whether he wakes up at night or not, he does not cry. this certainly has not inhibited his communication skills at other times...

and in regards to the cortisol... that's a study of 25 infants, very low power, and it only looks at cortisol levels over a 5 day period of sleep training or not. there's a lot of evidence out there that sleep dysregulation over a longer period is associated with higher levels of stress, these issues persist into adulthood and can manifest in many different ways! https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4385227/ is a decent starting point

i'm not trying to criticize what you do with your child, you have clearly made up your mind that you are not sleep training. it's your decision to make. you also clearly are someone who does their research to support your decisions, and that's where i'm essentially nitpicking. I don't think there are facts out there to support NOT sleep training, and i also don't think it's a decision that requires the facts to support you. the only facts out there really just say that sleep training is fine and doesn't cause harm

and yes, i ramble