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justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
I expect reasonable and sane discussion about this list.

EDIT: too late
This is what modern poetry is all about.

But to be honest, I like when those awards actually teach you about games you never heard of or at least where unsure if are good or not. I tried telltale walking dead because of the award, so this is interesting.
 

Mister X

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,081
Great, fresh list. Literally downloaded Florence to my phone last night. And to everyone missing their favorite run-of-the-mill AAA game, don't worry, all other lists will be full of them. Just let this one slide.


Huh? In this sense every GOTY list is clickbait then.
Yeah, no.

Not having RDR2 in a top 30 best games of the year list... come on now.

It's clear as day they want to be contrarian so they get clicks, nothing more.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The moment I saw that God of War and Monster Hunter World are outside top 20, I knew this is going to be a good list.
Not throwing shade on both games. both are good, and among the best of this year.



My thoughts exactly. Throwing hundreds of same enemies at you felt like an archaic design choice in a game like RDR2.
This is, on a tangent, why I love Into the Breach. Each battle, and each shot, requires you to think of what you can gain or deny the enemy beyond just inflicting HP loss on an enemy force. Because each fight ends after a turn limit, it removes the 'also, you could just kill them all to win' idea that undercuts a lot of strategy scenario design. Often, soaking up damage with your limited force, keeping a generator or building alive for just one more turn, can be the difference between victory and loss further along in the campaign, constantly challenging you to put the objective of civil defence on the same or higher importance than preservation of your units and killing the enemy. Best original strategy game idea I've played in ages, as it doesn't revel in an overpowered min/maxed and tailored force annihilating the enemy, but in doing what you can with what you've got, and you've often not got enough.
 

ghostcrew

The Shrouded Ghost
Administrator
Oct 27, 2017
30,366
It's a good list! Definitely got loads of my top games in there. And a bunch to check out that I'm not familiar with.

Very good to see Fire Pro on there
 

Jade1962

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,259
One benefit of awards season is shining light on lesser known games. Obra Dinn has been on all of these list and I had never heard of it but now it's on my to do list for 2019.
 

Reedirect

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,050
Yeah, no.

Not having RDR2 in a top 30 best games of the year list... come on now.

It's clear as day they want to be contrarian so they get clicks, nothing more.

Or maybe they didn't like it that much. You'll find more about that by reading their other Red Dead 2 articles, not just the redface controversy. Not everything is a conspiracy.
 

Mister X

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,081
Or maybe they didn't like it that much. You'll find more about that by reading their other Red Dead 2 articles, not just the redface controversy. Not everything is a conspiracy.
Their list is full of low scoring games but they couldn't get in a game that has a 97 MC score...sure bro. Not contrarian or clickbaity at all, no, no.
 

Necromanti

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,550
Their list is full of low scoring games but they couldn't get in a game that has a 97 MC score...sure bro. Not contrarian or clickbaity at all, no, no.
I mean, if you want the top 30 games with the best Metacritic score, you could go to Metacritic and find those. What's the point of a personal list, then? Plus they'd have to add a disclaimer like, "I didn't particularly enjoy most of these games, but I am mandated to include them because other people said I should."
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
To anyone thinking that indie-heavy lists are deliberately contrarian, there are going to be shedloads of lists comprised of every AAA game released. In particular reader-voted ones from forums (including this one) and websites tend to align closer to both sales and critical reception as readers vote for what they bought, and those will have RDR and God of War firmly at or near the top with something like Florence nowhere to be seen.

The value of these lists is in raising awareness of games that didn't have huge advertising budgets and guaranteed global media coverage. We've all seen tens of thousands of words penned about the big AAA games since the moment they are first shown. They aren't exactly being hard done by when everyone knows what the big games are, lists like this offer something even Era posters like me haven't heard of. That's the value of individual opinion. My own personal GOTY ballot won't have God of War or RDR2 on it either, it doesn't make it click bait if someone's opinion doesn't align with what marketing budgets and critical acclaim from a games media only able to cover the most-anticipated titles out of sheer practicality suggest it should be.

I understand entirely why only a small fraction of the thousands of games released get coverage, with bigger games by huge publishers able to guarantee it. On the other hand, I don't see why some places not joining in on blanket coverage of the two dozen biggest projects at the expense of everything else is a bad thing. Why do we need every site to confirm what we already know rather than add value by talking about what got lost in the wall-to-wall advertising of Rockstar, EA, Sony, Nintendo etc.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,885
Netherlands
Their list is full of low scoring games but they couldn't get in a game that has a 97 MC score...sure bro. Not contrarian or clickbaity at all, no, no.
https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...edemption-2-is-at-its-best-when-im-not-a.html

They weren't particularly fond of it, so including it because other people did seems like the poorest of motivations. Imo the 97 was a complete farce. Like a third of Era is down on the game, how come no reviewer was.
 

Reedirect

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,050
Their list is full of low scoring games but they couldn't get in a game that has a 97 MC score...sure bro. Not contrarian or clickbaity at all, no, no.

If you think people follow an MC score rather than their personal opinion while choosing their favorites, I guess there's no point in arguing.

Btw. RDR 2 is my GOTY, but I'm not upset if someone doesn't include it in their own list.
 

truly101

Banned
Oct 29, 2017
3,245
I'll not understand what critics see in NNK 2. At best, its unremarkable, but it really resonated with folks in the press.
 

entremet

You wouldn't toast a NES cartridge
Member
Oct 26, 2017
60,149
Are we still gonna play the same song and dance game for GoTY lists again?

Looks at these lists are ways to learn about games you may have paid attention instead of a list to be in lockstep with your choices.
 

Mister X

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,081
If you think people follow an MC score rather than their personal opinion while choosing their favorites, I guess there's no point in arguing.

Btw. RDR 2 is my GOTY, but I'm not upset if someone doesn't include it in their own list.
No of course people can find other games better.

But we're talking about 30 games this year that are in their opinion better than RDR2 this year...that's just laughable. Look at some of these games in that list...I mean wtf?

So of course I conclude that this nothing more than being contrarian to garner clicks. Fairly easy logic.
They're all good games.

Don't be a nerd about it.

Not imo, especially compared to RDR2.
https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...edemption-2-is-at-its-best-when-im-not-a.html

They weren't particularly fond of it, so including it because other people did seems like the poorest of motivations. Imo the 97 was a complete farce. Like a third of Era is down on the game, how come no reviewer was.
A third of era is down on RDR2? What? I've seen some who aren't happy on ERA about the game but most people here seem to be happy with it.

List also reads like some sort of indie promotion guide. (not that I'm against indies though)

Anyway. if you guys don't think this is contrarian at all and a 97 MC scoring game doesn't belong in a top 30 goty list then I'm not sure what to say.
 

Servbot24

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
43,140
Lists should reflect the personality of the person making the list. Attempting to make a list of the objectively best games or whatever is pointless.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
https://www.pastemagazine.com/artic...edemption-2-is-at-its-best-when-im-not-a.html

They weren't particularly fond of it, so including it because other people did seems like the poorest of motivations. Imo the 97 was a complete farce. Like a third of Era is down on the game, how come no reviewer was.
To be fair, you could say the same about Bioshock Infinite, Mass Effect 3 or Skyward Sword. Great reviews that barely touch on what people criticise them for months or years later. Outlying reviews for highly anticipated games with a large fanbase that stray more than a point from the general critical reception seem to get ripped apart by the audience, and on top of that reviews are often rushed to hit an embargo. I wish review sites did more look-backs at popular games a year after release, especially given the shady practice of publishers changing the microtransactions economy after the intial reviews. I suppose that same quickly-dying interest as players move onto the new hotness is why the games press don't do it, it's not like they have an endless budget to pay reviewers to play a fifty-hour game twice when they can barely cover a fraction of what's released as it is.
 

Redcrayon

Patient hunter
On Break
Oct 27, 2017
12,713
UK
The Hipster's Game of the Year List.
Enjoying a gentle indie game over a brace of the latest violent AAA shoot/hack-em-ups isn't necessarily the opinion of someone being deliberately contrarian. There's plenty of posters here that tend to avoid those games too, as Era GOTY ballots will show even if RDR2 and GoW inevitably end up enjoying top slots.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
X, opinions are opinions.

Every game that I've played on this list I would rank high above RDR2, personally, but that's the reason why you won't see me in RDR2 threads. There's a reason why I stopped posting in God of War threads despite continuing to play that game.


People will disagree with me and that's awesome. I want there to be games that people adore that don't exactly click with me.

If I play a game and it doesn't work for me that doesn't mean the game is bad, just that it wasn't what I was looking for.

There are millions of gamers with a huge variety of experiences and tastes, I want them all to be served which is why it's great to see people finding things that they love that specifically appeal to them.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,417
No of course people can find other games better.

But we're talking about 30 games this year that are in their opinion better than RDR2 this year...that's just laughable. Look at some of these games in that list...I mean wtf?

So of course I conclude that this nothing more than being contrarian to garner clicks. Fairly easy logic.


Not imo, especially compared to RDR2.

A third of era is down on RDR2? What? I've seen some who aren't happy on ERA about the game but most people here seem to be happy with it.

List also reads like some sort of indie promotion guide. (not that I'm against indies though)

Anyway. if you guys don't think this is contrarian at all and a 97 MC scoring game doesn't belong in a top 30 goty list then I'm not sure what to say.

If they don't like RDR2 it doesn't belong on the list. It's really as simple as that.

People that are interested in "general consensus" should go to aggregators like MC. No need to read individual lists (not like that kind of person even reads the text of the article since validation seems more important than discovering new stuff or seeing why people like different games).
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Yeah, no.

Not having RDR2 in a top 30 best games of the year list... come on now.

It's clear as day they want to be contrarian so they get clicks, nothing more.

There's a thing called tastes. I'm personally not very interested in RDR2 and if I were to play it's entirely possible it wouldn't get in my top 30 considering I play MANY games. People complain about reviewers streamlining ratings, not using the full rating scales and such, then when a list drops with actual original picks for the best videogames instead of just copy pasting the top 30 from Metacritic it's labeled as clickbait. Unbelieveable.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
Seeing adventure games called 'barely games' because they aren't accompanied by the rattle of gunfire or the clash of swords, and tend to have progression gated by puzzles or simple reading or moving through the world or story just seems like gatekeeping to me. Like a game can only be a game if it stays firmly in the comfort zone of fantasy, violent conflict with skill-at-arms the idealised currency of progress. We don't call romantic comedies 'barely films' because they don't require anyone to punch someone through a building or shrug off multiple gunshot and melee injuries that have conveniently missed all internal organs. If anything, such films used to get snubbed by critics in favour of character pieces, which makes me wonder whether both players and the large publishers that target them like to 'circle the wagons' around the geek playgrounds of gunfights and superheroes and fantasy combat as the defining source material of games, still sore about it being badged as pulp entertainment when we were kids but now resistant to it diversifying beyond that as it's grown into the biggest media industry on the planet.

Great comment, and one I'd use to beat over the heads of people who insist its just about being contrarian. There's nothing more elitist than demanding than only the most expensive, violent games be ensured a place in someones top ten lists.
 

foxdvd

Member
Oct 30, 2017
334
This list feels like clickbait. Respect the Obra dinn pick but Florence #1?? its 45 minute cutscene. Interesting, but barely a game. Also this is the same website that said red dead 2's portrayal of Charles was "redface" and racist so of course it couldn't make their list. Good luck with that, paste...


I agree with this....Florence was...fun...but this choice seems like clickbait...

but Obra is one of the best games of the year. This entire list seems crafted to get the most clicks and repost possibly.
 

Viale

â–˛ Legend â–˛
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,617
RDR 2 nor DQ11 in the top 30 of the year, really? Implying NNK2 is above Astrobot, GoW, monster hunter world and Yakuza? I appreciate that the list is going for different than the usual suspects for their list, but at the same time, a lot of them are the usual suspects for good reason.
 

Mister X

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
2,081
There's a thing called tastes. I'm personally not very interested in RDR2 and if I were to play it's entirely possible it wouldn't get in my top 30 considering I play MANY games. People complain about reviewers streamlining ratings, not using the full rating scales and such, then when a list drops with actual original picks for the best videogames instead of just copy pasting the top 30 from Metacritic it's labeled as clickbait. Unbelieveable.
It's contrarian clickbait or maybe they just have a very, very unique taste.

In a time where online media is begging for clicks, the latter seems unlikely.
 

Deleted member 3058

User requested account closure
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,728
I agree with this....Florence was...fun...but this choice seems like clickbait...

but Obra is one of the best games of the year. This entire list seems crafted to get the most clicks and repost possibly.
If you read what they wrote about Florence it's because they found the game personally empowering and conveying a good message that can work against damaging societal norms.

It's a deeply personal endorsement, which is ultimately, the most valuable IMO.
 

Memento

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,129
Ni no Kuni 2 disappointment of the generation at 11 and RDR2 nowhere to be found. Ok.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,417
I agree with this....Florence was...fun...but this choice seems like clickbait...

but Obra is one of the best games of the year. This entire list seems crafted to get the most clicks and repost possibly.

If a website was interested in clicks it would talk about RDR2. Which this list doesn't.

I guarantee you that talking about indie games gives fuck all for clicks.

Every gaming website will tell you that you get the most clicks this year by talking about Fortnite and RDR2.
 

Rosenkrantz

Member
Jan 17, 2018
4,940
Damn, I guess I need horn-rimmed glasses to fully appreciate greatness of this list, they even have LiS 2 in it despite the game not even being finished yet.

Nothing against people who have a soft spot for artsy games or walking sims that have barely enough interactivity to pass as games, but don't put unfinished product in your GOTY list, it's simply ridiculous.
 
Jul 20, 2018
2,684
Minit is my #1 so far so it's nice to see it where it should be. Based on the games I've played I can't disagree with this at all.

Super excited to play Gris soon. I was blown away the first time I saw it.
 

Gotdatmoney

Member
Oct 28, 2017
14,500
Dragon Ball Fighter Z on there is an awesome inclusion. Feel like its being forgotten. The game is hype as fuck and really fun.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,417
Yeah, no.

People will be like "wow a GOTY list with 30 games WITHOUT RDR2, I have to check that out man".

No they won't. They'll look at the list and post "Why no RDR2" clearly having read none of the article. The only reason this thread is even on page 3 is because it's one the first lists.

Want to do a clickbait list? Put Fortnite, RDR2, GOW, Pokemon let's Go and Spiderman on it in any order and you'll have people arguing for days. Again, Talking about Florence and Obra Dinn doesn't give clicks.
 

mouzone

Member
Oct 30, 2017
241
So they put a pay2skip Ubisoft game but not RDR2.. But Obra Dinn is really interesting.
 

spineduke

Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
8,754
Yeah, no.

People will be like "wow a GOTY list with 30 games WITHOUT RDR2, I have to check that out man".

i guess thats why the article is titled

The 30 Best Videogames of 2018

very effective for getting those anti RDR2 clicks

as we all know, the best strategy for clickbait is to not mention the clickbait in the article header itself, but rather by the slow realization that said title is omitted as you scroll down the list in rage.
 

Cudpug

Member
Nov 9, 2017
3,557
I'm sure they're all great games but it does read a bit like 'let's get some indie or obscure games and elevate then to the top spots so we don't have to give praise to mainstream titles'.