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IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
Lots of gems have dual requirements, you're basically expected to have a decent chunk of all three stats, at least 100+ I'd say, in order to use support or utility stuff. I assume you're fairly low level? Try using a Dex amulet or something, you only need 70 Dex for a level 20 contagion which is basically nothing.

Okay cool. Thanks for the info. I just wasn't really sure so I was sticking to pure int in case the dex requirement would just keep escalating but if it caps out quite low then should be fine. Some dex would open up a lot of new options for me as I keep having to drop stuff because of that. I'm about level 59 so I don't know it that's considered low.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Okay cool. Thanks for the info. I just wasn't really sure so I was sticking to pure int in case the dex requirement would just keep escalating but if it caps out quite low then should be fine. Some dex would open up a lot of new options for me as I keep having to drop stuff because of that. I'm about level 59 so I don't know it that's considered low.
The build I'm working on has the same problem - in the short term as long as you keep an eye on your life and resists (i.e. cap your resists and get life/defence as high as you can) you should still have either slots or crafts that you can help get that stat up. If the passive tree you're following has a little flexibility you could look for dex there too.

I painted myself into a corner by using a belt that has both +dex and +all attributes and it's tough for me to replace it (despite it being otherwise pretty average) because it disables a load of my skills if I remove it! One of the challenges particularly as you pass the points where resists become an issue (i.e. post act 5 and 10) is juggling all of these requirements - I'm still learning how to balance it all on my second character, but I'm slowly getting better at it!

Now if I could just find a way of identifying genuinely good base items things would be a lot easier for me. D:
 

Deleted member 28474

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 31, 2017
6,162
Remember you can always drop a passive point into a stat node and remove it later when your gear is more finalized. I often do that just to push things forward quickly. Just have to be mindful of it.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Remember you can always drop a passive point into a stat node and remove it later when your gear is more finalized. I often do that just to push things forward quickly. Just have to be mindful of it.
Yeah, I always forget this despite having 20 respec points in the bank. There's a +30 that I can take next level (until I have some half decent jewels, I'll just leave one of those off).
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
Now if I could just find a way of identifying genuinely good base items things would be a lot easier for me. D:

Any rare that you find that increases the stats of the attributes (or increase some of the stats, and you can master craft another on) your build relies on is a "good" item, , as for bases, if you're playing SSF, anything that you can scour down (that has an ilvl higher than the item you are using) and craft up into something that will improve the build.

IME for that build, the best bang for buck you can get with crafting is for jewels, a few good abyss jewels can make a huge difference.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,614
Man 3.7 can't come soon enough. Haven't had such a long hiatus from PoE in a while... need that melee buffs asap!

I better see some Raider juice in there.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Any rare that you find that increases the stats of the attributes (or increase some of the stats, and you can master craft another on) your build relies on is a "good" item, , as for bases, if you're playing SSF, anything that you can scour down (that has an ilvl higher than the item you are using) and craft up into something that will improve the build.

IME for that build, the best bang for buck you can get with crafting is for jewels, a few good abyss jewels can make a huge difference.
Thanks for this. Can I scour abyss jewels the same as other items of gear?
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Yeah I'm following it for this build.

I need to start building some currency as my next step it seems! Gonna farm a Tabula first though.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
I've actually made some pretty great strides in the rest of my gear while just farming the blood aqueducts to be honest - over 4k life and just under 1k ES. How do you work out the EHP figure? Is it just life + ES + armour + evasion or is it not that simple?

The only thing I'm not getting through farming here are Humility cards. D:
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,988
Texas
The following is my understanding after at least a thousand hours of play, so it's likely to be only partially correct (lol). You might want to look up more info.

EHP is generally ES or HP(+ MP if you have MoM).

The calc isn't as simple for hybrid builds. ES is less strong in a hybrid build if you don't have good ES regen or a big enough pool for leech to be effective. It will help mitigate the first few moments of an encounter, but you'll generally not have any ES after that first hit because you'll be leeching or regenerating life instead of ES. This makes your real EHP dependent only on your life (and mana if MoM) for the majority of difficult encounters.

Defenses are generally discussed separately from EHP. Your EHP is the absolute amount of damage you can take before you die, defenses are how you mitigate damage before it hits your EHP.

Armor reduces how hard you are hit after the enemy lands the hit, and it's less effective for harder hits. It's in a pretty bad place right now due to how it works on difficult fights or elemental damage.

Evasion reduces the chance an enemy hits you at all. It's an all-or-nothing mitigation that doesn't affect the actual damage you'll take from an attack. Iirc it has a hidden mechanic that, within a short time frame, reduces your effective evasion each time an enemy misses... Meaning that eventually you'll get hit if you give the enemy enough chances. Evasion is pretty strong, especially with Trickster and how you can use it to scale your EHP (ES).

ES is what it says, a shield of energy that blocks damage (except chaos damage) before it hits your health. This is probably the strongest defense, especially when combined with certain ascendancies, passives, and items. It's so ubiquitous and effective that it's generally directly added to EHP, unless you haven't built around it. I expect some nerfs in the near future.

Avoidance/Dodge is another defensive layer, generally available from items, acrobatics keystones, and ascendancies. Dodge is similar to Evasion, but IIRC it doesn't have a "recently dodged reduction" mechanic like Evasion. You roll to dodge, then roll to evade. The mechanics are very powerful together. Combined with Enfeeble and Blind, a large amount of Dodge and Evasion can provide huge defensive gains. However, you'll still get chunked pretty hard if you actually do get hit without other mitigations.

Mind Over Matter is another extremely effective defensive layer. With MoM, 30% of damage is taken from your unreserved Mana pool. Not only do you get more EHP (equal to your unreserved Mana up to 30% of your health pool), but you also get the benefits of Mana regen. Effectively, your Mana regen acts similar to life regen to keep you alive.
 
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Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Thanks for the explanation. :-)

I generally look for ES, but the current build is more strength based so armour is relatively high. I guess once I have more currency I should be able to roll the sockets I need to int based gear.

One of the passive sections in the build mentions ES on shield, but when I checked the gear of the guy that put the build together he seemed to be mostly armour so I wasn't sure where to go.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
It's hard for me to imagine not going Trickster again. Tankiest build I've ever played (10.5K ES, 50% evasion, 10/20% dodge, fortify).. dying is a rarity, which in PoE, is by far the most satisfying way to play IMO.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Server problems it seems. Game booted me and now can't connect again - PS4 is online and PSN itself seems okay.

EDIT: Back in
 

yagal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,166
Stupid fat hobbits filter, but I've started to modify it.

What a name lol. Tried it for a couple of minutes. I have a sound when a 4 links drop, good, but the gems at the beginning (flamebalz, arcane surge) are filtered ... can live with that

It's hard for me to imagine not going Trickster again. Tankiest build I've ever played (10.5K ES, 50% evasion, 10/20% dodge, fortify).. dying is a rarity, which in PoE, is by far the most satisfying way to play IMO.

I wonder if they will nerf the Trickster and the Occultist
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,988
Texas
I wonder if they will nerf the Trickster and the Occultist
I'd be shocked if they didn't. I expect the chaos as extra node to get nerfed to 15%. Occultist regen and flat ES is also a bit nutty.

Really though I just hope they buff life and other ascendancies to make them competitive instead of nerfing ES to useless territory like they did post beach.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,871
I'll still play Trickster even after a nerf. It was strong before all of the crazy buffs and I don't think they'll remove its new ability to generate frenzy and power charges during boss fights that lack things to kill which a huge reason I started playing the Ascendancy more now.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,898
What a name lol. Tried it for a couple of minutes. I have a sound when a 4 links drop, good, but the gems at the beginning (flamebalz, arcane surge) are filtered ... can live with that



I wonder if they will nerf the Trickster and the Occultist
It's stupid easy to modify things like that in filters. In section OA Race Overrides there is a gem section and it should look something like this

Show
Class "Gem"
BaseType "Chance to Bleed" "Double Strike" "Viper Strike" "Heavy Strike" "Burning Arrow" "Onslaught" "Pierce" "Ground Slam" "Shrapnel Shot" "Lesser Poison Support" "Fireball" "Spectral Throw"

just add "Arcane Surge" so it should look like this

Show
Class "Gem"
BaseType "Chance to Bleed" "Double Strike" "Viper Strike" "Heavy Strike" "Burning Arrow" "Onslaught" "Pierce" "Ground Slam" "Shrapnel Shot" "Lesser Poison Support" "Fireball" "Spectral Throw" "Arcane Surge"

And now it will show arcane surge. I would suggest learning a little bit about filters and such. Especially if you are trying to go fast since everyone has their own individual preferences for filters and there is no best racing filter. Many people just grab a filter to use as a base and then customize them on their own. Modifying item sounds and colors is also super easy.

Edit: Here's a link to my slightly modified FatHobbitFilter base. I'm still in the process of playing around with it, and won't have a final filter for some time.

https://pastebin.com/Lgth8F1U
 
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Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,614
They rarely directly nerf Ascendancies.

Issue here isn't Trickster or Occultist... it's Energy Shield on gear. Energy shield values are super inflated... I don't know why we are back to the days of 12K+ ES values again when that was the reason why CI ES was nerfed to begin with!

It's wack to me that most life based builds are going around with 6-7K Life while ES builds are going around with like 10k-12K ES. And these days ES sustain/regen/leeching is about as good as life based sustain, only exception is Slayer leech (which by the way got nerfed recently).

Trickster/Occultist at 12K ES is a completely different beast from Trickster/Occultist at 7K ES top end. Yes Trickster and Occultist are strong defensively but that's their point... there are other Ascendancies out there that can deal more damage or can be faster (like Deadeye) but that's the balancing act.


That said I don't see them being touched next league. It's just a big can of worm and they just recently buffed spell casters so high so having Elementalist/Occultist/Trickster/Inquisitor being top 4 classes in the game is by DESIGN. If after the 3.7 league most of these spellcaster classes are still dominating the meta, then they will look closely at them. I would rather have the Life based classes be brought up to this power level instead so that there is more survivability around. Power creep in survivability has really impacted these two classes and Juggernaut, I want to see survivability being balanced out across other classes as well.
 

IvorB

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,995
The build I'm working on has the same problem - in the short term as long as you keep an eye on your life and resists (i.e. cap your resists and get life/defence as high as you can) you should still have either slots or crafts that you can help get that stat up. If the passive tree you're following has a little flexibility you could look for dex there too.

I painted myself into a corner by using a belt that has both +dex and +all attributes and it's tough for me to replace it (despite it being otherwise pretty average) because it disables a load of my skills if I remove it! One of the challenges particularly as you pass the points where resists become an issue (i.e. post act 5 and 10) is juggling all of these requirements - I'm still learning how to balance it all on my second character, but I'm slowly getting better at it!

Now if I could just find a way of identifying genuinely good base items things would be a lot easier for me. D:

I think there was a +30 dex/str node near me on the sphere grid so I'll probably grab that. I don't like relying on equipment to keep my core stills active for the reason that you just gave.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,988
Texas
Yeah, GGG has spent years trying to balance es and it's still better than life by a considerable margin. Just boost life instead and work from there.
Imagine if Blood Magic had good tradeoffs for more than just niche hipster builds. If it had flat and % life behind it, plus increased regen or something. That would be pretty cool.

Overall though, ES is too strong because there are too many ways to ignore its downside of needing to not take damage for a while before recharge.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,614
Also pure physical builds are trash and those are the ones that are most synergistic with life based builds. Meanwhile pure Chaos or pure elemental builds are godlike.

It seems Bex shadow confirmed that Synthesis isnt going core in 3.7. There was supposed to be a Synthesis manifesto but they forego it because its not going core.

IMO it should eventualky go core but with some tweak. GGG needs to sit on it for a bit. The crafting system is cool, at least that much should be retained in the core game.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
Also pure physical builds are trash and those are the ones that are most synergistic with life based builds. Meanwhile pure Chaos or pure elemental builds are godlike.

It seems Bex shadow confirmed that Synthesis isnt going core in 3.7. There was supposed to be a Synthesis manifesto but they forego it because its not going core.

IMO it should eventualky go core but with some tweak. GGG needs to sit on it for a bit. The crafting system is cool, at least that much should be retained in the core game.
So no more synth items like onslaught boots then I take it?
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,988
Texas
So no more synth items like onslaught boots then I take it?
Not for a while. Honestly the crafting was a cool concept but was terribly implemented. They need to remove the obfuscation of the outcome from the game and include some basic tooltips and a UI that tells you what you need to get the result you want. Needing a website to figure it out sucked, and it made it very hard to know if you had a good fractured item.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
I'll be happy with it gone and replaced by a simpler mechanic next league purely because I'm still getting my head around everything else in the game as a newcomer. Any trimming around the edges is very welcome!
 

Baliis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
539
Also pure physical builds are trash and those are the ones that are most synergistic with life based builds. Meanwhile pure Chaos or pure elemental builds are godlike.

It seems Bex shadow confirmed that Synthesis isnt going core in 3.7. There was supposed to be a Synthesis manifesto but they forego it because its not going core.

IMO it should eventualky go core but with some tweak. GGG needs to sit on it for a bit. The crafting system is cool, at least that much should be retained in the core game.

Chris said in his big Reddit post a couple weeks back that it wasn't going core.

I wouldn't mind seeing it come back in some form, but as something more like delve where I can just kinda run it and occasionally get rewards rather than trying to micro manage pieces and how they fit together. Something to help withanaging fractured items rather than holding on to the good ones I might want to try to use some day would be cool.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
I'd take anything over Carrion Crow right now.

EDIT: as usual complaining on the internet does the trick.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Getting towards my last run of the night before I was going to quit I had my last Humility drop... then shortly afterwards I had a simple robe unique drop! D:

Fortunately it wasn't the Tabula, otherwise I'd have been fuming!
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,614
They took a break from Bestiary and brought it back as well. Wouldnt be too worried to be honest, they find solid ways to reuse past content. Nothing truly gets wasted.
 

Surfinn

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
28,590
USA
They took a break from Bestiary and brought it back as well. Wouldnt be too worried to be honest, they find solid ways to reuse past content. Nothing truly gets wasted.
They really need to streamline synergy IMO. Too much time figuring out what the fuck is good or trash, piecing stuff together, stringing memories for lackluster rewards, etc.

And maybe actually make synthesizing items valuable to players who don't have 5 web pages up/500 exalts to burn in order to even get good items to use.
 

danowat

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,783
Does elder influence on the atlas have a cap? I am running connected shaper influence maps and the elder influence isn't following.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
Found a Soulrend build and while I thought it was pretty weak in the first few levels, once your chaos damage starts to pick up and you get the double curse thing, clear speed is bonkers.

My only issue is with the boss health bars having the shield overlayed, sometimes its hard to see how much damage you have done since chaos ignores shield.
 

zon

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,423
Also pure physical builds are trash and those are the ones that are most synergistic with life based builds. Meanwhile pure Chaos or pure elemental builds are godlike.

It seems Bex shadow confirmed that Synthesis isnt going core in 3.7. There was supposed to be a Synthesis manifesto but they forego it because its not going core.

IMO it should eventualky go core but with some tweak. GGG needs to sit on it for a bit. The crafting system is cool, at least that much should be retained in the core game.

Synthesis in it's current form is worse than all the other content that's available in the game right now. GGG definitely need to rework a lot of it before introducing anything into the core game.
 

yagal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,166
And now it will show arcane surge. I would suggest learning a little bit about filters and such. Especially if you are trying to go fast since everyone has their own individual preferences for filters and there is no best racing filter. Many people just grab a filter to use as a base and then customize them on their own. Modifying item sounds and colors is also super easy.

Edit: Here's a link to my slightly modified FatHobbitFilter base. I'm still in the process of playing around with it, and won't have a final filter for some time.

https://pastebin.com/Lgth8F1U

Do you have a little tuto, maybe I'm doing it wrong because it's not working

I was sick, wasn't able to download your custom filter in time, the link is dead
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,871
Divine Ire might be another new favorite spell. It kind of plays a lot like a melee build with an aggressive "jump into large groups of monsters and they explode" playstyle, which is part of why it is so much fun.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Divine Ire might be another new favorite spell. It kind of plays a lot like a melee build with an aggressive "jump into large groups of monsters and they explode" playstyle, which is part of why it is so much fun.
I'm definitely going to try and find a build for it next league, hopefully it doesn't get hit hard with rebalancing.
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
Ugh, starting to notice the lag and frame drops on this build now - cost me a fair few deaths tonight. It's definitely not as bad as the WO build I played last time but when it gets busy sometimes it doesn't even register button presses. If I leap slam everywhere (which I love doing) the game often pulls me back too. :/
 

Number45

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,038
^^ I'm 99% sure they don't.

EDIT: Also, just wanna say it seems impossible to roll 3 reds and a blue from an exclusively int based item. I saw one roll with no blues (3 greens and a red) but otherwise the most reds I had was 2... in about 300 attempts (because why not).
 
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