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Path of Exile 3.0+ |OT| To Oriath, Xbox Live, and Beyond

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,112
The one thing that really excites me about POE2 is all the new bosses and tilesets for maps

They're slowly going to be getting to the stage where there'd be unique tilesets and mechanically unique bosses for every map.
 

PurpleRainz

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,955
I got to act 2 and it started with my character saying something like " Oh a jungle there are many places for death to hide here" And two seconds later I was attacked by a horde of angry monkeys I have played through act 1-3 before but I'd forgotten about the monkeys it was kinda jarring to go from zombies and sea monsters to evil monkeys it just kinda threw me off but later on I fought a giant spider and those monkeys drop some good loot I got 4 unique items.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
They may not roll in the new bosses into maps in 4.0 straight away. They didn't do that with 3.0 when we had all those new bosses, we had to wait for the end game War of the Atlas revamp. So maybe for 4.1 when they have another end game overhaul.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,773
They may not roll in the new bosses into maps in 4.0 straight away. They didn't do that with 3.0 when we had all those new bosses, we had to wait for the end game War of the Atlas revamp. So maybe for 4.1 when they have another end game overhaul.
This is what I suspect. With Poe2 there is going to be a change to mapping. At least that's my conspiracy theory, and the end game is going to be different.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
GGG thinks of shit like years in advance. They probably have ideas for PoE 3 already.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
876
There were 3.0 tilesets in mapping before 3.0 actually came out (just no 3.0 bosses or enemies), though that doesn't mean they'll necessarily do that again for 4.0 tilesets.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
They are going to redo the skill tree for PoE 2 as well though it wasn't ready for Exilecon.

I wonder if there is just a straight up 2nd skill tree like they have for Ascendancies. As in there is Skill Tree 1 from PoE 1 and a skill tree 2 for PoE 2 based on which character you pick. That would be pretty ballsy as well.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,773
They are going to redo the skill tree for PoE 2 as well though it wasn't ready for Exilecon.

I wonder if there is just a straight up 2nd skill tree like they have for Ascendancies. As in there is Skill Tree 1 from PoE 1 and a skill tree 2 for PoE 2 based on which character you pick. That would be pretty ballsy as well.
Not sure about this. One of the things they are working on is keeping complexity, but making it easier for new players. Don't think that would be new player friendly. Really interested in what they come up with though.
 

DopeyFish

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,112
They may not roll in the new bosses into maps in 4.0 straight away. They didn't do that with 3.0 when we had all those new bosses, we had to wait for the end game War of the Atlas revamp. So maybe for 4.1 when they have another end game overhaul.
you may not see the big bosses but i'd say the lower bosses are likely
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,592
Spoilers: an entire act of POE2 is all maps that are like primordial blocks
Bosses with 5 forced phases and long dialog too
 

Merkunt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
400
They said they wanted to move away from brine king like situations, but I could see add phases being more prevalent.
 

Shugga

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,592
Phases are fine just cut the goddamn 30s transitions and monologues between them for fuck's saaaaake they make mapping so much worse
 

Luthor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,530
US, California
Quite a few changes coming to how the Atlas will work with Conquerors.

Key takeaways:

- Shaper and Elder influence no longer found on the Atlas itself but can still obtain items in other ways
- Shaper Guardians no longer on Atlas; found from Zana missions
- Elder and Shaper Orbs will no longer be a thing and go poof, same with Unshaping Orbs and Cartographer's Seals
- Sextants now applied to Watchstones, not maps themselves and affect the entire region
- Possible to have a region completely upgraded to t14-t16
- We'll now start in the center and the Atlas will have 8 regions
- Get that Celestial hideout now as they say it'll probably be more difficult and expensive to run Shaper compared to today

The Atlas of Worlds will be undergoing a number of changes in the Conquerors of the Atlas expansion. Today, we're going to detail several new systems and clarify what will happen to any existing systems affected by these changes.

The first thing that you'll notice when opening your Atlas that you no longer start at the corners, where the Tier 1 maps were previously. Instead, you'll now be starting next to the map device in the centre of the Atlas. The Zana questline in which you pursue the Shaper and Elder throughout the Atlas has been replaced with a brand new story immediately following those events.

The Atlas has been divided up into eight regions. As you play through each region, completing maps as you go, you'll have the opportunity to fight new endgame bosses, who take up a Citadel on a specific map within a region. Upon defeating these bosses, they will drop a Watchstone. Watchstones can be socketed into your Atlas in any region of your choosing. Upon socketing a Watchstone, the associated region will be upgraded, increasing the tier of all Maps within that region and revealing previously hidden maps. Defeat each of the Conquerors and you'll be able to fully upgrade any given region, resulting in every map in that region ranging from tier 14 to tier 16. Repeatedly defeating conquerors will drop additional Watchstones, eventually allowing you to upgrade all eight regions. One neat result of this is that this means that all Unique maps will be able to drop at much higher tiers than previously possible.

Sextants are no longer applied to individual maps on your Atlas. Instead, sextants are applied to Watchstones and will affect whichever region that Watchstone is currently socketed into. This means that each region can be affected by up to four sextants at any one time. You will also have the ability to move Watchstones between regions freely. Additionally, sextant modifiers are no longer shared between one another. Instead, Apprentice, Journeyman and Master Cartographer's Sextants each have their own pool of modifiers that they can apply to maps. Naturally, the rarer the sextant, the higher quality of modifiers it can apply.

Shaper and Elder influence are no longer found on your Atlas. Shaper and Elder items will still be accessible through their usual means such as some league rewards, divination cards and drops from the Shaper and Elder encounters and Guardians. You will occasionally be able to obtain maps that have Shaper and Elder influence through the use of Scarabs, as well as maps that have a modifier which applies influence to the area. Shaper's Strongholds will also cease to exist. Shaper's Orbs and Elder's Orb will no longer be obtainable and existing orbs will be destroyed. Unshaping Orbs and Cartographer's Seals will no longer be usable.

Shaper Guardian Maps are no longer found on the Atlas. Instead, you will be able to find them through Zana missions. They will continue to drop their unique items and fragments. Combining each of the Shaper Fragments will continue to open portals to The Shaper's Realm. If you're interested in obtaining the Celestial Hideout, you'll want to do so before these changes, as access to the Shaper encounter is likely to be more difficult and expensive than it is currently.

Elder Guardians and The Elder will occasionally replace the Map boss of various Zana mission maps. Both Shaper and Elder will have a chance to drop fragments. Combining these fragments will open portals to the Uber Elder encounter.
 
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Kentsui

Member
Oct 26, 2017
366
Well let's hope I find someone willing to share that Celestial hideout for a reasonable price until league ends xD prices are likely to explode ....
 

Greenpaint

Member
Oct 30, 2017
578
Quite a few changes coming to how the Atlas will work with Conquerors.

Key takeaways:

- Shaper and Elder influence no longer found on the Atlas itself but can still obtain items in other ways
- Shaper Guardians no longer on Atlas; found from Zana missions
- Elder and Shaper Orbs will no longer be a thing and go poof, same with Unshaping Orbs and Cartographer's Seals
- Sextants now applied to Watchstones, not maps themselves and affect the entire region
- Possible to have a region completely upgraded to t14-t16
- We'll now start in the center and the Atlas will have 4 regions
- Get that Celestial hideout now as they say it'll probably be more difficult and expensive to run Shaper compared to today
Good summary, but I think they mentioned eight regions.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,538
I do hope in the sequel they address the feature creep that now dominates the game. I used to like it when a league feature became a part of the basic game but at a rather level, but now fee they’ve gone way too far with that. There are now SO many different things going on at the end of the game, and because they are all rare it’s unlikely you’ll ever actually complete any of them or get the rewards. Instead you just get a few encounters each league that don’t result in anything because you aren’t playing 1000 hours a league.

They need to be better about allowing players to focus on which optional end game grind they want to do. Rather than throw all of them at a a player and have none actually result in anything.
 

Luthor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,530
US, California

Kiekura

Member
Mar 23, 2018
1,738
How much should i pay for Storm Cloud bow in PS4 league? Sorry, there is so much to learn on this game.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
1 chaos is fine but I don't know how PS4 economy is generally. I know items there are pricier than on PC.

Just read over the Atlas changes that GGG put out. Here are my takeaways:

*Sextants having different mods based on tier makes red sextants far more valuable. I expect them to he pricier though there is a possibility that they aren't that much better than yellow sextants. There is no explanation given as to if white sextants can influence a region which has red maps, I am assuming now they can since they will give worse mods anyway.

*Guardians, Shaper and Uber Elder will definitely be Rarer but I think regular Elder plus Guardian shouldn't be that bad. Most people don't set up Atlas to farm Guardians plus regular Elders which means in this new system you will have more chances to fight them. This actually means more 2 mod Watcher Eyes in the market as opposed to before but 3 mod Watcher Eyes will be very rare. Also interesting to note that you can now buy an Uber Elder fight by purchasing that key fragments to the fight. So all in all I don't think it's that bad but stuff like Dying Sun will still be a lot more expensive.

*It's now not really possible to chain farm a single map because you can't unshape maps. There is also no Elder ping pongs, blocks or strongholds. And by chain farm I mean self sustain a single type of map, you can still just buy the maps you want to run. Some maps won't be tier 16 so that's going to be interesting to see how that works.

*Maps can be influenced by Shaper/Elder through Scarabs and of course through Zana missions. This is the primary way of acquiring Shaper/Elder items. This makes those Scarabs a lot more lucrative.

*Unique maps being able to spawn at higher levels going to be massive. Stuff like Cowards Trials, Obas Cursed grove and Poorjoys going to be insane for leveling. Same for Atziris Vault dropping tier 16 items.

*Curious to see how Sextants interact with watchstones. Can you place sextants on watchatones? If so what happens when you remove the watch stones? There is a lot of potential for sextant blocking here if it works like I think it does but it probably doesn't so its purely speculative.


Going to be a huge change to end game mapping.
 

danowat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,255
Ballistas almost sound like tower defense towers now, shame they aren't upgradable in game some way!
 

Codosbuya

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,019
Soooo Ballista totems are considered as Attacks... Impale Shrapnel Ballista Ancestral Bond Champion incoming.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
Soooo Ballista totems are considered as Attacks... Impale Shrapnel Ballista Ancestral Bond Champion incoming.
Yeah I expect a solid Champion build to come out of these Ballistas.

Though we aren't getting a Ballista focused Ascendsncy yet so I don't expect Ballistas to be absurd.

I also wouldn't go Ancestral Bond with Ballistas (assuming it even works with Ballistas). Due to routing and most of the Ballista nodes will be near Ranger tree but mostly because you get 3 Ballistas by default and in that side of skill tree you can get more sources of Ballista anyway.
 
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Codosbuya

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,019
Yeah I expect a solid Champion build to come out of these Ballistas.

Though we aren't getting a Ballista focused Ascendsncy yet so I don't expect Ballistas to be absurd.

I also wouldn't go Ancestral Bond with Ballistas (assuming it even works with Ballistas). Due to routing and most of the Ballista nodes will be near Ranger tree but mostly because you get 3 Ballistas by default and in that side of skill tree you can get more sources of Ballista anyway.
And you cant exploit the Champion's Impale effects since Ancestral Bond nullifies your damage... I was thinking in using Bladestorm to proc Impales especially for bosses. Then you just kite the enemies and let the Ballistas to do the job while refreshing the Bladestorms.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
And you cant exploit the Champion's Impale effects since Ancestral Bond nullifies your damage... I was thinking in using Bladestorm to proc Impales especially for bosses. Then you just kite the enemies and let the Ballistas to do the job while refreshing the Bladestorms.
I think on Champion you would use Bow and use the new Ensnare skill to debuff enemies for higher damage. Since it's probably going to be a physical attack, it can be used to get some Impale procs as well.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
876
New video showing some of the "Plus" support gems.

Multistrike+ adds an extra attack repeat (took me a moment to realize, even after they made the attack speed super slow to allow you to count the attacks). GMP+ is an extra projectile.

Spell Cascade+ works a bit differently though. It places the AoEs in a group instead of a line, so it effectively gives quite a bit of AoE to whatever you are casting with it.

They shown off how a Frost Bolt + Ice Nova setup using GMP+ and Spell Cascade+ works with these supports.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
Not a fan of some of these.

Cold Penetration and Ele Damage are just bigger numbers. Last thing GMP and MS needed were +1, especially MS (definitely didn't need 4 attacks on MS). It doesn't even bring it back to old MS attack speed values

New Spell Cascade is good though.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
876
Agreed, Spell Cascade+ looked like something fun to make an effective build out of, but Multistrike+ and GMP+ looked like they could be Labyrinth helm enchants in terms of what they provide.
 

Surfinn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,061
USA
IMO, any "plus" gems that just increase numbers is a slippery slope for bad design philosophy. I think they should be actively changing the nature of the skills themselves, otherwise you start dipping into D3 "double it" territory.

That said, we'll see how the atlas looks. I'm assuming monster life/damage will compensate anyways.
 

Orgun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
156
Omg I nearly missed an entire league! I completely missed the Blight stuff, time to quickly make a character and try it out heh
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
IMO, any "plus" gems that just increase numbers is a slippery slope for bad design philosophy. I think they should be actively changing the nature of the skills themselves, otherwise you start dipping into D3 "double it" territory.

That said, we'll see how the atlas looks. I'm assuming monster life/damage will compensate anyways.
I think they said monster life rebalance would be coming in 4.0 not in 3.9. I could be wrong on that though they did say the new bosses will be tougher.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,773
At some point GGG is not only going to have to re balance monster life, but gem damage levels and address the speed meta as well. Game can't be played this fast forever since it just produces far too many problems overall, and is going to be impossible to balance around.
I think they said monster life rebalance would be coming in 4.0 not in 3.9. I could be wrong on that though they did say the new bosses will be tougher.
Going to be addressed in 3.9 as well.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
5,903
They said they will address it in PoE 2 which I imagine is going to have big changes coming all around.

I wonder if they stick with their direction on Ascendancies. What they showed at the panel was far less stat bloat on Ascendancy nodes and more focus on unique attributes of the nodes. Something like that dramatically lowers the power level of characters in the game.

They have been increasing monster HP for a while now but every time it's only a factor for early maps and then characters get geared and start one tapping Rare/Magic packs from a screen away.

This is not an easy issue to fix though. A lot of people loving going turbo mode and annihilating maps.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
876
Anyone know how splitting an item works exactly? I can only find information talking about what it won't split (being used to do things like duplicate six linked items and so forth), but does it just pick half of the modifiers randomly?
 

Bladelaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,061
This is not an easy issue to fix though. A lot of people loving going turbo mode and annihilating maps.
They mentioned something that stuck out to me during ExileCon. During one of the Q&A's Chris (I think) mentioned a specific Marvel Heroes patch that slowed the game down tremendously. Basically any "dash" powers were given charges similar to Flame Dash in POE and any "flight/swing/gap clear" style powers were given a wind-up animation. Before this patch you could reliably avoid nearly every attack if you were on the ball enough and weren't stuck in an existing animation. You could zip from one end of a zone to the other in seconds and in fact a couple achievements basically required it. After the patch you'd blow through your charges and slowly walk while waiting for recharges, or get killed because your flight was still charging. It went from an incredibly satisfying and responsive ARPG with some MMO elements, to just another ARPG. It was slower, the gear hunt wasn't interesting, and once you leveled a hero you were kind of done.

Chris recognized that was when the tide on the game really turned. There was already some shaky relations between the players and devs but that change was almost universally hated even if, as Chris stated, was healthier for the game from a balance perspective. For my part, I love zooming around. Whirling blades is by far my favorite way to move, its lack of gap closing being the biggest bummer about it. I can get over losing some attack speed, but I won't compromise on mobility. It feels too good and taking it away after getting used to it just feels bad. I'm not sure how you solve the difficulty problem/power creep without addressing it and I hope they come up with a clever solution. It'd be nice to have end game be something besides one-hit-kills outside of significantly telegraphed hits (Elder ring, shaper slam/bullet hell, etc).
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
5,903
There is a way to make the game slower without making the player slower. Anytime they increased monster HP hardly anyone complained because it doesn't make the player move slower or attack slower.

That said a lot of people hated the Multistrike change even though it does more damage now, it feels worse because it's slower.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
876
I would be okay if they made acts the challenging part of the game, because that is when you aren't getting a lot of crazy resources just yet and things like Tabula aren't going to stand out nearly as much in 4.0, so they could balance those for all of the skill gems we've gotten since the start of the game.. and then let mapping be the part of the game that goes off the rails and becomes broken.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,061
There is a way to make the game slower without making the player slower. Anytime they increased monster HP hardly anyone complained because it doesn't make the player move slower or attack slower.

That said a lot of people hated the Multistrike change even though it does more damage now, it feels worse because it's slower.
Yeah, that can work. They seem to be doing the whole "more HP monsters" thing gradually. I think 3.7 had blue and yellow mobs have more hp/damage and reward more XP. I get why people hated the multistrike change, I'm on the other end of that personally but I get it. Being able to cancel out of it fixed my only problem with it, so slowing it down didn't really bother me.

"Feel" has got to be the hardest part of game design. I'm glad they went with the "make it do something cool" approach to the Support Plus gems instead of just bumping the numbers. I think the games strengths are in the versatility of the Skill Gem system and anything that introduces new wrinkles to that is welcome.

They have a ton of interesting problems to solve, like making the game more accessible without compromising difficulty and balance, the ongoing battle with technical issues at league launch, a whole new campaign, etc. I can be patient and as long as I'm having fun playing the game, I'll continue to do so. GGG at ExileCon was refreshingly honest and put a lot of these challenges into perspective.
 

Greenpaint

Member
Oct 30, 2017
578
I wonder if game could be "slowed down" without actually slowing things down by introducing mechanics that require player to pay attention (for whatever reason). After certain character speed / killing speed the mechanic would become too much for the players attention span, acting like a natural limiter. Player would feel limited by his/hers own abilities, rather than by an arbitrary number that was increased by devs.

I'm not sure what this mechanic could be though.
 

Bladelaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,061
I wonder if game could be "slowed down" without actually slowing things down by introducing mechanics that require player to pay attention (for whatever reason). After certain character speed / killing speed the mechanic would become too much for the players attention span, acting like a natural limiter. Player would feel limited by his/hers own abilities, rather than by an arbitrary number that was increased by devs.

I'm not sure what this mechanic could be though.
Honestly the "traps" version of the Izaro fight is a good example of this. It's just DPS is in such a state that he basically dies immediately so you can't really "explore the space". Getting your hits in while running around blades/darts/fire/Izaro's attacks is super engaging and if you're at the recommended spec for it really challenging. If he had more HP to survive more than the initial alpha strike I think the fight would rank high up on the tough-but-fair index.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,903
They don't just need to slow down players, they need to make incoming damage more consistent and not a one shot fest.
Chris Wilson likes that though so I doubt that would change.

They should change how it scales though. As in there is no build up from "I am face tanking everything in the game" to "random one shot from mob." I know why it happens, it's because of various map modifiers, monster auras and other factors that can all pile up and create a situation that results in very high damage suddenly that is impossible to account for. This should change but I don't know how to make this change without making the game even more of a joke.

This is something Diablo 3 does better. When you go up in Greater Rifts there is a clear progression in how tanky enemies are and how much damage you receive from them. In POE, even in tier 16 maps you are still one shooting mobs same as tier 1 but you can get one shot in tier 10 as easily as in a tier 16.

I think the two fixes they can make is on extremes. Unbuffed regular monster damage should be higher in average so you can get a better sense of your character's defense against enemies and then spike from added mods should be lower. So say it takes 5 monster hits now to kill you. With bluffs and crits that number goes to 3. Currently the system is such that it would take 8 hits from a monster to kill you normally but if they are buffed up they can one shot you. Exaggerated math and circumstances but it illustrates the point.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,053
Texas
Chris Wilson likes that though so I doubt that would change.

They should change how it scales though. As in there is no build up from "I am face tanking everything in the game" to "random one shot from mob." I know why it happens, it's because of various map modifiers, monster auras and other factors that can all pile up and create a situation that results in very high damage suddenly that is impossible to account for. This should change but I don't know how to make this change without making the game even more of a joke.

This is something Diablo 3 does better. When you go up in Greater Rifts there is a clear progression in how tanky enemies are and how much damage you receive from them. In POE, even in tier 16 maps you are still one shooting mobs same as tier 1 but you can get one shot in tier 10 as easily as in a tier 16.

I think the two fixes they can make is on extremes. Unbuffed regular monster damage should be higher in average so you can get a better sense of your character's defense against enemies and then spike from added mods should be lower. So say it takes 5 monster hits now to kill you. With bluffs and crits that number goes to 3. Currently the system is such that it would take 8 hits from a monster to kill you normally but if they are buffed up they can one shot you. Exaggerated math and circumstances but it illustrates the point.
That sounds like a great solution. Ramp up general damage so you're consistently in more danger and tune down the spikes a bit to force players to build more to the content and give some warning when they've entered content they aren't ready for.

I don't want PoE to be as slow as GD, but GD is pretty good about how it handles incoming damage. You have time to react and smart play can take you into harder content, but if you are not properly geared you cannot overcome the damage. Even so, one shots are super rare.
 

Mamoniadas

Member
Oct 25, 2017
604
I, for one, love moving really really fast. the absurdity makes me smile like no other and will be absolutely heartbroken if they dont let me zoom across maps.