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Dahbomb

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Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,999
So I have been wondering about the new skills system in PoE 2. It's such a game changer trying to wrap your head around especially for people who have been playing the game for 5+ years. Even though it's far from being releases that hasn't stopped me from theory crafting my old builds to the new system. One of my favorite builds is the Raider Frostblades. Very fast, great clear speed but lacks in single target and damage mitigation though has a ton of avoidance. So of course this would be the first build I would try to emulate on to the new system.

Taking into consideration that we can now have 9 6 links in the build, this is what the new Frost Blade can look like.

Clear Skill:
Frostblades - Ancestral Call - Ice Bite - Added Cold Damage - Multistrike - Weapon Elemental Damage

Single Target:
Blade Flurry - Added Cold damage/Cold Penetration - Ice Bite - Hypothermia - Weapon Elemental damage - Inspiration

Ancestral Protector:
Ancestral Protector - Multiple Totem Support - Weapon elemental damage - Faster Attacks - Added Cold Damage - Cold Penetration or Hypothermia

CWDT set up:
Steelskin - Temporal Chains/Enfeeble/Frostbite - Lightning Golem/Ice Golem - Frost Bomb - Cold Snap

Vortex
Increased Duration - Bonechill - Spell Cascade - Increased Area - Blind

Enlighten (as a meta skill, for auras)
Hatred - Herald of Ice - Precision - Arctic Armor

Whirling Blades (movement skill)
Fortify - Faster Attacks - Blood Magic - Power Charge on Crit - Culling Strike

Blood Rage/Vaal Haste/Vaal Grace
Not sure how to spread these, maybe Increased Duration can be a meta skill and I can place all 3 of these in there. Otherwise I will just use Blood Ragw with Increased Durarion.

Vaal Double Strike (main damage Vaal skill)
Weapon Elemental Damage Attack - Added Cold Damage - Hypothermia - Cold Penetration - Ruthless


When coming up with the build I realized a few things very quickly:

*It's easy to get multiple 6 link Vaal skills that you can pop to delete bosses. In this build I only used Vaal Double Strike but I can just as easily add Vaal Ancestral Warchief and Vaal Cold Snap.. all 6 link. I expect every melee build to have 6 link Ancestral totems and probably something similar to Vaal DS.

*It's very easy to fit in multiple utility skills and supports. Stuff like Blind, Power Charge on Crit, Bonechill and Culling Strike are extremely easy to fit in.

*I expect every build to be using Enlight and/or Empower especially with Auras. Much easier to slot in Generosity as well.

*Any skills that are autonomous or instant suddenly becomes insanely strong. Expect every Lightning build to use 6 link Orb of Storm because why wouldn't you. Same for Ballistas and Totems. Instant skills like Vortex become very strong as you can activate them without losing much DPS time on your main skill.

*Every build will have a single target and a clear skill. I used Blade Flurry as an example here. GGG said that they will be having skills that are specifically good at single target and skills that are specifically strong as AOE.


GGG needs to balance the whole game around this because this will result in massive power creep. Usually builds have specific niches and strengths, with this builds will be able to cover their weaknesses. Even Frostblades which is not a defensive build can now freeze/chill with high effect bonus slowing them to a crawl thanks to cold spells linked with Bonechill. Not to mention its insane boost to single target damage by being able to pop multiple autonomous and Vaal skills.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
883
It's huge power creep but also very exciting in terms of opening up options. You can already do single target and multi-target setups by swapping out gems when you're about to visit a boss so this will nicely streamline the game greatly, especially for melee skills that depend on support gems to define their clearing or single target capability.

EDIT: Random idea I just had for using six socketed skill gems in 4.0 is to be able to use Fire Storm for single target with supports like Concentrated Effect and something like Fireball for regular clear, and maybe even have a third skill gem setup for bosses that move too much to use Fire Storm on.
 
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TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,785
Has anyone here played icicle mines? Wanted to get some opinions on it before I try it out. Trying to think of builds that can transition out of orb of storms easily. Going to use orb of storms to try and get into maps within 5 hours of the league start, and then transition into something that can map and kill bosses easily.
 

Merkunt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
401
Icicle miner deletes the endgame, really easy to build upon it if you're using cold to fire/elemental damage as extra chaos with Sabo's Explosives expert node.

Edit: Use chain for clearing, and added cold for bosses coupled with a flamethrower trap setup;

Edit2: You can also do it with pure cold, but the damage potential isn't as big as with fire conversion.
 
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Greenpaint

Member
Oct 30, 2017
580
Enlighten (as a meta skill, for auras)
Hatred - Herald of Ice - Precision - Arctic Armor
Herald of Ice and Arctic Armor don't have "aura tag", so I think they won't fit in this metagem? Unless there will be a generic "mana reserved" -metagem then I suspect skills like heralds and arctic armor need to take up one of the 9 slots.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,785
Just something to keep in mind with the atlas changes. Since you can no longer uncomplete maps there is a chance you can completely brick your atlas if you are going for certain strategies. So in this league it's critical you figure out what strategy you want to run before you start running maps. Also, if GGG changes nothing going into the league they will deserve the reddit hate threads coming their way. That's with the information that we know currently. There may be some system in place to help you not brick your atlas, but as far as I know they haven't said anything about it.
 

Dog of Bork

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,069
Texas
You can upgrade and remove the stones that upgrade your maps at will, so I don't see most people having issues. Given they've changed the way sextants work, there's less need to pick a map and run it exclusively.

I'm not all that worried tbh. Shaping the atlas was the least fun thing for me (though very profitable). Hopefully the new endgame is rewarding enough that people don't miss shaping their atlases.
 

Maledict

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,540
Just something to keep in mind with the atlas changes. Since you can no longer uncomplete maps there is a chance you can completely brick your atlas if you are going for certain strategies. So in this league it's critical you figure out what strategy you want to run before you start running maps. Also, if GGG changes nothing going into the league they will deserve the reddit hate threads coming their way. That's with the information that we know currently. There may be some system in place to help you not brick your atlas, but as far as I know they haven't said anything about it.
You cannot "brick" your atlas. It is impossible now, it will be impossible in the future. Bricking means to make completely unuseable - which can never happen. You're referring to specific atlas strategies used by a small number of high end players to guarantee what maps drop for them so they can farm the most profitable map endlessly rather than run a variety of maps.

And I hope GGG does totally remove that option. It's was a stupid, stupid system that absolutely goes against the entire point of the Atlas. Atlas Shaping was just a bad mechanic all round.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,999
Just something to keep in mind with the atlas changes. Since you can no longer uncomplete maps there is a chance you can completely brick your atlas if you are going for certain strategies. So in this league it's critical you figure out what strategy you want to run before you start running maps. Also, if GGG changes nothing going into the league they will deserve the reddit hate threads coming their way. That's with the information that we know currently. There may be some system in place to help you not brick your atlas, but as far as I know they haven't said anything about it.
I don't see how you can brick your Atlas in this new system. Maybe I am missing something but that's the whole point of it, that you can socket and unsocket as you please. Now granted I haven't delved too deeply into it yet but that's what it appeared to me.

Unless you mean strategy where you purposely don't complete maps so that you get higher chances of maps that you want within a region. I think by design they want to discourage this anyway. They want you to be farming region tiers. There will be strats around this (which region tier will be the best, people have already come up with that) as that's the intended design. Besides I am sure to get 4 sextants on a region you would have to full complete your Atlas anwyay. And they definitely want you to be farming red maps with red sextants so you would want as many of them on your map as possible.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,785
Atlas "strategies" were stupid anyway
Strongly disagree with this. Let me run the maps I want to run. Way too many layouts, and bosses I hate that I wish to avoid completely. In the next league GGG is going to set which of the maps will be the t16s I could run. Given their history on the t15s reds there might two maps I would actually run that are t16, and if they are in terrible quadrants then that's rip t16s for me.

I don't see how you can brick your Atlas in this new system. Maybe I am missing something but that's the whole point of it, that you can socket and unsocket as you please. Now granted I haven't delved too deeply into it yet but that's what it appeared to me.

Unless you mean strategy where you purposely don't complete maps so that you get higher chances of maps that you want within a region. I think by design they want to discourage this anyway. They want you to be farming region tiers. There will be strats around this (which region tier will be the best, people have already come up with that) as that's the intended design. Besides I am sure to get 4 sextants on a region you would have to full complete your Atlas anwyay. And they definitely want you to be farming red maps with red sextants so you would want as many of them on your map as possible.
Mostly this. Karv was mentioning some other stuff as well, but I need to go back and watch his videos. There are some other smaller details this effects as well. Lower tier map div card farming is one. Going to be significantly harder to do in the next league. If people are planning on running specific maps they have to be careful early on.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
5,999
I think if you are planning to run a single specific map then you are already doing it wrong and missing the point of the new Atlas. People are going to try but will just get frustrated. It's best to pick the region with the most maps that you enjoy running.

Div card farming will definitely be nerfed on lower tier maps but that's the point. People get way too much return farming a tier 5 map with a good div card souped up by 4 sextants. Now you need to run higher tier versions of the same maps to get the juiced up sextants, both in quality and quantity.

The new meta is going to be running the best region souped up with 4 watch towers and 4 sextants with a completed Atlas. Running lower tier map strats in theory would not compete with this and if they still do then GGG messed up somewhere (like certain white sextants being better than red sextants).


That said I do however want the ability to run entire region as tier 16. I hope there is a unique Watchtower that does this effect. I am assuming the Zana Elder mod will still remain where you can make any map higher tier if you pay the Chaos price but that's not enough.
 
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TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,785
The problem with the new atlas is that the levels of the maps are static. Not every map can be turned into t15-t16s, and I would bet good money that most of the t16s are going to be trash layouts because that's GGG's mo. It's less choice the way it's currently set up and not more. They have a history of putting the bad layouts with multi phase bosses as t15s. So let's take a look at the current grid.


Looking at Grimros spreadsheet I could easily see GGG making all the good layouts to sector 6 t14s, and then make something like Cells t16s. That's generally been their history. I've skipped 14-15s like 4 leagues in a row and only ran shaped layouts because their selection was so bad to me. This new system just represents significantly less flexibility to me and not more. Going to remain extremely skeptical of the changes.
 
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Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,999
They will make tier 16s the map with the hard bosses mechanically, not Cells (because it uses Brutus).

And yes this is less choice and flexibility by design. When people are given the choice they just run same best map over and over (Iceberg in Legion). This is to save players from themselves ie. monotonously doing the same map over and over. They tried to curb this before with Elder/Shaper influence, then Shaper strongholds and then Master missions but none of that worked. As long as the option remains to turn a map into a tier 16 by paying currency its fine because the top 1% who min max and accumulate a ton of wealth can still do juiced up maps that they want with investment.

Prices for the good maps is going to be more expensive this league.
 

yagal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,576
Has anyone here played icicle mines? Wanted to get some opinions on it before I try it out. Trying to think of builds that can transition out of orb of storms easily. Going to use orb of storms to try and get into maps within 5 hours of the league start, and then transition into something that can map and kill bosses easily.
I'm planning to use orb of storms in maps, not sure yet what will be the second skill, I just gonna try them all. I'm using Mathil's Inquisitor Shock Nova as a template.

Bless

Now I'm doing A5 Kitava in less than 3 hours with a Templar, need to work on my single target DPS setup and the layouts
 

Merkunt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
401
Use Lightning Spire traps for single target, it pretty much deletes everything in its wake.

I'd recommend using LST - Controlled Destruction - Trap&Mine Damage and Advanced Traps as the last one.
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,785
I'm planning to use orb of storms in maps, not sure yet what will be the second skill, I just gonna try them all. I'm using Mathil's Inquisitor Shock Nova as a template.

Bless

Now I'm doing A5 Kitava in less than 3 hours with a Templar, need to work on my single target DPS setup and the layouts
For single target use stormblast mine until you hit lvl 28 then use lightning spire trap. That's what all the racers use to level. Lightning spire trap is stupid good, and deletes bosses when used right. Check out Tie23 dominus kill in act 3 using lightning spire trap. He instantly deletes both phases.


For maps you can use orb of storms with a helmet that gives you links like

https://pathofexile.gamepedia.com/The_Tempest's_Binding

So that you effectively have 2 six link setups on a build. One for clear and one for single target. You could also shaper craft a helmet, but that's going to be way more expensive this upcoming league. I'm sure there will be some helmet crafts that give you six links. If you go the two six link route then storm brand has really good single target now, and synergizes with orb of storms/other lightning based skills.
 
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Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,999
Lightning Builds going to be nutty in PoE 2.

6 link Storm Brand
6 link Orb of Storm
6 link Lightnjng Spire Trap
6 link Wave of Conviction
6 link Vaal Storm Call
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,785
Lightning Builds going to be nutty in PoE 2.

6 link Storm Brand
6 link Orb of Storm
6 link Lightnjng Spire Trap
6 link Wave of Conviction
6 link Vaal Storm Call
Plus a new lightning ascendency, 3 six link defensive setups, and a six link aura setup with the classic 5% reduced mana reserve gem coming back.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,999
I doubt you would be able to reserve 6 auras nornally but on average players should be able to reserve more Auras than before due to these meta gems.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
883
I wonder if the atlas changes will cause a trend in keeping characters lower leveled with the recipe to farm act zones for divination cards, or is there something stopping that from being as good or better than just using an inefficient map drop pool?
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
883
Wow. I decided to talk to Helena to look at my hideout list and it turns out I unlocked the Celestial Hideout and didn't realize it.

It feels like a dream almost, I can hardly believe it. I am paranoid that it might actually be some kind of glitch and it might end up disappearing when 3.9 starts or something.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
5,999
I wonder if the atlas changes will cause a trend in keeping characters lower leveled with the recipe to farm act zones for divination cards, or is there something stopping that from being as good or better than just using an inefficient map drop pool?
Eventually you just out level the area and when your level is too high the item drops are much less. What people could do is have multiple characters running a zone but that's super tedious.

To farm Div cards people would just have to run them at the highest map tier possible with full red sextants and then buy the maps to chain run them.

These changes impact solo self found players the most though, it's fairly crippling for them when it comes to farming specific maps. But GGG has said they don't balance around SSF since the start so this type of thing is kinda expected.
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
883
Eventually you just out level the area and when your level is too high the item drops are much less. What people could do is have multiple characters running a zone but that's super tedious.
There's a recipe for an item called the Book of Regression that de-levels you so in theory you can combat the zone level problem this way with an alternative character. A big problem is that it requires a pool of scourings so I'm sure it isn't SSF viable, as well as needing to level a different character, but I also feel like I'm still missing something that breaks this strat.
 

Dahbomb

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Oct 25, 2017
5,999
That's insane. Really wonder how difficult they will be to attain, probably very like GG Shaper/Elder items. However, for something like this I would just Alt spam it and then fill in the rest with Multiod. Hopefully this is a Prefix and not a Suffix.

Side note but Raider gonna be top tier next league. For a few reasons:

*Evasion bonus buffs on Raider were very strong and it's easy to get 95% evasion + 75% attack dodge. The speed and damage buffs weren't bad either.

*Tailwind being accessible as a mod on an item bridges the gap between Deadeye and Raider hard. I would have to do the math on it though to really get a sense.

*They have promised bigger Raider changes. Raider is one of the very few classes which has no 2 node cluster and has the fewest nodes total at 12. It also has no unique mechanic. I expect these issues to be rectified which would make Raider potentially very strong.

*Bow league with potentially huge changes in that part of the tree. This is already going to make the Ranger class a very popular pick and people will be deciding mainly between Deadeye and Raider. Any non bow skill will be defaulted to playing Raider and even some bow skills.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
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Oct 25, 2017
5,999
The mod just makes clearing a bit better, whatever really.
The more important application here is that combined with the similar node on the tree (which you can Annoint) you can gain "Ancestral Call" on your attack skill without sacrificing a 6th damage link. This makes it really strong with something like Frostblades as you can focus solely on damage and have this stat plus its natural clearing mechanics carry through maps.

It's not nearly as strong as Tailwind on boots but it's still quite nice.
 

Absent Uncle

Member
Oct 25, 2017
681
Oslo
That's insane. Really wonder how difficult they will be to attain, probably very like GG Shaper/Elder items. However, for something like this I would just Alt spam it and then fill in the rest with Multiod. Hopefully this is a Prefix and not a Suffix.
Wouldn’t this be from the new exalted orbs?

*edit* actually reading up on it it looks like it’s the equivalent of new shaper/elder mods AND you can slam them with the new orbs
 

MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
883
I don't feel like the modifier will completely replace Ancestral Call (there is still a matter of actually obtaining it), but that's fine because 4.0 solves the problem of Strike skills already IMO.
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,999
Bow skill reworks out:


Explosive Arrow looking nice. They actually didn't massacre Tornado Shot, may still end up being top tier at high investment (projectile speed is very important now). Scourge Arrow got needed nerf and side buff to its identity.

Looks like they intend you to use Explosive Areow for clear and Burning Arrow for single but it seems better to just use Explosive Arrow for everything (with a gem swap).
 

TheFatOne

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,785
I've been messing around with my race filter for the last couple of days, and now have it finally working with custom sounds. Was pretty easy to do. Now when currency drops, or the right linked sockets drop it tells me exactly what it is.

Was listening to some Bernie Sanders stump speeches while working on my filters, and I am definitely going to make a custom Sanders filter at some point. Currently when annuls drop it's Sanders saying "We live in the wealthiest country in the history of the world". He just has so many quotable lines that apply to currency drops lol.
 

yagal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,576
I've been messing around with my race filter for the last couple of days, and now have it finally working with custom sounds. Was pretty easy to do. Now when currency drops, or the right linked sockets drop it tells me exactly what it is.

Was listening to some Bernie Sanders stump speeches while working on my filters, and I am definitely going to make a custom Sanders filter at some point. Currently when annuls drop it's Sanders saying "We live in the wealthiest country in the history of the world". He just has so many quotable lines that apply to currency drops lol.
lol


Exalt drops need to be about the 1%

I did a 4h50 to BA with a Templar, Cruel Labyrinth unlocked and I also did all the side quest with a skill point reward. I can definitely do better, need to work on my resist, smoke mine, inventory management and I'm currently killing too many mobs

Fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu I work the 14th from 8 am to 8 pm
 

Dahbomb

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,999
This is one of my anticipated leagues in a while that appeals to my playstyle and preferences (Legion was big for me too). Ranged rework/buffs, Ballistas, Raider Ascendancy buffs, end mapping rework and a much needed boss challenge league are all things I very much wanted.

Sadly I won't be able to play it because I will be out of country and in that country PoE servers are unplayable.
 

yagal

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,576
This is one of my anticipated leagues in a while that appeals to my playstyle and preferences (Legion was big for me too). Ranged rework/buffs, Ballistas, Raider Ascendancy buffs, end mapping rework and a much needed boss challenge league are all things I very much wanted.

Sadly I won't be able to play it because I will be out of country and in that country PoE servers are unplayable.


I hope you will be having a good time under the sun
 
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MoonlitBow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
883
I was thinking that, unless the new +1 target modifier for Strike attacks works differently from Ancestral Call, it'll actually have some real value for setups where you swap in single target damage gems at the expense of clearing utility because it effectively increases your weapon range and you don't have to stand next to the boss to attack it.
 

Anoregon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,055
I've never played a bow build, so I'm curious as to what the actual class options are? Is everyone going to be rangers or do some of the ascendancies from other classes work well with bow builds? Champion maybe?
 

Merkunt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
401
I've never played a bow build, so I'm curious as to what the actual class options are? Is everyone going to be rangers or do some of the ascendancies from other classes work well with bow builds? Champion maybe?
Champion* for Impale RoA, Gladiator for Bleed RoA/Puncture, Chieftain/Zerker/Ascendant/Golemancer for Ele Hit, Trickster/occultist for CA/TR are just some examples I can think off the top of my head.